John Cleese Suggests that Bond franchise lost its humor with Skyfall...

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  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I, for one, liked Cleese as R/Q. He wasn't a carbon copy of Llewellyn's Q, Cleese had a sarcastic tone, and was more capable at firing verbal jabs back at Bond.

    As for the humour, I would have to agree with Cleese. At the end of the day, it's horses for courses, but I don't recall any humour in the last 3 films.

    i don't think Cleese was all that bad at all personally. He's the weakest Q of the three but he handled what the script gave to him as well as he could.


    Cleese is the second best of the 4. Llewellyn was a much loved fixture of the series, and I don't think he will be topped. Cleese would come second. After Cleese comes a drop off in quality with the bland Algernon/Q from Never Say Never Again in third, and finally the worst, that junior Q from Skyfall.
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I, for one, liked Cleese as R/Q. He wasn't a carbon copy of Llewellyn's Q, Cleese had a sarcastic tone, and was more capable at firing verbal jabs back at Bond.

    As for the humour, I would have to agree with Cleese. At the end of the day, it's horses for courses, but I don't recall any humour in the last 3 films.

    Not even the Tube train gag in SF?

    The health and safety line? Was that supposed to be humorous, if so, then it was misjudged.

    No, "He's in a hurry to get home!" or whatever it was.

    I don't remember that line.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,984
    RC7 wrote:
    In SF the funniest moment of the tube scene is Dan's delivery of 'Open the door', for me.

    Regards Cleese, I found him borderline preposterous in TWINE and I regard Fawlty Towers as almost perfect. I just don't get it.

    The first time I saw SF, I laughed so hard at his face and slow delivery of "Open...the doooor." I wasn't sure if it was meant to be funny, but it worked for me.
  • edited June 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Cleese has done some brilliant work, most of it more than 30 years ago. He is no
    longer very funny and is definitely not someone whose opinion I take very seriously. SF definitely increased the number of gags on CR and QoS, the only problem was that none of them were actually very funny (this is part of an on-going problem related to poor scripts). I prefer the minimal humour of DC's first two films to the lame sub-Mooresque jokes in SF. That said, I'd love to see a more light hearted Bond movie with a general all round more up beat tone and some well judged, genuinely humourous lines/situations.
  • Posts: 7,653
    The were no Mooresque jokes in SF, as those depend on the delivery and we all know that in that aspect Roger Moore rules supreme and even DC acknowledges that, hence his effort to steer clear of them.
    Mendes however is another tale............ I'll be curious if he remains the director and might even consider stepping down.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited June 2014 Posts: 40,984
    @Getafix, I'm right there with you. That's what threw me off in SF, just being used to how Craig was in his former two movies, and now here he is, spouting off one-liners that aren't funny or...well, anything to me. I didn't see the point in quite a few of them, and some really took me out of the experience. With this return of P&W, I'm actually looking forward to seeing how the humor is handled this time around. I wish I was a fly on the wall in the room they're working on the script in, just so I could see what they're doing to B24.

    At this point, though, is it really plausible that Mendes would exit the project because of the return of P&W?
  • Posts: 6,396
    Cleese was terrible as Q but at least he knows how to deliver a gag. Unlike Dalton who's attempts at humour was the biggest misstep in the entire series.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I don't think he'd leave beacuse of P+W. Infact, I don't think it's likely he will. But their return is clearly a sign of some problems behind the scenes. I don't think Mendes will be doing cartwheels right now. I think he'll be worried about the script and I think P+W's return means that Babs and MGW are imposing their will more than Mendes would like. I am speculating that Mendes was asking for may be another six months to perfect the script and EON said there is no way we are delaying the release another year and have brought in P+W to complete a workable script asap. I think Mendes will have been told to like it or lump it. I reckon EON are determined the film comes out Nov 2015. Whether Mendes is at the helm will be interesting to see. I think he'll still be there, Dan will be begging him to stay.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Cleese was terrible as Q but at least he knows how to deliver a gag. Unlike Dalton who's attempts at humour was the biggest misstep in the entire series.

    That's harsh, especially how the humour was toned down in TLD & LTK.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Cleese was terrible as Q but at least he knows how to deliver a gag. Unlike Dalton who's attempts at humour was the biggest misstep in the entire series.

    That's harsh, especially how the humour was toned down in TLD & LTK.

    No, it's not harsh, it's the truth. And it wasn't toned down anywhere near enough.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Weird. I think Dalton does comedy rather well. Better than DC to be honest.

    Couldn't stand Cleese as Q - just summed up the Brosnan era. Everything became a bit of lame joke.
  • edited June 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Cleese was terrible as Q but at least he knows how to deliver a gag. Unlike Dalton who's attempts at humour was the biggest misstep in the entire series.

    That's harsh, especially how the humour was toned down in TLD & LTK.

    No, it's not harsh, it's the truth. And it wasn't toned down anywhere near enough.

    I've said before, Dalton could do humorous lines well but not "quips". They just didn't really work for him.

    Case in point the "dead end" line in LTK. Utterly forced in, unfunny and pointless. Not a massive fan of "he met his waterloo" either.

    Overall I think Craig handles most of the lighter stuff better than Dalton did.

    "I read your obituary of me!"
    "And?"
    "appalling"
  • Posts: 6,396
    Getafix wrote:
    Weird. I think Dalton does comedy rather well. Better than DC to be honest.

    Couldn't stand Cleese as Q - just summed up the Brosnan era. Everything became a bit of lame joke.

    Dalton did "comedy" fine in Rocketeer and Hot Fuzz, but in Bond? Not a chance.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,984
    I also love the millisecond stupid, drunken gaze on Bond's face when M turns on the light for the first time in her flat. You can tell he's trashed and has been accustomed to the darkness in her place for some time now, so the sudden flash of light brings a look upon his face that makes me laugh.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,296
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I also love the millisecond stupid, drunken gaze on Bond's face when M turns on the light for the first time in her flat. You can tell he's trashed and has been accustomed to the darkness in her place for some time now, so the sudden flash of light brings a look upon his face that makes me laugh.

    More subtle humour there - perhaps that is Craig's forte?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,984
    @Dragonpol, I'd most certainly say so. It seems to be the smaller moments you'll miss or the lines that may or may not be funny are the best ones for him. He's better at keeping it subtle.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited June 2014 Posts: 17,804
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Case in point the "dead end" line in LTK. Utterly forced in, unfunny and pointless. Not a massive fan of "he met his waterloo" either.
    I like BOTH lines immensely. That's Bond entertaining himself with dark irony. Not meant to be funny (you don't see him smirking nor anyone with him laughing), and THAT'S why I find it funny. Like the 'shocking' line in Goldfinger. It's Bond's way of keeping the distasteful elements of a death at emotional arm's length.
    Moore & Broz did the haw haw knee-slappers. And most of THOSE I could have done without, frankly.
    Forgot to knock? Positively shocking. [-(
  • edited June 2014 Posts: 11,189
    But Connery pulls off the "shocking" line in a dry way. THAT makes it funny. You also believe someone like Connery WOULD say it as there is an arrogance about him. Killing some thug doesn't shake him and he can shrug it off in a second. The quip suited his brutal character. I didn't buy it with Dalton. Someone like him wouldn't say that in real life.
  • Posts: 1,492
    chrisisall wrote:
    I like BOTH lines immensely. That's Bond entertaining himself with dark irony. Not meant to be funny (you don't see him smirking nor anyone with him laughing), and THAT'S why I find it funny. Like the 'shocking' line in Goldfinger. It's Bond's way of keeping the distasteful elements of a death at emotional arm's length.
    Moore & Broz did the haw haw knee-slappers. And most of THOSE I could have done without, frankly.
    Forgot to knock? Positively shocking. [-(

    That was always the line with Connery. The dark irony was there to keep death at bay. It grew to a point where anything Broz/Moore said came out like a gag. Moonraker was littered with them.

    Back to Cleese

    Well, i suspect it rears his head when his era is bashed. Senile dementia Mr Cleese.

  • Posts: 11,189
    The last line of dialogue Cleese utters in DAD is "that's rather hard isn't it" referring to the VR simulator.

    By the end of that film EVERY line is an innuendo.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    BAIN123 wrote:
    The last line of dialogue Cleese utters in DAD is "that's rather hard isn't it" referring to the VR simulator.

    By the end of that film EVERY line is an innuendo.
    I'm not easily offended, but that DID do it for me...

  • edited June 2014 Posts: 2,599
    What a load of bollocks! There was plenty of humour in SF. What the hell's he on about?! If there is more humour in Bond 24 than there is in SF then they will have gone too far in terms of Craig's take on the character and the tone of this Bond era. They often go too far though so I won't be surprised if they ruin the film by making it into something close to a Moore Bond movie with an actor who can't pull off the type of humour that Connery and Moore could do so well. Additionally, Bond 24 needs natural humour not one liners. Now that P & W are writing, it won't come as a surprise to me if a potentially great script by Logan is turned into some tacky, cheap sitcom.

    I hated Cleese as Q. I liked him in Fawlty Towers but in the Bond films he was a train wreck. Mind you, Brosnan wasn't far off that either.

    I reckon Cleese is still bitter about being kicked out of the role after DAD. He said as much in an interview a few years ago.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    The thing is, they change Bond actors and as a result they change the character of Bond as well.

    As a result of this what they should do is change Bond's humour.

    The droll one liners suited Connery, and the double entendres suited Moore, but somehow they persevered with a combination of both for Dalton and Brosnan, when perhaps they should've adapted the much needed humour to the actor concerned.

    Brosnan is funnier when he reacts to situations, pulling comedy faces or whatever. Similar to when he escapes the police and drops to the ground during the PTS of TWINE. He looks at the passers by, does a double take or whatever and walks away. That's when he is funniest, not when he delivers a terrible pun.

    Dalton may have struggled with the one liners, but they really should have played to his strengths. After all his Bond is a 360 degree turnaround from Moore, so why make him drop the same old crummy jokes? Instead of the stupid 'salt corrosion' quip the writers should have discussed with Dalton what he was comfortable doing or saying. A simple wink at the girl would've been funnier.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I don't think a wink would have suited Dalton, it would have been too cheesy, too... Moore-ish. I liked the salt corrosion line, but if you didn't what if Bond just shrugged? Or even something simple like his 'sorry' to Kara when he shows her the bullet hole in the chello.

    The worst offender in the Dalton films, was thankfully cut from The Living Daylights. I am, of course, talking about the ridiculous Magic Carpet Ride. I don't know who cut it, but thank you. If that had made it into the film, even I could not have defended it's existence.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,296
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Dragonpol, I'd most certainly say so. It seems to be the smaller moments you'll miss or the lines that may or may not be funny are the best ones for him. He's better at keeping it subtle.

    I agree - humour is a problem that the more serious Bond actors face - witness Dalton's humour line delivery in TLD especially.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Dragonpol, I'd most certainly say so. It seems to be the smaller moments you'll miss or the lines that may or may not be funny are the best ones for him. He's better at keeping it subtle.

    I agree - humour is a problem that the more serious Bond actors face - witness Dalton's humour line delivery in TLD especially.

    I personally thought Dalton dealt with it fine. May be the humour could have been better adapted to his style, but generally it was okay. Craig has had some good lines. I think his problem is more the quality of the writing than anything else.
  • Posts: 2,341
    The one liners never suited Dalton's style. They were in TLD because the producers believed that the audiences expected them. they had been a staple since Sean's line, "See that he doesn't get away." in DN

    Moore was so OTT but they jived well with his persona and the direction of the films. When they change actors they have to retool. TLD has so many Moore influences but Dalton navigated the waters and managed to establish his own stamp despite the attempts at humor. By LTK the writers knew exactly what he and they wanted.

    GE has some Moorish humor and one liners and Pierce handled them okay.
    Craig is a totally different animal and the writers, all the material suited him well. So what if Cleese misses the humor, I mean who really cares?

    SF is a balsy movie and I would not change anything.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,356
    Bond movies aren't comedies. It's his opinion. I found him funny, but in a clumsy way. He was right for Brosnan, but not for Craig.
  • Posts: 11,189
    All very well for Cleese to have an opinion. Just don't mention the car ;)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    BAIN123 wrote:
    All very well for Cleese to have an opinion. Just don't mention the car ;)

    Cars are like opinions. Everybody has one.
    Or was that arse?
  • Posts: 6,396
    BAIN123 wrote:
    All very well for Cleese to have an opinion. Just don't mention the car ;)

    Cars are like opinions. Everybody has one.
    Or was that arse?

    What, cars are like arses? Well they both produce a lot of gas I suppose.
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