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Totally agree. When I heard Waltz was coming back, my immediate thought was, they want to make him more Blofeld than he was in SP. Instead of the director creating lots of memorable scenes and dialogue with him...to make up for his SP mishap, he just directed Waltz's Blofeld without punch....again! Blofeld should indeed have been back and heading the Garden of Death. Also, I have a strong feeling that if a popular villain like Blofeld shot and poisoned Bond, it would have been much more easier for fans to take, than a strange villain like Safin.
I keep thinking of when they used Bryan Cranston to market that Godzilla film when he was fresh of Breaking Bad, just to kill him off almost immediately. He had top billing lol
Welcome; I also put Spectre above Skyfall lately.
2. Casino Royale
3. SPECTRE
4. Quantum of Solace
5. No Time To Die
The last two are just two frustrating to be any higher. They have higher highs than SPECTRE, but also much more annoying lows.
1. Casino Royale
2. Skyfall
3. Quantum of Solace
4. No Time to Die
5. Spectre
I'm feeling like things are pretty concrete now for me. There've been zero doubts about #1, #2, and #5, and though #3 and #4 are the only ones with a significantly small gap in my enjoyment, I think I've come to the conclusion more or less I'd take QOS over NTTD if I could only have one. While I feel NTTD has the upper hand in several of the individual categories (main villain, title song, locations, and cinematography, for instance), QOS remains the more rewatchable and "closer to the heart" kind of Bond movie for me. I know I'm breaking the thread title rule a little. At any rate, my latest Bondathon I think has secured my opinions of Craig's era pretty well for a long while. CR and SF are elite, QOS and NTTD are very good, and SP is a distant last.
(NTTD)
1. Casino Royale
2. Skyfall
3. Quantum of Solace
4. No Time to Die
5. Spectre
2. SKYFALL
3. QoS
4. NTTD
5. SP
2. NTTD
3. SP
4. SF
5. QOS
This was the ranking I settled on pretty early after I saw NTTD a second time. Good picks. Though for me SP isn’t, rather a mid tier entry, and SF/QOS are quite close… so needless to say the Craig era has been very good for me.
2. Casino Royale
3. No Time To Die
4. Quantum of Solace
5. Spectre
The Cranston in Godzilla example is actually one that p*ssed off a lot of viewers though. I can see why - they had a potentially compelling character who had an emotional connection to the main character, played by a renowned and recognisable actor no less. There was so much they could have done that would have have benefitted the story. Even him dying at the end of the film would have been preferable.
For a character like Safin who only appears for a small portion of the film (which makes sense narratively) but has such a compelling motive, he absolutely needed to be the villain during that climax. I really don't understand why some fans want Blofeld to have killed Safin off. Waltz's Blofeld is a weaker character, and I suspect most audiences would have seen his goals and motives as less interesting than Safin's. If he had killed Safin and have taken his place I suspect most of us on these forums would be complaining about how much of a wasted opportunity Safin was and how rubbish Waltz's Blofeld is. Such a script decision possibly would have ruined the entire movie.
2. Skyfall
3. No Time to Die
4. Spectre
5.Quantum of Solace
Can't remember whether I've posted my list before but I've swapped Spectre and QoS. I do like all these movies in their own ways but having just rewatched QoS it fails so much on every single level that I can't justify putting it anywhere but bottom.
Yeah, but I really thought the reason for Waltz's return was to make his Blofeld more memorable. Same way they gave Seydoux's Madeleine a bigger role. I was absolutely shocked they killed him off like that. I don't even know which of the films Waltz's Blofeld performed better, because he didn't really standout in both films. Maybe he was slightly better in SP, mainly because of the way Mendes directed the SP meeting...I don't know.
Waltz's problem was that he really leaned into what he'd done as Hans Landa in Inglorious Basterds. That's to say he did his usual 'I come across as affable but I'm actually really evil' schtick. It works in Inglorious because Tarrintino specifically wrote the character that way. Blofeld in SP and NTTD is a bit of a blank slate by comparison. He's not overly charming, but there's not necessarily an indication he's off-putting either. Beyond not liking Bond for stealing his father's affection there's not much indication why he even formed SPECTRE in the first place. Hell, when the script does call for him to finally face Bond with his scarred face or revelations that he's tricked Bond into breaking ties with Madeline, Waltz still plays it in that understated, Landa-esque way. Why not go all the way, act a bit more unhinged, even manic, during these moments? At least then the audience could buy that Blofeld is actually in fact a bit mad.
Perhaps with a stronger script and director willing to play to Waltz's talents rather than getting him to do a rendition of his previous noteworthy performance we could have gotten a good Blofeld. As it stands, I think Safin is actually the stronger character despite his flaws.
The Cranston decision pissed people off because it was the only thing that movie had going for it. And the whole point of having Blofeld usurp the main villain role would have been to give Blofeld a chance to shine and be a memorable villain. I can see why you’d think Waltz’ Blofeld was the weaker of the two characters, but it’s because of the scripts and him not really having been able to do much. I think it’s lazy to say he just leaned into what he did with Landa, because they’re similar roles. Landa was much more outgoing and outlandish, Blofeld has his humour but he’s much more reserved and under your skin.
I think I'll make a slight revision:
1. No Time To Die
2. Casino Royale
3. Skyfall
4. Quantum of Solace
5. Spectre
The first three are fairly interchangeable, but my appreciation of Quantum of Solace has grown immensely the last few times I've watched it.
It pissed people off because it felt unsatisfying and as if the film had billed Cranston to sell the film. Like I said, it was a wasted opportunity to do something interesting and narratively compelling with that character. As it was we didn't really get to know his character and he was killed off before anything interesting about him could be explored. You can certainly kill off characters, even those who are implied to be main characters (obviously Psycho did this, as well as what happened with Rachel in TDK), but the audience needs to get to know said characters first, feel invested in them, and their previous actions need to have some sort of lasting impact on the rest of the film. To kill off Safin - a character who has such a massive but enigmatic influence over what happens - during the latter part of the film to give us a replacement antagonist doesn't really work. Firstly, the film purposely builds up to his reveal. This is why it takes so long for him to appear - he's this shadow, this strong presence over the film's plot waiting to appear, and a vital reason why the viewer is invested to learn more. If anything the film is designed for Safin to be that 'surprise' antagonist with the fact that he hijacks SPECTRE'S nanobot theft and begins to target them. It's counterintuitive to simply kill him off later, almost an anticlimax of sorts. Like I said, the film is designed to keep us asking who he is, what does he want etc. It needs to be payed off properly.
Secondly, the audience are already so invested in his actions anyway - him targeting SPECTRE, what he'll ultimately do with the nanobots once he's done this etc. Instead of his hypothetical death creating intrigue and organically leading to questions to be answered later in the film, it'd just feel like the film abandoned the character to replace him with Waltz, whose presence in the film isn't anywhere near as strong or compelling. Simply put it'd be jarring and unsatisfying. The vast majority of times such a writing decision wouldn't work.
I get what you're saying, and I actually think it was possible to make Blofeld a more memorable villain in the film we got. Again, I'd have liked to see Waltz's Blofeld slowly become more manic, even a bit unhinged. I think you're right about the script differences (I actually pointed out that the characters were written differently), but Waltz essentially played the characters in a similar way from what I can see, and this is part of the problem. I always cite Javier Bardem's performance in SF as being so different to his one as Anton Chigurgh in No Country for instance; he's a cold, almost mechanical killer in the latter, while in the former he's a charming, but ultimately sinister trickster with a vendetta. I wish the producers had had the courage to do something similar with Waltz and really play a different type of villain.
Love it....something in our water @Ryan !!!
2. SP
3. NTTD
4. CR
5. SF
Worst to best, or best to worst?
Best to Worst:
1. QoS
2. CR
3. NTTD
4. SF
5. SP
QOS
SF
NTTD
SP
1. CR
2. QoS
3. SP
4. NTTD
5. SF
Its getting to the stage that CR and QOS are almost equally excellent imo, though CR still shades it at the moment
Ha! QoS is my favourite Bond movie, it has been for some time now, it just gets better and better after each viewing, but I do enjoy all of the DC Bond movies, he is my 2nd favourite Bond after Sir Roger.
QOS
SF (near tie ^)
NTTD
SP
Ranking is not likely to change.
That's what I like to hear. It's #3 overall for me.
SF
QOS
SP
NTTD (which I haven’t seen more than once. Last time I felt this way for a Bond film was in 2002 with DAD. In fact, DAF, DAD, NTTD and MR, hardly get any visitations from me these days)
As stated in another thread, always good to see you around, @Univex!
What would you say are the main issues that have you avoiding NTTD?
2. CR
3. NTTD
4. SP
5. QOS
Although Spectre and Quantum of Solace are basically on the same level of appreciation, I probably enjoy Spectre more for its first half, despite the fact that Quantum have more interesting issues in my opinion.