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Yes really.DAD is silly but entertaining, Skyfall thinks its intelligent and deep but is just silly.
I have faith in him to an extent, but this is the man who brought back the GF DB5. I have issues with him.
Difficult but not impossible to explain.
It's not about explanation for me. It's about reason.
Let me rephrase. There are major points of the film that just turn me off about Skyfall. Like I said, when I first saw it I was blown away, and I think it's a great film... just compared to Casino Royale, not quite there. But as a Bond fan, I can't help but love it because it's a Bond film, and because Daniel Craig is my favorite Bond actor and he does a terrific job. My relationship with Skyfall is complicated, what can I say.
I don't think people are actively seeking plots that are lacking, but I think SF does enough to keep the film ticking along at a decent pace, with enough smoke and mirrors that you don't start to question the motives and actions of the characters too heavily. I think this is why this topic has arisen. Because some fans, after multiple viewings, are starting to question whether this is actually a brilliant story or just a mediocre, but lovely looking one that is well executed? As I said in my previous post, I've had problems with SF from day one, so I'm not someone who has retrospectively downgraded it. I have some small issues with it, some large, but for the sake of simplicity the 'hacking/computer magic' to use a catch-all term, and 'The omniscient Silva' are my two biggest problems. They took me out of the movie on my first viewing at the premiere, a place in which I could be forgiven for wearing rose-tinted glasses. It left me scratching my head and that's a shame, because a lot of it is brilliantly done.
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Thanks @RC7 for your time and effort at commenting on my rather large amount of arguments and explanations. I really appreciate that. I will come back to you on this during the weekend OK?
By the way, I think we will never agree on how we see "Skyfall". And that isn't the aim off course. To be continued ok? :)
I just found your comment rather incongruous. It struck at first that Skyfall wasn't your cup of tea, then you claimed it's in your top five.
For me, and I know this is true for other members, too, for a film in my top 5, even top 10, it's got to be bloody well near to perfection. The James Bond series sets standards high.
I have the greatest respect for you @MayDayDiVicenzo. But wasn't it you who consistently ranked "AVTAK" in your TOP 5 of best Bond films ;-)?
On a brief side note I would love to see Martin Campbell return when a new actor steps into the role. Imagine a Campbell trilogy, each featuring a new actor, that would be incredible!! \:D/
You've made some great points, but I really don't watch SF for either its themes (which really resonate with some here) or its plot (which some here have real problems with) actually.
I watch it because it's absolutely stunning to look at, and I really enjoy the performances from everyone concerned. It has real style, panache and class and I appreciate that in a Bond film.
So there is a 3rd reason to enjoy it!
Yes, I would really like Campbell to return, but I think he's said that he is done with Bond.
Yes, indeed. It has since slipped out of the top five but remains in the top ten. I have consistently defended this particular release since my debut on this forum.
But that's beside my point. My point was how can someone dislike so many elements of a film to the extent that there isn't much else to like in the film, yet rank it in the top five? That would have to mean that the films preceding the top 5 must be pretty dire.
Personally, I love all 23 films, and so I find it very difficult to rank them. For me, there are only two films that are set in stone- DAD rock bottom and OHMSS at the top.
Good call! Although, for me, I think there are Bond films I like less than DAD... As blasphemous as that is... DAD I can find entertainment value in whereas there are one or two in the franchise that make me nod off a bit.
OHMSS, though, absolutely.
Funny you should say that. I rewatched DAD recently and while it remains one of the worst in the series, it almost has that 'it's so bad it's good' thing going on. It's such a car crash of a movie, you're sort gripped to seeing what Tamahori does next to trash the Bond legacy.
But I actually think TWINE is possibly even worse. It's not only abysmal, it's really boring as well, and has way too much M in it (same as SF). So yes, I agree, I think DAD is bad, but TWINE is worse. GE also sits pretty low in my rankings, but those two reach new depths of awfulness.
TND is the 'best' of the Brosnan era movies IMO. After seeing it I actually thought the films were going to start improving. I was soon to be disappointed!
I pretty much agree everywhere with this post, except I really, really like Goldeneye. There could be some bias as it's my first Bond film, but I really do enjoy it. For me, Brosnan's tenure goes GE, TND, DAD, TWINE. But what can I say, I love me some Gustav Graves :P
GE is in my top 10 for sure.
Funny. TLD was my first cinema Bond, and I loved it. I had to wait 8 years for GE to see another in the cinema and it didn't live up to my expectations at all. As a big Dalton fan, the change to Brosnan was obviously difficult for me to take. I felt like Brosnan was an inferior Roger Moore knock-off, but without the highly entertaining scripts and stories of the Moore era. Any way, while I don't like GE, I think TWINE and DAD are probably on another level of awful. TND is the only redeeming movie in the Brosnan era - I rank it 4th from bottom, but significantly above the other Brosnan films.
I'm with you on ranking @NickTwentyTwo.
GE is easily top 10 for me (it's the charismatic crazy performances from the supporting cast I love along with the class that oozes out of the film- similar to SF). TND is 2nd but some way down the list (I find it too TSWLM/YOLT/MR in style but not as good - although the basic premise/idea of the media baron is interesting). DAD is cartoon-like entertaining (but I don't see it as a Bond film but rather more of an entertaining parody). For me, TWINE cannot find a whole deep enough to be flushed down. A disgrace to the legacy imho.
For me DAD and TND are the bottom of the barrel for bond movies. While boring and dull, TWINE doesn't offend me the same way when I watch it so it is much higher. GE was my favorite as a kid so it ranks very highly, probably top 8.
Steve Jobs Elliott Carver was an inspired villain, I thought, too. The media baron starting WWIII for exclusive news coverage was a fantastic take on the megalomania of Bond villany.
I can't remember if I read it here or was talking about it with a friend, but it would have been a much more fitting end to TND if, instead of being killed, Carver was captured and defamed, and had to see his name and reputation destroyed in his very own newspapers... would have driven him mad. Still though, getting eaten by his drill was pretty dramatic (and traumatic to my young mind on my first viewings!)
It's an element of movies that turned me into a movie geek in the first place.
100% agree. And this a reason why (as I've said before) I prefer Skyfall to a film like TWINE. While I'm not a fan of either of them, SF is so much more ambitious. It's an interesting film to discuss, even if I don't like it as a Bond movie!
Its soundtrack most certainly is.... ;)
True but DAD is at least fun to watch and is not meant to be taken seriously.
Said it before but i will say it again, Skyfall thinks its a realistic, thought provoking spy film, but is so badly written and unrealistic that it comes off as silly and pretentious.
I think that sums it up quite well in terms of SF.
Opinions. Solely opinions. And it's quite a badly-argumented opinion if I may say so :-). If you think DAD is more fun to watch than SF I'm the first one to say: With so many films in one franchise (23) it's only logical that Bond-fans are discussing more heavily between each other than, let's say, Mission: Impossible-fans.
I don't think SF thinks it's anything else but a Bond film, the reception to this film just gets the haters so lathered up they claim everyone who likes it proclaims it's a masterpiece, its far from that but it's certainly no where as bad as it's detractors are inferring in this thread.
=D>
I see it the other way around. Most of the so-called 'haters' never said it was the worst Bond film ever. We were mainly pointing out that it wasn't the masterpiece that so many were claiming on 2012. I think what's happened since is that everyone has calmed down, rewatched SF a few times, and come to a more balanced view. I still don't think it's a very good Bond movie, but I'm more than happy to admit it's a much 'better made' film than DAD.
I don't particularly have any desire to rewatch either of them though.
My next watch will be either DN or QOS.