Is OHMSS Better Without Sean Connery?

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  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Strange how things change. I wonder if a single Bond fan came out of the cinema after seeing OHMSS in 1969 and thought it would've been a worse film if Connery had been in it? I'm thinking not. Reassessment out of its original context has obviously worked really well in its favour - so there's hope for QOS yet!
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    Venutius wrote: »
    Strange how things change. I wonder if a single Bond fan came out of the cinema after seeing OHMSS in 1969 and thought it would've been a worse film if Connery had been in it? I'm thinking not. Reassessment out of its original context has obviously worked really well in its favour - so there's hope for QOS yet!
    It's hard to argue OHMSS wouldn't have been more successful on release with Connery.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,789
    Venutius wrote: »
    Strange how things change. I wonder if a single Bond fan came out of the cinema after seeing OHMSS in 1969 and thought it would've been a worse film if Connery had been in it? I'm thinking not. Reassessment out of its original context has obviously worked really well in its favour - so there's hope for QOS yet!
    It's hard to argue OHMSS wouldn't have been more successful on release with Connery.

    It would likely to be the same as the original box office that it really got, mainly, yes it's still Connery, but people were not used to seeing him act like the Bond in OHMSS (Vulnerable, human, especially him crying at the end), it would looked awkward to the eyes of the people at that time.
    Because people at that time were not used to seeing Connery act that way.

    Take a look at FYEO being sandwiched between two more successful entries like Moonraker and Octopussy, because people were not used to his portrayal in FYEO after seeing him played a campy Bond before. FYEO still made money, but not as successful as Moonraker or Octopussy.

    Added to that was a convincing love interest, it wouldn't be well received today, if let's say a different actress took the role of Tracy, people would likely to find the romance unbelievable, because:
    A.) Lack of Chemistry between Connery and whoever his leading lady would be.
    B.) People would likely to find his leading lady to be unconvincing.

    OHMSS became well received because of the convincing romance between Laz and Rigg, and people today easily accepted Lazenby because the portrayal was different from Connery's Bond.

    I don't think the status of OHMSS would still be the same as today had it been with Connery.

    People would likely to complain today like "yeah, it's Connery but the romance wasn't believable because of the lead actress not being convincing, I wished they find a much better actress to portray her, she's miscast, etc. Etc. Etc.

    Typical like the complaints between Craig and Seydoux in SP.
  • Posts: 1,917
    I've seen several references in this thread pointing to Connery wanting out due to the increasing emphasis on gadgetry and the fantastic. That was a factor, but what usually gets overlooked is besides his disagreements with the producers, one of his main complaints was the length of time it took to shoot the Bond films, which he said took away from his being able to pursue projects he found more to his liking.

    I cannot imagine an already disillusioned Connery beginning shooting in the fall of '68 and still being on it as the summer of '69 began. Maintaining Connery in the role would've likely meant a truncated schedule and potentially a less epic OHMSS. Wouldn't matter how good the story and acting challenges were. Besides, Connery said during DAF's production he thought it was the best script yet, unless he was just trying to play nice.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2022 Posts: 6,304
    It's impossible to underestimate Hunt's role in making OHMSS exactly what it is: the only Bond epic with a singular vision.

    Hunt insisted on casting Lazenby, which led to Rigg being cast, a game-changer for the series. He had Lazenby dubbed by a better actor, likely because of the acting deficiencies.

    He insisted on keeping it close to Fleming. And he benefited from shooting in the era of "free love" (Piz Gloria) and "down" ending films (think Bonnie and Clyde).

    As a gay man, he understood the delicious irony of Bond playing gay, and understood and controlled the camp of the Piz Gloria sequence. He hired another gay man, Simon Raven, to punch up the script, which gave us the poetry between Blofeld and Tracy.

    Nobody complains about tonal shifts in OHMSS--Blofeld even says "I've taught you to love chickens"--because Hunt kept the stakes and tension for Bond high throughout.

    So many stars aligned in OHMSS that were not fully appreciated at the time, but are now.
  • Posts: 1,917
    echo wrote: »
    It's impossible to underestimate Hunt's role in making OHMSS exactly what it is: the only Bond epic with a singular vision.

    Hunt insisted on casting Lazenby, which led to Rigg being cast, a game-changer for the series. He had Lazenby dubbed by a better actor, likely because of the acting deficiencies.

    He insisted on keeping it close to Fleming. And he benefited from shooting in the era of "free love" (Piz Gloria) and "down" ending films (think Bonnie and Clyde).

    As a gay man, he understood the delicious irony of Bond playing gay, and understood and controlled the camp of the Piz Gloria sequence. He hired another gay man, Simon Raven, to punch up the script, which gave us the poetry between Blofeld and Tracy.

    Nobody complains about tonal shifts in OHMSS--Blofeld even says "I've taught you to love chickens"--because Hunt kept the stakes and tension for Bond high throughout.

    So many stars aligned in OHMSS that were not fully appreciated at the time, but are now.

    Great observations.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Strange how things change. I wonder if a single Bond fan came out of the cinema after seeing OHMSS in 1969 and thought it would've been a worse film if Connery had been in it? I'm thinking not. Reassessment out of its original context has obviously worked really well in its favour - so there's hope for QOS yet!
    It's hard to argue OHMSS wouldn't have been more successful on release with Connery.

    It would likely to be the same as the original box office that it really got, mainly, yes it's still Connery, but people were not used to seeing him act like the Bond in OHMSS (Vulnerable, human, especially him crying at the end), it would looked awkward to the eyes of the people at that time.
    Because people at that time were not used to seeing Connery act that way.

    Take a look at FYEO being sandwiched between two more successful entries like Moonraker and Octopussy, because people were not used to his portrayal in FYEO after seeing him played a campy Bond before. FYEO still made money, but not as successful as Moonraker or Octopussy.

    Added to that was a convincing love interest, it wouldn't be well received today, if let's say a different actress took the role of Tracy, people would likely to find the romance unbelievable, because:
    A.) Lack of Chemistry between Connery and whoever his leading lady would be.
    B.) People would likely to find his leading lady to be unconvincing.

    OHMSS became well received because of the convincing romance between Laz and Rigg, and people today easily accepted Lazenby because the portrayal was different from Connery's Bond.

    I don't think the status of OHMSS would still be the same as today had it been with Connery.

    People would likely to complain today like "yeah, it's Connery but the romance wasn't believable because of the lead actress not being convincing, I wished they find a much better actress to portray her, she's miscast, etc. Etc. Etc.

    Typical like the complaints between Craig and Seydoux in SP.

    I don’t buy that conceit that people would have been turned off seeing Bond as written. By OHMSS, people would have more likely been receptive to Connery showing a more vulnerable side because he had earned that good will after five films.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Agreed. When you're used to someone being an absolute alpha like Connery's Bond, it can be doubly affecting when they do show vulnerability and emotion.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I do think Connery would have sold the rage in M's office when Tracy was captured, much better than Lazenby did. I also think Connery would have delivered a heartfelt moment when Tracy dies. Think finding Jill in Goldfinger, or even later in his career, that terrific moment in Indiana Jones 3 when he thinks he's lost Indy.

    Although I will say I think Lazenby's best acting in the film was Tracy's death.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited August 2022 Posts: 1,711
    George absolutely delivered a great performance whenever the emotional stakes were high, and frankly, I dont think Sean would have been as good. I love all the Bonds, but Sean definitely has the fewest moments where I'm moved in any way by the acting. Even outside Bond, I've mostly just seen him be angry/tough, or a wise mentor type. But I should probably watch more of his stuff...!

    Where George falters a bit is in the more mundane dialogue, and Connery definitely would have been a bit better at all that.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Connery is my favourite Bond, and OHMSS my favourite film, so one would think combining the two would mean perfection, but I am happy Lazenby is in this. I don t love the film in spite of him, he is a huge part of what makes it so unique and enjoyable.
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