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It Seems There Are More QoS Appreciators Than Thought Before

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  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    It was the critical beatdown dished out to QOS by journalists. Dunno what the world media are like but knowing what British journalists are like, I suspect that would've happened no matter what film had followed CR. Craig's first film was universally praised, so the second one had to get a kicking no matter what. It's the way these people work. Unfortunately, EON seemed to take it as valid criticism of QOS itself and it scared them back down the more familiar path of lighter and dafter elements and weak gags. Mendes didn't seem to grasp what was great about CR and QOS, but did seem to have a Bond wishlist that he wanted to tick off even if it wasn't appropriate for CraigBond. 'Go on then, eject me,' indeed. Pffft.

    Pretty much spot on 👍

    Indeed! And this what is called wasted potential for Craig's Bond. Fanboys directing the series never help...checklists ticking off and Lee Tamahori clones who even make the producers roll their eyes during production.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Bond fans were also very critical of QOS, not just journalists. I remember lots of “worst since DAD” comments back in 2008.

    Social media has helped band together QOS fans, but I don’t see much reappraisal. Only OHMSS ever got that. LTK is still polarizing to this day, and I imagine QOS will remain for many years. It lacks the elegance of all the other Craig films.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Yes, one of my big disappointments was when actual Bond fans started voicing the same criticisms that were in the media. I loved QOS so much that at first I even believed they must all be casuals just piling on and repeating stuff they'd heard in the media. Surely they'd recognise the brilliance of QOS if they were 'real' Bond fans ?! Etc. Took me a while to grasp that I was totally wrong and that these were real Bond fans and there were genuine issues that they had with QOS that'd really spoiled the film for them. Anything that actively ruins a whole film for a wide swathe of fans is obviously 'not goood' - and one reason I'd love a QOS Redux is because it might help a lot more people come to love it. That'd be a good thing, right?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Comments on QOS after all this time are pretty positive.

    And now the criticisms for years will be directed at NTTD.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzLT6_TQmq8
    PepperyPepperyFish-max-1mb.gif

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I was the one that brought up the idea of an alternate cut. I don’t think EON will ever do it. And to clarify, I said what I want is the raw footage of QOS to assemble an edit of my own just for fun. Re-editing films can be a fun past time for me. I made a hybrid cut of SUPERMAN II integrating both cuts because I always felt both of them were severely flawed and that a better film existed between the two. Editing QOS in the same style as CR/SF/SP/NTTD would be an interesting experiment. I don’t even know if the raw footage would even work without the fast cutting.
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I was the one that brought up the idea of an alternate cut. I don’t think EON will ever do it. And to clarify, I said what I want is the raw footage of QOS to assemble an edit of my own just for fun. Re-editing films can be a fun past time for me. I made a hybrid cut of SUPERMAN II integrating both cuts because I always felt both of them were severely flawed and that a better film existed between the two. Editing QOS in the same style as CR/SF/SP/NTTD would be an interesting experiment. I don’t even know if the raw footage would even work without the fast cutting.

    Speaking of footage....cinematography is a strength of the DC films with each having been shot by someone different.


    Here is my recommendation for the next one if it must be a newcomer: Ricardo Diaz. He establishes some memorable shots to set up each scene in hi6 most recent film which I don't want to promote here.


    The cinematography in QoS was enhanced by David Arnold's music. You could feel the sad somberness of a village losing its water while Bond and Camille each are lost and trying to find their way physically out of the desert and also metaphorically to solace. The music Camille's Story gives you a sense of being lost while sad. It even ends with a few notes of the Vesper theme....
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I watched QOS last night for the first time in a while, I really enjoyed it. It's a great Bond with some obvious flaws that would have been buffed out in one last polish. If the action scenes had been edited a bit better maybe as well, but it's a minor cripe I have.

    I forgot how great Daniel's performance is in this film and how much I like Camile as a character. Such a shame they didn't have the rights to Spectre at this point, it feels like it's missing a scene where Greene is warned by the organisation and maybe even killed by a henchman, because he is a weak villain and it would have made more sense if there were people above him we knew of
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,007
    "The cinematography in QoS was enhanced by David Arnold's music. You could feel the sad somberness of a village losing its water while Bond and Camille each are lost and trying to find their way physically out of the desert and also metaphorically to solace..."

    Well put @dramaticscenesofQOS

    One of my favourite Arnold tracks.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I was the one that brought up the idea of an alternate cut. I don’t think EON will ever do it. And to clarify, I said what I want is the raw footage of QOS to assemble an edit of my own just for fun. Re-editing films can be a fun past time for me. I made a hybrid cut of SUPERMAN II integrating both cuts because I always felt both of them were severely flawed and that a better film existed between the two. Editing QOS in the same style as CR/SF/SP/NTTD would be an interesting experiment. I don’t even know if the raw footage would even work without the fast cutting.
    My respect for you just doubled, my fine sir!

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    christopher-reeve-superman.gif
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    edited February 2022 Posts: 1,282
    Fel
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I was the one that brought up the idea of an alternate cut. I don’t think EON will ever do it. And to clarify, I said what I want is the raw footage of QOS to assemble an edit of my own just for fun. Re-editing films can be a fun past time for me. I made a hybrid cut of SUPERMAN II integrating both cuts because I always felt both of them were severely flawed and that a better film existed between the two. Editing QOS in the same style as CR/SF/SP/NTTD would be an interesting experiment. I don’t even know if the raw footage would even work without the fast cutting.
    My respect for you just doubled, my fine sir!

    Same here.....


    Also, on another note....SF is missing a dinner scene between Bond, M, and Kinkade. They spent enough time in that place for it.



    Anyone notice?????? Cyclops looks a lot like Yusef.....
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    Just saw an archived article by Hollywood Reporter from October 2002 from an industry insider who was congratulating the producers for DAD saying it was a good film and raising hopes for audiences.....what a terrible waste. These are the same critics and insiders who gave QoS a bad reputation when it first came out....QoS is far better and well-made compared to DAD.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    The first half of DAD is far better than the whole of QOS.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The first half of DAD is far better than the whole of QOS.

    As much as I respect you, I beg to disagree. But I can see why you feel that way.
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    Fel
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I was the one that brought up the idea of an alternate cut. I don’t think EON will ever do it. And to clarify, I said what I want is the raw footage of QOS to assemble an edit of my own just for fun. Re-editing films can be a fun past time for me. I made a hybrid cut of SUPERMAN II integrating both cuts because I always felt both of them were severely flawed and that a better film existed between the two. Editing QOS in the same style as CR/SF/SP/NTTD would be an interesting experiment. I don’t even know if the raw footage would even work without the fast cutting.
    My respect for you just doubled, my fine sir!

    Same here.....


    Also, on another note....SF is missing a dinner scene between Bond, M, and Kinkade. They spent enough time in that place for it.



    Anyone notice?????? Cyclops looks a lot like Yusef.....

    If Cyclops was Yusef..there would be a lot more emotional impact for audiences.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I love this Gunbarrel and the music!
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I love this Gunbarrel and the music!

    Hate it.He’s walking way too fast like it’s sped up or something and he’s slouching like Craig was just getting it over with.

  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I love this Gunbarrel and the music!

    Hate it.He’s walking way too fast like it’s sped up or something and he’s slouching like Craig was just getting it over with.

    True. It connects with the fact that production was not as fun as it was for other films such as SF for the cast and crew. Often, there were fewer than usual crew members to help make sure the actors could enjoy the experience better too.

    If you notice the facial expression in DC's face when Mathis passed away...it was well performed. But part of it is due to it being 2AM and having even fewer crew members there helping film the scene. Plus, that expression also likely involved the inner sense of dread that comes with going to sleep late and having to wake up early the next day for filming.
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,630
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I love this Gunbarrel and the music!

    Hate it.He’s walking way too fast like it’s sped up or something and he’s slouching like Craig was just getting it over with.

    True. It connects with the fact that production was not as fun as it was for other films such as SF for the cast and crew. Often, there were fewer than usual crew members to help make sure the actors could enjoy the experience better too.

    If you notice the facial expression in DC's face when Mathis passed away...it was well performed. But part of it is due to it being 2AM and having even fewer crew members there helping film the scene. Plus, that expression also likely involved the inner sense of dread that comes with going to sleep late and having to wake up early the next day for filming.

    I think the gun barrel sequence here is one of the best. Purposeful, not just ambling along, with a quick turn and shoot. Superb !
  • JimjambondJimjambond
    Posts: 328

    LeonardPine wrote: »
    Pretty good video championing Craig's second best Bond film...

    Thanks for posting this!
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    Since62 wrote: »
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I love this Gunbarrel and the music!

    Hate it.He’s walking way too fast like it’s sped up or something and he’s slouching like Craig was just getting it over with.

    True. It connects with the fact that production was not as fun as it was for other films such as SF for the cast and crew. Often, there were fewer than usual crew members to help make sure the actors could enjoy the experience better too.

    If you notice the facial expression in DC's face when Mathis passed away...it was well performed. But part of it is due to it being 2AM and having even fewer crew members there helping film the scene. Plus, that expression also likely involved the inner sense of dread that comes with going to sleep late and having to wake up early the next day for filming.

    I think the gun barrel sequence here is one of the best. Purposeful, not just ambling along, with a quick turn and shoot. Superb !

    I respect your opinion. I was just rambling about the production.
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    If Cyclops was Yusef Kabira....how would that have impacted your reaction to NTTD?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    To me it would diminish the slimy lizard Yusuf was in QOS. And be a distraction in NTTD from what was a well-presented, well-told story.

    Both characters Yusef and Primo are stronger as unique/separate.

  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    What about if there was no Fields at all in QoS?
  • ZarozzorZarozzor
    Posts: 207
    My knowledge of how this kind of stuff works is low, but I have a question about the Slate fight:

    When Bond stabs Slate in the neck (carotid?), why does he also stab him in the femoral artery when he's on the ground? Does this actually make Slate bleed out even faster? Or does Bond do it just to get him to stop kicking around?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Yes it makes Slate commit to stop the bleeding from two locations. Vain (and vein) efforts, but pretty much immobilizing the guy who's instinctively fighting to survive some last moments. Also true he'd expire faster.

    Horribly efficient.

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    The way that Bond calmly holds onto Slate til he bleeds out. Cold, man. QOS scriptwriter, Paul Haggis (a lifelong Fleming fan), said that 'my Bond is different than all the other Bonds. My Bond is an actual assassin; when he kills somebody, he does it with a knife, and it's bloody, and he pays a price. He denies that he has to pay a price, but he does.' When you look at QOS with that in mind, you can see it all through the film.
  • JimjambondJimjambond
    Posts: 328
    We need Haggis back!
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    We need Haggis back!

    100% agree with this. Haggis is very good writer and I think he made Purvis and Wade better
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,917
    Venutius wrote: »
    The way that Bond calmly holds onto Slate til he bleeds out. Cold, man. QOS scriptwriter, Paul Haggis (a lifelong Fleming fan), said that 'my Bond is different than all the other Bonds. My Bond is an actual assassin; when he kills somebody, he does it with a knife, and it's bloody, and he pays a price. He denies that he has to pay a price, but he does.' When you look at QOS with that in mind, you can see it all through the film.

    The way the character developed throughout the years, people tend to forget that. It's why when Roger Moore's Bond would make a cold-blooded kill it would be a bit more of a shock and more effective because there was so much more emphasis on his light, suave side. Or why it was awkward to shoehorn those lines in during Dalton's era when that was clearly not his strength.

    That's why with Craig if was refreshing we didn't get an unnecessary quip after a nasty bit. I see so many comments where people miss the jokes and quips. They have their place and time, but not at the expense of showing what a 00 agent has that designation for. And especially if it sounds like a dad joke.
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