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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,602
    BMB007 wrote: »
    silva13 wrote: »
    BMB007 wrote: »
    Want to dive into Newman's scores more, always love them when I watch both those films. Have such a great atmosphere.

    I really liked Newman score for skyfall, it was atmospheric and used the bond theme sufficiently. His quieter moments in SP are where he shines the most.

    Yeah, though for me I think that's true of Spectre as a whole — it sounds stupid to say, but it does the simple "talking head" scenes so well. It's kind of a "duh" thing to say about an acclaimed theater director, but Mendes really knows how to make two people in a room talking quite engaging to watch!
    No I think that’s perfectly valid to say, I agree. And the scores work perfectly for that: they feel atmospheric and lush.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited September 2021 Posts: 4,343
    Meanwhile wrote: »
    I sometimes wonder if I am a bigger fan of Bond music than the films themselves, so having said that my anticipation for a new Bond score is always a momentous occasion. Here are some thoughts, long-winded and detailed in my highest key of Bond music nerd.

    Careful, it's a long read.
    I kind of like how Thomas Newman's take on the Bond theme as presented in the closing of Skyfall and Spectre, as well as the gunbarrel in Spectre of course, has been incorporated by Zimmer and Mazzaro as a tradition to close out the Craig tenure. For the gunbarrel in Spectre, Newman interestingly adapted the triangle-led variation Arnold gave us in the end credits of QOS and I'm happy to see Zimmer dropped the triangle.

    Matera, though. What a cheeseball, yeesh. Somebody here already pointed out that it is highly reminiscent of Arnold's over-the-top Venice music from CR and I'd have to agree. It's just boilerplate, sappy orchestra noise with little atmosphere and the weakest of the romantic cues in Craig's films. For all of the complaints some of us have lobbed against Arnold, he'd never have directly quoted "We Have All the Time in the World". He'd have used Madeleine's theme and given it the thematic support it needed to be it's own thing. I have to imagine either Bond or Madeleine utter the words to each other while this swoons, otherwise it's just a useless John Barry homage that contributes nothing. Would have much preferred a continuation and reinterpretation of Madeleine's theme as written by Newman.

    The car chase music (Message From an Old Friend & Square Escape) — it's cool and energetic enough. It's quite hard to judge it without seeing how it works in the context of the action. We do start to see developed here some sort of dramatic "danger" theme that will continue many times throughout the score and is an almost note-for-note copy of one of Zimmer's dramatic "danger" themes from The Dark Knight Trilogy. Like really, he changed one note. This new theme runs at it's highest wattage during "I'll Be Right Back". I do enjoy that the section with the bridge encounter Message From an Old Friend we know from the released clip has been tracked with something else that sounds quite a bit like Blade Runner 2049. I think that sound works better.

    No qualms about these cues, except that I'm pretty unimpressed with the over-use of Marr's guitar parts in the action music. Another thing Arnold eventually got right by QOS was the masterful guitar parts and the reverb/mic effects they come with in Bond lore. You feel them. They shake the ground. The sound dirty, sexy, and classic. Marr's stuff is under-mixed and pretty unimpressive. Couldn't anyone have played these parts? To be fair, this is something the vast majority of the Bond scores get wrong but it's particularly disappointing here given all the guitar hype.

    Someone Was Here, Not What I Expected, What Have You Done, and Shouldn't We Get to Know Each Other First are all mysterious on what exactly they underscore to us and that's fine — there's a lot of pretty cool "Bond sound" moments in there that I like. Arnold-esque, for sure. There's a few flairs that land in Newman Town, as well. Some neat textures. Love how "Shouldn't We Get to Know Each Other First" finishes out. Feels like a bookend to Craig first wearing his new tuxedo into the Casino Royale.

    Cuba Chase is probably the most "Arnold"... let's even say DAD edition Arnold... track of them all. I find it entertaining, big and brassy. Not sure I love the Cuban trumpet flair, but then I don't know what exactly it underscores. I hated the Cuban trumpet flair all over DAD's Cuba-set scenes, so perhaps I'm just reliving the eye-rolling. Possibly it covers the cuts the action where Paloma kicks ass, and then finally the wild Cuban trumpet with the Bond theme when they team against the baddies.

    If it sounds like I'm a bit disappointed at this point, I somewhat was. It won't finish out all negative, though.

    Back to MI6 is just about what everyone has been drooling for since we heard it on that first podcast, and in the somewhat more desirable quality we hear all of it's layers and feel it's fun. Marr's guitar just still doesn't have the effect, though. Think this scene is gonna drive the audience wild though.

    Good to Have You Back is a disappointment. Quiet, poor orchestration, and dull. I'm sure it has something to do with Blofeld's scenes, but I just can't see this making me feel anything. At this moment, I wonder why it just had to be recalled when our modern day Blofeld could have been accompanied perhaps with Newman's motif for him in Spectre (see: "Silver Wraith", "End Credits"). Lovely To See You Again is a nice little piece, but kind of hard to rate given we don't even know where it really fits yet.

    Home, though. F*** me. So far, I've got to say it's my favorite cue on the album at this moment. I love the clear establishing shot over Norway underscore, a sweeping, driven, epic version of the title song. And once we get to Eilish's lullaby version of the title song, and the brief orchestral swell. I'm in heaven. Perhaps I'm the one being lullabied. It's something Morricone totally would have done had he scored a romantic Bond film. I really love Zimmer & Mazzaro's renditions of the title theme in this score, way more than I imagined I would.

    This is where I start to come around a little more on the score and consequently, where it becomes a little more textured and atmospheric.

    Having said that, I generally find the choir schtick in these scores to be a bit tacky for a film like this. In Norway Chase, the choir kills me. I can't stand it. It's for a scene reintroducing the villain and supposedly covers a chase involving a bunch of jeeps. I don't see the need. It begins to get less on my nerves as the score moves towards the climax in Safin's lair, as I can imagine the visuals providing the audience with some sort of horror there.

    Gearing Up is a cool track. Can't wait to see how it works with the sound design in the glider scene.

    Poison Garden & The Factory of course correspond to on-screen action but I love the atmosphere here. These encapsulate something Arnold only came to find his skill with in QOS, but Newman & Zimmer can do in their sleep.

    I'll Be Right Back is possibly my second favorite track here. It brings back and gives a lot of space to the "danger" theme I previously said is a fairly direct reinterpretation of one of Zimmer's Batman themes. It completely is, no more clear here than ever. But I kind of like it here, and certainly it kind of gets the blood pumping and probably works perfectly under the scene it scores. And then there's that beautiful, romantic NTTD title moment - the payoff from our blue-balled climax of Home. Love it.

    Opening the Doors is a cool, nail-biting action piece. Looking forward to seeing the nuke be deactivated at "007" or whatever. ;)

    Final Ascension... ah, yes. The track everyone is talking about the most. Here are some thoughts on it.

    The mournful section is pretty, but also pretty distracting. Why, you ask? Because as I'm sure some are pointing out - Zimmer and his cohorts have used this line about a million times in films like "Thin Red Line" and even on TV with "The Queen" (which was the first thought I had). I'm sure on screen it will work. But while most of you criticize Thomas Newman for following orders given by editors and directors in love with temp tracks, at least he didn't play music from "Finding Nemo" or "K-PAX" when Bond & Madeleine nobbed on the train in Spectre, or "American Beauty" when Tanner said, "Careful, it's a trifle bit slippery".

    For those assuming that it could be what the final seven minutes of the film sounds like, do be careful. Zimmer is quite a sucker for finishing his soundtrack albums with suites that are either completely new music independent of the film or reinterpretational suites of his main themes. Sure, this could be 7 minutes of Bond dying and everyone mourning him - or it could be 3 minutes of score and 4 minutes of drama for our listening experience. Don't count your Mathildes before they hatch.

    As a listening experience though, it is pretty. Zimmer delivers on the over-the-top emotion here, sure to make grown men cry if it plays out the way many predict it will. It's not exactly "Time", but his Nolan scores probably can't be topped. The crescendo at the end is lovely, and makes it so that only one thing can close the album after being that exhausted — and that's our title song, No Time To Die. Beautiful placement. Sort of reminds me of when soundtracks, in the LP days, used to be designed around the score being a listening experience. This LP will be a must-have.

    To sum up the most common complaints - the first half of the score drawing from what David Arnold did best (slick Bond action) but providing neutered-sounding guitar parts from Marr. Liked the bits that felt like Arnold, and I dare say I found them surprisingly refreshing even though I prefer Thomas Newman's sense of intelligence and atmosphere in his scores which is a thing Arnold's music has always struggled to have.

    The fan-service s**t with the OHMSS quotes embarrasses me, frankly. I'm glad you all love it, but it's one of those legacy things that pops up every now and again that prevents the series from moving forward in the strides it deserves to — kind of like the over-use of the DB5 and it's mysterious gadgets. Will be interesting to see how it fits into the underscore.

    Wish Zimmer would have adapted & reinterpreted Madeleine's theme from Spectre as well.

    But otherwise, I sort of end up really liking the score by the end. I wonder what ideas Dan Romer may have had in the beginning?


    The OHMSS nods are great imo, not because of dull fan service but because they mark a musical and, as a consequence, thematic connection to the only previous “romantic” Bond film. Then, Bond & Swann love theme is clearly the title song that Zimmer masterfully incorporates within the score in four of the most emotional tracks. Those piano notes and melodies are their theme, and is beautifully tragic.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,602
    I presume the OHMSS theme itself is there in the bit where Bond meets M in his office again (I know that's pretty obvious from the title of the track! :) ) and I wonder if the phrase 'Her Majesty's secret service' isn't actually used in the dialogue there.
  • petergreenhill5petergreenhill5
    Posts: 824
    silva13 wrote: »
    BMB007 wrote: »
    Want to dive into Newman's scores more, always love them when I watch both those films. Have such a great atmosphere.

    I really liked Newman score for skyfall, it was atmospheric and used the bond theme sufficiently. His quieter moments in SP are where he shines the most.
    ---
    Absolutely. Newman's scores gave the films a gorgeous, dark, exotic atmosphere. They are, in my opinion, seriously underrated.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 16,602
    petergreenhill5 wrote: »
    silva13 wrote: »
    BMB007 wrote: »
    Want to dive into Newman's scores more, always love them when I watch both those films. Have such a great atmosphere.

    I really liked Newman score for skyfall, it was atmospheric and used the bond theme sufficiently. His quieter moments in SP are where he shines the most.
    ---
    Absolutely. Newman's scores gave the films a gorgeous, dark, exotic atmosphere. They are, in my opinion, seriously underrated.

    Massively. I think they have a real sumptuous, quality feel to them: they're luxury film scores, which a Bond film should have. I enjoy the tunes that Arnold came up with, but I really like the sophisticated feel and complex orchestration of the Newman scores- they really suit Bond, and it's a reinterpretation of what Bond music can be which I think really works.
    This Zimmer score is very much from the same stable I think, but it's replaced that luxury feel with pure energy and exuberance, which I think is a reasonable approach and I think it'll work really well in the film.
  • silva13silva13 Australia
    Posts: 198
    In saying how much i like Newman's score I must say he does fall short in keeping energy alive during moments of long action. I think in short burst of action his music is incredible like when Bond takes out Silva's men on the island. But moments like snow plane and the escape from Blofelds crater just falls flat and feels repetitive. His best action scoring imo is when he almost imitates Zimmer, think when Bond is holding on to the elevator or Silva lands at skyfall. Those tracks are reminiscent of the dark knight easily.

    I think Zimmer will create more tension and a sense of urgency in the score and that's what I personally wanted most as the stakes have apparently never been higher- I want the score to reflect that and it sounds like it has.
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    silva13 wrote: »
    In saying how much i like Newman's score I must say he does fall short in keeping energy alive during moments of long action. I think in short burst of action his music is incredible like when Bond takes out Silva's men on the island. But moments like snow plane and the escape from Blofelds crater just falls flat and feels repetitive. His best action scoring imo is when he almost imitates Zimmer, think when Bond is holding on to the elevator or Silva lands at skyfall. Those tracks are reminiscent of the dark knight easily.

    I think Zimmer will create more tension and a sense of urgency in the score and that's what I personally wanted most as the stakes have apparently never been higher- I want the score to reflect that and it sounds like it has.

    +1
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 16,602
    Yes, snow plane is a bit flat, that's true. It might be interesting to lay a bit of Zimmer onto that and see how it feels.
    I saw someone plaster the Bond theme on that sequence and I didn't think it worked to be honest. It could maybe do with it when Bond decides to intercept the convoy with his sliding plane (maybe a bit like in TND's PTS where Bond gets his plane into position under the other one), and crescendo in the fanfare as the plane smashes through the house maybe, but the rest of it doesn't really require it.

    Someone did recut the plane chase with Runaway from FYEO last year, and it was brilliant as you'd expect! :D Sadly it looks like they had to delete the tweet.
  • silva13silva13 Australia
    Posts: 198
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes, snow plane is a bit flat, that's true. It might be interesting to lay a bit of Zimmer onto that and see how it feels.

    In boredom I once placed a track from nightfire over the top of it and it played incredibly well. Makes you realise how easy it must be to use temp tracks.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,216
    mtm wrote: »
    I presume the OHMSS theme itself is there in the bit where Bond meets M in his office again (I know that's pretty obvious from the title of the track! :) ) and I wonder if the phrase 'Her Majesty's secret service' isn't actually used in the dialogue there.

    It’s probably when they start talking about Blofeld, which then segues to Bond at the government prison where Blofeld is held.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,602
    silva13 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes, snow plane is a bit flat, that's true. It might be interesting to lay a bit of Zimmer onto that and see how it feels.

    In boredom I once placed a track from nightfire over the top of it and it played incredibly well. Makes you realise how easy it must be to use temp tracks.

    Yeah I'd be amazed if the opening of NTTD hadn't been temp tracked with City of Lovers from CR: Matera sounds just like it.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I love the reviews I'm reading about Zimmer's score. It was expected though. I can't wait to get the score on October 1st. I always knew Zimmer would look at OHMSS for inspiration. Maybe he saw that Nolan used OHMSS as an inspiration for Inception and he decided to do the same musically for NTTD.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,602
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I love the reviews I'm reading about Zimmer's score. It was expected though. I can't wait to get the score on October 1st. I always knew Zimmer would look at OHMSS for inspiration. Maybe he saw that Nolan used OHMSS as an inspiration for Inception and he decided to do the same musically for NTTD.

    I'm looking forward to seeing your response to hearing it! I'm sure you'll love it :)
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I love the reviews I'm reading about Zimmer's score. It was expected though. I can't wait to get the score on October 1st. I always knew Zimmer would look at OHMSS for inspiration. Maybe he saw that Nolan used OHMSS as an inspiration for Inception and he decided to do the same musically for NTTD.

    I'm looking forward to seeing your response to hearing it! I'm sure you'll love it :)

    Sure! @mtm I'm so excited :D :)>-
  • DoctorClatterhandDoctorClatterhand
    edited September 2021 Posts: 162
    Removed by moderator. Please refrain from posting the leaked OST within the threads.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    oh no he didn't
  • DoctorClatterhandDoctorClatterhand
    Posts: 162
    DoctorClatterhand wrote: »
    Removed by moderator. Please refrain from posting the leaked OST within the threads.

    My apologies. 🙏🙏
  • Bond_ScoresBond_Scores UK
    Posts: 97
    I've just whizzed through the soundtrack and I'm really impressed on a first listen \:D/ I'm fortunate enough through work to have been sent a streaming link. It also features four cues titled Q1 (Vinyl Only), Q2 (Vinyl Only), Q3 (Vinyl Only), Q4 (Vinyl Only). I don't know if these have been discussed here?

    I echo so much of what's been said by other members; it's a joy to hear the Barry/OHMSS references and that 'No Time To Die' is interwoven into so much of the score, like the Bond films of yesteryear.

    My overriding impression is that Zimmer has paid homage to many of his predecessors - Barry, but also Arnold and Newman.

    It's interesting that so many of you mention hearing elements of the Goldeneye score too. Most of you will know that John Altman has been involved in the scoring of the movie? He's actually credited as a performer on the Gun Barrel cue that was released last year. That would explain the similarities in orchestration and the references to other Bond scores (we know that Altman was a big fan of Barry's).
  • antovolkantovolk
    Posts: 3,164
    Yeah those seem vinyl exclusive, I wonder what they are...clearly bonus cues of some sort - wonder if suites Zimmer has written (the way he usually does at the start of the process) or just some extra cues that didn't make it to the regular release.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,602
    Bond_Scores wrote: »
    I've just whizzed through the soundtrack and I'm really impressed on a first listen \:D/ I'm fortunate enough through work to have been sent a streaming link. It also features four cues titled Q1 (Vinyl Only), Q2 (Vinyl Only), Q3 (Vinyl Only), Q4 (Vinyl Only). I don't know if these have been discussed here?

    I echo so much of what's been said by other members; it's a joy to hear the Barry/OHMSS references and that 'No Time To Die' is interwoven into so much of the score, like the Bond films of yesteryear.

    My overriding impression is that Zimmer has paid homage to many of his predecessors - Barry, but also Arnold and Newman.

    It's interesting that so many of you mention hearing elements of the Goldeneye score too. Most of you will know that John Altman has been involved in the scoring of the movie? He's actually credited as a performer on the Gun Barrel cue that was released last year. That would explain the similarities in orchestration and the references to other Bond scores (we know that Altman was a big fan of Barry's).

    Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing.
  • Bond_ScoresBond_Scores UK
    Posts: 97
    antovolk wrote: »
    Yeah those seem vinyl exclusive, I wonder what they are...clearly bonus cues of some sort - wonder if suites Zimmer has written (the way he usually does at the start of the process) or just some extra cues that didn't make it to the regular release.

    I'm just listening to them again now and they're most ambient atmospheric cues, all around the two minute mark. The last track sounds like it came from one of the (many) trailers for the movie. None are essential listening but nice bonus material I guess.
  • GettlerGettler USA
    Posts: 326
    Bond_Scores wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    Yeah those seem vinyl exclusive, I wonder what they are...clearly bonus cues of some sort - wonder if suites Zimmer has written (the way he usually does at the start of the process) or just some extra cues that didn't make it to the regular release.

    I'm just listening to them again now and they're most ambient atmospheric cues, all around the two minute mark. The last track sounds like it came from one of the (many) trailers for the movie. None are essential listening but nice bonus material I guess.

    Ah, I am curious how they sound, and their length times. Are they short or longer tracks? For Zimmer longer could mean anything from 6 mins to 20 mins. Hehe
  • antovolkantovolk
    edited September 2021 Posts: 3,164
    Seems the score - or at least the Matera and Shouldn't We Get To Know Each Other First - may be going up officially as early as tomorrow, if you Google "No time to die hans Zimmer" you'll see tracks that are being uploaded to his official YT channel (but they aren't live just yet). Check back in 40 mins...
  • antovolkantovolk
    Posts: 3,164
    And here we go - Matera and Shouldn't We Get To Know Each Other First now officially released tomorrow (today in Aus/NZ) https://music.apple.com/nz/album/no-time-to-die-original-motion-picture-soundtrack/1533265529
  • moneyofpropre2moneyofpropre2 France
    edited September 2021 Posts: 859
    Well, funny/strange they don't released all yet. I mean they probably know the whole thing have leaked, so release it would give a legit way to the people who want to heard it and earn money on it (but no, they give no place to people to listen it except in the "underground" ones where they no a penny to earn on it). Advance the date wouldn't had been the best reaction from a commercial POV?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,602
    antovolk wrote: »
    And here we go - Matera and Shouldn't We Get To Know Each Other First now officially released tomorrow (today in Aus/NZ) https://music.apple.com/nz/album/no-time-to-die-original-motion-picture-soundtrack/1533265529

    Just two of them? That's weird isn't it?
  • antovolkantovolk
    Posts: 3,164
    mtm wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    And here we go - Matera and Shouldn't We Get To Know Each Other First now officially released tomorrow (today in Aus/NZ) https://music.apple.com/nz/album/no-time-to-die-original-motion-picture-soundtrack/1533265529

    Just two of them? That's weird isn't it?

    It's kinda like they released the Gunbarrel on James Bond day last year, and they did a couple tracks for Dune during the summer...one or two promotional singles ahead of the full OST drop is kinda the norm now.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,602
    I didn't know that, thanks.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 104
    With Skyfall they released three tracks (Grand Bazaar, Jellyfish and Grandborough) a couple of weeks before the film's release, with Spectre they released Donna Lucia and Backfire again a couple of weeks before the film's release.
  • silva13silva13 Australia
    Posts: 198
    Perfection.
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