Is Skyfall losing its gloss and appeal ?

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  • Posts: 7,653
    TripAces wrote: »
    I guess people prefer an invisible car? ;)

    which would be an impractical vehicle to participate in traffic.

    But the DB5 was a strange addition to SF but it was not the only odd aspect to a very unbalanced movie imho.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    SaintMark wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    I guess people prefer an invisible car? ;)

    which would be an impractical vehicle to participate in traffic.
    Not at all. I always assume most can't see me anyway, and the ones that can are trying to hit me.
    :))
  • Posts: 5,745
    Murdock wrote: »
    Again with the DB5. It happened. Dimitrios either already had it stocked with that stuff years in advance. (He was an arms smuggler so it's not too out of the realm of possibility.) Or Bond had it modded between QoS and Skyfall (considering SF is six years later.) Or Q Branch modded it. As for the swapped steering column, who cares? Blame the continuity director. Fill in the blanks yourself. Those are three sound theories. It's a car in a movie. Move on... 8-|

    st_move_along.jpg

    It's a car in 5 almost consecutive movies.
  • Posts: 1,068
    chrisisall wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    I guess people prefer an invisible car? ;)

    which would be an impractical vehicle to participate in traffic.
    Not at all. I always assume most can't see me anyway, and the ones that can are trying to hit me.
    :))

    :D You're not wrong there @chrisisall
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2015 Posts: 15,718
    I did have a problem with the DB5 in GE. Xenia's Ferrari should have travelled 2000kms before Brosnan's car manages to reach the first bend as seen in the chase.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    My sense is that some Bond fans went into the theater as fault finders, wanting to hate SF. If they didn't already have a lingering problem with Craig, they also had a problem with Mendes as director (not Indie enough), Bardem as the villain (sellout!), and/or Newman as composer (American!). Many of the criticisms I read are quite nonsensical: there isn't a perfect Bond film out there. They're all unrealistic, misogynistic, hyperbolic, and cliched.
  • edited April 2015 Posts: 7,653
    TripAces wrote: »
    My sense is that some Bond fans went into the theater as fault finders, wanting to hate SF. If they didn't already have a lingering problem with Craig, they also had a problem with Mendes as director (not Indie enough), Bardem as the villain (sellout!), and/or Newman as composer (American!). Many of the criticisms I read are quite nonsensical: there isn't a perfect Bond film out there. They're all unrealistic, misogynistic, hyperbolic, and cliched.

    And some just walked out disappointing, I really want to see Craig in a decent flic after CR but that has yet to happen for me.

    I get tired from people that cannot accept a different opinion and will do their best to find a fault at any criticism because it does not fit in their little mind. You may like it as much as you want so can I dislike it for different reasons.
  • edited April 2015 Posts: 4,622
    As for the DB5 this caused a great debate before on the AJB forum that someone went to the extraordinary lengths of calling Aston Martin and speaking to a lead engineer. They questions was asked;

    As the vehicle in Casino Royale was a left hand drive, and the one in Skyfall was a right hand drive, would it have been possible to switch the drivers side?

    Aston Martin's engineer responded advising that due to the under the hood layout it would be possible however the cost of doing so would be atleast £150,000 to £200,000. It was concluded that it was unlike the SF DB5 was the same one Bond won in CR.
    Thank you!!!
    Aston Martin has settled the discussion as to whether the SF car and the CR car could be the same car. The answer is a resounding NOOOOOO!
    I think this was always obvious anyway, as who in their right mind, would change over the steering column.
    Aston Martin says yes, it could have been done, but given the exhorbitant cost, there would be no sane rational reason for doing such a thing, therefore not the same car.
    Bond and Q Branch are not insane.
    Thus, Mendes leaves it to our imagination to figure how Bond came to have such a car.
    There really are plenty of scenarios. Use your imagination.
    At the very least, they all involve Q Branch having hung on to the kitted-out 1964 car, for their own archival reasons. Perfectly understandable.
    Even though the series has been re-booted, and James Bond has no 00 history prior to CR, the 00 section presumably did exist circa 1964, and agents of the day used the DB5 as an operational vehicle
    Q Branch has managed to hang on to a few.
    Contemporary Bond has taken a liking to the car. Q Branch has loaned him one, which Bond kept stored in a garage in London.
    He dug it out when he needed it for the drive to Skyfall Manor.

    There is precedent for Craig Bond's liking of the vintage spy car, in the Broz era.
    Via the magic of cinema, movie Bond is a timeless character, who is of permanent indeterminate operational 00-agent age.
    GE Bond ( who has continuity with DN Bond, via cinematic license, which allows the timeline to be fudged) sports around in a vintage 64 DB5, although despite the continuity, we are not being asked to believe this 1995 Bond, has operational history with this car, as the car is clearly 31 years old. There is no denying it's model year.
    Rather, the car is presented as Bond's personal car, but we the audience do know of its operational significance vis-a-vis the Bond of yore.
    It's a cinema nudge nudge moment. So for 3 movies, we get Broz tooling around in his personal vintage car.
    But, even though 1995 Bond couldn't realistically have any operational history with the car, he would no doubt be aware of the operational history that the car had with the 00 section, which was probably part of car's appeal to him in the first place.
    Same thing for Craig Bond, and any Bond going forward.
    The car does have 00 Section, operational history circa 1964.
    As we know from the early films, the car was operational in the 00 section in 64 and 65, but by 1969 and forward, the 00 section was understandably using new models.

    Craig Bond, as we saw in 2006, is using the latest Aston, but also stumbled across the 64 car, albeit a NA model, with left side steering. We don't know what became of that car, but it established Craig-Bond's relationship with the vehicle.

    And in SP, we do know the car returns yet again. Craig Bond likes this car!!!
    Bond again pilots a new Aston in SP, but still has a thing for this old vintage model.

    I don't think its a bad thing. It can all be made to fit.

    ===Now mind you, I am not getting into the why of it all. ie why Mendes brought back the tricked out version circa 1964. That was a new wrinkle, introduced by Mendes.

    The thematic, nostalgic reasons etc have been kicked around very well in this thread.
    I am just attempting to address, the actual movie logic at play here, and I think it works just fine, and I actually kind of like it.

    That said, my initial objection to the SF scenario was more along the line of how and why the car was used.
    It seemd to me the movie was making a token, hamfisted nod to nostalgia
    and used the DB5 interlude as a compartmentalized scene, to isolate the pesky James Bond Theme from the broader picture. It seemed maybe, that someone here was saying, we'll shutup those screaming for the Bond theme by associating it with the old car, and thus the theme doesn't contaminate our, oh so superior modern approach to Bond filmmaking.
    That's a cynical POV, but at the time I wasn't sure, and I'm still not, but I no longer care.
    There is no point in living in the past. But at the time, if that was a prevailing attitude of Bond filmmaking, I was happy to call foul.
    However, SP is in full production. SF is done and part of the canon.
    The only attitudes I care about now, are what's on display in SP, and from what I know, I do like what's going on.
    Any perceived sins of the past, real or imagined on my part,IMO, have been addressed.
    I do like what Mendes and Craig are doing in SP, to merge both familiar and loved Bond elements, with their own contemporay take on the iconic character's adventures.
    :)
  • Posts: 1,548
    Given me Skyfall any day of the week ahead of any Brosnan flick and most of Moore's.
  • edited April 2015 Posts: 1,068
    I do think what polarises the SF for/against camps was the hype around the time SF was released with the whole "best ever mantra" being overused/abused setting it up for people to then go especially out of their way to take a pop at it. I didn't have any expectations and wanted to enjoy the film and for the first few acts found the ride enjoyable but in the end it was anything but for me personally and I'm not the world's biggest pessimist.

    I came out of SF really down and disappointed with Bond and the supporting character's actions in the last act with an immense feeling of bewilderment and even anger at them for being so totally amateur verging on the inept and farcical. I found I was raking through what I'd just watched trying to offset the positives against the big flaws I felt it showed. There has to be some substance to the gloss/style.

    Yes, I've read it all before repeatedly that this is just an adventure and a bit of escapism for a few hours etc etc and whilst it IS all larger than life I'm afraid for any film to be truly outstanding, as many here genuinely do feel SF is, for me it still comes down to how well the main protagonists behave even allowing for artistic license and how the plot pans out. This was all boyscout stuff and totally irrational. Certainly not how I would expect the best 'secret' agent in the world and the cream of the British Secret Service to behave. This was crossing my mind all the time as I continued watching and at the end with the new M I felt never mind the next assignment, they should all just be let go!

    I don't need to see Bond saving the whole world from armageddon single handedly as Rog did in TSWLM or MR and PB did to a degree in GE and DAD but actually do want to see him operating with invention on his guile and wits not just reflexes and muscle. I really like DC but the SF Bond is all brawn not brain and it just portrayed him as out of his depth. This SF Bond isn't the guy you could see bringing a large sinister worldwide operation like SPECTRE down unless he somehow bumps into Blofeld by accident and head butts him off the veranda.

    I really don't care about the pro's and cons and justification for the tricked out DB5, quite liked the new take on Q and really liked Mallory being handy and still in touch with working in the field but Bon's boss. I do have a really big issue with where they think post SF, Bond is at in how he thinks and behaves and again I repeat this is not just another whine about plot holes. I am really buzzing for SP and want some of the feeling I had for DC's portrayal of Bond that I had in the main throughout CR (without the mushy heart bleeding stuff with Vesper at the end) and for that matter in QOS.

    For me it lost it's gloss and appeal half way through my first showing of it - there's nothing sudden about it and in fact on numerous revisits I'm trying to like it more not less.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Are we still going on about the bloody Aston Martin? Seriously some of you need to get a life!

    By the way still love Skyfall my passion for it has not diminished coming back to this thread.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    andmcit wrote: »
    This SF Bond isn't the guy you could see bringing a large sinister worldwide operation like SPECTRE down unless he somehow bumps into Blofeld by accident and head butts him off the veranda.
    Oh my, biggest LOL of the day! =))
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    SaintMark wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    My sense is that some Bond fans went into the theater as fault finders, wanting to hate SF. If they didn't already have a lingering problem with Craig, they also had a problem with Mendes as director (not Indie enough), Bardem as the villain (sellout!), and/or Newman as composer (American!). Many of the criticisms I read are quite nonsensical: there isn't a perfect Bond film out there. They're all unrealistic, misogynistic, hyperbolic, and cliched.

    And some just walked out disappointing, I really want to see Craig in a decent flic after CR but that has yet to happen for me.

    I get tired from people that cannot accept a different opinion and will do their best to find a fault at any criticism because it does not fit in their little mind. You may like it as much as you want so can I dislike it for different reasons.

    I didn't name names. And difference of opinion is fine... but it does need to be pointed out that no Bond film would stand up to the criteria upon which some criticize SF.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    TripAces wrote: »
    it does need to be pointed out that no Bond film would stand up to the criteria upon which some criticize SF.
    I humbly point out that this statement is in error. In fact, many would. But also, many would not. If you like a movie, that's great, but please don't pretend that your favourites make sense. I love YOLT & TND, and they're both as stupid as SF IMO.
    :))
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    It's a Bond movie. No Bond movie has remotely been realistic or grounded in reality. Even Nolan's Batman trilogy came up with some sillier idea's than the DB5. *cough* Leg healing leg brace! *cough*

    Uhura said it best. This isn't reality. This is fantasy.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Murdock wrote: »
    Uhura said it best. This isn't reality. This is fantasy.
    Quite.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    chrisisall wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    it does need to be pointed out that no Bond film would stand up to the criteria upon which some criticize SF.
    I humbly point out that this statement is in error. In fact, many would. But also, many would not. If you like a movie, that's great, but please don't pretend that your favourites make sense. I love YOLT & TND, and they're both as stupid as SF IMO.
    :))

    Point is, as you are saying, it makes no sense to harp on SF's lack of realism in a film franchise that truly lacks it. I can understand criticisms regarding blandness, lack of action, lack of suspense, and maybe a score that lacks umph. But much of the criticism on these boards seems forced.
  • edited April 2015 Posts: 4,622
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Are we still going on about the bloody Aston Martin? Seriously some of you need to get a life!By the way still love Skyfall my passion for it has not diminished coming back to this thread.
    Seriously, you can be a real whiner, but anyway thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the discussion, other than the usual petulance over anything less than glowing endorsement of your favourite movie, and again for being too lazy to actually grasp what people are actually saying.
    keep up the good work! 3:-O

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Murdock wrote: »
    It's a Bond movie. No Bond movie has remotely been realistic or grounded in reality. Even Nolan's Batman trilogy came up with some sillier idea's than the DB5. *cough* Leg healing leg brace! *cough*

    Uhura said it best. This isn't reality. This is fantasy.

    The discussion for me isn't really about reality or fantasy as I wouldn't say the DB5 is silly, I would suggest lazy and slightly ignorant.

    As has been pointed out several times on this thread, the car featured in two films in the first thirty years, the second incredibly briefly and that was that. They moved on. They dabbled with vehicles, sometimes successfully, sometimes unsuccessfully, but they didn't bother looking back.

    Then we get to the nineties, when this creeping need for nostalgia in popular culture starts to rear it's ugly head and it's back. Now, what I don't understand is that quite a number of fans decry this so called 'box-ticking' era, yet with DC, 'It's fine now. It's symbolic, yadda, yadda'.

    In CR I was disappointed they'd resurrected it yet again, it seemed a tired idea, but then on seeing the film, it's neatly reworked to be Demetrios' car and features sparingly. I can handle it. Then QoS makes no reference, it's probably back in Bond's garage in Chelsea. Fine. Then we get to SF and all of a sudden, not only is it back, but it's front and centre in the promotion of the film, there's literature and merchandising galore that carries the image and it's at the premiere as the focal point of the red carpet. So in essence criticism of SF is a bi-product for me. It's the wider intentions of the director and producers that irks me.

    To rub salt in the wounds we have
    to see it yet again in SP

    I think @Bondjames probably offers the best insight into how Mendes will retcon (I think there will be a lot of retconning in SP) the idea when he says that the SF DB5 is an old MI6 model, that perhaps Bond is really attached to (The DB10 being the latest) All well and good, but totally ignorant of the CR reinvention and reverting to type. It'll be rather cliched if that's how it does pan out.

    When all said and done I hope they just kill it it. 'Kill it in the face!'.

  • Mark_HazzardMark_Hazzard Classified
    Posts: 127
    Regarding my previous comments on the DB5 issue: I just wanted to point out some of the issues I have with SF, trying to answer the OP's question. However, @andmcit did a fantastic job at describing how I feel about the movie, and probably others as well:
    For me it lost it's gloss and appeal half way through my first showing of it - there's nothing sudden about it and in fact on numerous revisits I'm trying to like it more not less.

    This is exactly how I feel about it as well. Unfortunately every time I've watched, it has kept disappointing me. And that's quite the let-down for a Bond movie advertised as "The best Bond ever" or as DC stated "Bond with a capital B".
  • edited April 2015 Posts: 2,015
    TripAces wrote: »
    I guess people prefer an invisible car? ;)

    Bond chooses the DB5 in Skyfall because this is an invisible car... It's supposed to be from a time before all the trackers and so on, which means it's also not a recent Q Branch modification. It's literally the car from GF IMO. This is meta, about the "old times" hammered once again.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    timmer wrote: »
    [quotu e="Shardlake;445519"]Are we still going on about the bloody Aston Martin? Seriously some of you need to get a life!By the way still love Skyfall my passion for it has not diminished coming back to this thread.
    Seriously, you can be a real whiner, but anyway thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the discussion, other than the usual petulance over anything less than glowing endorsement of your favourite movie, and again for being too lazy to actually grasp what people are actually saying.
    keep up the good work! 3:-O

    [/quote]

    Bog off @timer, my favourite film is actually OHMSS.

    The same subject over and over again. I think this has been analysed more than any other entry in the series and it's getting tiring, you don't like it move on.

    You are o
    timmer wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Are we still going on about the bloody Aston Martin? Seriously some of you need to get a life!By the way still love Skyfall my passion for it has not diminished coming back to this thread.
    Seriously, you can be a real whiner, but anyway thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the discussion, other than the usual petulance over anything less than glowing endorsement of your favourite movie, and again for being too lazy to actually grasp what people are actually saying.
    keep up the good work! 3:-O

    You are such a nice chap and my favourite film is OHMSS.

    I made a general comment, this DB5 argument is as stale as last weeks loaf of bread. I would surmise those who actually dislike this film spend more time spewing negativity then actually saying something positive about another aspect of the series.

    I'm sure it gives you great comfort to talk to people like you do but then the internet offers anonymity, you don't have to talk to my face you can be as insulting as you like.


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    You two need to meet in a cage match.
  • Hm.. Bond in a cage fight ? :)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Hm.. Bond in a cage fight ? :)
    They'd bond... in a way.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Handbags at dawn.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Scaramanga style pistols at dawn.
  • edited April 2015 Posts: 4,622
    RC7 wrote: »
    Handbags at dawn.
    Thats about the size of it. Pathetic.
    Anyway, about the DB5.............(with mod wannbe shardy's permssion of course)...........a lovely vehicle......hope its patched up nice and new for Spectre.....left steering...right steering....hmm....

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Ok, cut out the name calling and end the bickering. We are watching this thread closely now.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    timmer wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Handbags at dawn.
    Thats about the size of it. Pathetic.
    Anyway, about the DB5.............(with mod wannbe shardy's permssion of course)...........a lovely vehicle......hope its patched up nice and new for Spectre.....left steering...right steering....hmm....

    I'd like to see it at his apartment.
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