Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Looking now with a modern eye, I can point out some flaws that went wrong in the Brosnan Era (and maybe his portrayal of Bond), but it's necessary at the time.

    I saw plenty I didn’t like in his performance at the time.

    But in the same breath, it’s very apparent he was the right man for the job— and that’s why I appreciate him (although he sits in dead last on my list of favourite Bonds).

    But are we looking back in this thread? Or looking forward, 😂
  • Posts: 678
    I'm a Brosnan fan but I can't get myself to praise TND too much. The film has far too much of a sterile look to it -- which I guess was a stylistic choice but after the glamour of the locations in GoldenEye, the set design just didn't inspire me. Bond being chased through a printing press? Meh.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Benny wrote: »
    I have to say TND is something of a guilty pleasure for me.
    It's a fun entry in the series.

    Brosnan encapsulates the "men want to be him, women want to be with him" dimension of Bond, especially at his smoothest in GE and TND.

    Brosnan was too much of a mannequin. A pretty boy pretending to be dangerous.

    Connery was the perfect balance. Handsome but a tough looking customer you wouldn’t want to cross.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    Brosnan's Bond was perfect for the 90s, when films weren't complex, dark or multi-layered like they're today, which isn't a bad thing of course. So it's easy to condemn him and his Bond films when compared to today's films. But I also won't forget that movies like Bad Boys, Broken Arrow, The Rock, Con Air, Gone in 60 seconds, Face-Off, etc. can't stand toe-to-toe with today's films as well, but I also love them like I do the Brosnan era.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    So it's easy to condemn him and his Bond films when compared to today's films.

    It’s also easy to condemn his films when compared to the previous decades.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    I would take another 10 CGI tsunami sequences if it meant brothergate never happened and we didn't have a Bond film where he finds out he is a father only to be incinerated 6 minutes later.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    So it's easy to condemn him and his Bond films when compared to today's films.

    It’s also easy to condemn his films when compared to the previous decades.

    Yeah, that's the point. He was a 90s Bond. Everything was over-the-top in the 90s, even music.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    So it's easy to condemn him and his Bond films when compared to today's films.

    It’s also easy to condemn his films when compared to the previous decades.

    Yeah, that's the point. He was a 90s Bond. Everything was over-the-top in the 90s, even music.

    I WISH it was as good as FACE/OFF. Getting John Woo for TND would have added the needed flair that was lacking in Spottiswoode’s direction.
  • Posts: 348
    So it's easy to condemn him and his Bond films when compared to today's films.

    It’s also easy to condemn his films when compared to the previous decades.

    Yeah, that's the point. He was a 90s Bond. Everything was over-the-top in the 90s, even music.

    I WISH it was as good as FACE/OFF. Getting John Woo for TND would have added the needed flair that was lacking in Spottiswoode’s direction.

    I love a good John Woo movie, but M:I 2 might be an example of how he would do it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I never judged Brosnan films against contemporary films.

    I judged him in the present-time where I watched him. And I knew then, that this just wasn’t the era for me. I still went to each, but most of the time I was bored silly.

    And @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ , I wish we were still making some of those titles you mentioned. Those popcorn flicks put to shame the CGI messes we have today.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited July 2023 Posts: 2,044
    So it's easy to condemn him and his Bond films when compared to today's films.

    It’s also easy to condemn his films when compared to the previous decades.

    Yeah, that's the point. He was a 90s Bond. Everything was over-the-top in the 90s, even music.

    I WISH it was as good as FACE/OFF. Getting John Woo for TND would have added the needed flair that was lacking in Spottiswoode’s direction.

    Yeah, Face-Off is a favourite of mine. But do you really want to see James Bond in endless slow motion action scenes? Maybe that's why Woo turned down GoldenEye, because he knew that style wouldn't suit Bond.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    peter wrote: »
    I never judged Brosnan films against contemporary films.

    I judged him in the present-time where I watched him. And I knew then, that this just wasn’t the era for me. I still went to each, but most of the time I was bored silly.

    And @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ , I wish we were still making some of those titles you mentioned. Those popcorn flicks put to shame the CGI messes we have today.

    Yeah, those 90s flicks were cool @peter Great practical stunts!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    So it's easy to condemn him and his Bond films when compared to today's films.

    It’s also easy to condemn his films when compared to the previous decades.

    Yeah, that's the point. He was a 90s Bond. Everything was over-the-top in the 90s, even music.

    I WISH it was as good as FACE/OFF. Getting John Woo for TND would have added the needed flair that was lacking in Spottiswoode’s direction.

    Yeah, Face-Off is a favourite of mine. But do you really want to see James Bond in endless slow motion action scenes? Maybe that's why Woo turned down GoldenEye, because he knew that style wouldn't suit Bond.

    No, Bond should be Bond. No matter what the stories take from other franchises. In the end, James Bond is his own style. And by and large, most of the films maintain that feel.

    It was in the Brozz Era where I felt the Americanization of the brand creeping in. And some of that was due to Brosnan’s thin portrayal with his mid-Atlantic accent…
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    M_Blaise wrote: »
    So it's easy to condemn him and his Bond films when compared to today's films.

    It’s also easy to condemn his films when compared to the previous decades.

    Yeah, that's the point. He was a 90s Bond. Everything was over-the-top in the 90s, even music.

    I WISH it was as good as FACE/OFF. Getting John Woo for TND would have added the needed flair that was lacking in Spottiswoode’s direction.

    I love a good John Woo movie, but M:I 2 might be an example of how he would do it.

    M:I-2 was definitely more entertaining than TND/TWINE/DAD. If Brosnan’s films were gonna level up to what 90s action films were, I rather have John Woo directing rather than Spottiswoode.
  • Posts: 678
    Now with that I definitely don't agree... even if TWINE has big misses it still is much more of a worthwhile watch than M:I 2.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    TWINE is like the Diet Coke of OHMSS. If the filmmakers really wanted to evoke that 1969 film, they should have gone all the way and have Bond alone at the end after killing Elektra, just as Bond was alone after Tracy died.

    M:I-2 is cheese, but it’s never dull like TWINE.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Yeah, those 90s flicks were cool @peter Great practical stunts!

    Agreed…. Watching the first three Indy films recently, and oh boy, Spielberg just knew how to set it up, and then, as the sequence played out, he’d elevate the struggle… So much fun to watch…. I know that’s the 80s, but the 90s continued some of the in-camera trickery and practical effects and stunts…

    The 80s and 90s (especially), were the two eras of the spec-sale boom, so the writers had to really work concept and story… They had to dazzle on the page and really know their craft (of course, that eventually grew rotten when concept-as-king took over and we started getting strong ideas, handcuffed with poor scripts, that turned into films that bombed… And that was the end of the spec-sale boom)…

    In fact, no matter what the @Mendes4Lyfe types say, Bond, with all his faults, is still more old school in character and stories and execution, and is therefore more unique and feels far more authentic than the likes of marvel/DC/FF etc etc…
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    "Keep glowy thing away from bad guy."

    That's about right.

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/06/12/how-the-marvel-cinematic-universe-swallowed-hollywood

    Bond does not need to copy Marvel.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    peter wrote: »
    Yeah, those 90s flicks were cool @peter Great practical stunts!

    Agreed…. Watching the first three Indy films recently, and oh boy, Spielberg just knew how to set it up, and then, as the sequence played out, he’d elevate the struggle… So much fun to watch…. I know that’s the 80s, but the 90s continued some of the in-camera trickery and practical effects and stunts…

    The 80s and 90s (especially), were the two eras of the spec-sale boom, so the writers had to really work concept and story… They had to dazzle on the page and really know their craft (of course, that eventually grew rotten when concept-as-king took over and we started getting strong ideas, handcuffed with poor scripts, that turned into films that bombed… And that was the end of the spec-sale boom)…

    In fact, no matter what the @Mendes4Lyfe types say, Bond, with all his faults, is still more old school in character and stories and execution, and is therefore more unique and feels far more authentic than the likes of marvel/DC/FF etc etc…

    Brilliantly explained!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    That’s nice of you, @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ ! Thank you!
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    peter wrote: »
    That’s nice of you, @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ ! Thank you!

    You're welcome, @peter :)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    Even the lesser bond films have a handful of iconic images and a few lines that stick with you, but when I think of the last two films, SPECTRE and Bond 25, and try to think which aspects sticks in my mind, I can't think of any. "you're a kite dancing in the hurricane, mister bond" will always be remembered, and perhaps hinxs metal thumbs are noteworthy, but what action sequences, lines, use of location, iconic sets, inventive gadgets etc really stand out to you? The truth is, there aren't any. Say what you want about Brosnans films but they do carry on that oldschool tradition of the motif which the film is centred around. The World Is Not Enough has oil, Tomorrow Never Dies has media/communications technology, DAD has ice with bonds head being dunked in the bucket of ice water at the start, diamonds, Miranda "Frost", ice palace etc.
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 12,837
    .
    So it's easy to condemn him and his Bond films when compared to today's films.

    It’s also easy to condemn his films when compared to the previous decades.

    Yeah, that's the point. He was a 90s Bond. Everything was over-the-top in the 90s, even music.

    Yeah I think every Bond has been more or less perfect for the time they were cast. Brosnan got a bad wrap for a good few years because people decided the 90s weren’t cool anymore, but he was the perfect Britpop Bond, and I’d argue had more to him than his detractors give him credit for. It’s nice to see him getting more praise on here these days. I think we’ll see something similar happen with Craig. He’s past the honeymoon phase now but give it a decade and people will be nostalgic for his run.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @Mendes4Lyfe what are you going on about?

    I’m not the biggest fan of Spectre, but:

    The PTS and the costumes and the location.

    The Spectre meeting is iconic in imagery.

    The assassination of Lucia’s would-be killers.

    The seduction of Lucia.

    The uniqueness of the aeroplane chase vs Hinx and his men.

    The train fight between Bond and Hinx.

    NTTD:

    An interesting PTS with Safin and young Madeleine.

    Matera graveyard (and the excellent sound editing).

    Matera’s car chase sequence.

    Jamaica with Felix.

    Jamaica with the new 007 (I know Mendes, a woman!).

    Cuba sequence.

    The one-shot attack on Safin’s compound.

    And no matter how controversial, the finale is remarkable and unforgettable, whether one liked it or not.

    I wrote this in ten seconds with no thought.

    Once again, Mendes, you act like someone who is butt-hurt because BB and MGW didn’t give you the films you wanted. You act as if this is a personal affront to you and your tastes, that this was deliberate in some ways. Get over it, pal. You hate two films out of 25. Can any other series have that kind of winning percentage?

    Honestly, get over yourself.



  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    .
    So it's easy to condemn him and his Bond films when compared to today's films.

    It’s also easy to condemn his films when compared to the previous decades.

    Yeah, that's the point. He was a 90s Bond. Everything was over-the-top in the 90s, even music.

    Yeah I think every Bond has been more or less perfect for the time they were cast. Brosnan got a bad wrap for a good few years because people decided the 90s weren’t cool anymore, but he was the perfect Britpop Bond, and I’d argue had more to him than his detractors give him credit for. It’s nice to see him getting more praise on here these days. I think we’ll see something similar happen with Craig. He’s past the honeymoon phase now but give it a decade and people will be nostalgic for his run.

    My sentiments exactly.
  • I doubt we will hear anything re Bond26 for another year of two



  • Posts: 12,473
    Not saying it’s my #1 choice, but it’s starting to feel like the stars are aligning for Nolan based on timing.
  • .
    So it's easy to condemn him and his Bond films when compared to today's films.

    It’s also easy to condemn his films when compared to the previous decades.

    Yeah, that's the point. He was a 90s Bond. Everything was over-the-top in the 90s, even music.

    Yeah I think every Bond has been more or less perfect for the time they were cast. Brosnan got a bad wrap for a good few years because people decided the 90s weren’t cool anymore, but he was the perfect Britpop Bond, and I’d argue had more to him than his detractors give him credit for. It’s nice to see him getting more praise on here these days. I think we’ll see something similar happen with Craig. He’s past the honeymoon phase now but give it a decade and people will be nostalgic for his run.

    I agree with you there. It seemed people threw Brosnan and his films under a bus these last couple of years, but it is starting to look like Brosnan is undergoing a sort of renaissance.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited July 2023 Posts: 8,399
    @thelivingroyale it's true what you say about reappraisal an era once the book is closed.


    I'm finding a lot more to enjoy in the early Craig films post-bond 25 release. For me, I now view his era in two halves, 2006 - 2012 and 2015 - 2021. In 2006 - 2012 it seemed like they had a clear vision for what each film was. I don't like Bond on revenge missions (including LTK) but you can understand quantum once you see that was the central idea, and explains the shakey cam, the performances, the frantic edits etc. Again, I don't like it necessarily, but I can understand where the decisions are coming from, and I can see the vision of what they were creating. I can also see how Skyfall was made from the ground up as an anniversary film, and the constant references to "old ways are the best" is a self referenial comment on the franchises long history. It's never going to be my cup of tea, or what I want from Bond personally, but I get it. The problem is from 2015 onwards the vision doesn't appear to be there anymore, and the movies become just a collection of elements with nothing holding them together. What, for instance, is the vision of SP? Bond and blofeld are brothers, but also M has sent him on a revenge mission to uncover SPECTRE from beyond the grave, also bond finds the love of his life, oh and something to do with surveillance. There's just no "there" there. No story. Nothing to latch onto. The end result of the story is that bond has to save the girl and shoot down a helicopter with his walther, so why was any of the personal angles, the relationship between bond and blofeld necessary to begin with? Bond could have just dealt with SP and Blofeld like a normal mission and they could be eachothers archnemsis, and that would be enough. I really don't know what the film was leading to in a grander meaning sense. Blofeld is built up as the "author of all your pain" and then he is imprisoned at the end, only to die in the next film. It feels like the bond blofeld relationship is supposed to be this films vision, but he ends up dealing with him how he would any villain, by foiling their plan, so I truly don't understand what the point was.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Not saying it’s my #1 choice, but it’s starting to feel like the stars are aligning for Nolan based on timing.

    I can feel it too. Things are just perfectly lined up right now, and I think Nolan will want to do something a bit less serious after a film like Oppenhiemer.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,413
    TWINE is like the Diet Coke of OHMSS. If the filmmakers really wanted to evoke that 1969 film, they should have gone all the way and have Bond alone at the end after killing Elektra, just as Bond was alone after Tracy died.

    M:I-2 is cheese, but it’s never dull like TWINE.

    Yeah, can't disagree. TWINE is okay, but compared to almost any other Bond film; design-wise, dialogue, acting... it's a raw deal. Look at that opening scene in a boring, small, cramped office... rubbish lines, obvious acting... it's weak old sauce. At least MI2 has some style about it, dated as it may be now.
    I'd like to see to B26 go for it in terms of style: don't worry about looking dated in 15 years' time, you're not making it for then.
    peter wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe what are you going on about?

    I’m not the biggest fan of Spectre, but:

    The PTS and the costumes and the location.

    The Spectre meeting is iconic in imagery.

    The assassination of Lucia’s would-be killers.

    The seduction of Lucia.

    The uniqueness of the aeroplane chase vs Hinx and his men.

    The train fight between Bond and Hinx.

    NTTD:

    An interesting PTS with Safin and young Madeleine.

    Matera graveyard (and the excellent sound editing).

    Matera’s car chase sequence.

    Jamaica with Felix.

    Jamaica with the new 007 (I know Mendes, a woman!).

    Cuba sequence.

    The one-shot attack on Safin’s compound.

    And no matter how controversial, the finale is remarkable and unforgettable, whether one liked it or not.

    I wrote this in ten seconds with no thought.

    Once again, Mendes, you act like someone who is butt-hurt because BB and MGW didn’t give you the films you wanted. You act as if this is a personal affront to you and your tastes, that this was deliberate in some ways. Get over it, pal. You hate two films out of 25. Can any other series have that kind of winning percentage?

    Honestly, get over yourself.



    Absolutely right. It's not like you have to get very far into the first film Mendes mentions, Spectre, and you're hit with one of the most impressive sequences in the Bond films. So much so that the city which hosted it is now recreating it annually!
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