What do you want from Billie Eilish's NTTD's title song?

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  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Getafix wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    Being an old git I hadn’t heard of her, but I’m catching up fast on Amazon music. And I think she’s perfect. Her style will suit a contemporary Bond film without disrespecting the history of the franchise ( unlike Madonna). I may be wrong but I think she’s an inspired choice.

    It will all depend on the song. She has a decent voice but will she and her brother deliver a tune of just some electro doodling? I actually quite like their stuff but Bond requires a melody.

    We will probably discover that one or two different artists submitted songs for consideration, as has been the way in the past.

    It would be nice to think that Bille E got the nod due to the quality of the song. But then again someone green lit Die Another Day, which came from the then Queen of Pop who had written some of pop's most memorable tunes over the previous 20 odd years. So, there really is no telling.
  • Can we change the title of this thread to confirm that Billie Eilish is performing the song?!

    i think Calvin Dyson makes some great points in this video. Billie is an 'exciting' choice. It's clearly a move from EON to try and get a popular artist who appeals to a particular market interested in the film. It helps that the highest-selling female artist of 2019 is interested in the job. Bond still has prestige in this respect.



    Personally i really love this song and her voice in it...



  • Posts: 380
    Burgess wrote: »
    All I can say is my expectations are pretty low going in to this Bond film, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised when I watch the film.

    With the exception of the news of Zimmer doing the score, there hasn't been much that has excited me with this film.

    1) The trailer felt like this was going to be SPECTRE 2. More of the same from where we last left off. Great news if you loved SP, bad news if you were hoping for another CR.

    2) The interviews in Empire magazine with some of the actors sound just like every Bond film post Cubby - strong females up against Bond, personal angst for Bond (again), etc.

    3) The choice of artist for the song. I bet right here, right now, that this song will rival QoS and DAD as one of the worst songs of the franchise. The writings on the wall...

    4) I think its fairly obvious now that the unused Fleming books are still being untouched and ignored, instead opting for P&W to give us yet another `original' story that will rehash everything we've seen in the Brosnan and Craig era - lots of personal angst and female power struggles. Throw in the Aston Martin DB5 and retro gadgets for good measure.

    A reboot with a new actor can't come quick enough for me. Its the one time EON throw out all the stops and try to revert back to basics again.

    Like I said, my expectations are fairly low for this film, so I may be in for a surprise...

    What are the unused Fleming novels that you’re referencing?

    I thought everyone knew what they were by now. Ok, here goes -

    DAF, MR, TSWLM, YOLT and TMWTGG

    Okay. Here goes:

    TMWTTG has already been adapted in a film of the same name, and in License To Kill and GoldenEye. LTK and GE are films in which the villain is Bond’s mirror self, like Scaramanga in TMWTGG.

    The best parts of Moonraker were adapted in GoldenEye and Die Another Day. Both films feature a “foreign” villain pretending to be a British patriot or hero.

    A direct adaption of The Spy Who Loved Me won’t be adapted per Fleming’s request. Plus, it’s single setting and lower stakes are not the ripest for an adaption, even if it is a good novel.

    “In 1977 the title was used for the tenth film in the Eon Productions series. It was the third to star Roger Moore as British Secret Service agent Commander James Bond. Although Fleming had insisted that no film should contain anything of the plot of the novel, the steel-toothed character of Horror was included, although under the name Jaws.” - Wikipedia

    The most cinematic parts of You Only Live Twice we’re already adapted in a film of the same name. The garden of death sequence works in the book because you’re able to get into Bond’s head. As a straight adaption to film, I don’t think it would work. Also, how do we know that it doesn’t feature in NTTD. We’ll see.

    Again, Diamonds Are Forever was adapted into a film of the same name. It features diamond smuggling and the Mob. What else is there?
  • Posts: 3,333
    I was a little dubious about Billie Eilish until I saw an acoustic cover of Michael Jackson's Bad. She has an amazing set of pipes. There'll always be those that are resistive to change or progression in the series, but I'm on EoN's side with this. I think we're in for a cracker all round.
    I'm all in favour of progression to some degree as I've been an ardent follower of Bond close for 50 years now. However, that doesn't mean I'm about to embrace bad decisions, poor storylines, miscasting, or even the latest Hollywood trend of woke identity politics in a Bond movie just so that I can claim to be progressive. Move too faraway from Fleming's Bond and you might as well not bother. Same goes for changing the parameters of what has kept Bond champion at the box office after all these decades.

    It just seems a little odd to have a teenager sing the title song when their lead actor is playing 007 as an ageing, semi-retired quinquagenarian. I'd have thought the casting of a much younger actor would've been a more appropriate time to introduce a performer aimed at the yoof market. Again, I hope Billie Eilish proves me wrong, but from what I've heard of her music so far, it all sounds a tad samey to what's concurrently happening within today's music scene. Chalk that up as bland and uninspired.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Minion wrote: »
    Oh, this kind of got lost in the shuffle of the Zimmer/Eilish news, but can we officially say SassiLive is completely full of it?

    They were legit regarding Matera stuff. We must give them credit for it. For example they reported Matera being a location months before confirmations by Variety/THR etc etc. but on the other hand, regarding creative choices from EoN - title, casting, theme etc et c - they just wrote clickbait articles filled with ridiculously made up stuff.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    I've tinkered with the thread title to add Billie's name. It may alter again when the song appears, or we may go for a new thread altogether.
  • What do I want from Billie Eilish's Bond theme? A good song will do! Hopefully something traditional in Eilish's own style would be the obvious way to do it (such as You Know My Name) and a great orchestral piece to be used in the film.

    Craig really has had the weirdest group of singers to do his title songs.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2020 Posts: 16,413
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Not in terms of musical style or facial resemblance.....but in terms of attitude, Eilish behaves a bit like Shirley Manson. And Manson herself once said she admires Eilish's work. Maybe we can expect Eilish's Bond theme to have the style of Garbage's 'The World Is Not Enough'.....since both women are all about 'the eccentric behaviour'.

    There is one of Billie’s songs that reminds me of Utopia by Goldfrapp. So there is some hope of a sultry if slightly weird ballad.

    Yes!...exactly. 'The Sultry & Weird Female'....it looks like that's the approach Eilish is likely to take or has already taken. And i can't really remember the Eilish's song too....but Goldfrapp's 'Utopia' can easily walk into a Bond film....it has this Bjork feel about it. And Bjork like Eilish is also an eccentric female....especially when she was younger. Coz there are some Bjork songs & videos that did look unconventional. But Bjork looked liked someone who would have done a Bond song in the 90s. Her Modern Rendition of 'YOLT' was Good. Eilish's track could well please old & new fans....coz I know how quick we Bond fans change our minds....when we feel good.

    I always thought Lovely Head was a pretty perfect Bond song, but it's quite of its time.
    Burgess wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    All I can say is my expectations are pretty low going in to this Bond film, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised when I watch the film.

    With the exception of the news of Zimmer doing the score, there hasn't been much that has excited me with this film.

    1) The trailer felt like this was going to be SPECTRE 2. More of the same from where we last left off. Great news if you loved SP, bad news if you were hoping for another CR.

    2) The interviews in Empire magazine with some of the actors sound just like every Bond film post Cubby - strong females up against Bond, personal angst for Bond (again), etc.

    3) The choice of artist for the song. I bet right here, right now, that this song will rival QoS and DAD as one of the worst songs of the franchise. The writings on the wall...

    4) I think its fairly obvious now that the unused Fleming books are still being untouched and ignored, instead opting for P&W to give us yet another `original' story that will rehash everything we've seen in the Brosnan and Craig era - lots of personal angst and female power struggles. Throw in the Aston Martin DB5 and retro gadgets for good measure.

    A reboot with a new actor can't come quick enough for me. Its the one time EON throw out all the stops and try to revert back to basics again.

    Like I said, my expectations are fairly low for this film, so I may be in for a surprise...

    What are the unused Fleming novels that you’re referencing?

    The most cinematic parts of You Only Live Twice we’re already adapted in a film of the same name. The garden of death sequence works in the book because you’re able to get into Bond’s head. As a straight adaption to film, I don’t think it would work. Also, how do we know that it doesn’t feature in NTTD. We’ll see.

    Yeah I'm not sure how exciting walking around a garden can be, even if the plants are deadly: they don't move. It would need to be adapted quite heavily and wouldn't really end up as a big set piece.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Yeah, true @mtm Goldfrapp's 'Lovely Head' is quite Bondian....although I've always thought it sounds a bit too eerie....even for a Bond film.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 3,327
    Burgess wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    All I can say is my expectations are pretty low going in to this Bond film, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised when I watch the film.

    With the exception of the news of Zimmer doing the score, there hasn't been much that has excited me with this film.

    1) The trailer felt like this was going to be SPECTRE 2. More of the same from where we last left off. Great news if you loved SP, bad news if you were hoping for another CR.

    2) The interviews in Empire magazine with some of the actors sound just like every Bond film post Cubby - strong females up against Bond, personal angst for Bond (again), etc.

    3) The choice of artist for the song. I bet right here, right now, that this song will rival QoS and DAD as one of the worst songs of the franchise. The writings on the wall...

    4) I think its fairly obvious now that the unused Fleming books are still being untouched and ignored, instead opting for P&W to give us yet another `original' story that will rehash everything we've seen in the Brosnan and Craig era - lots of personal angst and female power struggles. Throw in the Aston Martin DB5 and retro gadgets for good measure.

    A reboot with a new actor can't come quick enough for me. Its the one time EON throw out all the stops and try to revert back to basics again.

    Like I said, my expectations are fairly low for this film, so I may be in for a surprise...

    What are the unused Fleming novels that you’re referencing?

    I thought everyone knew what they were by now. Ok, here goes -

    DAF, MR, TSWLM, YOLT and TMWTGG

    Okay. Here goes:

    TMWTTG has already been adapted in a film of the same name, and in License To Kill and GoldenEye. LTK and GE are films in which the villain is Bond’s mirror self, like Scaramanga in TMWTGG.

    The best parts of Moonraker were adapted in GoldenEye and Die Another Day. Both films feature a “foreign” villain pretending to be a British patriot or hero.

    A direct adaption of The Spy Who Loved Me won’t be adapted per Fleming’s request. Plus, it’s single setting and lower stakes are not the ripest for an adaption, even if it is a good novel.

    “In 1977 the title was used for the tenth film in the Eon Productions series. It was the third to star Roger Moore as British Secret Service agent Commander James Bond. Although Fleming had insisted that no film should contain anything of the plot of the novel, the steel-toothed character of Horror was included, although under the name Jaws.” - Wikipedia

    The most cinematic parts of You Only Live Twice we’re already adapted in a film of the same name. The garden of death sequence works in the book because you’re able to get into Bond’s head. As a straight adaption to film, I don’t think it would work. Also, how do we know that it doesn’t feature in NTTD. We’ll see again, Diamonds Are Forever was adapted into a film of the same name. It features diamond smuggling and the Mob. What else is there?

    Ok, here goes -

    TMWTGG could be done again (properly), including the brainwashed opening, Bond going undercover as Mark Hazard, meeting the villain at a brothel in Jamaica, acting as a bodyguard before being discovered, on a train ride out among the mangrove swamps and seeing a blonde girl tied to the tracks, which leads to the shootout. All that bears only a slight resemblance to LTK, and heaven knows Bond scripts are recycled constantly, with a thinly changed veneer.

    The best part of MR was adapted in GE and DAD? Because of a villain posing as a UK guy? You serious? That alone was the best part of MR? :))

    The game card at Blades? That alone would be worth using, and p!sses all over anything in DAD. Also, the Dover cliff landslide? The car chase?

    TSWLM - I'm sure legal wranglings could be done now. Fleming has been dead for nearly 60 years. And I'd love to see a scene where Bond comes into a Motel and rescues Viv Michel from 2 gangsters. This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with 7 foot Jaws and his steel nashers.

    YOLT - wrong again. Hardly anything from the novel was used (certainly not the best bits). Fans have been clamouring for years for a Shatterhand showdown in the Garden of Death.

    DAF - so the entire book is summarised with diamond smuggling and the mob? That's it? That's the extent of your knowledge of that book? No car chase and then kidnap? No Spectreville Western ghost town? No train chase? No Brooklyn stomping? No horse race? No mud baths?

    There are key scenes, moments, and entire plots that could be worked into at least 3 films with this unused material, and which is still far superior to anything EON have produced since Cubby passed away.


    Anyway, we've digressed slightly. Back on topic... B-)
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I'm not sure what to expect from Eilish and I can't say I was bowled over by what I heard when I flicked through you tube.

    Although I think she is a hell of a lot more interesting than Sam Smith's vanilla pop.

    Each artist has to adhere to the fact they are producing a Bond theme, so I don't imagine she is going to deliver a song like Bad Guy as her theme.

    BB & MGW in their statement said that she and her brother have contributed a very powerful song that compliments the emotional content of the film or words to that affect.

    I'm sure they know how divisive the Madonna theme is and regularly notice it at the bottom of the pile or thereabouts. So won't be letting these 2 siblings an opportunity to put something out wildly experimental and alien to a Bond theme.

    The artist will stamp their own identity on the song but having to realise this is a Bond theme. I'd rather see something interesting rather than having a pastiche opening like WOTW that then develops into a dreary ballad.

    On the subject of that check out Bond ignoramus Collider's Matt Goldberg's top 24 Bond songs.

    https://collider.com/best-james-bond-theme-songs-ranked-worst-to-best/

    These film sites really should get someone who knows some knowledge of their subject, when you have someone putting Barry's OHMSS theme just after DAD & AWTD you know they haven't one clue about the Bond music legacy.

    Anyway I digress, I'm most intrigued to see what she delivers but have mentioned this before that at my age I don't expect to continue to approve of the artist that is chosen as time moves on.

    As some have already said Bond themes tend to from artists of the time. For me the score is a bigger a deal and the fact that Hans Zimmer is on board will eclipse any disappointment I have with the title theme.

    It will be interesting to see when we hear this as it has been revealed much sooner than the usual time line of late, maybe something will be heard in the next few weeks.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,187
    mtm wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    All I can say is my expectations are pretty low going in to this Bond film, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised when I watch the film.

    With the exception of the news of Zimmer doing the score, there hasn't been much that has excited me with this film.

    1) The trailer felt like this was going to be SPECTRE 2. More of the same from where we last left off. Great news if you loved SP, bad news if you were hoping for another CR.

    2) The interviews in Empire magazine with some of the actors sound just like every Bond film post Cubby - strong females up against Bond, personal angst for Bond (again), etc.

    3) The choice of artist for the song. I bet right here, right now, that this song will rival QoS and DAD as one of the worst songs of the franchise. The writings on the wall...

    4) I think its fairly obvious now that the unused Fleming books are still being untouched and ignored, instead opting for P&W to give us yet another `original' story that will rehash everything we've seen in the Brosnan and Craig era - lots of personal angst and female power struggles. Throw in the Aston Martin DB5 and retro gadgets for good measure.

    A reboot with a new actor can't come quick enough for me. Its the one time EON throw out all the stops and try to revert back to basics again.

    Like I said, my expectations are fairly low for this film, so I may be in for a surprise...

    What are the unused Fleming novels that you’re referencing?

    People want the naff brainwashing bits from TMWTGG used, plus bits and pieces from TSWLM etc. It’s mostly dregs, although there might be a couple of bonkers bits from YOLT worth recycling. Most of it isn’t great though.

    Yeah, I’m not seeing the inclusion of the Spang brothers as being something that automatically elevates the film. What’s left of Fleming are bits that would make good scenes, but there aren’t anymore stories aside from Bond reconciling over the death of Tracy, which we kinda got with QOS.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    All I can say is my expectations are pretty low going in to this Bond film, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised when I watch the film.

    With the exception of the news of Zimmer doing the score, there hasn't been much that has excited me with this film.

    1) The trailer felt like this was going to be SPECTRE 2. More of the same from where we last left off. Great news if you loved SP, bad news if you were hoping for another CR.

    2) The interviews in Empire magazine with some of the actors sound just like every Bond film post Cubby - strong females up against Bond, personal angst for Bond (again), etc.

    3) The choice of artist for the song. I bet right here, right now, that this song will rival QoS and DAD as one of the worst songs of the franchise. The writings on the wall...

    4) I think its fairly obvious now that the unused Fleming books are still being untouched and ignored, instead opting for P&W to give us yet another `original' story that will rehash everything we've seen in the Brosnan and Craig era - lots of personal angst and female power struggles. Throw in the Aston Martin DB5 and retro gadgets for good measure.

    A reboot with a new actor can't come quick enough for me. Its the one time EON throw out all the stops and try to revert back to basics again.

    Like I said, my expectations are fairly low for this film, so I may be in for a surprise...

    What are the unused Fleming novels that you’re referencing?

    People want the naff brainwashing bits from TMWTGG used, plus bits and pieces from TSWLM etc. It’s mostly dregs, although there might be a couple of bonkers bits from YOLT worth recycling. Most of it isn’t great though.

    Yeah, I’m not seeing the inclusion of the Spang brothers as being something that automatically elevates the film. What’s left of Fleming are bits that would make good scenes, but there aren’t anymore stories aside from Bond reconciling over the death of Tracy, which we kinda got with QOS.

    Like I said in an earlier post, you could rework the unused Fleming scenes into at least 3 movies, the same way the short stories of OP and TLD were reworked into an entire film, the same way unused key scenes from LALD were reworked into FYEO and LTK.

    It's not all about the Spangs (although I'd love to see a return to gangsters in a Bond film).

    As for stories - Bond going into the Garden of Death, getting amnesia, being brainwashed and returning to London to kill M, going undercover as Mark Hazard to find his man in Jamaica, there is enough material there to plot the basis of 2 films.

    If Cubby and Maibaum were alive today, I'm sure the'd find a way of using this material, instead of retcon crap like Bond and Blofeld being brothers.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    mtm wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    All I can say is my expectations are pretty low going in to this Bond film, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised when I watch the film.

    With the exception of the news of Zimmer doing the score, there hasn't been much that has excited me with this film.

    1) The trailer felt like this was going to be SPECTRE 2. More of the same from where we last left off. Great news if you loved SP, bad news if you were hoping for another CR.

    2) The interviews in Empire magazine with some of the actors sound just like every Bond film post Cubby - strong females up against Bond, personal angst for Bond (again), etc.

    3) The choice of artist for the song. I bet right here, right now, that this song will rival QoS and DAD as one of the worst songs of the franchise. The writings on the wall...

    4) I think its fairly obvious now that the unused Fleming books are still being untouched and ignored, instead opting for P&W to give us yet another `original' story that will rehash everything we've seen in the Brosnan and Craig era - lots of personal angst and female power struggles. Throw in the Aston Martin DB5 and retro gadgets for good measure.

    A reboot with a new actor can't come quick enough for me. Its the one time EON throw out all the stops and try to revert back to basics again.

    Like I said, my expectations are fairly low for this film, so I may be in for a surprise...

    What are the unused Fleming novels that you’re referencing?

    People want the naff brainwashing bits from TMWTGG used, plus bits and pieces from TSWLM etc. It’s mostly dregs, although there might be a couple of bonkers bits from YOLT worth recycling. Most of it isn’t great though.

    Yeah, I’m not seeing the inclusion of the Spang brothers as being something that automatically elevates the film. What’s left of Fleming are bits that would make good scenes, but there aren’t anymore stories aside from Bond reconciling over the death of Tracy, which we kinda got with QOS.

    I think some fans think this is just their own little sandbox they are playing in and forget this is a nearly 60 year legacy that hasn't got by bending the whim to Fleming fanatics wanting every detail of the novel included.

    These films are hugely mainstream enterprises and if these kind of desires are to be seen on the screen it will be in a different medium to the films.

    At some point maybe the books will be adapted for the small screen through one of the big outlets like HBO, Netflix, Amazon or the like but to expect them in these massive huge behemoths like the films is setting yourself up for disappointment.

    They can go back to the spirit of the written word or take inspiration but it is likely that most of all the detail has already been used that they can.

    Look the film isn't out yet and some are already saying it won't be very good, let just wait till it arrives and then you spit your Fleming flavoured dummy out all you like, at least then you'll know if it didn't deliver for you personally.
  • QQ7QQ7 Croatia
    Posts: 371
    Lets be honest here for a second, one of the main reasons why "Skyfall" has reached 1 billion in box office, was because of Adele's theme song and her popularity at that moment.

    If Billie can produce the similar effect, I am okay with her choice.

    I don't like her one bit as a singer, but I still hope that she can produce a Bond worthy song.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Shardlake wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    All I can say is my expectations are pretty low going in to this Bond film, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised when I watch the film.

    With the exception of the news of Zimmer doing the score, there hasn't been much that has excited me with this film.

    1) The trailer felt like this was going to be SPECTRE 2. More of the same from where we last left off. Great news if you loved SP, bad news if you were hoping for another CR.

    2) The interviews in Empire magazine with some of the actors sound just like every Bond film post Cubby - strong females up against Bond, personal angst for Bond (again), etc.

    3) The choice of artist for the song. I bet right here, right now, that this song will rival QoS and DAD as one of the worst songs of the franchise. The writings on the wall...

    4) I think its fairly obvious now that the unused Fleming books are still being untouched and ignored, instead opting for P&W to give us yet another `original' story that will rehash everything we've seen in the Brosnan and Craig era - lots of personal angst and female power struggles. Throw in the Aston Martin DB5 and retro gadgets for good measure.

    A reboot with a new actor can't come quick enough for me. Its the one time EON throw out all the stops and try to revert back to basics again.

    Like I said, my expectations are fairly low for this film, so I may be in for a surprise...

    What are the unused Fleming novels that you’re referencing?

    People want the naff brainwashing bits from TMWTGG used, plus bits and pieces from TSWLM etc. It’s mostly dregs, although there might be a couple of bonkers bits from YOLT worth recycling. Most of it isn’t great though.

    Yeah, I’m not seeing the inclusion of the Spang brothers as being something that automatically elevates the film. What’s left of Fleming are bits that would make good scenes, but there aren’t anymore stories aside from Bond reconciling over the death of Tracy, which we kinda got with QOS.

    I think some fans think this is just their own little sandbox they are playing in and forget this is a nearly 60 year legacy that hasn't got by bending the whim to Fleming fanatics wanting every detail of the novel included.

    These films are hugely mainstream enterprises and if these kind of desires are to be seen on the screen it will be in a different medium to the films.
    .

    You are quite right. Just like the film of CR looked very different to the novel....and yet! It still kept the essence and basis of the novel, while updating it to modern times.

    This ain't rocket science...

  • Posts: 380
    Burgess wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    All I can say is my expectations are pretty low going in to this Bond film, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised when I watch the film.

    With the exception of the news of Zimmer doing the score, there hasn't been much that has excited me with this film.

    1) The trailer felt like this was going to be SPECTRE 2. More of the same from where we last left off. Great news if you loved SP, bad news if you were hoping for another CR.

    2) The interviews in Empire magazine with some of the actors sound just like every Bond film post Cubby - strong females up against Bond, personal angst for Bond (again), etc.

    3) The choice of artist for the song. I bet right here, right now, that this song will rival QoS and DAD as one of the worst songs of the franchise. The writings on the wall...

    4) I think its fairly obvious now that the unused Fleming books are still being untouched and ignored, instead opting for P&W to give us yet another `original' story that will rehash everything we've seen in the Brosnan and Craig era - lots of personal angst and female power struggles. Throw in the Aston Martin DB5 and retro gadgets for good measure.

    A reboot with a new actor can't come quick enough for me. Its the one time EON throw out all the stops and try to revert back to basics again.

    Like I said, my expectations are fairly low for this film, so I may be in for a surprise...

    What are the unused Fleming novels that you’re referencing?

    I thought everyone knew what they were by now. Ok, here goes -

    DAF, MR, TSWLM, YOLT and TMWTGG

    Okay. Here goes:

    TMWTTG has already been adapted in a film of the same name, and in License To Kill and GoldenEye. LTK and GE are films in which the villain is Bond’s mirror self, like Scaramanga in TMWTGG.

    The best parts of Moonraker were adapted in GoldenEye and Die Another Day. Both films feature a “foreign” villain pretending to be a British patriot or hero.

    A direct adaption of The Spy Who Loved Me won’t be adapted per Fleming’s request. Plus, it’s single setting and lower stakes are not the ripest for an adaption, even if it is a good novel.

    “In 1977 the title was used for the tenth film in the Eon Productions series. It was the third to star Roger Moore as British Secret Service agent Commander James Bond. Although Fleming had insisted that no film should contain anything of the plot of the novel, the steel-toothed character of Horror was included, although under the name Jaws.” - Wikipedia

    The most cinematic parts of You Only Live Twice we’re already adapted in a film of the same name. The garden of death sequence works in the book because you’re able to get into Bond’s head. As a straight adaption to film, I don’t think it would work. Also, how do we know that it doesn’t feature in NTTD. We’ll see again, Diamonds Are Forever was adapted into a film of the same name. It features diamond smuggling and the Mob. What else is there?

    Ok, here goes -

    TMWTGG could be done again (properly), including the brainwashed opening, Bond going undercover as Mark Hazard, meeting the villain at a brothel in Jamaica, acting as a bodyguard before being discovered, on a train ride out among the mangrove swamps and seeing a blonde girl tied to the tracks, which leads to the shootout. All that bears only a slight resemblance to LTK, and heaven knows Bond scripts are recycled constantly, with a thinly changed veneer.

    The best part of MR was adapted in GE and DAD? Because of a villain posing as a UK guy? You serious? That alone was the best part of MR? :))

    The game card at Blades? That alone would be worth using, and p!sses all over anything in DAD. Also, the Dover cliff landslide? The car chase?

    TSWLM - I'm sure legal wranglings could be done now. Fleming has been dead for nearly 60 years. And I'd love to see a scene where Bond comes into a Motel and rescues Viv Michel from 2 gangsters. This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with 7 foot Jaws and his steel nashers.

    YOLT - wrong again. Hardly anything from the novel was used (certainly not the best bits). Fans have been clamouring for years for a Shatterhand showdown in the Garden of Death.

    DAF - so the entire book is summarised with diamond smuggling and the mob? That's it? That's the extent of your knowledge of that book? No car chase and then kidnap? No Spectreville Western ghost town? No train chase? No Brooklyn stomping? No horse race? No mud baths?

    There are key scenes, moments, and entire plots that could be worked into at least 3 films with this unused material, and which is still far superior to anything EON have produced since Cubby passed away.


    Anyway, we've digressed slightly. Back on topic... B-)

    What you described are not plots. They’re scenes, sequences, motifs and set pieces. Interesting bits that could be used but those aren’t stories. They don’t have a beginning, middle or end. There’s no character development or character motivation. But as you said we “digressed.”





  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    One HUGE reason am willing to give Eilish a chance is, Eon just got rid of Romer for sounding too Experimental & not Bondian enough. so I don't see why Eon will accept Eilish's song, if it sounded too Experimental & not Bondian enough...even if she's a bigger Celeb than Romer....after all a gargantuan Band like Radiohead had it's song rejected.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Well, pop and rock are dying art forms. I think the line up at Glastonbury this year - a 77 year old guy who wrote a classic Bond song in 73!! (and the last few) really says it all. It's churlish not to say that there isn't talent out their but the pool of talent gets smaller and smaller every year. Previous threads have pointed out how many great singers could have produced classic Bond themes in the 80s. (Just think how fantastic it would be to hear George Michael sing a Bond song - what a voice).

    So to the present. ,there are few singers with the traditional power and a sense of menace that is required IMHO for a classic Bond song. BE reminds me of Sheryl Crowe re an attempt to bring in someone big but not right for the job. No argument she can sing but does it fit with the Bond "sound" if that makes sense. Given the choice, Paloma Faith would have been a good choice but it gets harder and harder with each Bond movie.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I'm not sure what I want from the song quite honestly, I'm just hoping for a good song with a strong melody
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    patb wrote: »
    Well, pop and rock are dying art forms. I think the line up at Glastonbury this year - a 77 year old guy who wrote a classic Bond song in 73!! (and the last few) really says it all. It's churlish not to say that there isn't talent out their but the pool of talent gets smaller and smaller every year. Previous threads have pointed out how many great singers could have produced classic Bond themes in the 80s. (Just think how fantastic it would be to hear George Michael sing a Bond song - what a voice).

    So to the present. ,there are few singers with the traditional power and a sense of menace that is required IMHO for a classic Bond song. BE reminds me of Sheryl Crowe re an attempt to bring in someone big but not right for the job. No argument she can sing but does it fit with the Bond "sound" if that makes sense. Given the choice, Paloma Faith would have been a good choice but it gets harder and harder with each Bond movie.

    I think one of the big reasons pop and rock is a dying art form is that the emphasis has been shifted from charisma, song writing and musicianship over to who has the best singing voice.
    Simon Cowell has damaged popular music immeasurably in my opinion with his shows. Where once the UK was the place to be to hear the best pop/rock stars in the world, now I don't see it so much.
    If David Bowie had entered the X Factor, he wouldn't have got through the auditions. Neither would Paul McCartney or Morrisey or Elton John. Kate Bush would've been laughed off the stage. Even though all of these had the X Factor, it isn't the X Factor Cowell is looking for. He is looking for short term saleability on looks and singing ability. It's sad, but it's also the times we live in.

    There was a live show a few years ago (Queen Jubilee maybe?) featuring McCartney, Elton John and Stevie Wonder. Social media went mad with negative comments because these old men couldn't sing. Yet between them they practically wrote the story of pop music over the last 50 odd years. It was so sad to see the lack of respect or understanding.
    Yet Ariana Grande would come on and belt a tune out and everyone goes crazy.
    Because she fits the Cowell vision of X Factor celebrity.

    It's where we are. I'm glad to occasionally hear someone with a little talent and an identity..like Billie Eilish.

  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Like I said the older you get it is more than likely the main title artist will not be to your liking.

    The nature of what these songs has now has changed, it used to be a case of them being crafted to go with scores as it was a collaborative effort with the composer and the artists song.

    Barry had his hand in all of his themes, Martin did with his as well and so did Hamlisch.

    Arnold had a few times but things have changed and it appears EON uses these as more of a promotional tool for the films.

    Also grabbing the latest artist whether you like it or not and I am grumpy old man as much as the next person over the state of commercial music these days but I am 47 so the artist EON chooses to create this kind of a vibe is unlikely to be to my liking.

    Cornell was somewhat of an oddity amongst the Craig era and the last time that possibly where a composer and an artist will collaborate, we'll see come the next era if this is the case, also Cornell was long past his commercial prime.

    Jack White was the start for this era of grabbing someone who was hot and likely to appeal to an audience outside of the fan base and hopefully generate a hit.

    In all fairness though that was supposed to be Winehouse and Ronson and would have probably been an utter smash had it succeeded. White was drafted in to provide something and he did but not his best work by a long shot.

    Adele was a no brainer and as soon as the film was announced even before the press conference people were saying she should do it, fantastic promotion for the film and an Oscar next year.

    Smith again although it appeared that EON were at one point in the process going to use Radiohead as this was Mendes original choice then with what happened there they returned to the Adele type with hot at them moment Sam Smith and bagged themselves another Oscar.

    Elilish seems to have been Cary F's choice, although BB & MGW still need persuaded, Mendes said that he convinced Barbara about using Radiohead. So when it comes down to it the boss still gets the final word.

    I mean I hated and still do Smith's song but it generated the first Bond song no. 1 in the UK and possibly got his fans in the cinema so what do I know?

    Eilish seems to be a case of good commercial sense but also tapping into the cool crowd, Britney Spears she ain't.

    Despite her age she co writes with her brother and shows more in common with Bjork or Kate Bush in that area due to her ability to have got where she wants on her terms rather then the record companies, lets not forget Bush demanded Wuthering Heights was the lead single from her debut when EMI weren't convinced, we all know how that one played out.

    I might not be being bowled over by her music but I do admire her approach to things, I have much more time for an artist that influences their own trajectory rather than letting a committee dictate it, plus if Thom Yorke admires her although that won't count much for some it makes me take note.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    mtm wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    All I can say is my expectations are pretty low going in to this Bond film, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised when I watch the film.

    With the exception of the news of Zimmer doing the score, there hasn't been much that has excited me with this film.

    1) The trailer felt like this was going to be SPECTRE 2. More of the same from where we last left off. Great news if you loved SP, bad news if you were hoping for another CR.

    2) The interviews in Empire magazine with some of the actors sound just like every Bond film post Cubby - strong females up against Bond, personal angst for Bond (again), etc.

    3) The choice of artist for the song. I bet right here, right now, that this song will rival QoS and DAD as one of the worst songs of the franchise. The writings on the wall...

    4) I think its fairly obvious now that the unused Fleming books are still being untouched and ignored, instead opting for P&W to give us yet another `original' story that will rehash everything we've seen in the Brosnan and Craig era - lots of personal angst and female power struggles. Throw in the Aston Martin DB5 and retro gadgets for good measure.

    A reboot with a new actor can't come quick enough for me. Its the one time EON throw out all the stops and try to revert back to basics again.

    Like I said, my expectations are fairly low for this film, so I may be in for a surprise...

    What are the unused Fleming novels that you’re referencing?

    People want the naff brainwashing bits from TMWTGG used, plus bits and pieces from TSWLM etc. It’s mostly dregs, although there might be a couple of bonkers bits from YOLT worth recycling. Most of it isn’t great though.

    Yeah, I’m not seeing the inclusion of the Spang brothers as being something that automatically elevates the film. What’s left of Fleming are bits that would make good scenes, but there aren’t anymore stories aside from Bond reconciling over the death of Tracy, which we kinda got with QOS.

    Like I said in an earlier post, you could rework the unused Fleming scenes into at least 3 movies, the same way the short stories of OP and TLD were reworked into an entire film, the same way unused key scenes from LALD were reworked into FYEO and LTK.

    It's not all about the Spangs (although I'd love to see a return to gangsters in a Bond film).

    As for stories - Bond going into the Garden of Death, getting amnesia, being brainwashed and returning to London to kill M, going undercover as Mark Hazard to find his man in Jamaica, there is enough material there to plot the basis of 2 films.

    If Cubby and Maibaum were alive today, I'm sure the'd find a way of using this material, instead of retcon crap like Bond and Blofeld being brothers.

    It just doesn't sound very good. Any character getting amnesia is an instant eye-rolling terrible plot. You had to sort of get through it in Bourne because the whole thing was built around it, and even then they had to add loads to it to make audiences swallow it.
  • zerozerozerozero The far far east
    Posts: 58
    Just my two cents' worth but I watched that Carpook Karaoke thing with James Corden and Billie Eilish and was pleasantly surprised. She comes across as very creative, emotionally present in what she does and also savvy for her age.

    I got the impression from the press quote from Barbara Broccoli that Billie Eilish had produced something that got to the heart of the movie. A far cry from the wheedling, lazily-written thing we had from Sam Smith.

    I know that, since Cubby Broccoli passed away, EON has had a habit of making poor musical choices (with the occasional pleasant surprise like Skyfall) but I imagine Billie's song will centre on the emotional core of the film rather than fetishising a 51 year-old. That would just be creepy,
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 380
    I think the moral to take away from all this is that young people can be disrespectful of the past and old people can be dismissive of the present.

    In the end, we all want a film, and particularly, a title song for which we can be proud. Whether that’s achieved through Billie Eilish or Shirley Bassey doesn’t matter to me. If the series is to survive another sixty years then a balance needs to be found between tradition and trend. The series continually needs new fans, or it risks becoming outdated and outpaced. That doesn’t mean Bond’s illustrious past can’t be or shouldn’t be honored too.

    We as fans also have to accept that we will not like every creative decision that EON makes. EON understands that not every creative decision they make turns out to be good. That’s the nature of art. But we should all act in good faith and give every Bond film a fair assessment on its own merits.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    QQ7 wrote: »
    Lets be honest here for a second, one of the main reasons why "Skyfall" has reached 1 billion in box office, was because of Adele's theme song and her popularity at that moment.

    If Billie can produce the similar effect, I am okay with her choice.

    I don't like her one bit as a singer, but I still hope that she can produce a Bond worthy song.

    Yup Adele song did half of it but that's not the Only thing. 50th anniversary celebration and promoting it in Olympics also got people's attention. M's death also got leaked before film's release.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 1,261

    In your ever-so-humble humble opinion. There are plenty of decent scenes from DAF and MR not used, TSWLM in its entirety, the same with YOLT and TMWTGG.

    Give me 007 playing a game of cards at Blades with M to outwit a cheat, being Brooklyn stomped on by football boots, rescuing a damsel in distress at a motel from Horror and Slugsy who work for the Spangled Mob, going after Shatterhand in his garden of death, being brainwashed and returning to London to kill M, going undercover as Mark Hazard in Jamaica, rather than the crap P&W have given us over the years. Blofeld as a brother...? You think that is better?

    No need to answer. The fact that you think a brainwashed Bond trying to kill M is `naff' speaks volumes about your taste.... ;)

    Straying off-topic (sorry for that):

    You probably never will see a truthful adaption of TSWLM. Ian Fleming made it clear, that EON might use the title, but not the novel as such. As for TMWTGG, I read the book and actually am glad, that they came up with a complete new story. Same for MR. And most likely EON will never re-do Fleming novels, as - at least title-wise - they all had been done. And they won't do period-pices, i.e. Bond films set in the 1950's.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Burgess wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    All I can say is my expectations are pretty low going in to this Bond film, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised when I watch the film.

    With the exception of the news of Zimmer doing the score, there hasn't been much that has excited me with this film.

    1) The trailer felt like this was going to be SPECTRE 2. More of the same from where we last left off. Great news if you loved SP, bad news if you were hoping for another CR.

    2) The interviews in Empire magazine with some of the actors sound just like every Bond film post Cubby - strong females up against Bond, personal angst for Bond (again), etc.

    3) The choice of artist for the song. I bet right here, right now, that this song will rival QoS and DAD as one of the worst songs of the franchise. The writings on the wall...

    4) I think its fairly obvious now that the unused Fleming books are still being untouched and ignored, instead opting for P&W to give us yet another `original' story that will rehash everything we've seen in the Brosnan and Craig era - lots of personal angst and female power struggles. Throw in the Aston Martin DB5 and retro gadgets for good measure.

    A reboot with a new actor can't come quick enough for me. Its the one time EON throw out all the stops and try to revert back to basics again.

    Like I said, my expectations are fairly low for this film, so I may be in for a surprise...

    What are the unused Fleming novels that you’re referencing?

    I thought everyone knew what they were by now. Ok, here goes -

    DAF, MR, TSWLM, YOLT and TMWTGG

    Okay. Here goes:

    TMWTTG has already been adapted in a film of the same name, and in License To Kill and GoldenEye. LTK and GE are films in which the villain is Bond’s mirror self, like Scaramanga in TMWTGG.

    The best parts of Moonraker were adapted in GoldenEye and Die Another Day. Both films feature a “foreign” villain pretending to be a British patriot or hero.

    A direct adaption of The Spy Who Loved Me won’t be adapted per Fleming’s request. Plus, it’s single setting and lower stakes are not the ripest for an adaption, even if it is a good novel.

    “In 1977 the title was used for the tenth film in the Eon Productions series. It was the third to star Roger Moore as British Secret Service agent Commander James Bond. Although Fleming had insisted that no film should contain anything of the plot of the novel, the steel-toothed character of Horror was included, although under the name Jaws.” - Wikipedia

    The most cinematic parts of You Only Live Twice we’re already adapted in a film of the same name. The garden of death sequence works in the book because you’re able to get into Bond’s head. As a straight adaption to film, I don’t think it would work. Also, how do we know that it doesn’t feature in NTTD. We’ll see again, Diamonds Are Forever was adapted into a film of the same name. It features diamond smuggling and the Mob. What else is there?

    Ok, here goes -

    TMWTGG could be done again (properly), including the brainwashed opening, Bond going undercover as Mark Hazard, meeting the villain at a brothel in Jamaica, acting as a bodyguard before being discovered, on a train ride out among the mangrove swamps and seeing a blonde girl tied to the tracks, which leads to the shootout. All that bears only a slight resemblance to LTK, and heaven knows Bond scripts are recycled constantly, with a thinly changed veneer.

    The best part of MR was adapted in GE and DAD? Because of a villain posing as a UK guy? You serious? That alone was the best part of MR? :))

    The game card at Blades? That alone would be worth using, and p!sses all over anything in DAD. Also, the Dover cliff landslide? The car chase?

    TSWLM - I'm sure legal wranglings could be done now. Fleming has been dead for nearly 60 years. And I'd love to see a scene where Bond comes into a Motel and rescues Viv Michel from 2 gangsters. This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with 7 foot Jaws and his steel nashers.

    YOLT - wrong again. Hardly anything from the novel was used (certainly not the best bits). Fans have been clamouring for years for a Shatterhand showdown in the Garden of Death.

    DAF - so the entire book is summarised with diamond smuggling and the mob? That's it? That's the extent of your knowledge of that book? No car chase and then kidnap? No Spectreville Western ghost town? No train chase? No Brooklyn stomping? No horse race? No mud baths?

    There are key scenes, moments, and entire plots that could be worked into at least 3 films with this unused material, and which is still far superior to anything EON have produced since Cubby passed away.


    Anyway, we've digressed slightly. Back on topic... B-)

    What you described are not plots. They’re scenes, sequences, motifs and set pieces. Interesting bits that could be used but those aren’t stories. They don’t have a beginning, middle or end. There’s no character development or character motivation. But as you said we “digressed.”


    And I'm fine with that. I'd take set pieces and scenes as the main basis and anchor for a new script (ala TLD and LTK), any day over the crap P&W have served up over the years.

    Anyway, back on topic...
  • Posts: 380
    Burgess wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    All I can say is my expectations are pretty low going in to this Bond film, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised when I watch the film.

    With the exception of the news of Zimmer doing the score, there hasn't been much that has excited me with this film.

    1) The trailer felt like this was going to be SPECTRE 2. More of the same from where we last left off. Great news if you loved SP, bad news if you were hoping for another CR.

    2) The interviews in Empire magazine with some of the actors sound just like every Bond film post Cubby - strong females up against Bond, personal angst for Bond (again), etc.

    3) The choice of artist for the song. I bet right here, right now, that this song will rival QoS and DAD as one of the worst songs of the franchise. The writings on the wall...

    4) I think its fairly obvious now that the unused Fleming books are still being untouched and ignored, instead opting for P&W to give us yet another `original' story that will rehash everything we've seen in the Brosnan and Craig era - lots of personal angst and female power struggles. Throw in the Aston Martin DB5 and retro gadgets for good measure.

    A reboot with a new actor can't come quick enough for me. Its the one time EON throw out all the stops and try to revert back to basics again.

    Like I said, my expectations are fairly low for this film, so I may be in for a surprise...

    What are the unused Fleming novels that you’re referencing?

    I thought everyone knew what they were by now. Ok, here goes -

    DAF, MR, TSWLM, YOLT and TMWTGG

    Okay. Here goes:

    TMWTTG has already been adapted in a film of the same name, and in License To Kill and GoldenEye. LTK and GE are films in which the villain is Bond’s mirror self, like Scaramanga in TMWTGG.

    The best parts of Moonraker were adapted in GoldenEye and Die Another Day. Both films feature a “foreign” villain pretending to be a British patriot or hero.

    A direct adaption of The Spy Who Loved Me won’t be adapted per Fleming’s request. Plus, it’s single setting and lower stakes are not the ripest for an adaption, even if it is a good novel.

    “In 1977 the title was used for the tenth film in the Eon Productions series. It was the third to star Roger Moore as British Secret Service agent Commander James Bond. Although Fleming had insisted that no film should contain anything of the plot of the novel, the steel-toothed character of Horror was included, although under the name Jaws.” - Wikipedia

    The most cinematic parts of You Only Live Twice we’re already adapted in a film of the same name. The garden of death sequence works in the book because you’re able to get into Bond’s head. As a straight adaption to film, I don’t think it would work. Also, how do we know that it doesn’t feature in NTTD. We’ll see again, Diamonds Are Forever was adapted into a film of the same name. It features diamond smuggling and the Mob. What else is there?

    Ok, here goes -

    TMWTGG could be done again (properly), including the brainwashed opening, Bond going undercover as Mark Hazard, meeting the villain at a brothel in Jamaica, acting as a bodyguard before being discovered, on a train ride out among the mangrove swamps and seeing a blonde girl tied to the tracks, which leads to the shootout. All that bears only a slight resemblance to LTK, and heaven knows Bond scripts are recycled constantly, with a thinly changed veneer.

    The best part of MR was adapted in GE and DAD? Because of a villain posing as a UK guy? You serious? That alone was the best part of MR? :))

    The game card at Blades? That alone would be worth using, and p!sses all over anything in DAD. Also, the Dover cliff landslide? The car chase?

    TSWLM - I'm sure legal wranglings could be done now. Fleming has been dead for nearly 60 years. And I'd love to see a scene where Bond comes into a Motel and rescues Viv Michel from 2 gangsters. This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with 7 foot Jaws and his steel nashers.

    YOLT - wrong again. Hardly anything from the novel was used (certainly not the best bits). Fans have been clamouring for years for a Shatterhand showdown in the Garden of Death.

    DAF - so the entire book is summarised with diamond smuggling and the mob? That's it? That's the extent of your knowledge of that book? No car chase and then kidnap? No Spectreville Western ghost town? No train chase? No Brooklyn stomping? No horse race? No mud baths?

    There are key scenes, moments, and entire plots that could be worked into at least 3 films with this unused material, and which is still far superior to anything EON have produced since Cubby passed away.


    Anyway, we've digressed slightly. Back on topic... B-)

    What you described are not plots. They’re scenes, sequences, motifs and set pieces. Interesting bits that could be used but those aren’t stories. They don’t have a beginning, middle or end. There’s no character development or character motivation. But as you said we “digressed.”


    And I'm fine with that. I'd take set pieces and scenes as the main basis and anchor for a new script (ala TLD and LTK), any day over the crap P&W have served up over the years.

    Anyway, back on topic...

    You’ve totally lost me then because isn’t that what P & W already do? We can debate the quality of their work but, given that every (major) Bond title has been adapted, that’s all anyone can do.

  • Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    All I can say is my expectations are pretty low going in to this Bond film, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised when I watch the film.

    With the exception of the news of Zimmer doing the score, there hasn't been much that has excited me with this film.

    1) The trailer felt like this was going to be SPECTRE 2. More of the same from where we last left off. Great news if you loved SP, bad news if you were hoping for another CR.

    2) The interviews in Empire magazine with some of the actors sound just like every Bond film post Cubby - strong females up against Bond, personal angst for Bond (again), etc.

    3) The choice of artist for the song. I bet right here, right now, that this song will rival QoS and DAD as one of the worst songs of the franchise. The writings on the wall...

    4) I think its fairly obvious now that the unused Fleming books are still being untouched and ignored, instead opting for P&W to give us yet another `original' story that will rehash everything we've seen in the Brosnan and Craig era - lots of personal angst and female power struggles. Throw in the Aston Martin DB5 and retro gadgets for good measure.

    A reboot with a new actor can't come quick enough for me. Its the one time EON throw out all the stops and try to revert back to basics again.

    Like I said, my expectations are fairly low for this film, so I may be in for a surprise...

    What are the unused Fleming novels that you’re referencing?

    People want the naff brainwashing bits from TMWTGG used, plus bits and pieces from TSWLM etc. It’s mostly dregs, although there might be a couple of bonkers bits from YOLT worth recycling. Most of it isn’t great though.

    Yeah, I’m not seeing the inclusion of the Spang brothers as being something that automatically elevates the film. What’s left of Fleming are bits that would make good scenes, but there aren’t anymore stories aside from Bond reconciling over the death of Tracy, which we kinda got with QOS.

    Like I said in an earlier post, you could rework the unused Fleming scenes into at least 3 movies, the same way the short stories of OP and TLD were reworked into an entire film, the same way unused key scenes from LALD were reworked into FYEO and LTK.

    It's not all about the Spangs (although I'd love to see a return to gangsters in a Bond film).

    As for stories - Bond going into the Garden of Death, getting amnesia, being brainwashed and returning to London to kill M, going undercover as Mark Hazard to find his man in Jamaica, there is enough material there to plot the basis of 2 films.

    If Cubby and Maibaum were alive today, I'm sure the'd find a way of using this material, instead of retcon crap like Bond and Blofeld being brothers.

    It just doesn't sound very good. Any character getting amnesia is an instant eye-rolling terrible plot. You had to sort of get through it in Bourne because the whole thing was built around it, and even then they had to add loads to it to make audiences swallow it.

    I personally think it could work - if done correctly (and realistically). Hell, CR worked and that was mainly about Bond outwitting another villain across a gambling table.
This discussion has been closed.