No Time To Die: Why It Should Not Have Been Made (The Way It Was)

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  • "Get out of the Sour Milk Sea...You don't belong there..."
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    edited November 2021 Posts: 541
    Maybe it was because he was the first Bond she cast.

    Because Craig was the first Bond actor in over 40 years to deliver 2 classics. And played the role convincingly. And cracked a billion.

    People on this forum are saying that Craig was sort of just forced because Barbara was personally obsessed with him. But it's not just Barbara. Millions of people love Craig as Bond to a greater extent than the 4 previous actors.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    I'm amazed by the idea that every time EON made a dopey move, they were rewarded with great box office.
    Let's make a James Bond Star Wars movie! A hit.
    Let's make our new Bond a washed up loser who gets M killed! A hit.
    Let's kill the rest of the characters & go full-on soap! A hit.
    8-|
  • M16_Cart wrote: »
    Maybe it was because he was the first Bond she cast.

    Because Craig was the first Bond actor in over 40 years to deliver 2 classics. And played the role convincingly. And cracked a billion.

    “Classic” purely comes down to individual taste tbh. Like I think TLD and LTK are both Classics. Brosnan’s first 3 are classics (flaws and all). Nothing to take away from Craig of coarse, but it’s not like he’s the first Bond to deliver highly entertaining films since those 40 years.
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    I'm amazed by the idea that every time EON made a dopey move, they were rewarded with great box office.
    Let's make a James Bond Star Wars movie! A hit.
    Let's make our new Bond a washed up loser who gets M killed! A hit.
    Let's kill the rest of the characters & go full-on soap! A hit.
    8-|

    Let's have our new Bond get married -- and his wife gets killed in the final minutes of the movie! And we'll make it really faithful to the Ian Fleming novel! BIG dud...

    Why do you suppose that is? Maybe Eon has the right idea in not always listening to the fans...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I'm amazed by the idea that every time EON made a dopey move, they were rewarded with great box office.
    Let's make a James Bond Star Wars movie! A hit.
    Let's make our new Bond a washed up loser who gets M killed! A hit.
    Let's kill the rest of the characters & go full-on soap! A hit.
    8-|

    Let's have our new Bond get married -- and his wife gets killed in the final minutes of the movie! And we'll make it really faithful to the Ian Fleming novel! BIG dud...

    Why do you suppose that is? Maybe Eon has the right idea in not always listening to the fans...

    Stop. You know why it was a dud- audiences wanted Connery, and they weren't prepared for that level of serious yet. Hell, they still weren't in 1989...
    Hey Beatles, you seem to like my thread. I'm honoured!
  • Just because I'm talking about it doesn't mean I like it. There seem to be a lot of you talking about NTTD that don't like it... :)>-
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    Just because I'm talking about it doesn't mean I like it. There seem to be a lot of you talking about NTTD that don't like it... :)>-

    Beatles, why the chip on your shoulder? Are you angry that NTTD has made some people angry-? I don't get it. You used to be much nicer for me to converse with....
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    Some of us love the film, some of us hate the film. And I have read pretty good arguments from both sides, more than ever in this thread. What I don't really get is the belief that the series will not and can not recover from this. In the late sixties, some said Bond wouldn't survive the following decade, and even with films deemed by many to be mediocre or even bad, Bond persisted. There's something about Bond that works, that makes the brand perfectly resilient. NTTD surely won't be the end of it.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    I'm sure you can find someone who said "the franchise will never recover from this" after every single Bond film.
  • Posts: 1,394
    This Thread: Why I Won't Complain That It Exists -- If all the NTTD haters just expend their vitriol here and leave the rest of the forum clear of their negativity, then fine. I've got no problem. Have fun & have at it.

    You can’t expect negative comments about NTTD to just be in this thread.Any discussion of the film on these boards is going to bring up negative comments from its critics.

    If Brosnan bashing is allowed on these Boards then Craig/NTTD bashing is allowed also.All we can do is expect people to respect each other’s opinion.There are fans here who love NTTD and I’m happy for them.I’m not one of them though.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    This Thread: Why I Won't Complain That It Exists -- If all the NTTD haters just expend their vitriol here and leave the rest of the forum clear of their negativity, then fine. I've got no problem. Have fun & have at it.

    You can’t expect negative comments about NTTD to just be in this thread.Any discussion of the film on these boards is going to bring up negative comments from its critics.

    If Brosnan bashing is allowed on these Boards then Craig/NTTD bashing is allowed also.All we can do is expect people to respect each other’s opinion.There are fans here who love NTTD and I’m happy for them.I’m not one of them though.

    Certainly. And, in fairness, it must be a little tough to have serious problems with this film in a community that is going to be mostly fans (probably) of any new material that comes out. I think this thread is a great idea, a sort of mini-community within the community where people can air grievances and problems with the film and not be continually rebuffed by those who like the film.

    Of course negative opinions are welcome all around the forum, but if a thread like this can act like a lightning rod for them, or even a place to return to where you know people are more likely to be like-minded, then that's a great thing.

    I wonder if it would have been a good idea to have a thread like this, or an "Everything WRONG with NTTD" thread from the get go
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    What I don't really get is the belief that the series will not and can not recover from this.

    Because in an era where so many beloved franchises in recent memory have been getting
    tainted by poor sequels and adaptations, having Bond follow suit with the same boneheaded decisions make me dread what the future will bring. Maybe that's just me being cynical but however they reboot Bond next, I don't see it going in a direction I'm going to enjoy. I think they are only going to double down on the melodrama from the Craig movies that have sadly been all too successful. I hope I'm wrong though.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 1,078
    I wonder if it would have been a good idea to have a thread like this, or an "Everything WRONG with NTTD" thread from the get go

    Good thinking.

    I'd have spent a lot less time being unpopular on the 'first impressions' thread! (I'm joking a bit).
    I liked a lot of the movie, and I thought the nanobots idea was inspired. It's was bonkers, sure, but it was a good idea. If they hadn't have blown up daddy James Bond, the movie would have always been seen as "the one with the nanobots".
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    Murdock wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    What I don't really get is the belief that the series will not and can not recover from this.

    Because in an era where so many beloved franchises in recent memory have been getting
    tainted by poor sequels and adaptations, having Bond follow suit with the same boneheaded decisions make me dread what the future will bring. Maybe that's just me being cynical but however they reboot Bond next, I don't see it going in a direction I'm going to enjoy. I think they are only going to double down on the melodrama from the Craig movies that have sadly been all too successful. I hope I'm wrong though.

    So do I, my good friend. 😉
  • I'm sure you can find someone who said "the franchise will never recover from this" after every single Bond film.

    Yeah, I left DAD with my head spinning...and though no more, end my misery now....
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,516
    I am happy there make another. Already said before i have a litle peace with his death because Fleming died at of 56 almoost 57 and now Bond too with 25th.

    A problem i have with it is that with his death that every set up is trown a way so easy. Felix death i have more problems with on this moment. Blofeld death i don't understand after all screaming that aloud to use him again whyle of course there is always DAF twist.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    Blofeld's death is easily the most problematic death for me of NTTD.
  • Blofeld's death is easily the most problematic death for me of NTTD.

    Maybe not as flashy as being dumped down a chimney but I can't blame Bond for choking him, if someone told me 'cuckoo' I'd have a fit too.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 7,547
    Blofeld's death is easily the most problematic death for me of NTTD.

    Maybe not as flashy as being dumped down a chimney but I can't blame Bond for choking him, if someone told me 'cuckoo' I'd have a fit too.

    Choking him, no problem. That's not so much what killed him as Heracles.

    I feel like Heracles passed through Spectre from MI6 on it's way to Safin; you'd think they would have programmed a "Blofeld Fail-Safe", so that he and his genetics would be permanently immune or something.

    God damn NTTD, terrible film. ;)
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    To reiterate what some have said, I think this thread is a win-win for members, mods, and casual browsers. If you don’t like the film, and want to air your grievances, this is the outlet to do so. Keeps down conflict between the pro-NTTD and anti-NTTD folks. I wanted this film to be the best Bond ever, waited 6 looong years to see it. The payoff was about as far from what I wanted as possible. I envy those that enjoyed the film, I truly do. Cultural and thematic norms have shifted greatly over the last six years. I think that is highly evident and reflected in NTTD.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 541
    “Classic” purely comes down to individual taste tbh.

    I think we define the word classic differently. By classic, I mean cultural impact, critical acclaim, influence. How it affects the landscape overall. Not just one person's opinion.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 3,566
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Just because I'm talking about it doesn't mean I like it. There seem to be a lot of you talking about NTTD that don't like it... :)>-

    Beatles, why the chip on your shoulder? Are you angry that NTTD has made some people angry-? I don't get it. You used to be much nicer for me to converse with....

    Just kidding, chris. I'm happy to have a conversation that doesn't devolve into name calling and finger pointing. The problem for me is, too many people make their point over and over and over again, the same point every time. It gets monotonous. I say my piece, respond to a few others making theirs.....and then go away for a few weeks. When I come back, it's the same people with the same point. You don't like NTTD. Sorry you don't like it, I hope the next one is more to your liking. But really, morning noon & night the same chorus: "I'll never see a Bond film again!" Really? Well then, I guess it's no use of me hoping the next one is more to your liking because you won't be in the theater to see it. You'll be in the forum complaining still, years later, raving about how awful NTTD was.

    Not "you," specifically, just, y'know, SOME people. We're still good. Even if you DO like MR & it's not too high on my list. Hopefully, before too much longer, the forum's discussion of NTTD will be at a similar level of heat to that of MR or DAD or QoS.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    To reiterate what some have said, I think this thread is a win-win for members, mods, and casual browsers. If you don’t like the film, and want to air your grievances, this is the outlet to do so. Keeps down conflict between the pro-NTTD and anti-NTTD folks. I wanted this film to be the best Bond ever, waited 6 looong years to see it. The payoff was about as far from what I wanted as possible. I envy those that enjoyed the film, I truly do. Cultural and thematic norms have shifted greatly over the last six years. I think that is highly evident and rejected in NTTD.

    Exactly. And I wouldn't want it to seem like negative opinions are only welcome in here; but just for this thread to sort of act as a pressure-release.
  • AstonLotus wrote: »
    This Thread: Why I Won't Complain That It Exists -- If all the NTTD haters just expend their vitriol here and leave the rest of the forum clear of their negativity, then fine. I've got no problem. Have fun & have at it.

    If Brosnan bashing is allowed on these Boards then Craig/NTTD bashing is allowed also.All we can do is expect people to respect each other’s opinion.There are fans here who love NTTD and I’m happy for them.I’m not one of them though.

    The point is, I'm not in favor Brosnan bashing either. I've defended him many times....gone away for a few months... and when I drop back in on those threads, it's the same people with the same lines. Aw, geeze, could you just give the painfaces a rest for awhile? It gets old, that's all...
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,844
    "Get out of the Sour Milk Sea...You don't belong there..."

    A nice reference there @BeatlesSansEarmuffs. George H. would be proud. ^:)^

    For what its' worth I spoke to a fellow Bond fan earlier this week since he finally got a chance to see NTTD. He hated it - and Bond's death was the sole reason why. "They killed the franchise !!!!", he complained. Then I asked him what he thought of the film prior to the ending, he told me: ".....I actually enjoyed it.

    As for my thoughts, IF Daniel was going to come back for a fifth film, I don't see how you bring "his" character full circle, other than by the way EON/DC decided on. Ride off into the sunset with the Bond Girl on his arms? It's been done.

    Maybe, I reconsider after I buy the DVD and have a chance to watch NTTD several times, but for now I think of the whole Craig era as a self-contained series.
  • Posts: 526
    To reiterate what some have said, I think this thread is a win-win for members, mods, and casual browsers. If you don’t like the film, and want to air your grievances, this is the outlet to do so. Keeps down conflict between the pro-NTTD and anti-NTTD folks. I wanted this film to be the best Bond ever, waited 6 looong years to see it. The payoff was about as far from what I wanted as possible. I envy those that enjoyed the film, I truly do. Cultural and thematic norms have shifted greatly over the last six years. I think that is highly evident and rejected in NTTD.

    Exactly. And I wouldn't want it to seem like negative opinions are only welcome in here; but just for this thread to sort of act as a pressure-release.

    Thumbs up my friend. Yes.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 2,266
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    “Classic” purely comes down to individual taste tbh.

    I think we define the word classic differently. By classic, I mean cultural impact, critical acclaim, influence. How it affects the landscape overall. Not just one person's opinion.

    Perhaps that’s how you define the word, what’s classic to one person isn’t to another. There are plenty of films that didn’t have any of that at the time of their release, but are still regarded as Classics. If going by your definitions, the Dalton films are classics because how the positive reactions from critics and the hardcore fanbase at the time of their releases, and have in some way, paved the way for Craig’s run, so that accounts for Acclaim and Influence. The Brosnan era was the 2nd Big Cultural Phenomenon that happened within the franchise, as each film after Goldeneye kept making more money at the box office, and they had a huge impact at that time, introducing an entire new generation to Bond, so that accounts for Pop Cultural Impact. You’re welcome to disagree, but I’m just stating why I don’t think Craig’s era has been the only era in about 40 years to deliver “Classics.” Again this isn’t meant to take anything away from Craig, but to downplay the success and impacts of some of the other actors and their films just doesn’t ring true with me.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    “Classic” purely comes down to individual taste tbh.

    I think we define the word classic differently. By classic, I mean cultural impact, critical acclaim, influence. How it affects the landscape overall. Not just one person's opinion.

    Perhaps that’s how you define the word, what’s classic to one person isn’t to another. There are plenty of films that didn’t have any of that at the time of their release, but are still regarded as Classics. If going by your definitions, the Dalton films are classics because how the positive reactions from critics and the hardcore fanbase at the time of their releases, and have in some way, paved the way for Craig’s run, so that accounts for Acclaim and Influence. The Brosnan era was the 2nd Big Cultural Phenomenon that happened within the franchise, as each film after Goldeneye kept making more money at the box office, and they had a huge impact at that time, introducing an entire new generation to Bond, so that accounts for Pop Cultural Impact. You’re welcome to disagree, but I’m just stating why I don’t think Craig’s era has been the only era in about 40 years to deliver “Classics.” Again this isn’t meant to take anything away from Craig, but to downplay the success and impacts of some of the other actors and their films just doesn’t ring true with me.

    Someone made a good point on here about what makes a ‘classic.’ Do you expect to eventually see this film on Turner Classic Movies? I believe that’s a good gage. I think @007ClassicBondFan makes a great rubric for a classic in his first paragraph above.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    I mean, it's right in his name!
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