Is Skyfall losing its gloss and appeal ?

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  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    chrisisall wrote:
    Allow me to hyperanalyze:
    SF's Q being played by a gay chap was clearly making fun of Desmond's Q, who never got laid in a single movie.
    ;)

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801

    Nothing to see here, move along. Move along.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited March 2014 Posts: 28,694
    Or maybe you're looking too much into a fun little quip meant to make the fans grin. Yeah, let's go with that...
    Well, there's only a few seconds between the LTK gadget reference (deemed as "part of the new Bond") and the GE gadget reference (deemed as "part of the old Bond"), and you really think this is reading too much in it ? Gee, where's the depth of the script of SF then if even those who like it think what happens in it is semi-random and should not be analyzed ? :)

    I find a great deal to be analyzed in this film, as I have done in numerous threads and little essays on this forum, but I sincerely doubt Mendes and Logan took a break from discussing the symbolism of the bulldog statue, the Tennyson piece and paintings of damaged warships to debate about where a stupid pen quip would fit in. In the grand scheme of things inside that very thematic/symbolic film, the exploding pen line doesn't even make the list, and isn't symbolic of anything to my eyes. Again, you are looking way too much into this. It's just like the people who looked heavily into Bond's "first time" line with Silva, when all it happened to be was a game of one-upsmanship between the two men. I mean, what's next? Is someone going to argue that the color of Bond's ties reflect his emotions and worries present in each scene?
    But would you at least agree that LTK is then deemed part of the "back to basics" that is SF with this strong gadget reference (and GF as well with the radio, one could say), while GE is not, with the quip to dismiss its gadget ? None of the gadgets in this sequence, whether shown or talked about, are original, they all allude to past movies. How can one think here that the choices are random and not meaningful ?

    About slating references being impossible, look at the beginning of FYEO for instance.

    I don't think the film dismissed that gadget, though. Q said MI6 "don't really go in for that anymore", which comments more on how times have changed and technologies have advanced rather than outright claiming "that pen thing sucked, we trashed it for something better." It's common sense that upgrading/escalation is something that will often occur in the realm of the spy world when it comes to gadget technologies. I mean, you're hardly going to wage a war nowadays with bayonets and cannons when we've got the capabilities for long-range drone attacks and bomb drops from fighter planes, right?

    I don't really see how the gun Bond is using is going back to basics, either. The PPK is a gun that Bond has been using for a large part of his cinematic life, and has used it heavily in the Craig era alone. If anything, the finger print technology in the gun connects it more to the newer technological age that we find ourselves in instead of the Cold War era of the yesteryear which would be classified by the spy world of today as "the old days."
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    The popularity barometer for the Bond films sometimes goes through these three stages:

    1) The hype. It's new, it kicks in with a blast, it generates tremendous enthusiasm, it's called "the best Bond ever made".
    2) The next morning, the hangover. Previous Bond films weren't necessarily of lesser quality. The flaws begin to show. The imperfections result in much less positive reactions. Popularity takes a dip.
    3) The new Bond is now no longer new. It's part of the family now. Positives and negatives are compared against each other and the final conclusion is drawn. After the hangover, renewed appreciation blossoms. Maybe not the best Bond ever made but a good one nonetheless.

    I think SF is currently in stage 2. Hype tends to produce overexposure. Adele could be heard everywhere, singing Skyfall. The DVD and BR is for sale everywhere. People may temporarily suffer from SF fatigue. But I doubt that's permanent. I think the film will always be a very popular Bond film.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DarthDimi wrote:
    The popularity barometer for the Bond films sometimes goes through these three stages:

    1) The hype. It's new, it kicks in with a blast, it generates tremendous enthusiasm, it's called "the best Bond ever made".
    2) The next morning, the hangover. Previous Bond films weren't necessarily of lesser quality. The flaws begin to show. The imperfections result in much less positive reactions. Popularity takes a dip.
    3) The new Bond is now no longer new. It's part of the family now. Positives and negatives are compared against each other and the final conclusion is drawn. After the hangover, renewed appreciation blossoms. Maybe not the best Bond ever made but a good one nonetheless.

    I think SF is currently in stage 2. Hype tends to produce overexposure. Adele could be heard everywhere, singing Skyfall. The DVD and BR is for sale everywhere. People may temporarily suffer from SF fatigue. But I doubt that's permanent. I think the film will always be a very popular Bond film.

    Not to mention that we were caught up in the 50th anniversary celebrations of that year.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 7,653
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I think the film will always be a very popular Bond film.

    Time will tell if the recent installments will be as well remembered as the older ones.

    Anybody who already knows this answer, please give me the numbers of a the winning lotteryticket I can use the money.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Skyfall is like a nice Medium well steak. It's good in all the right ways. A bit of fat here and there, but all in all it's still really good. Not perfect. But still delicious.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Murdock, I agree: SF isn't perfect, but it's damn good. I'd still rank it as my third favorite in the Craig line, though, which usually sets me up for a firing squad with those who hate QoS.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Murdock, I agree: SF isn't perfect, but it's damn good. I'd still rank it as my third favorite in the Craig line, though, which usually sets me up for a firing squad with those who hate QoS.

    That is your taste, which I am fine with, each to his/her own. And I have a strong dislike for QoB.....

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Here's my rank of the Craig movies.

    1. Casino Royale: Excellent 4 course meal with dessert.
    2. Skyfall: Medium Well Steak.
    3. QoS: A bag of cheese and sour cream potato chips.

    Okay enough with the food references. I'm hungry. :))
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @SaintMark, each to his/her own, absolutely. Wouldn't be fun if we all agreed on everything.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Chang wrote:
    Skyfall has it's faults but the quality is still way above any Brosnan Bond.

    What isn t ? :-\"

  • I find a great deal to be analyzed in this film, as I have done in numerous threads and little essays on this forum, but I sincerely doubt Mendes and Logan took a break from discussing the symbolism of the bulldog statue, the Tennyson piece and paintings of damaged warships to debate about where a stupid pen quip would fit in.

    What ?! Do you think the dialog of a movie is here as a second thought, as something in the back seat of some images ? Who's over analyzing here ? You think there's a lot to analyze in the choices made in the images, but IMO on the contrary that's because there's room for over-analysis in the images.

    You seem to think we can write an essay about the color of the clothes of Bond when he's on the roof, but that we should consider the exploding pen line as just a stupid quip that is meaningless.

    But when words are spoken, when you cannot wonder about what's been "said" because actual words are used instead of imagery, when the evidence is here for all to hear, IMO on the contrary do not ignore it because it's too "trivial"... Far more work is spent on the words than you seem to think. They're weighted for months, they're edited and modified by writers and script editors. It's hard to write essays about this because every one could hear the words and it's so straightforwad. Then you can't go into some deep analysis of subtle subtexts, but in the case IMO being clever becomes dangerously close to being pompous.

    Do you think they decided the day before to make a little joke about the pen really ?



  • Posts: 7,653
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @SaintMark, each to his/her own, absolutely. Wouldn't be fun if we all agreed on everything.

    boring as............ counting sheep.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Murdock wrote:
    Here's my rank of the Craig movies.

    1. Casino Royale: Excellent 4 course meal with dessert.
    2. Skyfall: Medium Well Steak.
    3. QoS: A bag of cheese and sour cream potato chips.

    Okay enough with the food references. I'm hungry. :))

    1. QOS: Pizza & beer.
    2. CR: Full course swordfish meal with all the trimmings.
    3. SF: Popcorn (with REAL butter) & extra candy & soda.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694

    I find a great deal to be analyzed in this film, as I have done in numerous threads and little essays on this forum, but I sincerely doubt Mendes and Logan took a break from discussing the symbolism of the bulldog statue, the Tennyson piece and paintings of damaged warships to debate about where a stupid pen quip would fit in.

    What ?! Do you think the dialog of a movie is here as a second thought, as something in the back seat of some images ? Who's over analyzing here ? You think there's a lot to analyze in the choices made in the images, but IMO on the contrary that's because there's room for over-analysis in the images.

    You seem to think we can write an essay about the color of the clothes of Bond when he's on the roof, but that we should consider the exploding pen line as just a stupid quip that is meaningless.

    But when words are spoken, when you cannot wonder about what's been "said" because actual words are used instead of imagery, when the evidence is here for all to hear, IMO on the contrary do not ignore it because it's too "trivial"... Far more work is spent on the words than you seem to think. They're weighted for months, they're edited and modified by writers and script editors. It's hard to write essays about this because every one could hear the words and it's so straightforwad. Then you can't go into some deep analysis of subtle subtexts, but in the case IMO being clever becomes dangerously close to being pompous.

    Do you think they decided the day before to make a little joke about the pen really ?



    You are misunderstanding me heavily. I am simply arguing that too much emphasis is sometimes spent on things, in this case a simple little wink to Bond's past. It's not Shakespeare; it's a pun about a pen. And as a writer, I do understand the importance of the written word and how bloody hard it is to not only produce a story with them but also the effort it takes to fit them right where they need to go into a piece of writing. I was just stating that sometimes we often look far too much into the simplest of things. It's all a part of human nature though: the quest to understand by searching, though sometimes a tad too fervently.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    It's not Shakespeare

    Get Joss Whedon to write a Bond movie if you want it to be like Shakespeare...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    It's not Shakespeare

    Get Joss Whedon to write a Bond movie if you want it to be like Shakespeare...

    I can't tell if you're serious or not. Hopefully the latter...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    I can't tell if you're serious or not. Hopefully the latter...
    Actually I feel like Whedon is the modern day equivalent.
    To a degree.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited March 2014 Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    I can't tell if you're serious or not. Hopefully the latter...
    Actually I feel like Whedon is the modern day equivalent.
    To a degree.
    I'm not really that familiar with his work beyond some of his shows I've watched a low number of and Avengers of course, so I won't ostracize you further, though I was only joking in the first place. My best friend loves Whedon, so he would agree quite favorably with your statement, I'm sure. ;)
  • Posts: 2,483
    But would you at least agree that LTK is then deemed part of the "back to basics" that is SF with this strong gadget reference (and GF as well with the radio, one could say), while GE is not, with the quip to dismiss its gadget ? None of the gadgets in this sequence, whether shown or talked about, are original, they all allude to past movies. How can one think here that the choices are random and not meaningful ?

    About slating references being impossible, look at the beginning of FYEO for instance.

    Yes, LTK is a back-to-basics Bond film. The series clearly has cycles of fantastical and fundamental. This is well known. But while Bond films refer--even playfully, sometimes--to earlier Bond films, they do not criticize them. And that goes for FYEO's PTS as well, which takes a jab at McClory, not TB.

  • Posts: 2,483
    chrisisall wrote:
    Why would Bond films slate other Bond films? Makes no sense whatsoever.
    Allow me to hyperanalyze:
    Bond's successful employment of the DB5 in SF was meant to denigrate GF where Bond used it in botched escape attempt.
    The destruction of MI6 was meant to dump on TWINE. This is how you REALLY blow s**t up you morons.
    Bond being shot off the train slagged on TB, where Bond getting shot was nothing comparatively.
    SF's Q being played by a gay chap was clearly making fun of Desmond's Q, who never got laid in a single movie.
    Bond's work out scenes are obviously pissing all over Connery & Moore's later films for them being all fat & out of shape.
    Severine's murder is knocking every silly Bond movie in which Bond ends up with the girl.

    Wow, Skyfall seems to have been specifically DESIGNED to give the finger to most previous movies, eh?
    ;)

    Hire this man as MI6's Critic Laureate, post haste!

  • Posts: 2,483
    Murdock wrote:
    Skyfall is like a nice Medium well steak. It's good in all the right ways. A bit of fat here and there, but all in all it's still really good. Not perfect. But still delicious.

    I'll have mine medium rare, thank you very much, and bring me a nice bottle of zinfandel while you're about it.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Murdock wrote:
    Skyfall is like a nice Medium well steak. It's good in all the right ways. A bit of fat here and there, but all in all it's still really good. Not perfect. But still delicious.

    I'll have mine medium rare, thank you very much, and bring me a nice bottle of zinfandel while you're about it.

    What do I look like the Chef? :))
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    This is one of tastiest off-topic manoeuvres I've ever witnessed. :D
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    DarthDimi wrote:
    This is one of tastiest off-topic manoeuvres I've ever witnessed. :D

    Not really an off topic derailment. I was using food as a metaphor to describe the Craig movies. =))
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited March 2014 Posts: 12,480
    For me, now that I'm quite hungry:

    CR - A perfect rack of lamb, skewered, with the accompanying charred vegetables, all grilled to perfection over a creamy Italian risotto, and served with a great Italian Barolo wine

    QOS - A messy, bit crudely chopped up BBQ port sandwich with fries, albeit quite delicious in its own messy way, from a drive thru (with sweet iced tea)

    SF - A fine filet mignon, with perfect Bernaise sauce, along with a bottle of Taittinger; and for dessert, a traditional sticky toffee pudding

    Cheers!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    For me, not that I'm quite hungry:

    CR - A perfect rack of lamb, skewered, with the accompanying charred vegetables, all grilled to perfection over a creamy Italian risotto, and served with a great Italian Barolo wine

    One sympathizes.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    If you don't eat 'rare' you need to rethink your life.
  • QOS would be jerk chicken with a side of curried goat, symbolizing the Caribbean style of locations Bond was shown.
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