Current geopolitical developments create even better source/plot material for future Bond films

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  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2015 Posts: 18,348
    Do you think the upcoming "Grexit" is driving Greece into the tight deadlock embrace of Russia and China? I'm actually very much worried about the geopolitical consequences a "Grexit" and even a "Brexit" can have. Do not forget that Greece is a NATO-member as well...

    There definitely are links with Putin's Russia, yes. Both are communists ( or in Putin's case former communist). Putin's of course become a fascist since then. Mussolini would be proud of him.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Do you think the upcoming "Grexit" is driving Greece into the tight deadlock embrace of Russia and China? I'm actually very much worried about the geopolitical consequences a "Grexit" and even a "Brexit" can have. Do not forget that Greece is a NATO-member as well...

    Possibly....certainly there is quite a lot in common between Syriza and Moscow at the moment.

    If it happens, blame the imbeciles currently in charge of EU policy making. Blame them for Ukraine as well.

    I don't know if this is just stupidity or intentional, but they are actually creating the scenarios to undermine the EU, without knowing they are doing it. The consequences are quite clear to see, if one is able to look far enough ahead. It never goes as they plan because they don't consider all the scenarios. Their 'modelling' (if they even do that) is way off. I recommend a new set of advisors, to prevent further miscalculations.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Russia has enough problems without worrying about Greece. Their economy is almost as bad as Greece at this point. Dragonpol seems to be confusing social democrats with rightwing fascists, a bit of a bizarre mistake. Syriza are not communists, in fact I believe the Communist Party refused to join their government. The United Russia party isn't communist in any conceivable sense of the word. Moscow these days actually has more links to fascist groups across Europe than left wing ones. I believe their links to the French National Front were in the news recently.

    Bondjames what do Syriza and Moscow have in common, besides a dislike of the currently EU authorities?

    China isn't interested in Greece. Their economy is slowing as well. More importantly though, they're trying to expand their sphere of influence in their immediate region. Money spent propping up Greece is money not spent doing construction in the South China Seas. I know they're forging links in Africa and Latin America, but they haven't attempted to bail out any country and are unlikely to do so.

    As for it inspiring a Bond film-China is not going to be the bad guy in any future Bond films. I'd bet a lot of money on that. The Chinese cinema market is now the 2nd biggest in the world, and the box office even surpasses the US some weekends.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Bond vs. SPECTRE is basically Bond vs. world corporate imperialism. Or a thinly veiled version of it. Quantum of Kotch Brothers. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    @Sark, Syriza & Moscow have the following in common:

    - a dislike for the EU manipulating and bullying them to further their ends. Both appear not to be playing along and that's complicating EU policy making.
    - public support (at least in Moscow, maybe less so for Syriza) for their current course.
    - governments that have some backbone. A refreshing characteristic in my mind.

    The EU is not Washington. They don't have the balls for a showdown, and it's really not going to further their interests (as I said, they should game all the scenarios out properly before initiating). I think they need to reassess both situations (they've already softened their view on Moscow vis-a-vis Ukraine, and they should do the same with Greece).

    I agree that China does not give a hoot about Greece. It's got bigger ambitions in the south China sea. Agree too on us not seeing China as a bad guy in the near future. We may see them portrayed like Russia/Gogol in the old Moore days (i.e. there may be a bad actor, but he/she will be a lone bad seed, and there will be good actors too who will save the day working alongside Bond).
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Those things I can certainly agree with. Although Europe was leading the charge against Russia over Ukraine, moreso than the US. Maybe they're feeling the effects of a large trading partner's economy suffering now. The US has the advantage of very little trade with Russia.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Sark wrote: »
    Those things I can certainly agree with. Although Europe was leading the charge against Russia over Ukraine, moreso than the US. Maybe they're feeling the effects of a large trading partner's economy suffering now. The US has the advantage of very little trade with Russia.

    Exactly. Washington saw an opportunity to further its own aims (namely increased weapon sales) to Ukraine if there was strife, and as you say, they have little to lose since there's limited trade.

    The EU should have 'gamed' this out and known that Putin would not give in on Ukraine (just like the US wouldn't give in on Canada for instance). It was a no win situation from the get-go, so they should have just diffused it at the start rather than letting it escalate and affect their own economies (particularly Germany's). I fear they may be miscalculating on a Grexit as well (it's unlikely to have a major impact on its own, but the loss of confidence and implications for the 'street' in other countries may cause a snowball effect in upcoming years).
  • Posts: 686
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Bond vs. SPECTRE is basically Bond vs. world corporate imperialism. Or a thinly veiled version of it. Quantum of Kotch Brothers. ;)

    or Quantum of George Soros.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Hehe, still.....


    As I am very pro-European and pro-EU, I'm very worried about these last days of June. They could result in another financial melt-down in Europe. It really saddens me to see what is happening right now in Greece.

    Yes, I read many articles from UK newspapers, Even from good old Boris, the mayor of London. But especially those are worrying me a lot. Those conservatives keep forgetting one important thing:

    If we WANT to maintain the welfare and prosperity as opposed to already big dictating world powers China and Russia, we HAVE to cooperate in Europe. I go even further: We HAVE to openly think about the unthinkable: Working towards the United States of Europe.

    If we don't do it, WE Europeans loose our welfare and prosperity, we loose positive futures for our newborn kids, but most importantly, we let China-Russia slowly destroy the European democratic enlightened standard of living. We then will let China-Russia dictating politics in the West already.

    And it's already happening. Far-right-wing conservative parties in the EU are already financially helped by Russian banks. Take for instance Front National. If the EU breaks up, then we let conservatism, but most importantly xenophobia and dictatorial ways of thinking thrive again.

    I really hope, really pray that the EuroGroup, the EU and the IMF will help Greece. If not, then that will be one of the darkest day in EU-history.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    How exactly would China destroy Europe in your mind? Why would China even benefit from Europe having a lower standard of living? Btw Gustav, the "standard of living' and "democratic enlightenment" are two very separate thing. One shouldn't mix them up.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Sark wrote: »
    How exactly would China destroy Europe in your mind? Why would China even benefit from Europe having a lower standard of living? Btw Gustav, the "standard of living' and "democratic enlightenment" are two very separate thing. One shouldn't mix them up.

    First of all, I'm sorry if I have offended you. And I DO think there are differences between China and Russia. China in my opinion seems to be more humble (read: smart) in doing business. Chinese people/immigrants in for instance my country Netherlands have been very succesful and they are among the most respected group of immigrants in Netherlands.

    It's not surprising that the Chinese president choose Netherlands as its first state visit among several European nations.

    The thing that does worry me, is the way how smart Chinese businesses tend to slightly gain more control in Europe. Take for instance the nature of contracts. In China they are always scrutinized by the government. And always include way more clausule in their contracts.

    For example, German car brand Mercedes is allowed to produce in China, but only if it agrees to co-operate with Chinese car brand Beijing Automotive Group. The logical result, new Chinese car brand Denza:
    41f74cd925c8228595b2966a45f5767c.jpg

    While it does sound nice for your country, it basically means that Mercedes allows China to give full control to a new Chinese company, called Denza, to use all of its German Mercedes technology. I think it's not particularly good for the competetitive position for Mercedes on the very long term.

    Another example is Dutch ships propellor manufacturer Stork/Wärtsilä. They only could sign new contracts with Chinese businesses, if it would move the entire production from Europe to China. Wonderful news for China, bad news for prosperity and welfare in Europe, as we make ourselves very dependent from China. On top of that, also here the Chinese government basically vetoes everything if they disagree on certain contracts.

    Or what about Hollywood movies? Big blockbuster movies are very popular right now in China. But they can only premiere out there, if the Chinese censors interfer. If a movie is very critical. Let's say, a movie want to make its leading villain a Chinese, then you already have a big problem. It is one of the reasons why many Chinese won't see the more critically acclaimed Hollywood movies; Movies that are about World War II for instance.

    And right now, as we speak, China has bought up a majority share in the port/harbour of Piraeus, China. Off course the almost bankrupt Greece is desperate to get more money, so they literally handed over the power of that strategically important port to China.

    Now in all honesty, I think Europe is in part to blaim for this. It starts with companies who can only see Euro-signs and who look to short-term profits. But the long-term implications are for me, as a strong European, more severe. Because by doing business with Chinese enterprises, it immediately result in more influence from Chinese politics over Europe.

    I call it a new, very powerful state-run capitalism, that is way more stronger than classic western capitalism which doesn't let politics interfer in conducting business. I am worried about that. And I think many Europeans with me think the same.

    So I think we need to become smarter down here in Europe when we're doing business. I think it's time that perhaps governments in Europe need to nationalize companies a bit more again, like during the old days of industrialization.



    Now don't get me wrong: I respect the Chinese A LOT. But I do think the EU and its inhabitants need to become smarter in conducting business with China.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    In ten years, the EU will decide your budget. Not your parliament or government. Sounds like a state to me.

    Before that the new global trade agreements will be implemented too, without any interference from national politicians in the countries that get affected by them.

    Corporatism is on its way. Another word for that is fascism.
  • Posts: 11,119
    In ten years, the EU will decide your budget. Not your parliament or government. Sounds like a state to me.

    Before that the new global trade agreements will be implemented too, without any interference from national politicians in the countries that get affected by them.

    Corporatism is on its way. Another word for that is fascism.

    Have you ever looked up the meaning of 'fascism'? I heard Putin uses it at will when he talks about 'The West' (Europe, USA, Canada, Australia).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Fascism is corporate rule with a sound monetary politics. Despite what people believe, it has nothing to do with nazism.

    Putin is partly right. The monetary politics is pretty sound for the multinational corporations and central banks, not so much for the nation states, but that is as expected.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Fascism is corporate rule with a sound monetary politics. Despite what people believe, it has nothing to do with nazism.

    Putin is partly right. The monetary politics is pretty sound for the multinational corporations and central banks, not so much for the nation states, but that is as expected.

    That is not true.
    Fascism is a form of reactionary authoritarian nationalism that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. Influenced by national syndicalism, fascism originated in Italy during World War I, in opposition to liberalism, Marxism, anarchism and traditional conservatism. Fascism is often placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum, but some academics call that description inadequate.

    Fascists identify World War I as a revolution. It brought revolutionary changes in the nature of war, society, the state, and technology. The advent of total war and total mass mobilization of society had broken down the distinction between civilian and combatant. A "military citizenship" arose in which all citizens were involved with the military in some manner during the war.

    Compared to the real description of "fascism", this has nothing to do with current EU-politics or any other future outcome of the EU.

    I dare to say that a man like Putin knows tremendously well how to re-write these descriptions so they solely meet Putins objectives. Now that is something I call dangerous.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    So that doesn t happen here in the West?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Everyone is going fascist, including Europe (under the EU, or should I say Germany, since they pretty much control the EU and speak for it for all intents and purposes, being the economic engine). There is more authoritarian rule, whether one wants to accept it or not, everywhere.

    Witness what happened & how Governments reacted in the US & Europe when the Occupy Wall Street movements occurred, or even in Hong Kong earlier this year. Ask a Greek if he feels he's under Euro fascist rule. We can debate definitions, but essentially we are moving towards authoritarian rule in many places, but it's hidden.

    This is inevitable, as:

    1. people keep spewing up the children in ever increasing numbers (i.e. increasing population),
    2. natural resources continue to deplete and become more important
    3. corporations increase their control of Western economies (inevitable as the profit motive forces them to get bigger/more powerful) while non-Western Govts increase their control of other economies (inevitable too in order to compete)
    4. the resource rich Middle East burns
    5. the internet and technology makes jobs more scarce, giving the middle class less viable options and increasing racism and bigotry
    6. the media increasingly becomes a bought and paid for tool of the corporates and governments

    Combine all of this with a new World Order centred around regional interests (and not one hegemonic power as has been the case for the past 20 yrs, nor two hegemonic powers, as was the case for the previous 45 yrs before that) and you have a recipe and requirement for increasing facism to control the population. It will get worse before it gets better.

    Re: Putin: He is first and foremost a nationalist. He is looking out for the interests of Russia and the Russian people. His country is not an EU member and it is not a US puppet. I understand how and why he is acting the way he is. I understand why the Russian people feel the way they do (after Yeltsin sold them down the river with the IMF). So I may not agree with Putin but I understand where he is coming from. He is personally being demonized in the West because he is not playing by Washington's rules. Washington really fears China. That is the elephant in the room. Putin was supposed to play ball.......he is not. So Washington is doing its best to destabilize Russia and get rid of him, so as to find a more amenable partner to deal with over there. The plan, to date, is failing miserably.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Fascism is corporate rule with a sound monetary politics.

    Not even close.

    Gustav, I'm not Chinese. I just live here.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    bondjames wrote: »
    Everyone is going fascist, including Europe (under the EU, or should I say Germany, since they pretty much control the EU and speak for it for all intents and purposes, being the economic engine). There is more authoritarian rule, whether one wants to accept it or not, everywhere.

    Witness what happened & how Governments reacted in the US & Europe when the Occupy Wall Street movements occurred, or even in Hong Kong earlier this year. Ask a Greek if he feels he's under Euro fascist rule. We can debate definitions, but essentially we are moving towards authoritarian rule in many places, but it's hidden.

    This is inevitable, as:

    1. people keep spewing up the children in ever increasing numbers (i.e. increasing population),
    2. natural resources continue to deplete and become more important
    3. corporations increase their control of Western economies (inevitable as the profit motive forces them to get bigger/more powerful) while non-Western Govts increase their control of other economies (inevitable too in order to compete)
    4. the resource rich Middle East burns
    5. the internet and technology makes jobs more scarce, giving the middle class less viable options and increasing racism and bigotry
    6. the media increasingly becomes a bought and paid for tool of the corporates and governments

    Combine all of this with a new World Order centred around regional interests (and not one hegemonic power as has been the case for the past 20 yrs, nor two hegemonic powers, as was the case for the previous 45 yrs before that) and you have a recipe and requirement for increasing facism to control the population. It will get worse before it gets better.

    Re: Putin: He is first and foremost a nationalist. He is looking out for the interests of Russia and the Russian people. His country is not an EU member and it is not a US puppet. I understand how and why he is acting the way he is. I understand why the Russian people feel the way they do (after Yeltsin sold them down the river with the IMF). So I may not agree with Putin but I understand where he is coming from. He is personally being demonized in the West because he is not playing by Washington's rules. Washington really fears China. That is the elephant in the room. Putin was supposed to play ball.......he is not. So Washington is doing its best to destabilize Russia and get rid of him, so as to find a more amenable partner to deal with over there. The plan, to date, is failing miserably.

    @bondjames, are you a history teacher?
    If not, I think you should be....
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