Is 'For Your Eyes Only' the most boring James Bond film?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2020 Posts: 16,383
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't have issues with the fact that Bond is/looks much older than Melina. My problem is that Bouquet shows one of the weakest performances of all the bondgirls. During the car chase Bond says something like he's sorry for what happened to her parents. There, Melina doesn't answer but gives me a look that says: “sorry I can't act but I try to stare a bit different now“'.
    Hold on, claiming Bouquet can' t act is a bit of a stretch in my opinion, you should she her in the Luis Buñuel masterpiece Cet obscur objet du désir (aka That Obscure Object of Desire). She later also went on to win a César Award (basically the French film industry Oscars) for another film.

    It does make me laugh a bit when Melina says she’s half-Greek though.
    “Hee keeled ma parontz”
    :D
    But that is not a Bouquet problem, since she was dubbed in FYEO (while dubbing herself for the French version, same as Gert Fröbe did for the German version of GF). Nobody seems to know who gave her the English voice, only that she was in fact dubbed.

    See https://supposedlyfun.com/2014/08/28/the-bond-movie-series-for-your-eyes-only/ and the earlier discussion here: Did Nikki van der Zyl dub Carole Bouquet in For Your Eyes Only?

    Is she? How bizarre. That seems rather archaic by then. I have always sort of thought there was something a bit odd about the way she spoke but I didn't realise they were still doing that by 1981.
  • Posts: 787
    patb wrote: »
    Also, is this the only Bond movie where Bond rejects a sexual encounter on the basis of age gap? ("I'll buy you an ice cream" puts Bond himself in the "Uncle" context and makes the whole audience aware of his age (and we are aware that he is aware) but not in a creative/character arc way. (back to SF)


    This is an important one. I've heard this sort of thing referred to as a problem of film-makers not 'taking care' of their actors. We're meant to like Bond, and ostensibly to like - or at least care about? - Bibi. But neither is at play here.

    For the joke to work, we need to be laughing at the fact that Moore is old. That not doing him much service. We also are going to need to care about Bibi on some level as the film goes on, but here again the crux of the joke is that she's intolerable and childish and so on . . . not really any winners in that moment.
  • Posts: 7,507
    octofinger wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Also, is this the only Bond movie where Bond rejects a sexual encounter on the basis of age gap? ("I'll buy you an ice cream" puts Bond himself in the "Uncle" context and makes the whole audience aware of his age (and we are aware that he is aware) but not in a creative/character arc way. (back to SF)


    This is an important one. I've heard this sort of thing referred to as a problem of film-makers not 'taking care' of their actors. We're meant to like Bond, and ostensibly to like - or at least care about? - Bibi. But neither is at play here.

    For the joke to work, we need to be laughing at the fact that Moore is old. That not doing him much service. We also are going to need to care about Bibi on some level as the film goes on, but here again the crux of the joke is that she's intolerable and childish and so on . . . not really any winners in that moment.

    The Bibi character and her interaction with Bond is truly bizarre. I have no idea why they would think it was a good idea to include her in the film in the first place, let alone with that dialogue.
  • Posts: 4,615
    Its a real contrast because one the the things that charaterizes RM's run as Bond was the fact that his age was not used really as a character arc so it makes his interaction with Bibi all the stranger. Made stranger IMHO in that according to wiki, just 16 months age gap between the two actresses.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited March 2020 Posts: 4,483
    Yes, it is strange that they thought it is a good idea to have Bibi in this movie. Her scenes with Bond are very odd. It is the weakest point of the movie (imo). I had the honour to meet Lynn-Holly Johnson a few month ago. A very likeable Woman and she still has the same sunny smile like she had in 1981. Her acting and her looks were alright, it was really the character itself that didn't fit in the Bond world at all.

    Never heard before that Milena was dubbed in the original version!? Why would they still give her a french accent?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    patb wrote: »
    Its a real contrast because one the the things that charaterizes RM's run as Bond was the fact that his age was not used really as a character arc so it makes his interaction with Bibi all the stranger. Made stranger IMHO in that according to wiki, just 16 months age gap between the two actresses.

    Haha! Is that right? That's wonderful. James has a very strictly defined boundary! :)
  • Posts: 230
    mtm wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Its a real contrast because one the the things that charaterizes RM's run as Bond was the fact that his age was not used really as a character arc so it makes his interaction with Bibi all the stranger. Made stranger IMHO in that according to wiki, just 16 months age gap between the two actresses.

    Haha! Is that right? That's wonderful. James has a very strictly defined boundary! :)

    The fact that there was only a 16-month gap in the actresses' age is not as important as the implied ages in the film. FYEO was cleary depicting Bibi as a minor.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Its a real contrast because one the the things that charaterizes RM's run as Bond was the fact that his age was not used really as a character arc so it makes his interaction with Bibi all the stranger. Made stranger IMHO in that according to wiki, just 16 months age gap between the two actresses.

    Haha! Is that right? That's wonderful. James has a very strictly defined boundary! :)

    The fact that there was only a 16-month gap in the actresses' age is not as important as the implied ages in the film. FYEO was cleary depicting Bibi as a minor.

    Yes, that's how I've always seen it as well.
  • Posts: 1,469
    Interesting convo re: the dubbing. I didn't know, as j_w_pepper wrote, that Corinne's voice was dubbed. And it seems that voice actress dubbed for a lot of Bond films!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_van_der_Zyl#Background_and_Bond_films_voice_work

    Meanwhile while Googling for this, I saw an IMDb trivia page for MR that says this! Remember this old discussion?

    "Although everybody remembers Dolly (Blanche Ravalec) wearing braces in the scene where she meets Jaws for the first time, she doesn't wear braces at all. NOTE: Actually, the original release of the movie in theaters, on television, and its subsequent release on VHS, she had braces when they first meet, but she didn't later on in the movie, which created a continuity error. The remastered releases on DVD and Blu-ray "fixed" this error by digitally removing them from the first time the two characters meet. YouTube has a few clips from the television broadcasts that clearly show her wearing braces, as well as clips from the remastered DVD and Blu-ray versions where they have been digitally erased."
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079574/trivia
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Why is it gross and creepy? Its not uncommon that young women find older men attractive.And Moore wasnt THAT old at the time.

    Roger Moore was 54 and Carole Bouquet 24.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Its a real contrast because one the the things that charaterizes RM's run as Bond was the fact that his age was not used really as a character arc so it makes his interaction with Bibi all the stranger. Made stranger IMHO in that according to wiki, just 16 months age gap between the two actresses.

    Haha! Is that right? That's wonderful. James has a very strictly defined boundary! :)

    The fact that there was only a 16-month gap in the actresses' age is not as important as the implied ages in the film. FYEO was cleary depicting Bibi as a minor.

    Just a joke, dear.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2020 Posts: 16,383
    Thrasos wrote: »
    Interesting convo re: the dubbing. I didn't know, as j_w_pepper wrote, that Corinne's voice was dubbed. And it seems that voice actress dubbed for a lot of Bond films!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_van_der_Zyl#Background_and_Bond_films_voice_work

    Meanwhile while Googling for this, I saw an IMDb trivia page for MR that says this! Remember this old discussion?

    "Although everybody remembers Dolly (Blanche Ravalec) wearing braces in the scene where she meets Jaws for the first time, she doesn't wear braces at all. NOTE: Actually, the original release of the movie in theaters, on television, and its subsequent release on VHS, she had braces when they first meet, but she didn't later on in the movie, which created a continuity error. The remastered releases on DVD and Blu-ray "fixed" this error by digitally removing them from the first time the two characters meet. YouTube has a few clips from the television broadcasts that clearly show her wearing braces, as well as clips from the remastered DVD and Blu-ray versions where they have been digitally erased."
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079574/trivia

    Gosh that’s not true at all, imdb really does have to be taken with a pinch of salt, doesn’t it?
  • Posts: 1,917
    Is Bibi's age ever clearly given, even in the script? If so, why does she tell Kreigler they'll have a drink at the finish of the biathlon? Was he or Bond supposed to get the drink for her or was she trying to be more grown up?
  • Posts: 1,394
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Why is it gross and creepy? Its not uncommon that young women find older men attractive.And Moore wasnt THAT old at the time.

    Roger Moore was 54 and Carole Bouquet 24.

    Yes shes young but Rog at 54 is hardly pension age.And its actually quite common in real life that men of that age ( and even older ) score with hot young women ( Especially if they are rich and look as good as Roger did back then ).Just look at Dennis Quaid.Hes 64 and hes engaged to a hot 26 year old blonde.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Why is it gross and creepy? Its not uncommon that young women find older men attractive.And Moore wasnt THAT old at the time.

    Roger Moore was 54 and Carole Bouquet 24.

    Yes shes young but Rog at 54 is hardly pension age.And its actually quite common in real life that men of that age ( and even older ) score with hot young women ( Especially if they are rich and look as good as Roger did back then ).Just look at Dennis Quaid.Hes 64 and hes engaged to a hot 26 year old blonde.

    Ugh!! <shivers> :D
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Why is it gross and creepy? Its not uncommon that young women find older men attractive.And Moore wasnt THAT old at the time.

    Roger Moore was 54 and Carole Bouquet 24.

    Yes shes young but Rog at 54 is hardly pension age.And its actually quite common in real life that men of that age ( and even older ) score with hot young women ( Especially if they are rich and look as good as Roger did back then ).Just look at Dennis Quaid.Hes 64 and hes engaged to a hot 26 year old blonde.

    Except for his underwater breathing face. ;)
  • Posts: 230
    mtm wrote: »
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Its a real contrast because one the the things that charaterizes RM's run as Bond was the fact that his age was not used really as a character arc so it makes his interaction with Bibi all the stranger. Made stranger IMHO in that according to wiki, just 16 months age gap between the two actresses.

    Haha! Is that right? That's wonderful. James has a very strictly defined boundary! :)

    The fact that there was only a 16-month gap in the actresses' age is not as important as the implied ages in the film. FYEO was cleary depicting Bibi as a minor.

    Just a joke, dear.

    It didn't come across as such. That could be legit point somebody could make. Dear.
  • Posts: 230
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Is Bibi's age ever clearly given, even in the script? If so, why does she tell Kreigler they'll have a drink at the finish of the biathlon? Was he or Bond supposed to get the drink for her or was she trying to be more grown up?

    What was the legal drinking age in Italy in 1981? 16?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Why is it gross and creepy? Its not uncommon that young women find older men attractive.And Moore wasnt THAT old at the time.

    Roger Moore was 54 and Carole Bouquet 24.

    Yes shes young but Rog at 54 is hardly pension age.And its actually quite common in real life that men of that age ( and even older ) score with hot young women ( Especially if they are rich and look as good as Roger did back then ).Just look at Dennis Quaid.Hes 64 and hes engaged to a hot 26 year old blonde.

    That's creepy as hell.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Its a real contrast because one the the things that charaterizes RM's run as Bond was the fact that his age was not used really as a character arc so it makes his interaction with Bibi all the stranger. Made stranger IMHO in that according to wiki, just 16 months age gap between the two actresses.

    Haha! Is that right? That's wonderful. James has a very strictly defined boundary! :)

    The fact that there was only a 16-month gap in the actresses' age is not as important as the implied ages in the film. FYEO was cleary depicting Bibi as a minor.

    Just a joke, dear.

    It didn't come across as such. That could be legit point somebody could make. Dear.

    Not even with the smile and the way I actually laughed at it? I'm not sure how to give you any more clues ;) :D I'll write 'THIS IS A JOKE' on it next time, just for you ;)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2020 Posts: 16,383
    echo wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Why is it gross and creepy? Its not uncommon that young women find older men attractive.And Moore wasnt THAT old at the time.

    Roger Moore was 54 and Carole Bouquet 24.

    Yes shes young but Rog at 54 is hardly pension age.And its actually quite common in real life that men of that age ( and even older ) score with hot young women ( Especially if they are rich and look as good as Roger did back then ).Just look at Dennis Quaid.Hes 64 and hes engaged to a hot 26 year old blonde.

    Except for his underwater breathing face. ;)

    Haha! I like the way all of his wrinkles are sort of forced up into the face mask in the underwater hoovering scene: it's quite an effective facelift... as long as you don't look inside the mask! :D

    (STLCards3: THIS IS A JOKE)
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 230
    mtm wrote: »
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Its a real contrast because one the the things that charaterizes RM's run as Bond was the fact that his age was not used really as a character arc so it makes his interaction with Bibi all the stranger. Made stranger IMHO in that according to wiki, just 16 months age gap between the two actresses.

    Haha! Is that right? That's wonderful. James has a very strictly defined boundary! :)

    The fact that there was only a 16-month gap in the actresses' age is not as important as the implied ages in the film. FYEO was cleary depicting Bibi as a minor.

    Just a joke, dear.

    It didn't come across as such. That could be legit point somebody could make. Dear.

    Not even with the smile and the way I actually laughed at it? I'm not sure how to give you any more clues ;) :D I'll write 'THIS IS A JOKE' on it next time, just for you ;)

    I thought you were casually mocking the idea that Bond had an age boundary with the smiley face. I knew you were speaking in jest - I thought you were doing so about something different.
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 1,469
    I'm making my way through the film. I had to question, at the ski jump, why Kriegler pulls back with his gun and not shoot at Bond, even though he thinks Claus (Charles Dance) may be too close, though he doesn't appear to be that close, that is, if Kriegler is such an expert shot and able to judge movement and how fast they're going. They should have had him get at least one shot off. And then after Bond bumps Claus out of the way, Kriegler has another chance and blows it--luckily for us Bond fans of course. But soon all that is forgotten as the ski chase becomes the chase on the bobsled run--man, it must've been tough for the stuntman to keep upright on those skis. Have to say I like John Glen's directing in this film.

    Actually, just thinking, maybe Kriegler blew his shots because he'd seen Bond with Bibi earlier and was suddenly in awe of Bond's ability to attract her, and maybe he'd already heard that Bond was working with Melina, another younger woman.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    Thrasos wrote: »
    I'm making my way through the film. I had to question, at the ski jump, why Kriegler pulls back with his gun and not shoot at Bond, even though he thinks Claus (Charles Dance) may be too close, though he doesn't appear to be that close, that is, if Kriegler is such an expert shot and able to judge movement and how fast they're going. They should have had him get at least one shot off. And then after Bond bumps Claus out of the way, Kriegler has another chance and blows it--luckily for us Bond fans of course. But soon all that is forgotten as the ski chase becomes the chase on the bobsled run--man, it must've been tough for the stuntman to keep upright on those skis. Have to say I like John Glen's directing in this film.

    Actually, just thinking, maybe Kriegler blew his shots because he'd seen Bond with Bibi earlier and was suddenly in awe of Bond's ability to attract her, and maybe he'd already heard that Bond was working with Melina, another younger woman.

    Yeah I wonder about that too, it is odd why he doesn’t shoot. I’m pretty sure just before that he’s seen getting on one of the motorbikes, then suddenly he’s in the car with his rifle. They’re not very organised! :D
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 25
    edit - never mind
  • Posts: 1,394
    I would say that QOS is easily the most boring Bond film.Not FYEO.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I’d give the boring title more to TND/TWINE.
  • Posts: 3,327
    I’d give the boring title more to TND/TWINE.

    +1
  • edited April 2020 Posts: 3,327
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I would say that QOS is easily the most boring Bond film.Not FYEO.

    I don't agree with that. The one thing QoS is not is boring. Its much shorter, compact, far more locations, a lot more action, all crammed in to a tight film, with ridiculously tight editing in parts.

    There is a lot of criticism you could throw at QoS - (too much action, too fact edit cuts, can't see whats going on, too Bourne-like, too violent, too cold, etc.) but being boring is not accurately one of them.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    I’d give the boring title more to TND/TWINE.

    +1

    Agree. Yawn.
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I would say that QOS is easily the most boring Bond film.Not FYEO.

    I don't agree with that. The one thing QoS is not is boring. Its much shorter, compact, far more locations, a lot more action, all crammed in to a tight film, with ridiculously tight editing in parts.

    There is a lot of criticism you could throw at QoS - (too much action, too fact edit cuts, can't see whats going on, too Bourne-like, too violent, too cold, etc.) but being boring is not accurately one of them.

    +1
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