Current geopolitical developments create even better source/plot material for future Bond films

24

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  • 06.09.2014:

    And in the meanwhile the crisis in East-Ukraine keeps triggering old Cold War sentiments. Today, a "permanent" cease fire was established between Kiev and the pro-Russian separatists. Allthough, pro-Russian forces are still fighting for the costal port Mariupol, to force a direct "bridge" between De Krim, so it has more direct borders with Russia.

    For the "classical" West the current cease fire is welcomed, but with much scepticism. The scepticism is logical and it fuelled today new severe sanctions from EU-side. It's quite remarkable how the usually divided European Union agrees more often on political issues that normally wouldn't happen that fast.

    Also the US, Australia and Canada have issues as a result more sanctions. So what do we say about that? Can we now say that we have a "Cold War 2.0" on our hands?

    And how can we turn these current political developments into inspiration for Bond 24...or Bond 25? Any ideas?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Can we now say that we have a "Cold War 2.0" on our hands?
    I'd say so.
    Just hope it doesn't get hot...
  • We all know that Scotland had an important role "Skyfall", as Bond's ancestral country.

    But now a more radical change is possible. Last weekend's edition of the Sunday Times had a new poll on the issue of Scottish Independence. Apparently, the undecideds are now swinging towards a "Yes"-vote. On September 18th the poll takes place. But if it was held today, 51% of all Shots will vote for independence, resulting in athe end of more than 300 years "personal union" with England...and Wales. Basically, Europe will get another new country.

    Should there be a mention of these events in Bond 24? A small reference? We know from "Skyfall" that Bond is a true supporter of the Union Jack. So what should happen now?
  • I'm quite surprised that, when there is no real news about Bond 24, forum members don't get inspired in creating new topics. I mean...is really no one interested in geopolitics? Bond is about that too....I think.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Politics does interest me, however I know that it can get out of hand on the forums. It just is not worth it I think?
  • RogueAgent wrote: »
    Politics does interest me, however I know that it can get out of hand on the forums. It just is not worth it I think?

    Politics for me is very important. It made gay marriage possible. I am gay. And thanks to politics....I can be more free :-). So, I've said it in a very simplistic albeit true way.

    I think we need to take better care of our western politics. Otherwise it can turn, over a course of several decades, into the politics that Putin made big.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Politics does interest me, however I know that it can get out of hand on the forums. It just is not worth it I think?
    To me, politics is somewhat like algebra: it seems simple enough until you find out that x does not equal y, x owns y through campaign donations...
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Politics does interest me, however I know that it can get out of hand on the forums. It just is not worth it I think?
    To me, politics is somewhat like algebra: it seems simple enough until you find out that x does not equal y, x owns y through campaign donations...

    Politics gives you a better understanding and insight on how change can work. And how progressive change and positive thinking compares to conservatism and fear.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Imagine a world without hate &fear.
    Kind of like, at the very end of Beneath The Planet Of The Apes...



    ;)
  • Posts: 4,622
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Imagine a world without hate &fear.
    Kind of like, at the very end of Beneath The Planet Of The Apes...
    ;)
    Prior to that end-of-the-world climax, so tragic that Nova was killed. The two loin-clothed ape-fighting heroes couldn't save her. Maybe best it all got blowed up. Nova was the future of humanity...it's faint hope.
    :\">
  • Posts: 11,425
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Politics does interest me, however I know that it can get out of hand on the forums. It just is not worth it I think?

    Politics for me is very important. It made gay marriage possible. I am gay. And thanks to politics....I can be more free :-). So, I've said it in a very simplistic albeit true way.

    I think we need to take better care of our western politics. Otherwise it can turn, over a course of several decades, into the politics that Putin made big.

    Agreed, but sometimes it's nice to have a refuge from reality. Bond is about escapism, not realistic geopolitics. The way the Cold War was portrayed in Bond films was laughable and bore little connection with the real world.

    Any way, there are two threads on Scottish independence already. And it looks like they'll vote no any way.
  • timmer wrote: »
    Fact is: Current geopolitical developments can be translated in such a way that we get a Thunderball-esque approach. That is: A bit more larger-than-life setting of a criminal terrorist organization, of which its plans are at the same time still realistical enough to happen in the real world.
    Your TB analogy works @Graves. There is a way to mesh real world scenarios with 007's more exciting and escapist fantasy world.

    I never thoug
    I truly don't mean to sound rude here but I'd like to think of current geopolitical developments as something more than just a plot device for a movie...

    And I agree with @4EverBonded, I hope they don't make things so heavy-handed. Something lighter doesn't necessarily mean a Bond film of lesser quality. :)

    It's how you look at things really. Look to "Thunderball". SPECTRE was hijacking two atomic bombs. Allthough that mere plot looked cheesy to many people, one can ask him-/herself what would happen if SPECTRE really detonated a bomb on a big city in the USA.

    Allthough SPECTRE itself was designed in such a way (production design, Blofeld stroking cat) that the organization looked like some kind of gay counterpart of the Bilderberg Conference, nowadays Hamas is bombing Israel. Just to name an example. Or what about using an airplane as a "bomb", LIKE 9/11?

    Fact is: Current geopolitical developments can be translated in such a way that we get a Thunderball-esque approach. That is: A bit more larger-than-life setting of a criminal terrorist organization, of which its plans are at the same time still realistical enough to happen in the real world.

    I never thought it couldn't be written into the script in a not-so-obvious way though, but I think there's ethical problems.

    What kind of ethical problems if I may ask? I'm really curious about that. It's one of the reasons why certain funeral scenes in 'Skyfall' were deleted.

    Because of 'current geopolitical developments' there's a lot of suffering going on right now. I think it's kinda crude to use the situation these people are affected by as the story for some Hollywood blockbuster.
  • timmer wrote: »
    Fact is: Current geopolitical developments can be translated in such a way that we get a Thunderball-esque approach. That is: A bit more larger-than-life setting of a criminal terrorist organization, of which its plans are at the same time still realistical enough to happen in the real world.
    Your TB analogy works @Graves. There is a way to mesh real world scenarios with 007's more exciting and escapist fantasy world.

    I never thoug
    I truly don't mean to sound rude here but I'd like to think of current geopolitical developments as something more than just a plot device for a movie...

    And I agree with @4EverBonded, I hope they don't make things so heavy-handed. Something lighter doesn't necessarily mean a Bond film of lesser quality. :)

    It's how you look at things really. Look to "Thunderball". SPECTRE was hijacking two atomic bombs. Allthough that mere plot looked cheesy to many people, one can ask him-/herself what would happen if SPECTRE really detonated a bomb on a big city in the USA.

    Allthough SPECTRE itself was designed in such a way (production design, Blofeld stroking cat) that the organization looked like some kind of gay counterpart of the Bilderberg Conference, nowadays Hamas is bombing Israel. Just to name an example. Or what about using an airplane as a "bomb", LIKE 9/11?

    Fact is: Current geopolitical developments can be translated in such a way that we get a Thunderball-esque approach. That is: A bit more larger-than-life setting of a criminal terrorist organization, of which its plans are at the same time still realistical enough to happen in the real world.

    I never thought it couldn't be written into the script in a not-so-obvious way though, but I think there's ethical problems.

    What kind of ethical problems if I may ask? I'm really curious about that. It's one of the reasons why certain funeral scenes in 'Skyfall' were deleted.

    Because of 'current geopolitical developments' there's a lot of suffering going on right now. I think it's kinda crude to use the situation these people are affected by as the story for some Hollywood blockbuster.

    Then perhaps we should have demonstrated against the London terrorist attacks in 'Skyfall'. The explosion inside the Vauxhall Cross MI6-building, the shooting at Westminster Parliamentary Committee Room and the derailing of a metro. It's, sadly, very comparable to other real-life terrorist attacks in London (2005).
  • Posts: 11,425
    timmer wrote: »
    Fact is: Current geopolitical developments can be translated in such a way that we get a Thunderball-esque approach. That is: A bit more larger-than-life setting of a criminal terrorist organization, of which its plans are at the same time still realistical enough to happen in the real world.
    Your TB analogy works @Graves. There is a way to mesh real world scenarios with 007's more exciting and escapist fantasy world.

    I never thoug
    I truly don't mean to sound rude here but I'd like to think of current geopolitical developments as something more than just a plot device for a movie...

    And I agree with @4EverBonded, I hope they don't make things so heavy-handed. Something lighter doesn't necessarily mean a Bond film of lesser quality. :)

    It's how you look at things really. Look to "Thunderball". SPECTRE was hijacking two atomic bombs. Allthough that mere plot looked cheesy to many people, one can ask him-/herself what would happen if SPECTRE really detonated a bomb on a big city in the USA.

    Allthough SPECTRE itself was designed in such a way (production design, Blofeld stroking cat) that the organization looked like some kind of gay counterpart of the Bilderberg Conference, nowadays Hamas is bombing Israel. Just to name an example. Or what about using an airplane as a "bomb", LIKE 9/11?

    Fact is: Current geopolitical developments can be translated in such a way that we get a Thunderball-esque approach. That is: A bit more larger-than-life setting of a criminal terrorist organization, of which its plans are at the same time still realistical enough to happen in the real world.

    I never thought it couldn't be written into the script in a not-so-obvious way though, but I think there's ethical problems.

    What kind of ethical problems if I may ask? I'm really curious about that. It's one of the reasons why certain funeral scenes in 'Skyfall' were deleted.

    Because of 'current geopolitical developments' there's a lot of suffering going on right now. I think it's kinda crude to use the situation these people are affected by as the story for some Hollywood blockbuster.

    Then perhaps we should have demonstrated against the London terrorist attacks in 'Skyfall'. The explosion inside the Vauxhall Cross MI6-building, the shooting at Westminster Parliamentary Committee Room and the derailing of a metro. It's, sadly, very comparable to other real-life terrorist attacks in London (2005).

    I think the similarity to 'real' events is unfortunate and detracts from the escapist entertainment value. But I'm not a fan of SF any way, so I would say that.
  • I agree with @Getafix.
  • edited September 2014 Posts: 4,622
    I agree with @Getafix.
    Me too. SF was maybe a little too close to the real events of 2005, for my escapist tastes, but the tone of both of the last two Craig films has been somewhat geo-politically heavy. QoS moreso than SF, which was a mish-mash of tone.

    I prefer Bond to operate in his own escapist world, with real world events operating only as back drop. The '60s films laid down this template perfectly, and for the most part, succeeding films right through to CR, have stuck with the original tone, remaining above the brutal real world fray.

    Mind you real world events, will always serve as at least a backdrop. Even the '60s films were very aware of the public's real concerns at the time, of imminent nuclear world war, but Spectre was cast as the main villain, not Soviet Russia. In fact the Red Chinese were cast as convenient supervillain nuclear collaborators in both GF and YOLT, possibly to not spook moviegoers about real world Soviet designs. The real world Chinese threat was more benign.
    FRWL took pains to cast Spectre as villain rather than Flemings Soviet Smersh plotting.
    I guess the trick is to maintain an escapist fantasy vibe, with the Spectre types portrayed as the real serious threats to humanity, with real world forces only manipulated in the broader supervillain schemes.
  • In about 8 hours we know how the new UK flag could look like:
    SNN1406GXB-682_1437682a.jpg

    Or if Wales finally gets a part in a possible new Union Jack:
    193028924.jpg

    So what would James Bond actually think of all this?

    :-).

  • Posts: 6,023
    Indeed ! Will MI 5 and the Special Branch cede their prerogatives to MI 6 ?
  • Posts: 11,425
    they've voted no any way
  • Posts: 12,526
    Well it's a no, and i for one as an Englishman am pleased that the Union is still intact! :-bd
  • RogueAgent wrote: »
    Well it's a no, and i for one as an Englishman am pleased that the Union is still intact! :-bd

    You'll still be able to keep the British end up. \m/
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I for one do not want to see Bond beheaded by the Islamic State.

    Oooops, I mean" Islamist" State.
  • Posts: 11,425
    These jihadis are so tiresome. In a way, you feel they just be allowed to run their course. Let them go ahead and enslave the entire region and have a go at governing for a few years. So how long they last for.

    Admitedly, that approach could all go badly wrong. ..
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 556
    <a href=http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1028660-world-war-3-vladimir-putin-threatens-west-with-russias-5000-nuclear-weapons/>">http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1028660-world-war-3-vladimir-putin-threatens-west-with-russias-5000-nuclear-weapons/</a>;

    Putin's words sound like stuff you would have heard in the Cold War. NATO members need to respond to this in a direct manner not dismiss this as a bluff.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    In the words of the 'little Danish' ignore it.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,119
    chrisisall wrote: »
    In the words of the 'little Danish' ignore it.

    Pro Russian militants were supplied by huge BUK missile installations. These rockets killed hundreds of my fellow Dutch countrymen. And all Putin does is complaining about the Dutch research process, in trying to find the people who shot down mh17. That same Putin did not have the normal enlightened guts to sign the condolences register in the Dutch embassy in Moscow.

    For me, guys like Putin are dangerous creatures. Suddenly a megalomane villain like General Orlov looks even more realistic.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Do we.....actually like it when Bond films have deeper meanings, plot themes and a more thematically multilayered approach? Not to mention a mirror to today's politics?

    What would you think the theme of Bond 24 could be?
  • Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote: »
    In the words of the 'little Danish' ignore it.

    Pro Russian militants were supplied by huge BUK missile installations. These rockets killed hundreds of my fellow Dutch countrymen. And all Putin does is complaining about the Dutch research process, in trying to find the people who shot down mh17. That same Putin did not have the normal enlightened guts to sign the condolences register in the Dutch embassy in Moscow.

    For me, guys like Putin are dangerous creatures. Suddenly a megalomane villain like General Orlov looks even more realistic.

    Wouldn't it have been even more hypocritical and offensive if he had signed the book of condolensces?
  • Posts: 11,425
    Do we.....actually like it when Bond films have deeper meanings, plot themes and a more thematically multilayered approach? Not to mention a mirror to today's politics?

    What would you think the theme of Bond 24 could be?

    Personally speaking I am not that bothered. I prefer for the effort to go into a well constructed plot. SF for me focuses on themes at the expense of the basic plot and storyline. Now, if a film is both rich in terms of plot and themes, that's great, but generally the story must take priority.

    Mirroring today's politics is definitely not what Bond is about. It's escapist fantasy.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Getafix wrote: »
    Do we.....actually like it when Bond films have deeper meanings, plot themes and a more thematically multilayered approach? Not to mention a mirror to today's politics?

    What would you think the theme of Bond 24 could be?

    Personally speaking I am not that bothered. I prefer for the effort to go into a well constructed plot. SF for me focuses on themes at the expense of the basic plot and storyline. Now, if a film is both rich in terms of plot and themes, that's great, but generally the story must take priority.

    Mirroring today's politics is definitely not what Bond is about. It's escapist fantasy.

    That's a bit black-and-white no? I'd say it's a combination of escapism meets today's politics.

    I do remember this quote from Marc Forster though:

    "Because Bond plays it real, I thought the political circumstances should be real too, even though Bond shouldn't be a political film. I thought the more political I make it, the more real it feels, not just with Bolivia and what's happening in Haiti, but with all these corporations like Shell and Chevron saying they're green because it's so fashionable to be green. During the Cold War, everything was very clear, the good guys and the bad guys. Today there's much overlapping of good and bad. It isn't as morally distinct, because we all have both elements in us."

    —Marc Forster on the political landscape of the film. On top of that, I think both Martin Campbell and especially Sam Mendes have injected quite a bit of politics in Daniel Craig's films.
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