Which actor would make a good Bond villain?

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  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
    Diane Lane, Winona Ryder, Melissa Benoist as American woman villains.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I can't decide whether I'd prefer Chiwetel Ejiofor as a villain or as the next M. He's a great actor and he has so much presence
  • Posts: 15,123
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I can't decide whether I'd prefer Chiwetel Ejiofor as a villain or as the next M. He's a great actor and he has so much presence

    He was rumoured (considered?) for Spectre, as Denbigh I believe. I always thought he looked too soft for a Bond villain.
  • Posts: 4,162
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I can't decide whether I'd prefer Chiwetel Ejiofor as a villain or as the next M. He's a great actor and he has so much presence

    He was rumoured (considered?) for Spectre, as Denbigh I believe. I always thought he looked too soft for a Bond villain.

    Good shout for him as M though. He'd be a young M, but with a Bond in his 30s you could do a lot with their relationship that maybe hasn't quite been done in other films.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Yeah I thought it'd be interesting to see a dynamic were M is younger and how he would interact differently with Bond. Similar to how they made Q younger in the Craig era
  • DeathToSpies84DeathToSpies84 Newton-le-Willows, England
    Posts: 257
    I joined a James Bond fan group on Facebook a few months back, and one user mentioned Armand Assante. Even though he’s 73 now, imagine him as a villain in the Dalton era. And not the hammy type villain in the awful Judge Dredd movie.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,649
    Hugh Jackman as a villain, mix it up for him, and he finally gets to almost live his Bond fantasy.
  • edited December 2022 Posts: 4,162
    I do hope whoever plays the next villain isn't picked simply to do a different variation of their previous roles. I feel the last two main Bond villains suffered because of this to an extent. Waltz, for instance, leaned very much into that 'I come across as charming and affable, but I'm actually a real b*stard' thing that he did as Hans Lander in IG, and Rami Malek broadly did a version of that weird, antisocial character archetype that he was known for in Mr. Robot when he played Safin.

    It's not even an issue of picking well known actors. Javier Bardem didn't simply rehash his performance as Anton Chigrugh in SF but played Silva as a sort of trickster. There are moments in that film where his character looks like he's having fun (yes, he's psychopathic and hell bent on revenge, but it's very different to his performance in No Country).

    As for future Bond villains, I hope we get a good old fashioned distinctive looking character actor and not an actor given scars through the make-up. I can imagine someone like Tomas Lemarquis being in a future Bond film:

    tomas-lemarquis-attends-a-global-fan-screening-of-xmen-apocalypse-at-picture-id529828358?s=612x612

    Perhaps not as the main villain, but maybe a henchman.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Good points about Javier and Silva; he's a joy to watch for sure. Maybe if Edward James Olmos was a little younger he could have made a great villain.
  • Posts: 15,123
    007HallY wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I can't decide whether I'd prefer Chiwetel Ejiofor as a villain or as the next M. He's a great actor and he has so much presence

    He was rumoured (considered?) for Spectre, as Denbigh I believe. I always thought he looked too soft for a Bond villain.

    Good shout for him as M though. He'd be a young M, but with a Bond in his 30s you could do a lot with their relationship that maybe hasn't quite been done in other films.

    Stoll think he's a bit young. And I'd like them to keep Ralph Fiennes. Whether or not as the "same" M is another matter entirely.
  • edited November 2022 Posts: 4,162
    Good points about Javier and Silva; he's a joy to watch for sure. Maybe if Edward James Olmos was a little younger he could have made a great villain.

    Yeah, I can imagine him at his Blade Runner age playing a Silva-esque villain in a Bond film.

    I hope the next Bond villain has some sense of 'fun' about them. I'm not saying they should be campy, but if done right there's something extra menacing when a villain finds some sort of joy in the horrible things they're doing. Both Waltz and Malek looked like they were taking things a bit too seriously, and Waltz's Blofeld especially would have benefited from being a bit more unhinged I feel.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I can't decide whether I'd prefer Chiwetel Ejiofor as a villain or as the next M. He's a great actor and he has so much presence

    He was rumoured (considered?) for Spectre, as Denbigh I believe. I always thought he looked too soft for a Bond villain.

    Good shout for him as M though. He'd be a young M, but with a Bond in his 30s you could do a lot with their relationship that maybe hasn't quite been done in other films.

    Stoll think he's a bit young. And I'd like them to keep Ralph Fiennes. Whether or not as the "same" M is another matter entirely.

    It depends on the direction they want to go in. Personally, I'm 100% against Fiennes returning though. Compared to Dench he's not a particularly liked version of M, not only amongst Bond fans but general moviegoers. This I think was a major reason why Dench was able to return to the part in CR. Viewers for whatever reason just seemed to warm to her version of the character, to the extent where when people thought of the typical M/Bond briefing scenes in these films they automatically thought of Judi behind the desk. It helps I think that her M, while not wholly good or perfect by any means, was essentially depicted as a character who ultimately did the right thing at the end of the day. Fienne's M is much more morally ambiguous and his interpretation never had that same sense of authority, honour or trustworthiness. Another thing that impacts this is the fact that Fiennes is an actor known for playing villains much of the time, or at the very least morally ambiguous characters. It's a difficult reputation to shake off, as seen in how they wrote his version of M. Dench by contrast, mostly because of her portrayal of M, is more known for playing similar types of authoritative roles. People inherently view these actors differently, and unfortunately Fiennes will always be viewed with less warmth, as great an actor as he is.

    Another reason is the fact that I think Bond 26 will be a harder reboot than even CR. So an entirely new MI6 cast might be needed to clearly separate it from the Craig era. Even if Fiennes returns playing a different version of M, there will always be that lingering thought that he was previously a part of those films, and like I said without that sense of inherent warmth towards the actor/their portrayal of this character, such a creative decision will always fall apart. I personally think it'd be a mistake asking him back.

    I like Fiennes. He's a great actor. But his M is by no means iconic enough to justify him returning. Short of a Bernard Lee or Judi Dench this will always be the case in this particular scenario.
  • Posts: 15,123
    I don't know, I haven't seen any general dislike towards Fiennes as M. And while he may be associated with villainous roles due to him playing Voldemort, but he played a wide variety of roles throughout his career, in a variety of genres.
  • edited November 2022 Posts: 4,162
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't know, I haven't seen any general dislike towards Fiennes as M. And while he may be associated with villainous roles due to him playing Voldemort, but he played a wide variety of roles throughout his career, in a variety of genres.

    It's not a dislike per say, but I don't think there's any particular love for his M, and he just isn't associated with the role quite as fully as Dench was post Brosnan. Like I said, short of this there's no reason for an actor to return to such a role if the series is being rebooted. If anyone from the Craig era was to return based on such criteria it'd be Wishaw as Q. I don't think this will happen going from what Wishaw has said though.

    It's also not the fact that he's played a variety of roles (which he has), but just about how he's viewed by the average moviegoer compared to Dench. On average, he's known more for playing villains than trutstworthy, authoritative figures, and I suspect this impacted how his M was written. I honestly don't think the writers would have had Dench's M be connected to the Heracles plot in quite the same way Mallory was in NTTD for example.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Before she played M, Judi Dench was known to British viewers mainly for long-running, lightweight, middle class sitcoms. It's strange to think of it now, but she wasn't an obvious candidate for it in the 90s - but the strong identification she's still got as M, a decade after being killed off, shows just how much Judi made that role her own. She's about reached 'national treasure' status because of it.
    Have to say, I've always thought that Fiennes was ideal casting, though. I thought he was done a disservice in NTTD - he'd already refused to play M as a traitor in SP and then they made him responsible for a dubious programme that ran counter to everything that M had said he stood for in the previous film. That disconnect jarred a bit, tbh.
  • edited November 2022 Posts: 4,162
    Venutius wrote: »
    Before she played M, Judi Dench was known to British viewers mainly for long-running, lightweight, middle class sitcoms. She wasn't an obvious candidate for the it in the 90s, but the strong identification she's still got as M, a decade after being killed off, shows just how much she made that role her own. She's about reached 'national treasure' status because of it. Have to say, I've always thought that Fiennes was ideal casting, though.

    Yes, her playing M was a significant reason for her being viewed the way she is today. Fiennes, on the other hand, was an established British character actor long before he appeared in SF, but again one who was known for playing Voldemort, Goeth in Schindler's List, Dolarhyde in Red Dragon etc.

    After seeing SF for the first time, I was actually excited for Fiennes as M going forward. While not technically speaking the 'real' M, I thought Mallory as a replacement character would be someone who could grow into the role, going from a by-the-books bureaucrat to the leader MI6 needs. It was refreshing to see Fiennes play the 'good guy' too, and the film, intentionally or not, seemed to subvert audience expectations quite well in the sense that Mallory is initially depicted as antagonistic to Bond to some extent.

    But they never truly capitalised on this arc. Instead they played up Bond's lack of respect for authority, and very much leaned into the idea of Mallory willing to do questionable things. Fiennes never quite had that same sense of warmth or even authority either which Dench and Bernard Lee processed in their portrayals of M. Even Brown had both these qualities more than Fiennes. Without this, I don't think the character works onscreen.
  • 007HallY wrote: »

    tomas-lemarquis-attends-a-global-fan-screening-of-xmen-apocalypse-at-picture-id529828358?s=612x612

    Should have played the inquisitor in Kenobi.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Yes, I thought they set up Fiennes really well in SF by initially presenting him as a by-the-book committee man unsympathetic to the methods of field agents, but then showing him to be more than happy to go with Bond, Q and Tanner's off-the-books plan. That fitted his past as ex-SAS, where he'd've been used to everyone pitching in with ideas and trusting his men to do the job, even if it wasn't strictly in the manual. It worked. Rather than have Fiennes's M turn morally ambiguous, I'd've preferred him to have been seen to be the shield between the system and the 00s - having to navigate the politics and the bureaucracy, while putting himself between that and his team in order to ensure that the field agents could operate how they saw fit. Ex-SBS like CraigBond would surely respect a man who did that more than he would a career bureaucrat.
  • Posts: 15,123
    007HallY wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't know, I haven't seen any general dislike towards Fiennes as M. And while he may be associated with villainous roles due to him playing Voldemort, but he played a wide variety of roles throughout his career, in a variety of genres.

    It's not a dislike per say, but I don't think there's any particular love for his M, and he just isn't associated with the role quite as fully as Dench was post Brosnan. Like I said, short of this there's no reason for an actor to return to such a role if the series is being rebooted. If anyone from the Craig era was to return based on such criteria it'd be Wishaw as Q. I don't think this will happen going from what Wishaw has said though.

    It's also not the fact that he's played a variety of roles (which he has), but just about how he's viewed by the average moviegoer compared to Dench. On average, he's known more for playing villains than trutstworthy, authoritative figures, and I suspect this impacted how his M was written. I honestly don't think the writers would have had Dench's M be connected to the Heracles plot in quite the same way Mallory was in NTTD for example.

    I think Fiennes is known as a villain the way Robbie Coltrane was known as Hagrid. So getting another role in another franchise is a pretty moot point,,especially since he's been a successful actor in his own right before and after Voldemort.

    In any case, it's hard to know what kind of reboot they'll go for, harder or softer than CR, as there's only ever been one proper reboot in the franchise so far.
  • edited November 2022 Posts: 4,162
    Ludovico wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't know, I haven't seen any general dislike towards Fiennes as M. And while he may be associated with villainous roles due to him playing Voldemort, but he played a wide variety of roles throughout his career, in a variety of genres.

    It's not a dislike per say, but I don't think there's any particular love for his M, and he just isn't associated with the role quite as fully as Dench was post Brosnan. Like I said, short of this there's no reason for an actor to return to such a role if the series is being rebooted. If anyone from the Craig era was to return based on such criteria it'd be Wishaw as Q. I don't think this will happen going from what Wishaw has said though.

    It's also not the fact that he's played a variety of roles (which he has), but just about how he's viewed by the average moviegoer compared to Dench. On average, he's known more for playing villains than trutstworthy, authoritative figures, and I suspect this impacted how his M was written. I honestly don't think the writers would have had Dench's M be connected to the Heracles plot in quite the same way Mallory was in NTTD for example.

    I think Fiennes is known as a villain the way Robbie Coltrane was known as Hagrid. So getting another role in another franchise is a pretty moot point,,especially since he's been a successful actor in his own right before and after Voldemort.

    In any case, it's hard to know what kind of reboot they'll go for, harder or softer than CR, as there's only ever been one proper reboot in the franchise so far.

    I wouldn't necessarily use Coltrane as an analogy as that's a single part he performed later in his career and was simply well known for. Fiennes has a range of roles he's performed, and a number of his most well known ones are villains, to the point it's a notable aspect of his filmography and something he's known for doing well over a range of movies (again, Schindler's List, Harry Potter, In Bruges, Red Dragon, and even his voice acting in Prince of Egypt and Curse of the Warerabbit etc). Like I said, it's an aspect of him as an actor that I suspect played a huge part in the decisions to a) have his character be implicated with the Heracles plot in NTTD, b) initially have him as the villain in early SP drafts (supposedly) and c) initially depict him as antagonistic towards Bond in SF. Ironic, given I know he wanted to get away from playing villains as early as 2016.

    Anyway, I just don't see any reason to keep him. If he wasn't asked back I don't think too many fans or general viewers would care either way (certainly less would than if Dench hadn't been asked back for CR anyway). There are other, more interesting picks to go with for a future M. I suspect the next film will be a harder reboot just because we've never had a situation where Bond has been killed off before, and I suspect they'll really want to differentiate the next actor's tenure from Craig's, but obviously I can't say for certain.
  • Posts: 15,123
    See, I suspect they'll remain somewhat closer to Craig's tenure in terms of tone, because it's been very successful, both for the Bond franchise and others. I sure hope they don't fall into self-parody.
  • Posts: 4,162
    Ludovico wrote: »
    See, I suspect they'll remain somewhat closer to Craig's tenure in terms of tone, because it's been very successful, both for the Bond franchise and others. I sure hope they don't fall into self-parody.

    The Craig era had a lot of variation in tone to be fair, as did the Brosnan films. Even NTTD alone had pretty dramatic tonal jumps in the Cuba sequence alone.

    It's difficult to tell exactly what we'll get in this case. I think they'll riff off of the ideas of the Craig era (a lot of which in themselves were adapted from ideas during the Brosnan era) but try to do something new and present then in a new 'Bond universe' with new casts etc. Which is what I mean by a harder reboot.
  • Posts: 1,993
    A great villain is about tone. Is s/he interesting, charming, and threatening? Qualities Safin, Blofeld, and Greene in the DC era did not pull off. Over the years too many restrained villains that were restrained to the point of being boring. Best villains: DN, Red Grant, GF, Largo, the outrageously cast Telly Savalas, Robert Davi, Alex T, Le Chiffre, and Skyfall.
  • Posts: 1,630
    CrabKey wrote: »
    A great villain is about tone. Is s/he interesting, charming, and threatening? Qualities Safin, Blofeld, and Greene in the DC era did not pull off. Over the years too many restrained villains that were restrained to the point of being boring. Best villains: DN, Red Grant, GF, Largo, the outrageously cast Telly Savalas, Robert Davi, Alex T, Le Chiffre, and Skyfall.

    I like your list, but I note that Davi's villain Franz Sanchez was underserved by a tv-movie-of-the-week-rogue-cop-vs-drug-lord script, Sean Bean's Alec Trevelyan in GE was more blunt and not charming, not that he was meant to be, and for Skyfall, I suppose you refer to Javier Bardem's Silva and about whom I certainly agree. Too bad that LTK did not receive the more successful script-writing which benefitted SF. I concur on Trevelyan and Silva as well-chosen villains, but simply cannot find LTK as worthy. It was at least as disappointing as some of the RM films, though for very different reasons. The jealous schoolgirl sub-plot certainly did not help the film, either.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @Since62 ... I've always surprisingly and unconsciously enjoyed the rivalry between Pam and Lupe (usually this kind of B or C plot wouldn't gather much interest from me).

    On my last viewing of LTK, I focused on why this subplot not only didn't bother me, but I actually liked it-- and I believe I discovered why:

    It was a way of getting some inoffensive and light humour into a grim film, without relying on their leading man to deliver this to us (as Timothy Dalton often seemed uncomfortable in scenes with overt humour). It's also why I think Q had a larger role (to play the funny against Dalton's (mainly) straight man).

    And as far as Sanchez is concerned, I love watching he and Dalton on screen together (but I also note the low-budget sets).
  • Jamie Lee Curtis

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  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,803
    She's a great lady and I would not cross her.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Lars Mikkelsen

    Face-to-Face-s3-Lars-Mikkelsen-Photo-Henrik-Ohsten-Viaplay-1.jpg
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
    Andrew Garfield as Alec Trevelyan.
  • Posts: 15,123
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Andrew Garfield as Alec Trevelyan.

    No way. Garfield looks way too youthful. Besides, I don't see the point of reusing Trevelyan, Bean played him perfectly.
  • Posts: 1,630
    peter wrote: »
    @Since62 ... I've always surprisingly and unconsciously enjoyed the rivalry between Pam and Lupe (usually this kind of B or C plot wouldn't gather much interest from me).

    On my last viewing of LTK, I focused on why this subplot not only didn't bother me, but I actually liked it-- and I believe I discovered why:

    It was a way of getting some inoffensive and light humour into a grim film, without relying on their leading man to deliver this to us (as Timothy Dalton often seemed uncomfortable in scenes with overt humour). It's also why I think Q had a larger role (to play the funny against Dalton's (mainly) straight man).

    And as far as Sanchez is concerned, I love watching he and Dalton on screen together (but I also note the low-budget sets).

    For Bond 27 bring back Dalton, and give him a proper script and adventure ! Of course, he'd be playing a Mature, as they say, Bond. At the end, he dies....then, in the next film, bring back George Lazenby. At the end, he dies. Then, in the film thereafter, bring back Pierce Brosnan. By then he'll be more mature, too. At the end, yup, he dies. By then perhaps a younger actor who could generate even half the oomph of these three would be ready. At the end of his first film, he'd...oh, no. By then start a new trend of Bond surviving.
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