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"Did i overcomplicate the plot ?" - Skyfall Appreciation & Discussion

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  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    I see it too.
    bond_and_m.jpg

    I see where you're coming from though. They do share a slight resemblance.

    Is this the Canadian version?
    Yes. It's customary to swap faces over here. It's more polite that way.

    And you swapped with Connery?
    Connery swapped with me.
  • MadeleineSwannMadeleineSwann
    Posts: 591
    I posted this on my fan art discussion page, but thought since there may be people who don't go on that, I'd post this here:

    Here's a little thing I worked on last night. It's a tribute video for one of my favourite James Bond films, and my all time favourite Daniel Craig film, using Laura Mvula's song for one of my other favourite films, The Man From Uncle. Enjoy.

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @MadeleineSwann

    Now that is one great work of art!
    Truly amazing.
    I wish that bloody boring Skyfall theme could be replaced by this fantastic song!!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @MadeleineSwann, fantastic work! Great use of music, clever screen wiping for transition shots and I love the parts where you line up the visuals with the tune, like when the music stalls until Bond grabs that guy's gun while they're on top of the iced over lake, where it kicks into high gear again.

    If you've made any other videos like this (especially Bond focused ones), I'd love to see them.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Stunning, Ms Swann, thanks for posting
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    I still say that the scene beginning with Bond and Silva going outside (after the introduction) on the Dead Island up until Bond captures Silva is one of my favourite scenes in the franchise (despite Bond's controversial reaction to Severine being killed).

    To me, doesn't get much more Bond than this:
    sf6-cl-jkt1.jpg

    I always wondered if this was actually a real scene from a Fleming novel. But it isn't. The entire William Tell sequence is entirely unique, original and breathtaking. It twists and crawls the emotions from the viewer, from sheer fun to absolute disgust. From Silva's sick pleasure to Severine's uncomfortable yet totally believable fear....everything works. Everything. EVERYTHING! :-D!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    jake24 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    I see it too.
    bond_and_m.jpg

    I see where you're coming from though. They do share a slight resemblance.

    Is this the Canadian version?
    Yes. It's customary to swap faces over here. It's more polite that way.

    And you swapped with Connery?
    Connery swapped with me.

    This is troubling. Deeply troubling.

    I really wish I hadn't seen that. Really.

    Now it will be even more difficult to view that movie...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Craig's face on M really works. Scary.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Just because they swapped clothes?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Actually Craig now looks like Bardem's brother, just give him a wig.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    Astonishing work as always, @MadeleineSwann.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    A lot of people bash SF for not being 'fun'. Actually, I find the humour in SF to be very clever, even if it is in small doses. E.g. Silva asking Bond if he's 'getting warm' just before the Skyfall estate blows up in his face. Still, there was an outcry for more 'fun' and in SP we got some half-funny stuff that stuck out sorely in the picture (the failing gadgets in the car chase, the airbag, the couch in the pre-titles, etc.)
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited September 2016 Posts: 4,043
    Skyfall is infinitely better than SPECTRE.

    I'm not the biggest fan of the theme but compared the wailings on the wall its a masterpiece.

    Also the humour is so much better, its like a different team made the film, plotholes yeah but seriously some thought went into it unlike its disastrous follow up.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    IncompetentHenchman wrote: »
    A lot of people bash SF for not being 'fun'. Actually, I find the humour in SF to be very clever, even if it is in small doses.
    I completely agree.
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Skyfall is infinitely better than SPECTRE.

    I'm not the biggest fan of the theme but compared the wailings on the wall its a masterpiece.

    Also the humour is so much better, its like a different team made the film, plotholes yeah but seriously some thought went into it unlike its disastrous follow up.
    I too prefer the humour in SF to SP. It's more woven into the narrative and sarcastic, rather than seemingly tacked on for groans. I can't argue with your assessment of the themes either.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The natural humour in SF plays really well, but the actual 'gags' are largely terrible. It's too earnest a film for most of them to land.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited September 2016 Posts: 11,425
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    On a side note. Mads Mikkelsen in the latest issue of Empire magazine, states that he didn't like the way LeChiffre was killed in CR. He felt it was too abrupt! I have to say I disagree! A great moment among many! I don't agree that the last 20 minutes feel pasted on! Vespers betrayal and death are so necessary, and its handled beautifully by Campbell! (I love the 'Don't Look Now' homage with the red dress too!)

    Always loved the Don't Look Now homage. That is the kind of homage I love to see in Bond - not homages to Bonds own back catalogue!

    Terence Young did homages to Hitchcock and Hamilton referenced Orson Welles in TMWTGG house of mirrors sequence. Awesome.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    There's a lot of Kubrick in SF and SP. The Scotland driving scenes are a tribute to The Shining and the Rome meeting in SP has an Eyes Wide Shut feeling to it-the SPECTRE agents were even originally in masks in a previous draft. All that besides, there's shots that really focus on symmetry and order and the overall mood of the films, especially SP, feels very Kubrickian. I think the lack of a score in a lot of pivotal SP scenes really heightens the same uneasiness and echoing intensity Kubrick nailed in everything he did as well. It's clear Mendes is a fan of his catalogue.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    I actually like Skyfall but my only real big complaint is the title. It just sounds more like a Bond video game and less like a movie. Does anybody else feel they could have easily named it Property of a Lady? That actually would of made sense with the plot. The "lady" would refer to M and the "property" could refer to Silva. Heck, "property" could even refer to that little statue that M leaves Bond at the end to remind him why he needs to keep doing what he does. It also would of used a Fleming title for the 50th anniversary.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited September 2016 Posts: 11,425
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    There's a lot of Kubrick in SF and SP. The Scotland driving scenes are a tribute to The Shining and the Rome meeting in SP has an Eyes Wide Shut feeling to it-the SPECTRE agents were even originally in masks in a previous draft. All that besides, there's shots that really focus on symmetry and order and the overall mood of the films, especially SP, feels very Kubrickian. I think the lack of a score in a lot of pivotal SP scenes really heightens the same uneasiness and echoing intensity Kubrick nailed in everything he did as well. It's clear Mendes is a fan of his catalogue.

    Yes I clocked the Shining reference with the drive up. A shame the Skyfall Lodge sequences lacked any of the tension that Kubrick brought. More Home Alone than anything else.

    Hadn't thought about it with SP but I guess you are right.
    QsAssistant wrote: »
    I actually like Skyfall but my only real big complaint is the title. It just sounds more like a Bond video game and less like a movie. Does anybody else feel they could have easily named it Property of a Lady? That actually would of made sense with the plot. The "lady" would refer to M and the "property" could refer to Silva. Heck, "property" could even refer to that little statue that M leaves Bond at the end to remind him why he needs to keep doing what he does. It also would of used a Fleming title for the 50th anniversary.

    totally disagree. Skyfall was fine as a title.

    Spectre was utterly lame

  • MadeleineSwannMadeleineSwann
    Posts: 591
    Couldn't find somewhere for QoS to post this, but if anyone's interested in seeing a similar video to my Skyfall one above somewhere, I've posted one for Quantum of Solace.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    When I first heard the title "Skyfall" I did admittedly think of the then-fairly recent "Skyline" game so I can see your point of how it sounds like a video game.

    I came round to it though and now have no problems with it.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @MadeleineSwann, I know many who'd love to see that. The QoS fans of MI6C all hang out here, if you want to share it with us!

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1117/quantum-of-solace-appreciation-thread-we-found-a-better-place-to-meet#latest
  • HellerHeller London
    Posts: 29
    Finally found somewhere where I can put into words my love for this film. From the first time I watched it on the big screen to my latest viewing on Blu-ray, Skyfall never ceases to amaze me. It's got such gravitas and is so epic in scale, thanks due in most part to Sam Mendes and Roger Deakins, whose work on this is nothing short of spectacular. Seriously, this film is a piece of art. Thomas Newman's score has such an understated quality to it, and the performances are sublime.

    A couple of scenes really stand out for me. Bond and Severine's exchange in the casino is quintessential Bond. The Shanghai fight is up there with the Bond/Grant brawl in FRWL, and the courtroom shootout is executed to perfection. The minor plot contrivances aside, this is as good as Bond gets.

    If only its successor was half as good...
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,629
    I'm still struggling to like SkyFall, and i never liked the title, sounds too catchpenny to me, Spectre at least is associated with the series, and sounds much cooler!
    Whereas Deakins and Mendes did give SF a good visual edge, i prefer Sp, probably because of the locations! Those who complain about the yellow filter tend to overlook the Bond/Severine scene in the casino, where they both look like extras from The Simpsons!
    The Patrice fight, for me was too staged ,the Bond/Hinx scrap was far more exciting and the courtroom shootout was just ok. You'd see much better shootouts in any Cop TV show!
    Oops, just realised this an appreciation topic! I really want to like SF, but its just too underwhelming.Craig is great though! (Had to finish on some kind of appreciation!)
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    I dont think you should stuggle to like any piece of art, you either like it or you dont and there is no shame in not liking anything. Movies are very complex pieces of art with so many different factors (the title for example, I really dont care what its called but others do care), at the end of the day, we all want different things from movies. SF gives me what I want from a Bond movie.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    I'm still struggling to like SkyFall, and i never liked the title, sounds too catchpenny to me, Spectre at least is associated with the series, and sounds much cooler!

    I always thought the title was great and something I could imagine Fleming using, which is quite a feat in itself. SP, as a title, always felt a bit on the nose to me. I've grown to accept it given the sort of double-meaning, but I still see it as underwhelming, especially when the organisation are better realised in other films.

  • patbpatb
    edited October 2016 Posts: 4,617
    The complete opposite of SP, "Skyfall" , as a title, provides an opportunity for the script writer to be ahead of the audience and get us to think (which is always good IMHO). Within the word association scene, both parties know the significance of the word and, with hindsight, we learn why it has been used and we learn the Bond is still raw with the emotions that it brings to him.

    The reveal at the beginning of the final act is an opportunity for the scriptwriter to say to the audeince "you see now, were you paying attention?, now can you see ?" and you either get that right at the reveal (and realise that just returning there must be hard for Bond) or later. (if unsure, you do get it on second viewing), so it gives nothing away re the plot but offers the clue of foreboding and something really bad happening.

    Compare that the title "SPECTRE" both in what it gives away to the audience in advance and what extra it adds re getting the audience to think and work things out.

    The complete opposites and this really shows what very different movies they are in how they treat the audience.
  • HellerHeller London
    Posts: 29
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Those who complain about the yellow filter tend to overlook the Bond/Severine scene in the casino, where they both look like extras from The Simpsons!
    The Patrice fight, for me was too staged ,the Bond/Hinx scrap was far more exciting and the courtroom shootout was just ok. You'd see much better shootouts in any Cop TV show!

    The difference being is that the yellow/golden hue effect in the casino scene in Skyfall was achieved mostly by considered lighting, whereas in Spectre it was added as a filter in post-production.

    I obviously disagree regarding the Patrice fight, which has been almost universally lauded, and my biggest grumble with the Hinx fight is that the filmmakers took away his metal thumbnails that had been so brutally established in the meeting scene. The sight of those going near Bond's eyes would've added much more tension. And I'd love to know which cop shows you're referring to...
  • GettlerGettler USA
    Posts: 326
    Did anyone think 'Skyfall' meant something else before they saw the film?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited October 2016 Posts: 28,694
    @Gettler, before I saw the film, I wondered if Skyfall was some kind of secret mission M had performed in the past that had big consequences, actually, and not something related to Bond. While the mission with big consequences was right (the spy swap with Silva), I didn't see Bond's old home coming until the reveal.


    It's always hard for me to compare SF and SP. They both have an equal amount of things the other does better, and I always look at them as a two-part adventure, meaning it's a real bugger to rank them.

    They both join together to feel like one complete story, and could be watched back to back and feel very much like a two-part adventure, as so many of the same themes are shared between them. Because of this, in my mind it's difficult to separate them into two different films, especially since the creative team is largely the same, and even the cinematography of each retain a sense of visual artistry and class A composition, despite the filtering on SP.

    I'd probably face the same conundrum with CR and QoS, but in the latter case the editing is so different and the cinematography far more arty than the former that it's much easier to view those two as separate films in their own right than SF and SP.

    Does anyone else face this dilemma?
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