Timothy Dalton or Daniel Craig?

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  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited May 2012 Posts: 13,999
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I am interested in watching Hawks actually. It sounds like a pretty good film.

    Apparently he's a bit 'thespy' in it.

    That's a bad thing?

    And for the record, no, he's not thespy in it.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I am interested in watching Hawks actually. It sounds like a pretty good film.

    Apparently he's a bit 'thespy' in it.

    That's a bad thing?

    And for the record, no, he's not thespy in it.

    No. I am just baiting BAIN, who has a thing about Dalton being too much of an aktoor.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I haven't seen much of him outside of Bond either.

    Saw The Rocketeer sometime ago but don't remember much about it. He does play a bad guy who's an "aktoor" though.

    Saw Flash Gordon a few months back - he's alrite but again a very theatrical part.

    Loved him in Hot Fuzz because of his OTT "theatrical" manner. There he was just having fun.

    Loved him in Toy Story 3 but tbh when I heard he was in it I thought he'd have more than just 4 or so lines :(
  • Posts: 11,425
    The best lines in the movie though!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    @Getafix are you a classicly trained Brosnan basher ?
  • Posts: 11,189
    @Getafix are you a classicly trained Brosnan basher ?

    :)) That was funny
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited May 2012 Posts: 15,723
    BAIN123 wrote:
    @Getafix are you a classicly trained Brosnan basher ?

    :)) That was funny

    Well, excuse me !! *I* am trying to stay in character !!

  • Posts: 4
    Pierce is my fav! of all time but I like them all they all have a diff spin to the role.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited May 2012 Posts: 6,387
    I remember seeing TLD in the theater as a teenager. It was so refreshing after the moribund AVTAK to have a younger, vibrant Bond, and a movie that felt like it had stakes again--a return, one final time, to the Cold War in Europe. (Moore, like Connery, had stayed in the role too long. It seems that Bond actors either leave too soon or too late.) I do feel like Dalton's Bond is the closest we've gotten to Fleming.

    In many ways, Dalton is the proto-Craig. He paved the way for a harder-edged, realistic Bond. (Lazenby is the proto-Dalton, but without the acting chops.)

    On the other hand, Craig made Bond culturally significant for the first time since I don't know when--1977? 1965? When had a Bond film and Bond performance (there was even Oscar talk for Craig) gotten so much positive attention from the critics? Not in Brosnan's era, nor Dalton's, nor Moore's, and certainly not in Lazenby's.

    For now, I'm voting for Dalton. In time we may see that Craig was the most important change in the franchise since Connery, but it's still too soon to judge.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,189
    echo wrote:
    I remember seeing TLD in the theater as a teenager. It was so refreshing after the moribund AVTAK to have a younger, vibrant Bond, and a movie that felt like it had stakes again--a return, one final time, to the Cold War in Europe. (Moore, like Connery, had stayed in the role too long. It seems that Bond actors either leave too soon or too late.) I do feel like Dalton's Bond is the closest we've gotten to Fleming.

    In many ways, Dalton is the proto-Craig. He paved the way for a harder-edged, realistic Bond. (Lazenby is the proto-Dalton, but without the acting chops.)

    On the other hand, Craig made Bond culturally significant for the first time since I don't know when--1977? 1965? When had a Bond film and Bond performance (there was even Oscar talk for Craig) gotten so much positive attention from the critics? Not in Brosnan's era, nor Dalton's, nor Moore's, and certainly not in Lazenby's.

    For now, I'm voting for Dalton. In time we may see that Craig was the most important change in the franchise since Connery, but it's still too soon to judge.

    If I'm honest I think we're already there. Craig has already taken the title Brosnan previously held as "the best Bond since Connery".
  • Hasn't "the best Bond since Connery" line been thrown about an awful lot though? It almost seems to be a standard, almost routine, thing to be written about a current Bond. Pretty hollow stuff, in my opinion, and entirely subjective, and liable to change dramatically.
  • Posts: 12,837
    Hasn't "the best Bond since Connery" line been thrown about an awful lot though? It almost seems to be a standard, almost routine, thing to be written about a current Bond. Pretty hollow stuff, in my opinion, and entirely subjective, and liable to change dramatically.

    That's what I think. They said it about Brosnan, they said it about Craig, and if he's anywhere close to half way decent they'll probably say it about the next guy.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    BAIN123 wrote:
    echo wrote:
    I remember seeing TLD in the theater as a teenager. It was so refreshing after the moribund AVTAK to have a younger, vibrant Bond, and a movie that felt like it had stakes again--a return, one final time, to the Cold War in Europe. (Moore, like Connery, had stayed in the role too long. It seems that Bond actors either leave too soon or too late.) I do feel like Dalton's Bond is the closest we've gotten to Fleming.

    In many ways, Dalton is the proto-Craig. He paved the way for a harder-edged, realistic Bond. (Lazenby is the proto-Dalton, but without the acting chops.)

    On the other hand, Craig made Bond culturally significant for the first time since I don't know when--1977? 1965? When had a Bond film and Bond performance (there was even Oscar talk for Craig) gotten so much positive attention from the critics? Not in Brosnan's era, nor Dalton's, nor Moore's, and certainly not in Lazenby's.

    For now, I'm voting for Dalton. In time we may see that Craig was the most important change in the franchise since Connery, but it's still too soon to judge.

    If I'm honest I think we're already there. Craig has already taken the title Brosnan previously held as "the best Bond since Connery".

    It's only been five and a half years. And we've only seen Craig "becoming" Bond, not as a fully-formed Bond (in Skyfall?). So I think it's too soon.
  • Posts: 11,189
    echo wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    echo wrote:
    I remember seeing TLD in the theater as a teenager. It was so refreshing after the moribund AVTAK to have a younger, vibrant Bond, and a movie that felt like it had stakes again--a return, one final time, to the Cold War in Europe. (Moore, like Connery, had stayed in the role too long. It seems that Bond actors either leave too soon or too late.) I do feel like Dalton's Bond is the closest we've gotten to Fleming.

    In many ways, Dalton is the proto-Craig. He paved the way for a harder-edged, realistic Bond. (Lazenby is the proto-Dalton, but without the acting chops.)

    On the other hand, Craig made Bond culturally significant for the first time since I don't know when--1977? 1965? When had a Bond film and Bond performance (there was even Oscar talk for Craig) gotten so much positive attention from the critics? Not in Brosnan's era, nor Dalton's, nor Moore's, and certainly not in Lazenby's.

    For now, I'm voting for Dalton. In time we may see that Craig was the most important change in the franchise since Connery, but it's still too soon to judge.

    If I'm honest I think we're already there. Craig has already taken the title Brosnan previously held as "the best Bond since Connery".

    It's only been five and a half years. And we've only seen Craig "becoming" Bond, not as a fully-formed Bond (in Skyfall?). So I think it's too soon.

    I know but, given as he's been nominated for an award for his work on CR I genuinely suspect we'll be there sooner than you think (especially if Skyfall gets good write-ups).
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    tjwbond007 wrote:
    Pierce is my fav! of all time but I like them all they all have a diff spin to the role.


    Yes, I like Pierce a lot, too. Do not be upset when the Brosnan bashers come out of the woodwork. There are quite a few who cannot stand him and say plenty of harsh things, and some seem to take any moment on any thread to start bashing him again. Broken record indeed. I was surpsied by that. Just realize it happens. To each his own opinion ... but don't doubt yourself. Pierce was a good Bond. His last film (DAD) was mostly not good, although it had some good scenes, but that was not Pierce's fault.

    Back to Dalton vs. Craig - I like them both a lot, even though they are different. What is similar that both have a more realistic take on Bond, a grittiness. I wish Dalton had done at least one more. But I am really happy with Craig as Bond.
  • Posts: 17
    Dalton.
  • Posts: 3
    Dalton was better as a prince of France in Lion in Winter. It's all Craig.
  • Posts: 1,052
    I think this whole argument is getting a bit silly, different actors play things differently, some people like Craig and some like Dalton, it's part of what keeps the series going, if everyone played the part the same it would be pretty dull!
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think this whole argument is getting a bit silly, different actors play things differently, some people like Craig and some like Dalton, it's part of what keeps the series going, if everyone played the part the same it would be pretty dull!

    It was just meant to be a thread where you can state which actor you personally favour and why.
  • Posts: 299
    Craig, but by a very close margin. Dalton was excellent.
  • Posts: 19,339
    DC hands down,no contest to me..
  • Posts: 2
    CRAIG 100%...Timothy Dalton looked too fragile and unconvincing as Bond ....my least favorites were Dalton and Lazemby
  • Posts: 11,425
    echo wrote:
    I remember seeing TLD in the theater as a teenager. It was so refreshing after the moribund AVTAK to have a younger, vibrant Bond, and a movie that felt like it had stakes again--a return, one final time, to the Cold War in Europe. (Moore, like Connery, had stayed in the role too long. It seems that Bond actors either leave too soon or too late.) I do feel like Dalton's Bond is the closest we've gotten to Fleming.

    In many ways, Dalton is the proto-Craig. He paved the way for a harder-edged, realistic Bond. (Lazenby is the proto-Dalton, but without the acting chops.)

    On the other hand, Craig made Bond culturally significant for the first time since I don't know when--1977? 1965? When had a Bond film and Bond performance (there was even Oscar talk for Craig) gotten so much positive attention from the critics? Not in Brosnan's era, nor Dalton's, nor Moore's, and certainly not in Lazenby's.

    For now, I'm voting for Dalton. In time we may see that Craig was the most important change in the franchise since Connery, but it's still too soon to judge.

    True - CR was the first film for a very long time that critics seemed to take seriously. I fear though that its iconic status is at least partly due to those swimming trunks... a gender reversal of the Ursula Undress scene that says a lot about how society has changed over 50 years.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Dalts wins over Craig for me. His was a classic performance of 007. DC is good but not as good. Also, his performance owes a lot to Dalton, although you never hear him giving Dalts the respect he deserves.



  • edited May 2012 Posts: 6,601
    What do you want him to say? "Oh thanks so much to TD, because he was the first actor trying to be darker and more real again?" Slightly ridiculous now, isnt it? BTW - I don't think, any of them owes anything to the others. Its a film role, they were offered and with what they did the best they could. Each in their own way.

    CR would have happened - Dalton or not. It was all down to the script. I don't think, DC does need to borrow from Dalton, because he succeeds in what Dalton tried to achieve and is better in the mind of most people even on this board (although its close here) - so why would he? He is his own man, as where the others probably.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Germanlady wrote:
    What do you want him to say? "Oh thanks so much to TD, because he was the first actor trying to be darker and more real again?" Slightly ridiculous now, isnt it? BTW - I don't think, any of them owes anything to the others. Its a film role, they were offered and with what they did the best they could. Each in their own way.

    CR would have happened - Dalton or not.

    My point is that after the glorious but (by the end) slightly flabby Moore era, Dalton showed where the series should be going if it was to stay relevent. We then had 20 years of wasted time before Craig began to get the show back on the road.

    CR and QoS feel more like a continuation of the Dalton era than the 1995-2002 period.

    In the interviews and reports you never hear any one make this connection. I think it's a shame. I recognise Dalton fans are in a tiny minority and that people like you resent him for some reason, but it just seems obvious to me that TLD and LTK were actually way ahead of their time and that it has taken a very long time to get back to the strong position we were in at the end of the 80s.
  • Posts: 6,601
    I do agree, that CR and QOS are closer to the Dalton films then to Roger or Pierces films. But what I don't see and that is because I miss the logic is..

    ..why the DC films owe any Thank Yous to Dalton. Overall the films were a failed project and it got us back to the more campy films of the Brosnan era. The wasted years, as you put them, were due to those 2 Dalton films.
    I can only talk for myself, but it might be a valid point.

    Dalton followed the Moore films, which had become over the top and silly.
    I saw them and felt "This is not Bond. He is way to serious." I didn't like them...

    DC followed Brosnans films, which had become over the top and silly.
    I saw CR and felt "This is not Bond. He is way too brutal" I liked it nevertheless, because DC made them worth watching for me - several times and I got used to the new approach.
    I really think, this is the difference, when you remember how the world embraced him after th slaughter.

    Does the Bond franchise owe anything to Dalton? I don't see why? Had the actor back then had more general appeal, he would have succeeded, just like DC.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,425
    Germanlady wrote:
    I do agree, that CR and QOS are closer to the Dalton films then to Roger or Pierces films. But what I don't see and that is because I miss the logic is..

    ..why the DC films owe any Thank Yous to Dalton. Overall the films were a failed project and it got us back to the more campy films of the Brosnan era. The wasted years, as you put them, were due to those 2 Dalton films.
    I can only talk for myself, but it might be a valid point.

    Dalton followed the Moore films, which had become over the top and silly.
    I saw them and felt "This is not Bond. He is way to serious." I didn't like them...

    DC followed Brosnans films, which had become over the top and silly.
    I saw CR and felt "This is not Bond. He is way too brutal" I liked it nevertheless, because DC made them worth watching for me - several times and I got used to the new approach.
    I really think, this is the difference, when you remember how the world embraced him after th slaughter.

    Does the Bond franchise owe anything to Dalton? I don't see why? Had the actor back then had more general appeal, he would have succeeded, just like DC.

    TLD was a well received movie. LTK certainly had its problems, not least that in some countries it was given a higher/older than usual certificate. The reason for the break from 89-95 was a legal dispute and (as far as I'm aware) nothing to do with Tim Dalton. The producers had been trying to get Dalton to play Bond for literally years before TLD and I am not aware of anything that suggests that they would not have kept him on had they been able to make a film in 91. On the contrary, I think Cubby liked Dalton a lot.

    But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
  • Posts: 6,601
    Getafix wrote:
    The reason for the break from 89-95 was a legal dispute and (as far as I'm aware) nothing to do with Tim Dalton. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

    Don't you make it a bit easy for yourself? You didn't answer to any of what I said and what you answered doesn't change the logic of my saying.
    There was a legal break - fine. Had the concept been successful, they would have returned to it, no?
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,425
    I think the concept with TLD was pretty successful. With LTK it was less successful, but there had been less successful films before and there is no reason to believe they would not have changed course for Dalton's third film.
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