It's Carnival Time! - The WORLD CUP FINALS 2014.

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  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2014 Posts: 18,270
    ^ Well, I did warn you that football is a very corrupt game nowadays, Ice. And the same goes for most sports nowadays, even cricket for heaven's sake! It's not cricket, it really isn't.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 7,507
    Sammm04 wrote: »
    Jobo seems to have thrown his head into the sand.

    Well since my contribution to the site has been missed, here I am! :)

    No one can deny that the best team overall won the tournament. But this was an even game, and Argentina were just as close to winning it. But Argentina's attack has been underperforming throughout the tournament. Today they finally got space to counterattack but were not able to take their chanses. Messi had a decent game (I have a feeling some of you have seen the wrong game...) but unfortunately he faltered during those preassius match desicive moments. But both he and Argentina will get another chance in four years. What they should learn until next time though, is that playing with three narrow attackers with no width simply does not work in this day and age...

    And I have to congratulate Germany on this historic day! It's the first time a European side wins the world cup outside Europe! And it's the day I started to respect David Beckham and his sun! :)
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    Congratulations to all Germans around here!!

    Klose deserved a WC!!

    Lucky you that didn´t meet Spain this time ;) :D !!!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2014 Posts: 12,480
    First time a substitute has scored the winning goal in a World Cup, too. (No, I didn't know that; I read it on BBC sports). Gotze will remember that all his life and so will many, many people, too. =D>

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Says it all about our inept FA and their root and branch reforms. Every tournament we limp out of they something will change and it never does.

    The Germans finished bottom of the group on Euro 2000 and declared it was unacceptable so put in processes to change it.

    Since then their record reads: Runners up, group stage, third, runners up, third, SF, winners.

    Steady progress over a decade and a half culminating in tonight while England just get worse and worse.
  • Posts: 6,396
    jobo wrote: »
    Sammm04 wrote: »
    Jobo seems to have thrown his head into the sand.

    Well since my contribution to the site has been missed, here I am! :)

    No one can deny that the best team overall won the tournament. But this was an even game, and Argentina were just as close to winning it. But Argentina's attack has been underperforming throughout the tournament. Today they finally got space to counterattack but were not able to take their chanses. Messi had a decent game (I have a feeling some of you have seen the wrong game...) but unfortunately he faltered during those pressius match desicive moments. But both he and Argentina will get another chance in four years. What they should learn until next time though, is that playing with three narrow attackers with no width simply does not work in this day and age...

    And I have to congratulate Germany on this historic day! It's the first time a European side wins the world cup outside Europe! And it's the day I started to respect David Beckham and his sun! :)

    Judging by people's reaction on here, the television, radio, Twitter etc. it would seem that you were watching the wrong game.

    He was simply dreadful.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I found these on the comments thread of BBC and think some good points are made:

    Former England defender Rio Ferdinand
    MOTD analyst
    GERMANY WIN THE WORLD CUP
    Posted at
    "This isn't a project started last year by the German FA. It's something that has been in the making for the last 10-12 years. These players have played together at international youth level, under-21 level. Now they're world champions. England fans will be watching this and asking 'can we do this?'"

    Former England striker Alan Shearer
    MOTD analyst
    GERMANY WIN THE WORLD CUP
    Posted at
    "The Germany manager deserve a lot of credit. He was so near and yet so far [in previous tournaments]. He changed his tactics and system and believed in what he thought would work.
    "He made a big call in taking off Miroslav Klose and bringing on Mario Gotze and it worked."
  • Posts: 7,653
    Messi played perhaps his best game today, but he does not deserve the best player award as his performance this whole tournament was nothing to rmember. Robben & Roderiguez would be more deserving as they actually made a difference. But then again the FIFA is corrupt. So I hope that Messi will personally make some sort of a statement as he is quite a decent guy.

    Germany won because they were the best. Congratulations.
  • Posts: 7,507
    He completed several auccesfull dribbles, had a few clever passes, calmed the tempo down with his composure on the ball. Not a spectacular game by any means (especially by his standards) but still a high caliber performance. One changed detail; a goal on his chance in the start of the second half, and people would talk about "how good he was". Add to that an Argentina victory and people would have hailed him as the best ever... Football is about marginals I guess...
  • Posts: 7,653
    jobo wrote: »
    He completed several auccesfull dribbles, had a few clever passes, calmed the tempo down with his composure on the ball. Not a spectacular game by any means (especially by his standards) but still a high caliber performance. One changed detail; a goal on his chance in the start of the second half, and people would talk about "how good he was". Add to that an Argentina victory and people would have hailed him as the best ever... Football is about marginals I guess...

    He still is not the best player this tournament, and there is no cup for what could have been.

  • Posts: 479
    James Rodriguez deserved that award, not Lionel Messi. But he'll be happy with the Golden Boot.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Lionel Messi, Evita, Jorge Luis Borges, General Galtieri, Diego Maradona, Gustav Graves, Corned Beef. Your boys took one hell of a beating!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited July 2014 Posts: 9,117
    jobo wrote: »
    He completed several auccesfull dribbles, had a few clever passes, calmed the tempo down with his composure on the ball. Not a spectacular game by any means (especially by his standards) but still a high caliber performance. One changed detail; a goal on his chance in the start of the second half, and people would talk about "how good he was". Add to that an Argentina victory and people would have hailed him as the best ever... Football is about marginals I guess...

    Absolutely. And bottom line is when the big chance comes in a World Cup final you have to slot it. No one cares about how many passes or dribbles you completed - you have to have ice in your veins and deliver in that split second.

    Messi had the chance and spurned it and that aside was peripheral for large swathes of the game.

    Because of that he really can't take his place alongside Maradona, Pele and Zidane. However good your career you have to deliver in a World Cup final to dine at the top table of legends - it's harsh but that simple at the end of the day.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    jobo wrote: »
    He completed several auccesfull dribbles, had a few clever passes, calmed the tempo down with his composure on the ball. Not a spectacular game by any means (especially by his standards) but still a high caliber performance. One changed detail; a goal on his chance in the start of the second half, and people would talk about "how good he was". Add to that an Argentina victory and people would have hailed him as the best ever... Football is about marginals I guess...

    Absolutely. And bottom line is when the big chance comes in a World Cup final you have to slot it. No one cares about how many passes or dribbles you completed - you have to have ice in your veins and deliver in that split second.

    Messi had the chance and spurned it and that aside was peripheral for large swathes of the game.

    Because of that he really can't take his place alongside Maradona, Pele and Zidane. However good your career you have to deliver in a World Cup final to dine at the top table of legends - it's harsh but that simple at the end of the day.

    Exactly my sentiments - I've had enough of the fannying around that some teams rather indulged in. The aim of football is to score goals though you could be forgiven for thinking otherwise this World Cup, but Germany ultimately showed them how it was done and thank goodness for it.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 7,507
    jobo wrote: »
    He completed several auccesfull dribbles, had a few clever passes, calmed the tempo down with his composure on the ball. Not a spectacular game by any means (especially by his standards) but still a high caliber performance. One changed detail; a goal on his chance in the start of the second half, and people would talk about "how good he was". Add to that an Argentina victory and people would have hailed him as the best ever... Football is about marginals I guess...

    Absolutely. And bottom line is when the big chance comes in a World Cup final you have to slot it. No one cares about how many passes or dribbles you completed - you have to have ice in your veins and deliver in that split second.

    Messi had the chance and spurned it and that aside was peripheral for large swathes of the game.

    Because of that he really can't take his place alongside Maradona, Pele and Zidane. However good your career you have to deliver in a World Cup final to dine at the top table of legends - it's harsh but that simple at the end of the day.

    Regarding your first point: Of course. And I never claimed otherwise. I'm simply pointing out how exaggeration is every football fan and pundit's preferred artform.

    Regarding your assertion of the importance of a world cup, or indeed the final itself, in the context of judging who is the "greatest" player, I'm not so sure. The Champions League has long gone eclipsed the World Cup as the tournament of the highest caliber, level and difficulty. The only thing it doesn't have is the same iconic status and global appeal. Several of the best players in history never won or even participated in a WC final. A lesser player than Messi might never have been able to bring Argentina there... I think Messi has to demonstrate more to be labelled as "the best ever" (if that even is sn appropriate description of any player throughout history...?), but he has many more years left in him, and I don't think he necessarily needs a World Cup win to do so.

    It might also be true that he's not the deserved player of the tournament. (Although I doubt a player like Rodriguez would have shone the way he did if faced with the same kind of attention and man marking Messi has been throughout the tournament...). Robben might be a better pick, but even he mostly had to deal with 1 or 2 players maximum as opposed to Messis 3 or 4.

    Btw: I was of course reffering to Beckham's son and not his "sun" earlier. :)) My spelling might be terrible at times as you have already noticed, but I assure you I'm not really that stupid ;))
  • Posts: 2,081
    jobo wrote: »
    It's the first time a European side wins the world cup outside Europe!

    Um, no it isn't. Remember the World Cup before this one, in 2010? South Africa is not in Europe. And Spain is. What were you doing when you should have been attending geography lessons at school, I wonder? ;)

  • Posts: 498
    That was a tense game, but what a lovely ending. Great goal by Goetze. I just read that what Klose whispered in his ear was, "You can make it happen."

    GXF2D00Z_zpsb83cd70a.jpg
    (I have this poster hanging by my garage. Thought it was fitting.)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    He said that right as Gotze came on the field? Classy and motivating! :)
  • Posts: 498
    Yeah, he said it to Goetze when he came on as his sub. Isn't that sweet?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I keep seeing Goetze spelled as Gotze and I haven't made time to check for accuracy.

    But the point is, that was so classy and appropriate, him saying that.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 7,507
    Tuulia wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    It's the first time a European side wins the world cup outside Europe!

    Um, no it isn't. Remember the World Cup before this one, in 2010? South Africa is not in Europe. And Spain is. What were you doing when you should have been attending geography lessons at school, I wonder? ;)

    Oops! Yes, true that! :)

    Pardon my mistake. What I "meant to say" of course is that it's the first time a European wins the world cup on American soil, and adding to that outside a european time zone. Well, now I have my facts correct ;)
  • Posts: 7,507
    I keep seeing Goetze spelled as Gotze and I haven't made time to check for accuracy.

    But the point is, that was so classy and appropriate, him saying that.

    His name is spelled "Götze" in German. So its anyone's pick how they want to spell it without German letters. Think Goetze with an "e" is the most used version internationally.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited July 2014 Posts: 9,117
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    He completed several auccesfull dribbles, had a few clever passes, calmed the tempo down with his composure on the ball. Not a spectacular game by any means (especially by his standards) but still a high caliber performance. One changed detail; a goal on his chance in the start of the second half, and people would talk about "how good he was". Add to that an Argentina victory and people would have hailed him as the best ever... Football is about marginals I guess...

    Absolutely. And bottom line is when the big chance comes in a World Cup final you have to slot it. No one cares about how many passes or dribbles you completed - you have to have ice in your veins and deliver in that split second.

    Messi had the chance and spurned it and that aside was peripheral for large swathes of the game.

    Because of that he really can't take his place alongside Maradona, Pele and Zidane. However good your career you have to deliver in a World Cup final to dine at the top table of legends - it's harsh but that simple at the end of the day.


    Regarding your assertion of the importance of a world cup, or indeed the final itself, in the context of judging who is the "greatest" player, I'm not so sure. The Champions League has long gone eclipsed the World Cup as the tournament of the highest caliber, level and difficulty. The only thing it doesn't have is the same iconic status and global appeal. Several of the best players in history never won or even participated in a WC final. A lesser player than Messi might never have been able to bring Argentina there... I think Messi has to demonstrate more to be labelled as "the best ever" (if that even is sn appropriate description of any player throughout history...?), but he has many more years left in him, and I don't think he necessarily needs a World Cup win to do so.

    It might also be true that he's not the deserved player of the tournament. (Although I doubt a player like Rodriguez would have shone the way he did if faced with the same kind of attention and man marking Messi has been throughout the tournament...). Robben might be a better pick, but even he mostly had to deal with 1 or 2 players maximum as opposed to Messis 3 or 4

    Sorry I'm not having this Champions League tosh. How many European Cups did the likes of Di Stefano and Puskas lift between them? Yet never won the World Cup and consequently are never mentioned in the same breath as Pele and Maradona but in the second tier of great players alongside the Bests and Cruyffs of the world.

    Messi's club career pisses all over Maradona's but at the end of the day who cares about clubs? I know the marketing from Sky et al tells you it's all about the Champions League but club football just passes the time for the next 4 years. The World Cup is still the pinnacle because you don't get another chance next season. The rarity of that opportunity to write yourself into history is so scarce that when it comes you simply have to grasp it to be labelled a legend.

    There are many great players throughout history some of whom like Cruyff and Puskas fell agonisingly short. Now Messi has to be added to that list. It doesn't mean they arent great, or even very exceptional but they couldn't take that final step to greatness so there is always a question whether they are fit to dine at the top table with Pele, Maradona and Zidane.

    As for him being more heavily marked than anyone else; very true but no excuse if you have aspirations to join the legends.

    Maradona used to have 3 or 4 blokes smashing him into row Z. He used to take it and still find a way to deliver.

    Still the best I've ever seen and while Messi might be close to having similar skills I don't think he's quite got the desire and downright nastiness and refusal to lose of Diego that can squeeze out those extra few ounces of performance that can make all the difference.

    I read an interesting thing the other day where Maradona said the player who most closely resembled him at the World Cup was Suarez not Messi. I agree because Suarez simply refuses to lose and doesn't care how he goes about that - Maradona the same. But last night I got the impression Lionel was waiting for the ball to come to him and then he would turn it on. Not good enough mate - when you're going under with 7 minutes left if you're the player everyone is looking to you have to demand the ball and take the game by the scruff of the neck.

    Maradona revelled in having such pressure on his shoulders but it seemed that Messi wilted.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Saying that Champions League is bigger than the World Cup, apart from being absolutely mental, is akin to saying Diamond League meets in Athletics are bigger than the Olympics.

    The World Cup is the pinnacle of achievement in football.
  • DiscoVolanteDiscoVolante Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts: 1,347
    jobo wrote: »
    I keep seeing Goetze spelled as Gotze and I haven't made time to check for accuracy.
    His name is spelled "Götze" in German. So its anyone's pick how they want to spell it without German letters. Think Goetze with an "e" is the most used version internationally.
    Yes, oe = ö

    I'm so happy for the Germans. Truly well-deserved and my favorites from the start.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    I agree with The Wiz. Watching Messi, when he lost the ball he didn't try to tackle back, he simply wandered about the pitch, always walking, waiting for someone to pass it to him.
  • Posts: 7,653
    NicNac wrote: »
    I agree with The Wiz. Watching Messi, when he lost the ball he didn't try to tackle back, he simply wandered about the pitch, always walking, waiting for someone to pass it to him.

    And he still became the nest player of the tournament with Muller being the 2nd And Robben 3rd is a travisty, as those players were of much more importance and showed a heck more football and will to play football.

    Messi like Ronaldo very overrated this tournament.
  • Posts: 315
    I saw an interesting discussion this morning about FIFA, America and the 2022 World. Everyone knows that FIFA is probably the most corrupt sports organization around. But other than the English press, very few news organizations are willing to take FIFA on. That is until the New York Times(using alot from the London Times) has printed some damaging articles. Chief among the complaints is the selection of Qatar as the site of the 2022 WC and the shocking number of migrant workers deaths. Qatar is a terrible choice, the high summer temps being on part of it. Many people were paid alot of money to seal the deal.

    The hint was made that there may be a re-exmaination of Qatar decision and possibly a re-vote. I wonder if my worldly friends have heard such stories.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 7,507
    Saying that Champions League is bigger than the World Cup, apart from being absolutely mental, is akin to saying Diamond League meets in Athletics are bigger than the Olympics.

    The World Cup is the pinnacle of achievement in football.

    It's the pinnacle in terms of prestige and spectacle, yes. Not in level and general quality. European club teams will always have the upper hand in terms quality personel, and they are far better organized, cohesive and well drilled as they have the luxury of training together every week.

    Would a semifanalist in the CL play with Fred and Hulk up front? Gago and Biglia in midfield? Demichelis (to be fair he's actually had a great tournament, but who on earth could have anticipated that?) and Martins Indi? No. They would have used the money necessary to invest in a world class player where required, recruiting from any corner of the globe.

    Would any world cup team be able to field Ronaldo, Benzema, Bale, Di Maria and Modric together? Would any World Cup team be able to match At Madrids brilliantly organized and cohesive defence? Of course not! The two last WC winners are those who had the possibility to base their team on a club side of the highest level: Spain - Barcelona, Germany - Bayern.

    Football as all other sports has evolved. The WC has kept it's status, but is no longer the tournament with the highest quality. Do I need to elaborate more?
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 6,396
    jobo wrote: »
    Saying that Champions League is bigger than the World Cup, apart from being absolutely mental, is akin to saying Diamond League meets in Athletics are bigger than the Olympics.

    The World Cup is the pinnacle of achievement in football.

    It's the pinnacle in terms of prestige and spectacle, yes. Not in level and general quality. European club teams will always have the upper hand in terms quality personel, and they are far better organized, cohesive and well drilled as they have the luxury of training together every week.

    Would a semifanalist in the CL play with Fred and Hulk up front? Gago and Biglia in midfield? Demichelis (to be fair he's actually had a great tournament, but who on earth could have anticipated that?) and Martins Indi? No. They would have used the money necessary to invest in a world class player where required, recruiting from any corner of the globe.

    Would any world cup team be able to field Ronaldo, Benzema, Bale, Di Maria and Modric together? Would any World Cup team be able to match At Madrids brilliantly organized and cohesive defence? Of course not! The two last WC winners are those who had the possibility to base their team on a club side of the highest level: Spain - Barcelona, Germany - Bayern.

    Football as all other sports has evolved. The WC has kept it's status, but is no longer the tournament with the highest quality. Do I need to elaborate more?

    Seeing as you're dead wrong, I would say yes you do!
This discussion has been closed.