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"Did i overcomplicate the plot ?" - Skyfall Appreciation & Discussion

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Cool idea =D>
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Yes I'm one of those who liked the Scooby Gang and Ben especially to have so much screen time in SP !
    It would be wonderful @Brady if Q could show some MacGyver like quality in a future Bond. It would be totally believable too as Whishaw would make it believable on screen. I really underestimated that actor at first, I have to admit that.
    As for Desmond, no one will ever be able to replace him. But as with Connery, it was proven other actors can take the role. So Ben is in a good place now and I'm sure he could become this and future generations ultimate Q.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    If Bond gets into some trouble abroad and Q can't develop a quick gadget, he'll just have to phone @Murdock. He'll whip him up a cool laser in seconds. ;)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I have just the thing. :))
    OTh1chrl.jpg
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Its curious. Outside of fan forums, Skyfall has definitely overtaken Casino as Dan's finest entry. Beloved UK film reviewer Mark Kermode , for instance, prefers Skyfall. Generally I see YouTube reviewers like Calvin Dyson also prefer Skyfall. Hmm...

    CR is much better
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited August 2016 Posts: 3,333
    Getafix wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Its curious. Outside of fan forums, Skyfall has definitely overtaken Casino as Dan's finest entry. Beloved UK film reviewer Mark Kermode , for instance, prefers Skyfall. Generally I see YouTube reviewers like Calvin Dyson also prefer Skyfall. Hmm...

    CR is much better

    Kermode doesn't really like Bond that much, he's more of a horror buff. Though I agree with him that OHMSS is probably the best 007 entry. No offence to Calvin Dyson but I honestly don't see what the big fuss is about his reviews. Besides, 2 reviewers isn't much of a consensus.

    CR is miles better, by the way.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I like Calvin's reviews, they are always fun to listen and he himself is a nice bloke. However, I'd say Haphazardstuff's reviews are superior in the sense that they seem to go into a bit more depth.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,407
    Skyfall was on Television again last night! (With ITV cuts of course, seems they didn't want people seeing Bond dig shrapnel out of his shoulder! Mind you, I dislike this scene, so maybe they were right!)
    I switched it off after a while. it still doesn't do it for me! Better than CR?? Not by a billion miles!
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    I understand how and why Casino Royaleis better than Skyfall.
    The plotting is better, the story is better, yes yes I get it.

    But I never summon up the enthusiasm to watch CR the way I do SF. The latter is my favourite Craig Bond simply because I never tire of re-watching it. The look of the film, the flow of the film, I find it endlessly accessible.

    CR is more of a chore simply because the last 20 minutes seem pasted on. Necessary of course (the story has to be concluded), but the film feels like it has already ended when Le Chiffre dies. In CR Craig is relentlessly terrific, the women are comparable to the 1960s Bond girls (higher praise than that is impossible to give), the cast excellent, the action is exciting, the cinematography exceptional, but it simply doesn't pull me in as much as SF does.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,407
    On a side note. Mads Mikkelsen in the latest issue of Empire magazine, states that he didn't like the way LeChiffre was killed in CR. He felt it was too abrupt! I have to say I disagree! A great moment among many! I don't agree that the last 20 minutes feel pasted on! Vespers betrayal and death are so necessary, and its handled beautifully by Campbell! (I love the 'Don't Look Now' homage with the red dress too!)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Well LeChiffre is killed in the book in the same way. The film was just following the novel in that scene.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    NicNac wrote: »
    I understand how and why Casino Royaleis better than Skyfall.
    The plotting is better, the story is better, yes yes I get it.

    But I never summon up the enthusiasm to watch CR the way I do SF. The latter is my favourite Craig Bond simply because I never tire of re-watching it. The look of the film, the flow of the film, I find it endlessly accessible.

    CR is more of a chore simply because the last 20 minutes seem pasted on. Necessary of course (the story has to be concluded), but the film feels like it has already ended when Le Chiffre dies. In CR Craig is relentlessly terrific, the women are comparable to the 1960s Bond girls (higher praise than that is impossible to give), the cast excellent, the action is exciting, the cinematography exceptional, but it simply doesn't pull me in as much as SF does.
    I'm 100% with you @NicNac. I absolutely love watching 90% of CR but the last act is painful in more ways than one and puts a heavy weight on the entire film. It's objectively the best of the Craig films by far for me, but I'd rather watch SF or QoS any day because they are 'lighter' films.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,244
    I never really liked the Venice finale tbh. Mind you I absolutely love the film and think it's a classic, but the falling house seems so out of place to me. I love Le Chiffre's demise, but the setup for finding White and Vesper's suicide could have been different.

    In that way both SF and SP are indeed easier to watch, and more escapist.
  • RC7RC7
    edited August 2016 Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    I understand how and why Casino Royaleis better than Skyfall.
    The plotting is better, the story is better, yes yes I get it.

    But I never summon up the enthusiasm to watch CR the way I do SF. The latter is my favourite Craig Bond simply because I never tire of re-watching it. The look of the film, the flow of the film, I find it endlessly accessible.

    CR is more of a chore simply because the last 20 minutes seem pasted on. Necessary of course (the story has to be concluded), but the film feels like it has already ended when Le Chiffre dies. In CR Craig is relentlessly terrific, the women are comparable to the 1960s Bond girls (higher praise than that is impossible to give), the cast excellent, the action is exciting, the cinematography exceptional, but it simply doesn't pull me in as much as SF does.
    I'm 100% with you @NicNac. I absolutely love watching 90% of CR but the last act is painful in more ways than one and puts a heavy weight on the entire film. It's objectively the best of the Craig films by far for me, but I'd rather watch SF or QoS any day because they are 'lighter' films.

    I don't find SF or QoS lighter at all, quite the opposite. CR works well for me because it strikes a perfect balance of light and shade, where SF and QoS have a similarly dour atmosphere.
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    I never really liked the Venice finale tbh. Mind you I absolutely love the film and think it's a classic, but the falling house seems so out of place to me. I love Le Chiffre's demise, but the setup for finding White and Vesper's suicide could have been different.

    I'm always flabbergasted at how many people on here dislike the finale. I think it's inventive, original, well paced and perfectly executed. In terms of dramatic build and pay-off it knocks the SF finale into a cocked hat. Just watch Vesper's final moments and Bond's reaction versus the Chapel scene in SF. No comparison imo.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    I find both deaths quite haunting. Vesper slowly drowning, never taking her eyes away from Bond is quite spooky and of course desperately sad. M's death is good because Dench is so damned brilliant (she really should have been nominated for an Oscar for Skyfall).

    I don't dislike the finale of CR, I just feel exhausted from the watching the film unfold up to Le Chiffre's death. It's hard to take any more. The film ends when LeChiffre dies, ends again when Vesper dies, and finally ends a third time at Mr White's villa.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    NicNac wrote: »
    I find both deaths quite haunting. Vesper slowly drowning, never taking her eyes away from Bond is quite spooky and of course desperately sad. M's death is good because Dench is so damned brilliant (she really should have been nominated for an Oscar for Skyfall).

    I don't dislike the finale of CR, I just feel exhausted from the watching the film unfold up to Le Chiffre's death. It's hard to take any more. The film ends when LeChiffre dies, ends again when Vesper dies, and finally ends a third time at Mr White's villa.

    My problem with SF is that any tension is undercut the moment Bond jokingly quips, 'I got into some deep water'. Remove that and you have a much more appealing scene.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    You can't enjoy the Moore films very much.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Those quips just don't suit Craig or the mood of his films. It was a little misplaced, especially as the woman was about to die. Tonally imbalanced imho.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I agree @RC7 That quip should have been cut, the scene didn't need any jokes
    at that point.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,603


    I also caught it on ITV (why do we do this when we have the DVDs anyway?), as a massive fan, I will always watch it again. Now this very much could be me looking too deeply into a movie and seeing things that are not there but freeze the clip at 0.38 and compare their profiles (forehead, nose, chin, cheekbones etc) , if someone told you they were mother and son, would you you see this? M as the mother figure and Bond's affection for M (and the bad guy's feeling so for M ) is the core theme and is this scene a clever way of re-enforcing this or is it just co-incidence? Happy to be torn to shreds on this one
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited August 2016 Posts: 10,591
    I see it too.
    bond_and_m.jpg

    I see where you're coming from though. They do share a slight resemblance.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,603
    oh, thats cruel
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I am so happy that this 'mommy' subtext that had definitely taken hold over the course of the past films is behind us.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959
    @jake24, ever since I saw that picture a year or so ago, I can't see the original image in any other way. It haunts me.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,603
    Agreed, but it was Skyfall that confronted the issue and dealt with it once and for all.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @jake24, ever since I saw that picture a year or so ago, I can't see the original image in any other way. It haunts me.
    It's eerie isn't it?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    jake24 wrote: »
    I see it too.
    bond_and_m.jpg

    I see where you're coming from though. They do share a slight resemblance.

    Is this the Canadian version?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    I see it too.
    bond_and_m.jpg

    I see where you're coming from though. They do share a slight resemblance.

    Is this the Canadian version?
    Yes. It's customary to swap faces over here. It's more polite that way.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    You can't enjoy the Moore films very much.

    Moore is my favourite Bond. It's about context.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    jake24 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    I see it too.
    bond_and_m.jpg

    I see where you're coming from though. They do share a slight resemblance.

    Is this the Canadian version?
    Yes. It's customary to swap faces over here. It's more polite that way.

    And you swapped with Connery?
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