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The reason why they didn't kill off any previous Bonds was because they knew it would undermine the entire series regardless of continuity issues. The series hinged on Bond's aura of immortality. Like someone else said here, it was basically an unwritten rule of the franchise. With this movie they just decided to destroy that, like a controlled demolition.
I'm seeing a lot of comments like, "I'm still trying to process this but maybe it'll grow on me," "I hated the ending but maybe they had to," etc. It just seems like people are forcing themselves to accept it.
He wasn't Blofeld, he was Franz Oberhauser, Bond's (*cringe*) neurotic adoptive brother who assumed the name Blofeld. I took it as more of a nod to Blofeld than an actual portrayal of him, and it's just one of the many reasons why SF and SP were so incoherent.
There would be no reason to promote this movie as “the epic conclusion” if they’re just going to continue this storyline with an entirely different actor as Bond.
Great write up, I had a feeling you would like NTTD as your opinion of the DC era is similar to mine, this film sits nicely with DC's first two films for me. I think DC performance is incredible in NTTD after subsequent views I think it will be his best.
My eyes welled up a few times during the film which rarely happen to me in the cinema, I was locked into the film emotionally from the start I think that may have a bearing on whether someone likes the film. Madeline was night and day compared to SP, I fully believed in her relationship with Bond in NTTD.
Great photo mate, great you can share that moment with your daughter.
I say it constantly lol but if any of these people were in charge of the Bond franchise we’d have just watched the 24th remake of Dr. No.
@DoctorKaufmann, that's what some of us have been doing the last week or two - on either side, of course. There's no sense in using personal attacks against someone who loves the ending or hates it. It's understandable to be passionate and opinionated but when it turns personal, that's when we take issue.
There were definitely plenty of moments in the movie where I could have teared up. If I were alone, I probably would have. Bond finding Madeleine again in Norway was one I remembered, and of course the ending.
I don't think so, it's not personal, it's just that some of the uber-traditionalists want formulaic Bond films to a fault (IMO).
I apologize @Zekidk if it came across that way. I thought my comment was comparatively level-headed given some of the others I've seen in this thread (not yours), but I could have been mistaken.
Thanks for reading! And yes, that seems to be the case, but at the end of the day, I'm glad we both got some enjoyment out of it after the post-SP six year wait. It was long needed.
And let's hope that isn't the case. I don't see it cracking the Top 10 (anything can happen); my estimate is still somewhere between 11th - 15th place. It'll be hard to tell, I really do need several more viewings of it before I'll be more confident in that.
And I had heard about him getting his number back but it was nearing the end of the film so I figured maybe I misread that point. I'm glad he did (though am curious to know what his temporary number was, and if that's the same one Nomi was assigned to after he got '007' back).
In my mind the number was 0022; my favourite number! And in the Wired Auto-Correct interview with Craig and Lynch, the number 0022 did come up, so...
As it's come up again, I'll say sorry one more time to @Zekidk as I regret coming across as rude with my original comment.
I was crushed by the changed "Mommy was very bad" line from the SF trailers to the finished film (though that turned out to be the least of my issues). It's understandable!
Yes, this. I have been waiting decades for the garden of death and now we have it.
OK it’s not how I imagined it, and it’s not how Fleming did it, but I don’t care, it’s the garden of death and it’s still Fleming.
Similarly all the OHMSS references too. I went in unspoilered and I was thrilled to see the OHMSS callbacks in the titles. Would any of the twenty-somethings in the cinema at the same time spot the reference? IDK, a few might, most wouldn’t. But it doesn’t matter, because I spotted them.
Good question, still trying to process that one myself ... maybe on the non-literal level, meaning because he hadn't been around for five years - and so would have no right to any moral claim to fatherhood? Madeleine may also feel she’s protecting Mathilde from the dangerous world surrounding Bond? I mean, didn't Bond lead SPECTRE to her at the Hoffler Clinic in the previous movie? And has he done the same thing in this one?
During the Matera scene I felt emotionally overwhelmed momentarily, the music definitely got me. I have never seen OHMSS at the cinema either so I think that was partly the reason when the theme kicked in.
Follow up questions.
When Safin told Madeleine that she had compromised herself with a killer (to survive), I thought there was a 3rd mystery character waiting to be introduced. Then I thought, the father was Safin himself (which would have been creepy, but suspension of disbelief had set in for me). It wasn’t until the moment where Safin said, “Look at your father!”, when I realized what was going on.
Strangely, as someone who doesn’t like the end of the film I would say that you have this statement upside down. I joined here initially to vent my disappointment at the end of the film but also, as a bond fan, I am excited to talk bond. Unfortunately, I have found a lot of aggression pointed at those that don’t agree with Bond’s demise.
I took Madeleine's initial claim at face value. I mean, what kind of person would lie about something like that?
Perhaps one long practiced at the art of survival? And Madeleine is certainly a survivor. And a woman who has taught her own daughter how to hide.
But I remained skeptical. And I think Bond himself didn't know for sure, as in his uncertainty in how to introduce Madeleine & Mathilde to Nomi, which is a moment I loved.
And you know, except for confirming for Bond in their final dialogue scene together that Mathilde does have Bond's blue eyes (or consoling words to that effect) Madeleine never explicitly states that Mathilde is Bond's child. At least I think I'm right about that. But of course Mathilde must be, right? Could Safin be wrong or simply messing with Bond? It seems unlikely ....
You know, until the Craig arc, I don't think we've really had much deliberate ambiguity in the series - though, of course, it just might be narrative incompetence in this instance. But either way, I had trouble making out some of the dialogue and will benefit tremendously from future subtitles/captions.
The main rankle I have with it is why is Bond so quick to blame Madeleine for the Spectre assassins? He doesn't even give her a chance to explain before dumping her on a train with "You'll never see me again.."
If he had those sort of trust issues even after she saved him from Blofelds torture, then what realistic chance did they have?!!!
It's possible I missed something, and if I did all clarifications are welcome...😁
Same here. Would like to know, whether it really was B oyle's refusa to let Bond die, mor whether uit was Boyle refusing to have the script revised and changed, or whether it was the casting of Tomasz Kot. Funnily, some days ago I found two articles about Boyle and Bond from the same source, the first one from 2018, where they wrote, that Boyle actually wanted Bond to be killed. In 2019/2020, the same source mentioned Boyle's refusal to have Bond killed as the reason for him walking out. Now, I can't find these articles anymore, other wise I would posted them. But maybe I will find them again.
But, yes, would be great to know the Boyle/Hodge script.
Yepp, he got shot several times by Safin and was bleeding out, maybe he would have died as a matter of these wounds?
Those wounds absolutely would've killed him. I don't see any scenario where he re-opens the blast doors, escapes the island, avoids the explosions, gets back to Nomi/Q/whatever and is treated for his wounds. If the missiles didn't kill him, the gunshot wounds were going to.
I don't believe Cleese as Q would have worked with Craig, because of Cleese's pythonesque way of acting. Or maybe his Fawltyness.