And the Klebbie goes to...Worst execution of a good idea page 147

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  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,592
    Not a fan of FYEO. So my vote goes to that.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,306
    QoS gets my vote.

    Although I would have strongly considered LALD and TMWTGG.
  • I disagree with FYEO being on this list. The sight of Bond at Tracy's grave -- and Roger's exchange with the priest who informs him that he's wanted at the "office" -- makes this one of my favorite pre-title sequences. And the helicopter scene that follows is quite effective. I don't even mind the line about the delicatessen in stainless steel.

    The shaky, barely coherent editing of QoS makes it a strong contender for the Klebbie here. But DAF gets my vote. Bond strangling a woman with her own bikini top is just kind of icky... the poor delivery of a one-word response (Ca-ca-ca-Cairo!) is (please forgive me) "ca-ca" to my ears... and the yucky mud-pie sequence all combine to leave me utterly cold to this PTS.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,178
    I like all of those pre title sequences, so the worst of a good bunch...

    Bond is saved by the bell in DAD
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited May 2020 Posts: 4,521
    Die Another Day

    FYEO and QOS are my favorite.
  • Posts: 2,918
    Going though the nominees...

    DAF has its problems, but I think strangling someone with their bra is a clever idea, especially if you like black humor. Plus I like the eerie visual of "Blofeld" and his doubles drowning in mud (a callback to the mudbath in the novel?), the genuinely brutal fight scene (with Bond using scalpels as throwing knives), and the satisfied purr in Connery's voice when he says "Welcome to hell Blofeld." Plus the screaming cat is a great segue into to the titles. A very memorable and mostly good title sequence.

    FYEO's title sequence is marred only toward the very end, when Blofeld suddenly turns into a comedic coward. That's not quite enough to wreck everything that went before, such as Bond visiting his wife's grave and hanging out of a rogue chopper.

    DAD does feature Bond surfing, but the action is credible and gives us the rare sight of Bond being rumbled and defeated on a mission. On a technical and storytelling level it's well done and a reminder that DAD doesn't fall apart until the ice palace.

    The YOLT pre-titles might not make sense, but the images are unforgettable, especially the astronaut's lifeline being cut by Spectre's craft. Pauline Kael wrote this better expressed the terror of death in space than anything in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

    The pre-title sequence of QOS by contrast has no unforgettable imagery, no clever gimmicks, and already looks dated thanks to its Bourne knock-off editing. It can have the Klebbie.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited May 2020 Posts: 4,483
    DAF, such a disappointing PTS!
    The ones from QOS and FYEO are good, DAD isn't bad at all either. The only other weak one here is YOLT. I would have nominated OP and LALD but DAF is definitely the worst.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,436
    Great thoughts! Some of these wouldn't have been on my list so I am happy to have a different point of view here. Of the nominated films I would select...geez this is tougher then I thought. I have bits in all of the films I like.

    I will say QOS gets it from me. From an editing point of view and the fact that the action just ends with no real rhyme or reason.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    I agree with what seems to be the majority so far. The QoS PTS has absolutely no redeeming value, except for the few seconds of initial camera sweep across the lake. The remainder is just a waste of film (or was it digital? Anyway, you get the gist), due to the abominable editing. The other four are solid gold in comparison.
  • Posts: 7,438
    Ridiculous that QOS is on that list! One of the best.
    No question that its Dire Another Day!
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    Kind of love the division QOS is causing. I like it a lot.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,436
    Kind of love the division QOS is causing. I like it a lot.

    It seems to divide lots of people on here! I have grown to like it for what it is. Yes it's a messy film but it has some great scenes.
  • Tokoloshe2Tokoloshe2 Northern Ireland
    Posts: 1,175
    DAF is bottom of my list in most respects, including for PTS so it gets my vote here. Especially dismal after the epic ending to OHMSS.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    DAF. I've grown to enjoy the camp of DAF, but the PTS just doesn't hit for me on the jokes. That along with completely taking the punch out of the previous film's ending makes my vote for Klebbie go to DAF.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited May 2020 Posts: 7,553
    I'm not sure if I've officially voted yet or not, but my vote is DAF.

    Isn't the PTS of DAD the best part? I love how along with this, there's a thread called "Is the first 30 minutes of DAD perfection?". I also don't understand the "saved by the bell" reference.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,436
    I'm not sure if I've officially voted yet or not, but my vote is DAF.

    Isn't the PTS of DAD the best part? I love how along with this, there's a thread called "Is the first 30 minutes of DAD perfection?". I also don't understand the "saved by the bell" reference.

    The quip is said by Bond at the end of the hovercraft going over the falls.
  • edited May 2020 Posts: 572
    What is wrong with people? The first several seconds of QOS is masterful and I love how it cuts to the roar of the AM without music on top of it. That in itself should unqualify QOS from a Klebbie, despite folks' inability to keep track with what follows. I understand the distaste but never had an issue with the fast pace editing and could follow it from the get go.

    LALD definitely deserves to be a candidate.

    Regardless, DAF gets my vote. I absolutely can't stand "Ca-ca-cairo," the horribly unrealistic instadeath by mud spray, and "kill him" as Blofeld just stands behind Bond watching him. That's not to mention that somehow after the one-punch he gets the goon to give an answer despite the other goons around him... On top of that, it couldn't have shat on OHMSS any better. Really poorly contrived and executed.
  • Posts: 698
    Bond makes mud pies in DAF.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    JamesStock wrote: »
    What is wrong with people? The first several seconds of QOS is masterful and I love how it cuts to the roar of the AM without music on top of it. That in itself should unqualify QOS from a Klebbie, despite folks' inability to keep track with what follows. I understand the distaste but never had an issue with the fast pace editing and could follow it from the get go.

    LALD definitely deserves to be a candidate.

    Regardless, DAF gets my vote. I absolutely can't stand "Ca-ca-cairo," the horribly unrealistic instadeath by mud spray, and "kill him" as Blofeld just stands behind Bond watching him. That's not to mention that somehow after the one-punch he gets the goon to give an answer despite the other goons around him... On top of that, it couldn't have shat on OHMSS any better. Really poorly contrived and executed.

    Definitely agree here.

    QOS is masterful. The shot exchanges of Como lake and the soundless Aston close-ups as a build-up to a frantic chase between two of the most beautiful car manufacturers ever to have existed surely can't be on a list with DAF's sloppy dubbing and clumsy fight choreography? Or DAD's poor CGI close-ups?
  • John3John3 The Netherlands
    Posts: 17
    Bond making mud pies in DAF
  • Without being atrocious, my vote nevertheless goes to FYEO. Again, it's a bad scene in itself, but it really seems out of place for me. While the rest of the film minimizes farcical elements by being down to earth, this whole sequence is laughable. This owes a lot to the representation of Blofeld, I think, willfully ridiculous. I fully understand what the intentions were by shooting such PTS, but that seems contradictory to the rest of the film (with the exception of Tracy's tomb).

    Hence the fact that my vote goes to this sequence: the other nominees are consistent with their respective films and could not be integrated into another instalment. It is impossible to judge them individually without questioning the intentions of their film more broadly. Thus coming back to FYEO for which this is not the case. If the sequence has been cinematographically more colorful, it could have worked in Octopussy, and would even have been more consistent there.
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    Posts: 280
    If Blofeld had been more serious in FYEO's PTS, it would've been one of the best.
  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    Posts: 2,426
    The vote from the DRP goes to DAF, we hate following the crowd but what can you do with a PTS like that!
  • Posts: 4,044
    Did audiences at the time turn up to see DAF and leave disappointed that OHMSS hadn’t been followed up?

    Anyway YOLT for me
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    JamesStock wrote: »
    What is wrong with people? The first several seconds of QOS is masterful and I love how it cuts to the roar of the AM without music on top of it. That in itself should unqualify QOS from a Klebbie, despite folks' inability to keep track with what follows. I understand the distaste but never had an issue with the fast pace editing and could follow it from the get go.

    LALD definitely deserves to be a candidate.

    Regardless, DAF gets my vote. I absolutely can't stand "Ca-ca-cairo," the horribly unrealistic instadeath by mud spray, and "kill him" as Blofeld just stands behind Bond watching him. That's not to mention that somehow after the one-punch he gets the goon to give an answer despite the other goons around him... On top of that, it couldn't have shat on OHMSS any better. Really poorly contrived and executed.

    Definitely agree here.

    QOS is masterful. The shot exchanges of Como lake and the soundless Aston close-ups as a build-up to a frantic chase between two of the most beautiful car manufacturers ever to have existed surely can't be on a list with DAF's sloppy dubbing and clumsy fight choreography? Or DAD's poor CGI close-ups?

    I just imagine some people watching thinking, "Wait, wait, slow down with this car chase! I'm totally confused about what's happening!" Then watching YOLT and thinking "Oh, they've staged Bond's death in private and there's spaceships! Awesome!" Very odd.

    The action in the QoS makes complete sense, and I love the editing. It's the car chase equivalent of an OHMSS fistfight. Cut the fat and make the viewer feel like they're in it.

    And that explosion-free destruction of the car going off the edge is a beautiful thing.

    Oh, and "Time to Get Out" is my favorite piece of Arnold music.

    Surprised nobody has named Thunderball as a rather idiotic PTS that is conspicuous by its absence here...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2020 Posts: 16,428
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    JamesStock wrote: »
    What is wrong with people? The first several seconds of QOS is masterful and I love how it cuts to the roar of the AM without music on top of it. That in itself should unqualify QOS from a Klebbie, despite folks' inability to keep track with what follows. I understand the distaste but never had an issue with the fast pace editing and could follow it from the get go.

    LALD definitely deserves to be a candidate.

    Regardless, DAF gets my vote. I absolutely can't stand "Ca-ca-cairo," the horribly unrealistic instadeath by mud spray, and "kill him" as Blofeld just stands behind Bond watching him. That's not to mention that somehow after the one-punch he gets the goon to give an answer despite the other goons around him... On top of that, it couldn't have shat on OHMSS any better. Really poorly contrived and executed.

    Definitely agree here.

    QOS is masterful. The shot exchanges of Como lake and the soundless Aston close-ups as a build-up to a frantic chase between two of the most beautiful car manufacturers ever to have existed surely can't be on a list with DAF's sloppy dubbing and clumsy fight choreography? Or DAD's poor CGI close-ups?

    I just imagine some people watching thinking, "Wait, wait, slow down with this car chase! I'm totally confused about what's happening!" Then watching YOLT and thinking "Oh, they've staged Bond's death in private and there's spaceships! Awesome!" Very odd.

    I think you think there's an obvious logical fallacy there but it's not as obvious as you think.

    The QoS PTS does look nice and has a lovely opening, but then it gets a bit hard to follow, the logic is all over the place, you have to remember from the previous film that came out two years ago that Bond has a machine gun with him, innocent people get hurt (bit of a Bond no-no) and it feels so hacked up into pieces that the conclusion to the whole chase just suddenly happens without any buildup to there being a climax at all, plus Bond ends it by just shooting them with his gun- nothing clever at all. It's all very unsatisfying and feels like it hasn't been thought about.
    Mark Higgins the stunt driver was saying in an interview only the other day that they shot a lot more to that chase and you can believe it- what's left looks edited to the nines.

    And that's ignoring that I remember finding the launch into the car chase to be a bit too jolting. I need some sort of introduction to the film, as to why something is happening. It's taking too much out to have it open directly on full-bore, tight close-up action when you haven't really got your bearings in the audience yet. Brave maybe, but I don't think it works. It's too cold of an open.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited May 2020 Posts: 5,436
    ]I am being handed the envelope...wait while I put on my coke bottle glasses. I see the results. The Klebbie for worst PTS goes to Bond makes mud pies from DAF! It received 11 votes from the academy!

    The rest of the voting reveals the following:

    Our man in Hong Kong is working on it from YOLT received 4 votes
    Bond has valuable cargo in the boot from QOS received 7 votes
    Bond is saved by the bell in DAD received 4 votes
    Blofeld offers a stainless steel delicatessen receiving 2 votes

    Lets stay with the Klebbie and go with worst wardrobe malfunction by James Bond! The nominees are:
    • Bond wears blue terry cloth in Miami from GF
    • Bond wears a safari suit in Brazil from MR
    • Bond has a shrinking suit while watching Jinx CGI jump from DAD
    • Bond is mellow yellow on the ski slopes from TSWLM
    • Academy Write In vote so far Baby Blue Bond from LALD and Bond's out of this world space suit have been written in noms!

    Yes you are reading it right. The Dove can only come up with 4 nominees but I am sure that the esteemed academy has fashion police who might have another fashion faux pas by our favourite secret agent. So feel free to write in a vote for your worst James Bond fashion blunder. The outfit is for James Bond and not for any other characters.

    Time to wear I meant hear from the academy! ;)
  • Among the outfits mentioned, I think my vote would go to safari suit. However, there is, in my opinion, an even worst wardrobe malfunction: the blue leisure suit from LALD:
    Leisure-Suit.jpg
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    JamesStock wrote: »
    What is wrong with people? The first several seconds of QOS is masterful and I love how it cuts to the roar of the AM without music on top of it. That in itself should unqualify QOS from a Klebbie, despite folks' inability to keep track with what follows. I understand the distaste but never had an issue with the fast pace editing and could follow it from the get go.

    LALD definitely deserves to be a candidate.

    Regardless, DAF gets my vote. I absolutely can't stand "Ca-ca-cairo," the horribly unrealistic instadeath by mud spray, and "kill him" as Blofeld just stands behind Bond watching him. That's not to mention that somehow after the one-punch he gets the goon to give an answer despite the other goons around him... On top of that, it couldn't have shat on OHMSS any better. Really poorly contrived and executed.

    Definitely agree here.

    QOS is masterful. The shot exchanges of Como lake and the soundless Aston close-ups as a build-up to a frantic chase between two of the most beautiful car manufacturers ever to have existed surely can't be on a list with DAF's sloppy dubbing and clumsy fight choreography? Or DAD's poor CGI close-ups?

    I just imagine some people watching thinking, "Wait, wait, slow down with this car chase! I'm totally confused about what's happening!" Then watching YOLT and thinking "Oh, they've staged Bond's death in private and there's spaceships! Awesome!" Very odd.

    I think you think there's an obvious logical fallacy there but it's not as obvious as you think.

    The QoS PTS does look nice and has a lovely opening, but then it gets a bit hard to follow, the logic is all over the place, you have to remember from the previous film that came out two years ago that Bond has a machine gun with him, innocent people get hurt (bit of a Bond no-no) and it feels so hacked up into pieces that the conclusion to the whole chase just suddenly happens without any buildup to there being a climax at all, plus Bond ends it by just shooting them with his gun- nothing clever at all. It's all very unsatisfying and feels like it hasn't been thought about.
    Mark Higgins the stunt driver was saying in an interview only the other day that they shot a lot more to that chase and you can believe it- what's left looks edited to the nines.

    And that's ignoring that I remember finding the launch into the car chase to be a bit too jolting. I need some sort of introduction to the film, as to why something is happening. It's taking too much out to have it open directly on full-bore, tight close-up action when you haven't really got your bearings in the audience yet. Brave maybe, but I don't think it works. It's too cold of an open.

    I have no doubt they shot a hell of a lot more than five minutes of footage for that car chase. And I'm sure if Mark Higgins had directed and edited it we would have seen more of that footage and more people would have been able to follow the complicated car chase.

    Editing aside, I think it's common for a PTS to not make it clear what's going on until a few minutes in (GF), after the title sequence (LALD), or not at all (MR).

    Also, I'm not sure it's necessary to remember Bond has a machine gun with him. If someone doesn't recall the previous film (or indeed if they can't follow the editing), then they are definitely going to have a hard time with QoS, but I don't see why a machine gun needs to be explained to anyone. Timed explosives, a harpoon in his ski pole, a fake horse butt, there's no telling what Bond will have in the PTS.

    Obviously people just like different things. I really love the rush of this PTS, and its sudden ending. I never had any trouble following the cause and effect in the action in a general way, and in a more specific way it's easier upon second viewing.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Bond s spacesuit in MR.
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