Coronavirus Discussion

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,264
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Probably. 😉 But yeah, I will happily accept my vaccine when it comes.

    My main problem is thay take way too long to organise that. Western nations have become decadent...
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    Probably. 😉 But yeah, I will happily accept my vaccine when it comes.

    My main problem is thay take way too long to organise that. Western nations have become decadent...

    'The West is decadent and divided...'
  • edited March 2021 Posts: 1,314
    When I read about these people and their views I do think to myself “but would we miss them....”

    We aren’t too far from witchcraft, suspicion and the dark ages really. It’s probably an inbuilt primal instinct to be suspicious, particularly if you are of below average intelligence.

    The problem of unintelligent people is that they don’t have the capacity to question or realise the limitations of their own capacity to think.

    If that sounds snobby. Good.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,133
    It's been five weeks since I had my Vaccine and I am fine, fit as a fiddle.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,040
    It's been five weeks since I had my Vaccine and I am fine, fit as a fiddle.

    Lucky you. Seems like our government/administration "has its problems" with the vaccinations (aka, is goofing it). As I may have mentioned above, by the priority of the vaccination plan, my turn won't come before the end of April. Let's see how it will develop.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited March 2021 Posts: 25,133
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    It's been five weeks since I had my Vaccine and I am fine, fit as a fiddle.

    Lucky you. Seems like our government/administration "has its problems" with the vaccinations (aka, is goofing it). As I may have mentioned above, by the priority of the vaccination plan, my turn won't come before the end of April. Let's see how it will develop.

    Vaccines response is something the UK got right, recent positive news about efficacy is encouraging also. Numbers death/infections are dropping here 20 million plus have had there first Vaccine Dose.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    It's been five weeks since I had my Vaccine and I am fine, fit as a fiddle.

    Lucky you. Seems like our government/administration "has its problems" with the vaccinations (aka, is goofing it). As I may have mentioned above, by the priority of the vaccination plan, my turn won't come before the end of April. Let's see how it will develop.

    Vaccines response is something the UK got right, recent positive news about efficacy is encouraging also. Numbers death/infections are dropping here 20 million plus have had there first Vaccine Dose.

    That's the good news, isn't it? The ones who were vaccinated in my country (80+) are no longer seen in the IC units. The vaccines really do work! It's truly encouraging. But when I'll be able to get mine, remains to be seen. I'm patient, though.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,133
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    It's been five weeks since I had my Vaccine and I am fine, fit as a fiddle.

    Lucky you. Seems like our government/administration "has its problems" with the vaccinations (aka, is goofing it). As I may have mentioned above, by the priority of the vaccination plan, my turn won't come before the end of April. Let's see how it will develop.

    Vaccines response is something the UK got right, recent positive news about efficacy is encouraging also. Numbers death/infections are dropping here 20 million plus have had there first Vaccine Dose.

    That's the good news, isn't it? The ones who were vaccinated in my country (80+) are no longer seen in the IC units. The vaccines really do work! It's truly encouraging. But when I'll be able to get mine, remains to be seen. I'm patient, though.

    I feel lucky to have got mine though its very much down to my job, though I do recognise I am fortunate to have the Vaccine and be working.

    I have friends in Lockdown who have been out of work for months/a year; I can't imagine what its be like for them and how they have perceived the whole pandemic from there situation.

    The truth is not much has really changed for me and I have information and training provided to me frequently and have a very strong support network.

    I hope those that are waiting for vaccines get them soon.
  • Posts: 5,994
    Meanwhile, in my département, the préfet has decided that masks would be mandatory in the streets everywhere :

    https://www.leparisien.fr/yvelines-78/covid-cette-fois-le-masque-est-obligatoire-partout-dans-les-yvelines-sans-exception-02-03-2021-8426894.php

    Which means that, after wearing it for seven hours straight at work, I'm still forced to ear it when I go home, or when I go everywhere. There's only one phrase that applies to that situation :

    Kaoc'h ki gwenn kac'het gant ur c'hi du !!!!

    Ahem ! Pardon my Breton.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,264
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    It's been five weeks since I had my Vaccine and I am fine, fit as a fiddle.

    Lucky you. Seems like our government/administration "has its problems" with the vaccinations (aka, is goofing it). As I may have mentioned above, by the priority of the vaccination plan, my turn won't come before the end of April. Let's see how it will develop.

    Vaccines response is something the UK got right, recent positive news about efficacy is encouraging also. Numbers death/infections are dropping here 20 million plus have had there first Vaccine Dose.

    That's the good news, isn't it? The ones who were vaccinated in my country (80+) are no longer seen in the IC units. The vaccines really do work! It's truly encouraging. But when I'll be able to get mine, remains to be seen. I'm patient, though.

    Yep, same here, both are doing fine!
  • edited March 2021 Posts: 5,994
    Well, about that vaccine : The Astra Zeneca one has caused a few thrombosises, and its use has been suspended in a few countries, including, as of today, France. As vaccinations went on at a snail's pace, and stocks are not sufficient to vaccinate everybody, even people at risk like me (61, and suffering from high blood pressure), I don't know when I'll be getting my shot(s).

    https://www.snopes.com/ap/2021/03/15/astrazeneca-vaccine-europe-suspend/

    Oh, and there is talk of a week-end lockdown in Paris and its suburbs (where I live, BTW). So not optimistic on that front either. Ah well, "Keep calm and Carry On", they say.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Gerard wrote: »
    Well, about that vaccine : The Astra Zeneca one has caused a few thrombosises, and its use has been suspended in a few countries, including, as of today, France. As vaccinations went on at a snail's pace, and stocks are not sufficient to vaccinate everybody, even people at risk like me (61, and suffering from high blood pressure), I don't know when I'll be getting my shot(s).

    https://www.snopes.com/ap/2021/03/15/astrazeneca-vaccine-europe-suspend/

    Oh, and there is talk of a week-end lockdown in Paris and its suburbs (where I live, BTW). So not optimistic on that front either. Ah well, "Keep calm and Carry On", they say.

    Actually, the vaccine most likely hasn't caused those thromboses. Correlation isn't the same as causality. 17 million AZ vaccines have been administered and only 39 cases of thrombosis were reported, which is actually a drop from the number that can be expected without Corona or vaccines. So even the correlation part is very doubtful. Furthermore, the few who have died from thrombosis had underlying health concerns which seem to be making the fact that they had been vaccinated merely coincidental.

    I rarely cry mass hysteria but this weird continental response to AZ seems to be a hard case of it. 12 million Brits got the vaccine and as yet no cases of thrombosis were reported to my knowledge. Halting vaccinations now will inevitably result in more deaths than if vaccination with AZ were continued.

    I hope my small country will continue to administer AZ, as it still is at the moment of writing as one of the few European countries. If I can get it, I will happily take it. Some RNA with a few lipids and saccharides is not going to clutter up my blood.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,529
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Gerard wrote: »
    Well, about that vaccine : The Astra Zeneca one has caused a few thrombosises, and its use has been suspended in a few countries, including, as of today, France. As vaccinations went on at a snail's pace, and stocks are not sufficient to vaccinate everybody, even people at risk like me (61, and suffering from high blood pressure), I don't know when I'll be getting my shot(s).

    https://www.snopes.com/ap/2021/03/15/astrazeneca-vaccine-europe-suspend/

    Oh, and there is talk of a week-end lockdown in Paris and its suburbs (where I live, BTW). So not optimistic on that front either. Ah well, "Keep calm and Carry On", they say.

    Actually, the vaccine most likely hasn't caused those thromboses. Correlation isn't the same as causality. 17 million AZ vaccines have been administered and only 39 cases of thrombosis were reported, which is actually a drop from the number that can be expected without Corona or vaccines. So even the correlation part is very doubtful. Furthermore, the few who have died from thrombosis had underlying health concerns which seem to be making the fact that they had been vaccinated merely coincidental.

    I rarely cry mass hysteria but this weird continental response to AZ seems to be a hard case of it. 12 million Brits got the vaccine and as yet no cases of thrombosis were reported to my knowledge. Halting vaccinations now will inevitably result in more deaths than if vaccination with AZ were continued.

    I hope my small country will continue to administer AZ, as it still is at the moment of writing as one of the few European countries. If I can get it, I will happily take it. Some RNA with a few lipids and saccharides is not going to clutter up my blood.

    The problem is people in charge of the vaccinations it seems are showing no urgency to end this pandemic.
    Are they incompetent or what ?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2021 Posts: 24,183
    The problem with RNA based vaccines is that they cannot be produced by just mixing together chemicals. The vaccines have to "grown" as it were; it's a biological process and that's the tricky part, especially since all the physical and chemical conditions have to be monitored carefully. No matter how meticulously labs do this, the success of the outcome is always somewhat unpredictable. Some batches will yield a lot, some will not. While it may seem that these pharmaceutical companies are underproducing, they are actually achieving historically unprecedented production flows.

    But the problem is public perception. Governments promise tons (granted, often following promises cautiously made by the companies themselves), then are livid when expectations aren't met. Meanwhile, not enough attempts are made to publicly explain how these vaccines are made and why getting them shipped within a year since the start of this pandemic is a stunning performance as it is. Pharmaceutical companies are furthermore easy targets for an angry mob mentality; many people still see them as the core evils of this world. But while some of their practices may be considered unethical for sure, they are not 'Spectre'. Conspiracy theorists and angry citizens nevertheless continue to demonize these companies; they read signs of maleficence in everything these companies do. There's always room for improvement, of course, but if these companies were indeed as bad as, or even worse than, ISIS or Hitler's regime, we'd be living in an entirely different world and the vaccine story would be told in a vastly different way. Of course, these companies get stupid rich: we swallow pills left and right and we need them so we pay good money for them. And yes, they seem to be keeping their vaccine "recipes" for themselves, which suggests greed over humanism in this pandemic. But even if they threw the recipes out for free, it's doubtful that public services or smaller companies would be logistically up to the task of producing vaccines in the same quantities and with the same level of quality control. Still, people love to target pharmaceutical companies as the big evil. We need our devils and demons, even if they aren't there.

    Our governments aren't incompetent for not being able to deliver more vaccines. They can't just speed up the biochemistry even if they wanted to, and neither can Pfizer, J&J, Moderna or AZ unless they, as well as the suppliers of the raw materials, expand their production facilities. The incompetence of our governments lies in the fact that they still have elections in mind while trying to navigate this crisis. They continue to communicate in a very poor way, often with a political agenda--some governments much more so than others--and they make rash decisions, like putting the AZ vaccinations on hold instead of doing more to avoid wild panic and mass hysteria. To put it bluntly: the fact that not enough people understand the science or how to evaluate the ridiculously small number of blood clotting cases recently reported within such a vast number of vaccinated cases, should not get in the way of public safety. And yet, right now, in several European countries, it is. Another form of incompetence, albeit one I can still somewhat understand, is that the European mainland decided to wait so much longer than, say, the UK, to order vaccines. First come, first served; it's our own fault and kudos to Boris for getting there faster. Again, I know why the EU waited so long: it wanted to make sure the vaccines were okay. Perhaps it was a little too careful. Or perhaps one can never be too careful. To be settled some other time, I guess. ;-)

    Look, I remain positive. 1) The vaccines work. They're doing their job well. In my country, for example, cases of infection within the vaccinated population (which is also the most vulnerable population) have dropped to almost zero and few to no side-effects were reported other than those that go away after 48 hours. 2) We're getting vaccinated much sooner than ever before in the history of our kind, not because the vaccines are 'bad' or insufficiently tested, but because current technologies, pooled resources and an ounce of luck have allowed this. (And the vaccines work!)

    Call me a blind optimist, but I'm not sitting here wondering where the hell my vaccines are and why my "stupid" government isn't capable of speeding things up and whatnot; I'm sitting here smiling, considering myself fortunate because rather than wait another five years, we'll most likely have all been vaccinated within a year plus a few months since the outbreak occurred, which is a quantum leap from how it would have happened up to a few years ago. I wish more people were appreciative of this gigantic global undertaking, despite all the false notes down the line, and where it has brought us on such short notice. The question ought not to be why it's going so slow: the question ought to be why other problems cannot be tackled with the same efficiency and at the same rate! I resent the fact that the media single out every misfire and zoom in on it, allowing the public perception to turn against those who work day and night to get us out of this mess as fast as possible; as such, journalism has been playing an antagonistic role almost as much as that of the sober communicator of information during this pandemic. This is a crisis, and no-one, not you or I, not your neighbour or the editor in chief of your favourite newspaper could've managed this whole affair without blunders along the way. Rather than focus on the bumpy road, we should focus on where it's taking us, and though I cannot see into the future (and neither can you), it's not looking so bad after all...
  • QQ7QQ7 Croatia
    Posts: 371
    Thank you for your calming post @DarthDimi. I hope that all goes well so we can leave this ugly chapter of history behind us.
    ...And maybe celebrate it's end with "No Time to Die" this fall. ;)
  • Posts: 5,994
    Aaaand it's official, ladies and gentlemen : France (well, 16 departments) will go into a third lockdown as of saturday, for four weeks at least. Which means that I'll only get to go to Paris for my medical appointments, and nothing else. Which means that I'll recover this month's comics tomorrow. On the other hand, the curfew has been extended to 7pm.Of course, non-essential stores will be closed, except for books and records stores, but as there are none in my town...

    And another thing : at the local Centre Leclerc (think Tesco of Wal-Mart), first there's a security guard with hydroalcoholic solution to ensure we rub our hands with it, even if there are already quite a few bottles around the store, and second, all the little shop inside the store have been closed, except for the pharmacy. Seems like there are more and more things we won't be able to appreciate for a very long time.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Fortunately, AZ vaccinations have resumed.
  • Posts: 5,994
    Yes, but I still don't know when, or even if, I'm going to receive my shots.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Gerard wrote: »
    Yes, but I still don't know when, or even if, I'm going to receive my shots.

    Neither do I. ;-) I guess we'll get there. Sooner or later. My patience isn't wearing too thin yet.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'm waiting to be told when my second appointment is, and like others. No
    side effects what so ever.
  • Posts: 5,994
    Today, I had a slight problem regarding my watch. It had given up the ghost. Probably just the battery needing to be replaced. But, because watchmakers are not considered essential businesses, I won't be able to get it replaced, or to buy a replacement watch (even a cheap one) for at least three weeks, if not more. All right, I have my mobile phone, So if need be, I'll always be able to get the time, but still, it's aggravating.
  • Posts: 1,314
    I’m expecting my vaccination next 3-4 weeks. Minor bump in the uk roll out expected but the commitment to manufacturing further vaccines in the uk shows promise and intention.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,133
    My second dose is in 2 weeks then all done...for now.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,529
    My second dose is in 2 weeks then all done...for now.

    They should let spectators in to football grounds after they have had the second dose, and other sporting events ?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Gerard wrote: »
    Today, I had a slight problem regarding my watch. It had given up the ghost. Probably just the battery needing to be replaced. But, because watchmakers are not considered essential businesses, I won't be able to get it replaced, or to buy a replacement watch (even a cheap one) for at least three weeks, if not more. All right, I have my mobile phone, So if need be, I'll always be able to get the time, but still, it's aggravating.

    You cannot even buy shoes and clothes here, but you can buy liquor in the state run shops. Idiotic bastards.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited March 2021 Posts: 25,133
    My second dose is in 2 weeks then all done...for now.

    They should let spectators in to football grounds after they have had the second dose, and other sporting events ?

    That's a wait and see, a debate is going on here as to whether Vaccine passports should be issued. the Government are not ruling out the idea of needing Vaccine Passport to enter a pub (there is a multitude of issues that will crop up here).
  • Posts: 1,314
    Gerard wrote: »
    Today, I had a slight problem regarding my watch. It had given up the ghost. Probably just the battery needing to be replaced. But, because watchmakers are not considered essential businesses, I won't be able to get it replaced, or to buy a replacement watch (even a cheap one) for at least three weeks, if not more. All right, I have my mobile phone, So if need be, I'll always be able to get the time, but still, it's aggravating.

    This is a bit of a first world problem
  • Posts: 5,994
    Maybe, but I need a watch at work, and it is easier to read the time at muy wrist rather than getting my phone out of my pocket and lighting it up every time I have to, especially since the higher ups don't very much like people using their cellphones at work. I also have to change my couch, given all the dirty business my cat has done on it, but I can't because all the furniture stores are also closed. Ah well, I suppose a bit more cat pee won't hurt much.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited March 2021 Posts: 25,133
    .
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think many of us are looking forward to being able to do some of the
    little things we used to take for granted again. I for instance am looking
    forward to having a haircut.
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