NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,480
    Yes, I think that is true. And EON shouldn't repeat what had just come before. As somebody said earlier, if the movies did not change we would have had many Dr Nos. And I think the franchise would have died out years ago without big changes now and then.

    Plus, Daniel's films are so very well done there is no need to redo them from a quality standpoint either They really sit well as a special part of the film canon.
  • Posts: 1,497
    I see it again in a few hours. Really looking forward to it. This is, for me, a splendid Bond film and a fitting finale for Daniel's Bond. His is the modern, realistic Bond and his films have their own story arc - which I came to appreciate by Skyfall; I have zero problems with that. This film had an ending I did not think possible to pull off; I was against it. But NTTD got it right, so very well done. Because it is Craig's Bond I find it very fitting. I wanted his Bond story to be completed in a satisfying way, touching on his past films. I'm thrilled the acting, directing, sound, editing are all top notch. The music is fine and serves the film well.

    So yes, I do feel this is a great Bond film and I'm very happy, as one of the oldest fans here, that we have all of Daniel Craig's movies as part of the canon now. What an excellent film to end his era. So glad he did not end it with Spectre.

    I am also not concerned about the next Bond film. They will start fresh, different direction, and I'm confident the series will continue. It is interesting reading so many reactions - hardly anybody bored by it or on the fence, so to speak. I'm firmly positive about this film. It is in my top 5 of all time for now, will probably stay in the top 10 for sure. And I'm happy with the box office stats at the moment. I hope it does great worldwide. Cheers! B-)

    I'm with you. Loved the film and found the last act truly emotional and powerful.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    So good to hear from you, @ColonelSun! Glad you liked it and found it worthwhile.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    I see it again in a few hours. Really looking forward to it. This is, for me, a splendid Bond film and a fitting finale for Daniel's Bond. His is the modern, realistic Bond and his films have their own story arc - which I came to appreciate by Skyfall; I have zero problems with that. This film had an ending I did not think possible to pull off; I was against it. But NTTD got it right, so very well done. Because it is Craig's Bond I find it very fitting. I wanted his Bond story to be completed in a satisfying way, touching on his past films. I'm thrilled the acting, directing, sound, editing are all top notch. The music is fine and serves the film well.

    So yes, I do feel this is a great Bond film and I'm very happy, as one of the oldest fans here, that we have all of Daniel Craig's movies as part of the canon now. What an excellent film to end his era. So glad he did not end it with Spectre.

    I am also not concerned about the next Bond film. They will start fresh, different direction, and I'm confident the series will continue. It is interesting reading so many reactions - hardly anybody bored by it or on the fence, so to speak. I'm firmly positive about this film. It is in my top 5 of all time for now, will probably stay in the top 10 for sure. And I'm happy with the box office stats at the moment. I hope it does great worldwide. Cheers! B-)

    I'm with you. Loved the film and found the last act truly emotional and powerful.

    Same here. NTTD is a monumental achievement and an impressive last chapter in the Daniel Craig saga. It’s the most revolutionary Bond film ever but at the same time it feels already like a classic. Kudos to Fukunaga. Today I’ll see it for the third time.
  • LizWLizW England
    Posts: 30
    cwl007 wrote: »
    This is from 2015
    //
    Ultimately, in my opinion, it does not matter in the grand scheme of the series what happens at the end of NTTD any more than it matters that Bond went to space. Having the knowledge that Bond does die at some point in his future? So what! We'll all have a death, we just happen to know when and how Bond's happens.
    If it's not to your taste just chalk this up as an individual film you don't like and move on. We have many previous ones to still enjoy and we'll no doubt enjoy future entries.

    I concur. We're all going to die - except for fictional characters, who are essentially either immortal (Fleming's Bond would be 100 by now) or resurrectable, so what's the worry? I loved the Jack London quote, by the way. It's how I live my own life, although I don't go around blowing things up.



  • Posts: 87
    I saw NTTD the second time yesterday. I noticed, Bond points out Logan Ash has blonde hair. He also has blue eyes ... but I'm not under the illusion that in Bond 26, Ash
    turns out to be the father of Madleine's child. I am rather afraid, based on the last scene, that they will be heading for a dead end in ideas straight from soap operas to continue the story of the child as she becomes adult ...

    After watching the movie again, I am convinced that if you:
    - throw Madleine away with her child, props like a peeled apple and the teddy bear from the movie
    - make Paloma the Bond girl instead
    - keep Felix
    - let Blofeld escape from the prison
    - do not show M, Q and Moneypenny together as if they were the only people in MI6
    - develop action scenes to give the music a chance to expand to completed pieces of music
    - try to use the John Barry's "007" but do not reuse other pieces of music that were composed to illustrate a different plot (I don't like that in SP as well)
    - try to add more Ken Adam style decorations
    - show how Bond escapes with Paloma from the silo but keep MI6's belief that Bond did not survive
    that would be a great Bond movie!
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    Re Chemistry between Madeleine and Bond. I thought they worked well together. I also liked them in Spectre so I’m maybe a bit biased. I like Madeleine’s character and feel that with her background she and Bond would be an ideal couple. The one flaw for me though was that if they were both so in love with each other, why did they stay apart for so long over what was a basic misunderstanding which could have been cleared up (albeit a big misunderstanding)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,480
    I really don't see any characters from Daniel's era being in the next Bond film. No need to ever mention Madeleine or their daughter again. It's a fresh start, a new take on Bond. MI6 crew of course will be there, but probably/undoubtedly different actors.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    I see it again in a few hours. Really looking forward to it. This is, for me, a splendid Bond film and a fitting finale for Daniel's Bond. His is the modern, realistic Bond and his films have their own story arc - which I came to appreciate by Skyfall; I have zero problems with that. This film had an ending I did not think possible to pull off; I was against it. But NTTD got it right, so very well done. Because it is Craig's Bond I find it very fitting. I wanted his Bond story to be completed in a satisfying way, touching on his past films. I'm thrilled the acting, directing, sound, editing are all top notch. The music is fine and serves the film well.

    So yes, I do feel this is a great Bond film and I'm very happy, as one of the oldest fans here, that we have all of Daniel Craig's movies as part of the canon now. What an excellent film to end his era. So glad he did not end it with Spectre.

    I am also not concerned about the next Bond film. They will start fresh, different direction, and I'm confident the series will continue. It is interesting reading so many reactions - hardly anybody bored by it or on the fence, so to speak. I'm firmly positive about this film. It is in my top 5 of all time for now, will probably stay in the top 10 for sure. And I'm happy with the box office stats at the moment. I hope it does great worldwide. Cheers! B-)

    I'm with you. Loved the film and found the last act truly emotional and powerful.

    Glad to hear you loved it colonelsun!

    Got my second viewing this Friday afternoon coming. Can't wait. It will be a film I see 3 or 4 times I think.

    On subject of Bond fans having seen all the movies in the cinema. My dad saw Dr no in the cinema, midnight showing with some friends way back when he was a young man in the 60s. He hated it. Fell asleep. Though he did partake in the ogling of one certain bond girl ;).

    He went to see NTTD with me. He is in very poor health, a lot older now. He likes what Craig has done because he feels like it made Bond more relatable. He bleeds. He aches. He's not indestructible.

    He came out loving the movie saying it was one of his favourites of Craig. He thought the three hours flew by. I've remarked this before but the ultimate subversion for me being a woman is that I'm glad I saw this with my dad. It isn't a father/son movie.... it felt like a father/daughter movie. It'll annoy so many people but I don't give a damn.

    Good dads often do not get the chance to show their feelings but will do anything especially for their daughters and their families.

    And that made me come out and want to hug my dad a little harder. And I'm OK with that.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    That is so very special, @00Heaven. Lovely for you and your dad. Thanks for sharing that with us.
  • Posts: 87
    00Heaven wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    I see it again in a few hours. Really looking forward to it. This is, for me, a splendid Bond film and a fitting finale for Daniel's Bond. His is the modern, realistic Bond and his films have their own story arc - which I came to appreciate by Skyfall; I have zero problems with that. This film had an ending I did not think possible to pull off; I was against it. But NTTD got it right, so very well done. Because it is Craig's Bond I find it very fitting. I wanted his Bond story to be completed in a satisfying way, touching on his past films. I'm thrilled the acting, directing, sound, editing are all top notch. The music is fine and serves the film well.

    So yes, I do feel this is a great Bond film and I'm very happy, as one of the oldest fans here, that we have all of Daniel Craig's movies as part of the canon now. What an excellent film to end his era. So glad he did not end it with Spectre.

    I am also not concerned about the next Bond film. They will start fresh, different direction, and I'm confident the series will continue. It is interesting reading so many reactions - hardly anybody bored by it or on the fence, so to speak. I'm firmly positive about this film. It is in my top 5 of all time for now, will probably stay in the top 10 for sure. And I'm happy with the box office stats at the moment. I hope it does great worldwide. Cheers! B-)

    I'm with you. Loved the film and found the last act truly emotional and powerful.

    Glad to hear you loved it colonelsun!

    Got my second viewing this Friday afternoon coming. Can't wait. It will be a film I see 3 or 4 times I think.

    On subject of Bond fans having seen all the movies in the cinema. My dad saw Dr no in the cinema, midnight showing with some friends way back when he was a young man in the 60s. He hated it. Fell asleep. Though he did partake in the ogling of one certain bond girl ;).

    He went to see NTTD with me. He is in very poor health, a lot older now. He likes what Craig has done because he feels like it made Bond more relatable. He bleeds. He aches. He's not indestructible.

    He came out loving the movie saying it was one of his favourites of Craig. He thought the three hours flew by. I've remarked this before but the ultimate subversion for me being a woman is that I'm glad I saw this with my dad. It isn't a father/son movie.... it felt like a father/daughter movie. It'll annoy so many people but I don't give a damn.

    Good dads often do not get the chance to show their feelings but will do anything especially for their daughters and their families.

    And that made me come out and want to hug my dad a little harder. And I'm OK with that.

    Is it really the purpose of Bond movies to show such feelings? Did you miss them in previous movies?
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    00Heaven wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    I see it again in a few hours. Really looking forward to it. This is, for me, a splendid Bond film and a fitting finale for Daniel's Bond. His is the modern, realistic Bond and his films have their own story arc - which I came to appreciate by Skyfall; I have zero problems with that. This film had an ending I did not think possible to pull off; I was against it. But NTTD got it right, so very well done. Because it is Craig's Bond I find it very fitting. I wanted his Bond story to be completed in a satisfying way, touching on his past films. I'm thrilled the acting, directing, sound, editing are all top notch. The music is fine and serves the film well.

    So yes, I do feel this is a great Bond film and I'm very happy, as one of the oldest fans here, that we have all of Daniel Craig's movies as part of the canon now. What an excellent film to end his era. So glad he did not end it with Spectre.

    I am also not concerned about the next Bond film. They will start fresh, different direction, and I'm confident the series will continue. It is interesting reading so many reactions - hardly anybody bored by it or on the fence, so to speak. I'm firmly positive about this film. It is in my top 5 of all time for now, will probably stay in the top 10 for sure. And I'm happy with the box office stats at the moment. I hope it does great worldwide. Cheers! B-)

    I'm with you. Loved the film and found the last act truly emotional and powerful.

    Glad to hear you loved it colonelsun!

    Got my second viewing this Friday afternoon coming. Can't wait. It will be a film I see 3 or 4 times I think.

    On subject of Bond fans having seen all the movies in the cinema. My dad saw Dr no in the cinema, midnight showing with some friends way back when he was a young man in the 60s. He hated it. Fell asleep. Though he did partake in the ogling of one certain bond girl ;).

    He went to see NTTD with me. He is in very poor health, a lot older now. He likes what Craig has done because he feels like it made Bond more relatable. He bleeds. He aches. He's not indestructible.

    He came out loving the movie saying it was one of his favourites of Craig. He thought the three hours flew by. I've remarked this before but the ultimate subversion for me being a woman is that I'm glad I saw this with my dad. It isn't a father/son movie.... it felt like a father/daughter movie. It'll annoy so many people but I don't give a damn.

    Good dads often do not get the chance to show their feelings but will do anything especially for their daughters and their families.

    And that made me come out and want to hug my dad a little harder. And I'm OK with that.

    Great post!
  • Posts: 3,278
    00Heaven wrote: »
    it felt like a father/daughter movie.
    Exactly. Bond...the family man. Who's madly in love with a woman he hasn't seen in five years. Who bleeds, whines and isn't found attractive to any other women than the woman of his child. All okay, I guess. Personally I would have preferred @Qba007's take here, but I knew it was Craig's swansong, so I will hold back on any complaining. As long as he is not changing diapers in the next one...it's all good.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Qba007 wrote: »
    00Heaven wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    I see it again in a few hours. Really looking forward to it. This is, for me, a splendid Bond film and a fitting finale for Daniel's Bond. His is the modern, realistic Bond and his films have their own story arc - which I came to appreciate by Skyfall; I have zero problems with that. This film had an ending I did not think possible to pull off; I was against it. But NTTD got it right, so very well done. Because it is Craig's Bond I find it very fitting. I wanted his Bond story to be completed in a satisfying way, touching on his past films. I'm thrilled the acting, directing, sound, editing are all top notch. The music is fine and serves the film well.

    So yes, I do feel this is a great Bond film and I'm very happy, as one of the oldest fans here, that we have all of Daniel Craig's movies as part of the canon now. What an excellent film to end his era. So glad he did not end it with Spectre.

    I am also not concerned about the next Bond film. They will start fresh, different direction, and I'm confident the series will continue. It is interesting reading so many reactions - hardly anybody bored by it or on the fence, so to speak. I'm firmly positive about this film. It is in my top 5 of all time for now, will probably stay in the top 10 for sure. And I'm happy with the box office stats at the moment. I hope it does great worldwide. Cheers! B-)

    I'm with you. Loved the film and found the last act truly emotional and powerful.

    Glad to hear you loved it colonelsun!

    Got my second viewing this Friday afternoon coming. Can't wait. It will be a film I see 3 or 4 times I think.

    On subject of Bond fans having seen all the movies in the cinema. My dad saw Dr no in the cinema, midnight showing with some friends way back when he was a young man in the 60s. He hated it. Fell asleep. Though he did partake in the ogling of one certain bond girl ;).

    He went to see NTTD with me. He is in very poor health, a lot older now. He likes what Craig has done because he feels like it made Bond more relatable. He bleeds. He aches. He's not indestructible.

    He came out loving the movie saying it was one of his favourites of Craig. He thought the three hours flew by. I've remarked this before but the ultimate subversion for me being a woman is that I'm glad I saw this with my dad. It isn't a father/son movie.... it felt like a father/daughter movie. It'll annoy so many people but I don't give a damn.

    Good dads often do not get the chance to show their feelings but will do anything especially for their daughters and their families.

    And that made me come out and want to hug my dad a little harder. And I'm OK with that.

    Is it really the purpose of Bond movies to show such feelings? Did you miss them in previous movies?

    What’s the problem? NTTD is designed to be the most unique entry ever. This feelings fit this entry. They don’t fit the previous.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    It was never going to please everyone as I've said ad nauseum here. We're all bond fans and we have the right for the discourse. But ultimately I think if this wasn't for you then there's the future to look forward to.

    As for feelings and movies. It depends on my mood. I for one think they had to shake up the formula. My dad not being a bond fan I feel is an example of that. But if I didn't want this then I can put on some of the classics and still feel.... the difference is I'm feeling happiness and I'm still entertained. I'm not sure movies should make you feel absolutely nothing. I'm not sure what the point of that would truly be.

    Two foods for thought as well I suppose...

    I wonder if a lot of the reaction here is due to the fear of the unknown for the future of Bond. I wonder if some, not all, will reflect on this differently when the series has settled in the future.

    Secondly, given my post above, I noticed Craig attended the premiere with his daughter and not his wife. Yes, I know they usually walk out after the usual PA spiel but at the time it did make me think...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,480
    Thanks, @Birdleson. And it's really because of this film. It exceeded my wary expectations by leaps and bounds. I saw it again today. It's always interesting when a new Bond film comes out, fun to chat - but this time? Wow! I mean it really is divisive, but it's great we have strong feelings rather than picking it apart simply because it is meh or mediocre. I am thrilled with this film, and I did not think I would be. Though I did, from the start, have faith in Cary. He and Linus are a dream partnership with a camera.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737

    @ProfJoeButcher Who are these people you talk about? They don't exist. You have brought together odd comments here and there and constructed a mythical Bond fan who you are railing against.

    I, for one, don't think any of these things you describe. So who does?

    I also think that just because someone might struggle in the moment to perfectly articulate why they don't like a film, it doesn't mean that they are wrong or that their ideas about the film are stupid or ill informed. We've all only seen it once or twice! And remember how DAD got good reviews back in 2001...?

    You seem to get very offended when someone says they don't like SP or NTTD. And I happen to think that being excited or in hysterics because some fans hate the film is a very odd reaction for a supposed Bond fan.

    I want a Bond film that we mostly all like. I want Bond fans to be happy. For example, I am cool on the film right now, but I am genuinely happy that you and other fans had a great time with it.


    Anyway, peace. I know that if we were in a room we could judge each other's tone and there would be less animosity. So no hard feelings I hope?

    Absolutely no hard feelings!

    This is Marmite Bond for sure. I can get not liking it at all because of the ending. And I was sincere when I said I sympathize with folks who hate the last couple movies, because I'm sure my time will come in that regard too! And I was ready for disappointment with NTTD. I'd been spoiled about Bond's fate, and I had a sick feeling about it.

    But someone was bringing out the "real fan" card. And there are definitely many people who only really like GE and CR of the last nine movies. Comments to the effect that only Martin Campbell gets Bond, and Barbara doesn't understand/like Bond or whatever. And lots of us (myself included) tolerate a lot more silliness from classic movies we grew up with than we do from whatever the new movie is.

    But I count these folks as fans, and it seems weird to suggest I'm not a Bond fan because I like more Bond movies...! And in that specific line of mine about fan antipathy being a good sign for me, I was alluding to the fact I really like all of the hated/controversial films (DAF is my favorite Connery!). My least favorites are a few of the franchise-saving classics loved by all...so in that context I'd understand that accusation a bit more! ;)

    Anyway, it's not the first time I apparently sounded more obnoxious than intended, and I appreciate your graceful reply. Some people use online interactions to be deliberately jerky, and others sometimes come across the wrong way. I've definitely had the latter more than once. You are kind and correct to assume an in-person chat would be unambiguously lovely! :)

    Thanks @ProfJoeButcher, I appreciate that response and it summarises your feelings in a very considered and fair way.I understand where you are coming from. It just goes to show how things can easily get out of hand on here!
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    In CR the final lines features Bond saying “The name’s Bond, James Bond” to Mr. White, the grandfather of his daughter.
    In NTTD the final lines features Bond’s girlfriend and White’s daughter saying to Bond’s daughter: “His name was Bond, James Bond.

    Talking about full circle.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    matt_u wrote: »
    In CR the final lines features Bond saying “The name’s Bond, James Bond” to Mr. White, the grandfather of his daughter.
    In NTTD the final lines features Bond’s girlfriend and White’s daughter saying to Bond’s daughter: “His name was Bond, James Bond.

    Talking about full circle.

    There's lots of stuff like this in it that I noticed. It deserves a thread entirely of its own.
  • LizWLizW England
    Posts: 30
    00Heaven wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »

    I've remarked this before but the ultimate subversion for me being a woman is that I'm glad I saw this with my dad. It isn't a father/son movie.... it felt like a father/daughter movie. It'll annoy so many people but I don't give a damn.

    My dad loved Bond movies: we always watched them on Christmas afternoon. He died in 2014 but we still watch a Bond film on Christmas afternoon and definitely NTTD will be one of those in the future. Women sometimes aren't supposed to like Bond because it's a male fantasy, but what people don't realise is that as a girl, quite often you want to be the hero and will identify with Bond (if not his sexist behaviour) rather than the Bond 'girls.' If that makes people uncomfortable, tough.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 87
    matt_u wrote: »

    What’s the problem? NTTD is designed to be the most unique entry ever. This feelings fit this entry. They don’t fit the previous.

    I see the problem in that any new movie should do not interfere with both Fleming's books and the previous movies, I think. If this is not to be the case, then with each new actor should there be a reset of the formula (of the movies)? So why there are references to earlier films used? Reset means reset.
    We can all see that the reset didn't really happen with Craig's Bond. So where did the idea for NTTD come from?
  • Posts: 2,402
    Also, while I'm glad Safin didn't turn out to be Dr. No and never really believed he would be anyway (to the point where Fukunaga came out and flat out said he is not No), I did really enjoy
    the rounded skylight with grating over the Garden of Death that you see specifically over his head in a couple shots, similar to the tarantula room in DN
    .
  • NoWisemanNoWiseman Germany
    edited October 2021 Posts: 34
    Bueno1694 wrote: »
    Daniel Craig as Bond is my hero (yes, I’m 45, you can laugh).

    Just signed in only to respond to this. I know exactly, what you mean. I'm in a bad mood since 3 days now after watching the film. Once you've seen it, it sticks with you. For gods sake i'm a 51 year old man and i feel kind of traumatized. No movie in the world should do this to me. I'm sad, frustrated and angry at the same time. This character and the love for the movies accompanied my life for over 40 years now. But as of now i don't want to see a Bond movie ever again. Believe me, it's rubbish to feel this way.

  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 948
    Also, while I'm glad Safin didn't turn out to be Dr. No and never really believed he would be anyway (to the point where Fukunaga came out and flat out said he is not No), I did really enjoy
    the rounded skylight with grating over the Garden of Death that you see specifically over his head in a couple shots, similar to the tarantula room in DN
    .

    The set design, lighting, cinematography in general... loved that side of the film.
  • Apologies if this is already covered... Did anyone spot Michael G Wilson's cameo?
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    Apologies if this is already covered... Did anyone spot Michael G Wilson's cameo?

    Yes, the bit where Bond enters the Spectre party in Cuba.. As he walks through MGW is staring right at him in the left side of the shot.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 53
    Seen it last night. Thought it was smashing. This is likely going to turn into a bit of a rambling essay as I compile my thoughts as I go along, but here it goes:

    Completely understand the disappointment from those who have seen it, who hold in their opinion what they think the ideal formula ought to be. My general and gentle counter argument to that would be that Daniel Craig's era has been inclined about breaking the formula. Be it "Bond begins", Bond bleeds, an attempt to emulate the Bourne style with QoS, killing off M, making Blofeld an adoptive brother, etc, etc. The ending, in my mind, with all things considered about it, fit this particular era, this particular batch of storylines.

    Daniel Craig was the soft reset, it wasn't meant to fit in with the (very very very loose) continuity of the other 5. Any references to those films of bygone years were purely for nostalgic nods to the fans, not a sense that this was the "same" James bond. Hell. I've been more disappointed at times in the past when it was meant to be the same and the total tonal shift that created - Diamonds are forever following OHMSS for example: "I'll drown a Blofeld clone in mud for killing my wife on our wedding day (in one of the darkest stories), then next time we meet I'll kill his other clone by kicking his cat, whilst having a perfectly rational conversation with a man so so evil he later dresses in drag and says with all seriousness 'prepare my bathosub'... And oh, he now has a different face... and so do I!!! (in one of the campest stories of the series) "... I mean?!? These were meant to be the exact same people. As was Pierce Brosnan kite surfing a tsunami, Roger Moore floating round in space and Timothy Dalton igniting Sanchez. It was unfeasible when you remove your Bond Head. Casino Royale to NTTD was an attempt to be somewhat feasible, in its own little bubble which, as all bubbles do, had to form and burst.

    Because the Daniel Craig era, at least in hindsight (and whilst definitely cobbled together as they went along) at least has its own story and attempt at continuity going with it. The good thing for me about killing him off, is the next bond won't have all this baggage. He can go back to being the blunt instrument without the ghost of Vesper hanging over him. He can go back to being solitary without having to fear for his daughter. We can go back to a time where the worlds greatest super villains arent people who have a jealousy of bond or his love interest . Each film could be standalone. Or alternatively, they could do similar again - but different. Or better. But the key thing is , it will be without all the baggage of this batch of five films where they purposely, it would seem, tried to keep doing something different. And so by default, kept putting a noose around the neck with too much weight to keep carrying over. Now, that weight is gone and it all starts anew. A new actor would merely be emulating Daniel Craig I feel, be bound by all these controversial story beats, had they stepped into his specific continuity line. It would be unavoidable. Unfeasible. In killing him off, they now don't have to worry about that. Everyone now knows that whomever comes in, it'll be another alternate take on the James Bond character

    For those who haven't seen it, but have been spoiled, I understand your apprehension. If someone told me up front what was going to happen - as much as I suspected it might (and for me, the title sequence with its fallen symbol of Britain confirmed my suspicions) - it would perhaps have soured my expectation. But I went into the film having recently rewatched the 24 others. And you see the shift between the old and the new. You see how Daniel Craig was intended to be its own batch in the general continuity which, when considered, couldn't be continuity anyways... the series has always subconsciously asked for a suspension of disbelief to believe it was, stretching from 60s to 00s. Now we have a little box set of 5, telling their own story . Starting it. And for once - ending it.

    Did they need to kill him off (a question Fleming himself had difficulty over)? Well no. They didn't need to make any of the choices they have over the last 15 years. But the ones they have fit together (sometimes forcibly) and this was the ending these stories, when reviewed outside the bias mind of a die hard bond fan (of which, I am), had to lead to. Whether it's execution throughout was ideal, or not. So I would say, don't let the spoilers turn you away from seeing it. Could it be depressing for you? It could sure, of course it could when the character means so much. But whilst I felt a bit of melancholy - after sleeping on it particular, I see why they done this. I see it makes sense in order to ensure that , with a new face, a new timeline: "James Bond will return".

    And if you don't watch it, I feel you're genuinely missing out on some of the best in the series for the sake of Daniel Craig's ending. As much as I've talked about the main controversial plot point I really don't want to go into detail about the film itself as there is so much in there, especially the action scenes, that words alone cannot do credit. You simply have to see it. From the much hyped car chase scenes highlighted in all the trailers, to Cuba, to the very creepy beginning and very controversial ending. There is a lot of enjoyment to have (even if you want to try and come up with a scenario to ignore the finality of it all. Fleming did, after all, when he toyed with the idea of finishing Bond once and for all).

    This isn't your father's James Bond no. Just as this won't be the next generations James Bond. Thats kind of how this series has survived. And why Bond himself in this particular film has not. Other interpretations of the character have, and will. And we will all continue to have our varied and strong opinions of each and every actor, each and every movie. Some will passionately defend NTTD as much as some will stare on in disbelief when others say they don't rate FRWL, or think DAD is misunderstood. That's the nature of this series. There's something for everyone, even if every one can't provide the something all are looking for. And now this era is finalised and the series moves on afresh, because it must. And whatever that afresh may be, it will be tremendously exciting to see how it will pan out.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited October 2021 Posts: 5,185
    Had my first viewing at the Albert Hall on premiere night which was a mindblowing experience, but i struggled with the ending for days, couldn't stop thinking about it. Didn't really get it either.

    But on second watch, on Friday in my home town cinema, it completely clicked. You need to see the movie with the ending in mind to understand the structure, and the heroes journey. That way it makes sense, and i wasn't even sad at the end. It's easily the most profound ending to a Bond film ever (which obviously isn't saying much really), and it's uplifting in a way. I definitly felt much better about it this time.
    In his final moments, James Bond realizes what matters most to him in life, and what all this "jumping and fighting" was about, he's fully realized as a character, the hero's journey is complete. Narratively there is nowhere left to go. Daniel plays it confidently and self assured, he is not a victim of his circumstances. He makes a decision here.

    If he can't live with what he treasures most (and he knows that life from Jamaica), he rather goes out in a blaze of glory, as he always knew he would (and secretly strived for in Flemings writing). It's an exclamation mark of an ending to his Bond and very fitting to Craigs tenure in my opinion. But since this is uncharted territory, it's natural that it will divide and piss off a lot of people... for a while at least.

    I'm not bothered by the dying part anymore because i see it more as a metaphor, James Bond has fullfilled his purpose and completed his journey. You couldn't have him drive off into the sunset with Madeline once more, if you prefer that ending you can watch Spectre and pretend that NTTD never happened.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    Seen it last night. Thought it was smashing. This is likely going to turn into a bit of a rambling essay as I compile my thoughts as I go along, but here it goes:

    Completely understand the disappointment from those who have seen it, who hold in their opinion what they think the ideal formula ought to be. My general and gentle counter argument to that would be that Daniel Craig's era has been inclined about breaking the formula. Be it "Bond begins", Bond bleeds, an attempt to emulate the Bourne style with QoS, killing off M, making Blofeld an adoptive brother, etc, etc. The ending, in my mind, with all things considered about it, fit this particular era, this particular batch of storylines.

    Daniel Craig was the soft reset, it wasn't meant to fit in with the (very very very loose) continuity of the other 5. Any references to those films of bygone years were purely for nostalgic nods to the fans, not a sense that this was the "same" James bond. Hell. I've been more disappointed at times in the past when it was meant to be the same and the total tonal shift that created - Diamonds are forever following OHMSS for example: "I'll drown a Blofeld clone in mud for killing my wife on our wedding day (in one of the darkest stories), then next time we meet I'll kill his other clone by kicking his cat, whilst having a perfectly rational conversation with a man so so evil he later dresses in drag and says with all seriousness 'prepare my bathosub'... And oh, he now has a different face... and so do I!!! (in one of the campest stories of the series) "... I mean?!? These were meant to be the exact same people. As was Pierce Brosnan kite surfing a tsunami, Roger Moore floating round in space and Timothy Dalton igniting Sanchez. It was unfeasible when you remove your Bond Head. Casino Royale to NTTD was an attempt to be somewhat feasible, in its own little bubble which, as all bubbles do, had to form and burst.

    Because the Daniel Craig era, at least in hindsight (and whilst definitely cobbled together as they went along) at least has its own story and attempt at continuity going with it. The good thing for me about killing him off, is the next bond won't have all this baggage. He can go back to being the blunt instrument without the ghost of Vesper hanging over him. He can go back to being solitary without having to fear for his daughter. We can go back to a time where the worlds greatest super villains arent people who have a jealousy of bond or his love interest . Each film could be standalone. Or alternatively, they could do similar again - but different. Or better. But the key thing is , it will be without all the baggage of this batch of five films where they purposely, it would seem, tried to keep doing something different. And so by default, kept putting a noose around the neck with too much weight to keep carrying over. Now, that weight is gone and it all starts anew. A new actor would merely be emulating Daniel Craig I feel, be bound by all these controversial story beats, had they stepped into his specific continuity line. It would be unavoidable. Unfeasible. In killing him off, they now don't have to worry about that. Everyone now knows that whomever comes in, it'll be another alternate take on the James Bond character

    For those who haven't seen it, but have been spoiled, I understand your apprehension. If someone told me up front what was going to happen - as much as I suspected it might (and for me, the title sequence with its fallen symbol of Britain confirmed my suspicions) - it would perhaps have soured my expectation. But I went into the film having recently rewatched the 24 others. And you see the shift between the old and the new. You see how Daniel Craig was intended to be its own batch in the general continuity which, when considered, couldn't be continuity anyways... the series has always subconsciously asked for a suspension of disbelief to believe it was, stretching from 60s to 00s. Now we have a little box set of 5, telling their own story . Starting it. And for once - ending it.

    Did they need to kill him off (a question Fleming himself had difficulty over)? Well no. They didn't need to make any of the choices they have over the last 15 years. But the ones they have fit together (sometimes forcibly) and this was the ending these stories, when reviewed outside the bias mind of a die hard bond fan (of which, I am), had to lead to. Whether it's execution throughout was ideal, or not. So I would say, don't let the spoilers turn you away from seeing it. Could it be depressing for you? It could sure, of course it could when the character means so much. But whilst I felt a bit of melancholy - after sleeping on it particular, I see why they done this. I see it makes sense in order to ensure that , with a new face, a new timeline: "James Bond will return".

    And if you don't watch it, I feel you're genuinely missing out on some of the best in the series for the sake of Daniel Craig's ending. As much as I've talked about the main controversial plot point I really don't want to go into detail about the film itself as there is so much in there, especially the action scenes, that words alone cannot do credit. You simply have to see it. From the much hyped car chase scenes highlighted in all the trailers, to Cuba, to the very creepy beginning and very controversial ending. There is a lot of enjoyment to have (even if you want to try and come up with a scenario to ignore the finality of it all. Fleming did, after all, when he toyed with the idea of finishing Bond once and for all).

    This isn't your father's James Bond no. Just as this won't be the next generations James Bond. Thats kind of how this series has survived. And why Bond himself in this particular film has not. Other interpretations of the character have, and will. And we will all continue to have our varied and strong opinions of each and every actor, each and every movie. Some will passionately defend NTTD as much as some will stare on in disbelief when others say they don't rate FRWL, or think DAD is misunderstood. That's the nature of this series. There's something for everyone, even if every one can't provide the something all are looking for. And now this era is finalised and the series moves on afresh, because it must. And whatever that afresh may be, it will be tremendously exciting to see how it will pan out.

    Absolutely cracking post. Spot on.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,714
    Seen it last night. Thought it was smashing. This is likely going to turn into a bit of a rambling essay as I compile my thoughts as I go along, but here it goes:

    Hardly rambling! Terrific post.

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