Mission: Impossible - films and tv series

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that Renner wasn't in Fallout because of a scheduling conflict. I don't recall talk of Brandt being killed off- and even if it was considered, that doesn't mean it would have happened, because that's how these movies are made. Making up stories about egos is silly.

    That’s why I only call it a theory. And Cruise’s ego isn’t exactly a secret. I’m not bringing up to knock the guy, just that I would understand why he would have Renner’s character written off and never brought back three films in a row (assuming Renner doesn’t make a surprise appearance in MI8).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,413
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that Renner wasn't in Fallout because of a scheduling conflict. I don't recall talk of Brandt being killed off- and even if it was considered, that doesn't mean it would have happened, because that's how these movies are made. Making up stories about egos is silly.

    That’s why I only call it a theory. And Cruise’s ego isn’t exactly a secret. I’m not bringing up to knock the guy, just that I would understand why he would have Renner’s character written off and never brought back three films in a row (assuming Renner doesn’t make a surprise appearance in MI8).

    Except that you have a series of films which has notably moved from him being the lone star to a repeating ensemble team format. As I say, his ego wasn't going to be in trouble from sharing a screen with Renner if he's happy to share and give big moments to the rest of them. And he had him there for two whole films! Does it take three movies/seven years for this fragile ego to kick in?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that Renner wasn't in Fallout because of a scheduling conflict. I don't recall talk of Brandt being killed off- and even if it was considered, that doesn't mean it would have happened, because that's how these movies are made. Making up stories about egos is silly.

    That’s why I only call it a theory. And Cruise’s ego isn’t exactly a secret. I’m not bringing up to knock the guy, just that I would understand why he would have Renner’s character written off and never brought back three films in a row (assuming Renner doesn’t make a surprise appearance in MI8).

    Except that you have a series of films which has notably moved from him being the lone star to a repeating ensemble team format.

    I don’t agree with this. These movies never had Cruise as the lone star, but they never were ensembles either. Hunt always had a team he worked with in these films, but he was always front and center when it came to these teams. That’s fine, because that’s the dynamic Cruise has set from the very first film. Collect a team of misfits who all have speciality that will come to aid him (or betray him if they’re double agents). The only time he’s ever really solo is when his whole team gets killed in the first, but shortly after he sets up a new team.
    As I say, his ego wasn't going to be in trouble from sharing a screen with Renner if he's happy to share and give big moments to the rest of them. And he had him there for two whole films! Does it take three movies/seven years for this fragile ego to kick in?

    I just find it peculiar that Renner is around for two films but the moment he turns down a death cameo for FALLOUT they never ask for him again. If they manage to have Renner pop up in a future film, I’ll happy toss my theory in the bin.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    mtm wrote: »
    Does it take three movies/seven years for this fragile ego to kick in?
    Maybe that’s why Rebecca Ferguson is now out..

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,413
    As I say, his ego wasn't going to be in trouble from sharing a screen with Renner if he's happy to share and give big moments to the rest of them. And he had him there for two whole films! Does it take three movies/seven years for this fragile ego to kick in?

    I just find it peculiar that Renner is around for two films but the moment he turns down a death cameo for FALLOUT they never ask for him again. If they manage to have Renner pop up in a future film, I’ll happy toss my theory in the bin.

    I don't quite follow this theory: Renner not doing the death cameo set off Cruise's ego? Why would his ego be damaged by another character not dying? A character who wasn't going to be in the film anyway.

    I think if you read between the lines of that McQ interview, it seems more like he didn't enjoy McQ's freestyle way of making these films and hasn't been up for more of it, as well as having schedule conflicts for Fallout. Don't forget they've been shooting these two films since 2019, and they haven't finished yet.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    I realize that this is subjective; while I like Renner quite a bit, be is a solid actor , I don’t think he has an intangible quality needed to carry a franchise.

    Even if Cruise’s success is , partially, ego driven, it may be part of his charisma; bravado is equally admired and met with disdain. Renner is a bit middle ground.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    Off topic, but I've always thought Christian Bale looks a bit like Tom Cruise and Cruise looks like Cristiano Ronaldo.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited July 2023 Posts: 554
    Just got back from it, it was solid, but all of 3-6 top it for me. While it had a three act structure certainly, I still ended up with the feeling I'd seen only half a film. Of course that's somewhat expected for a Part One, but I don't know.
    The train escape, while enjoyable, didn't feel like a proper climax to me.
    Gabriel was a pretty weak villain. The new backstory was just outright unnecessary, working off what we have so far, seeing as Ilsa's death gives Ethan a good reason to hate him anyways.
    Also felt like Ilsa's death was botched. The fight itself was alright, but itt's clear as day what's gonna happen the second Gabriel puts it as a choice between her and newcomer Hayley Attwell. I wish she was at least in more of the first half, rather than disappearing. I was hoping hoping a more of a proper relationship with Ethan after Fallout's resolution, so the fact we both didn't get that and she was so easily replaced by Grace in every way, right down to being an implied loge interest disappointed me a good bit.


    Speaking of Renner, I do think it's a shame he fell off the stage after Rogue Nation, because I think he slotted into the Ethan/Luther/Benji/sometimes Ilsa team really well.
  • Posts: 1,993
    I very much enjoyed DR, whereas others have been quite vocal about its perceived shortcomings. We like what we like. For me Dial of Destiny did not work, but that doesn't make it a bad film.

    I tip my hat to the director and Tom Cruise for their introduction. A reminder that movies are made for and best on the big screen.

  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited July 2023 Posts: 2,044
    Rebecca Ferguson could easily be Bond 7's M. She's that good.
  • Posts: 1,993
    Rebecca Ferguson could easily be Bond 7's M. She's that good.

    Any number of actresses could play M. Do they model their M after JD, or do they take her in a new direction? I prefer to see a new dynamic. The scolding/reprimanding M who obviously likes Bond but rarely shows it is wearing thin.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Rebecca Ferguson could easily be Bond 7's M. She's that good.

    Any number of actresses could play M. Do they model their M after JD, or do they take her in a new direction? I prefer to see a new dynamic. The scolding/reprimanding M who obviously likes Bond but rarely shows it is wearing thin.

    Yeah. That would be a nice touch.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I'll be honest I'm glad Jeremy Renner hasn't been in the last two films. Nothing against him personally, but his character wasn’t necessary. He's literally there to tell the audience how impossible the mission is in both Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation.

    I do think Dead Reckoning 1 had too many characters, espicially when compared with Fallout that felt very streamlined.
    Why did nobody (including her brother Zola) pick up on the fact Alana had brown eyes during the meeting. I thought that would be a dead giveaway that it was Grace. I mean Vanessa Kirby has piercing blue eyes
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,413
    Yeah I was a bit puzzled by that too! I don't know why they did it if they weren't going to use it..?

    I don't know where I stand on the too-many-characters thing. I think there were probably too many returning characters (not sure we needed White Widow as well), but there's something a bit sad about Ethan's core M:I team just being him, Benji and Luther. They're all a bit old and slightly tired-looking; I think it needs four to be a team. In a way I feel like they should have just made Ilsa part of the team proper from the beginning of this film; it would have been nice to see her taking part in some of the proper heist stuff.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Yeah I get that completely
    One thing I do wish they did was show what happened in between Fallout and DR. I know this film has been delayed but it feels like we've missed something at the start of the film. It'd be like if NTTD picked up with Bond in Jamaica and cut out Matera entirely.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Yeah I get that completely
    One thing I do wish they did was show what happened in between Fallout and DR. I know this film has been delayed but it feels like we've missed something at the start of the film. It'd be like if NTTD picked up with Bond in Jamaica and cut out Matera entirely.
    Yeah, I was expecting to get at least a small reference to why Ethan was out of the game, but it never happened.
  • Posts: 1,493
    UK opening week box office is extremely good.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Just like NTTD, M:IDRp1 won't be a classic in the genre or within the series it belongs to, IMO. Time won't be gentle with it, I'm sure we're just riding the fumes of its exciting pace and our own hunger for quality films.

    Listen, we had to endure a handful of years between SP and NTTD, and a handful of years between Fallout and DR. This simply heightens expectations and desires and we construct our own film inside our busy hungry heads, which leads us to have unsurpassable expectations or a distorted augmented view from the get go.

    Point being, some films nowadays need to brew, to marinate over some time so we can get a better view with a clear head and not that empty of a stomach.

    That isn't to say they're not fun at the time, and I'm not mining anyone's delight. But I don't believe they'll stand and endure the test of time.

    I love NTTD's first bit, and I loathed the rest of it. I liked DR for the most part, despite it's narrative faults, contrived solutions, and bad decisions regarding the characters, but it was well executed. Heck, I can say the same about NTTD, it was brilliantly executed. They both were. But their solutions and decisions simply didn't do anything for me besides bothering me and leaving a sour taste in the mouth.

    So, what does the film industry need nowadays? Better technicians? Better stunt people? Better cinematographers? Better composers? NO! All of these are good. They need better writers, damn it! WRITERS! Not AI generated scripts. And writers can't be treated as servants to the studio culture. Writers must be appreciated as the most important artists. The base of it all. The foundations!

    And this is my main criticism of films nowadays. They are poorly written. And if they are brilliantly written, the beast in the industry will make sure the writing gets moulded to their design, to their agenda. Writers must regain the respect they deserve. And then, who knows? Maybe a well written Bond film, plus all of the technical achievements they have accomplished, will blow our minds again, in the best way.

    I'll be waiting for it. Same goes for Mr. Cruise. If he puts his bravado and interests along side better writing from the get go, who knows what will come of it?
  • Posts: 2,165
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I'll be honest I'm glad Jeremy Renner hasn't been in the last two films. Nothing against him personally, but his character wasn’t necessary. He's literally there to tell the audience how impossible the mission is in both Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation.

    I do think Dead Reckoning 1 had too many characters, espicially when compared with Fallout that felt very streamlined.
    Why did nobody (including her brother Zola) pick up on the fact Alana had brown eyes during the meeting. I thought that would be a dead giveaway that it was Grace. I mean Vanessa Kirby has piercing blue eyes

    I was expecting that too, especially after Kitteridge mentions he knew her when she was younger.

    My suspicion is that it was planned but got lost in re-writes.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,413
    Yes that makes most sense; they intended doing something with it but it got lost.
    I will certainly sign up to and listen to the Empire spoiler special with McQ when it's released- apparently they've done the first session and it was six hours long. The last two were properly fascinating.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I was expecting the Alana/Grace switch to be the equivalent of the gadgets going wrong to be honest, I think the close ups during the scene didn't help, because it drew my attention watching it, rather than the dialogue. I was waiting for someone to realise it.

    I feel like all I'm doing is nitpicking this film, but I did really enjoy it. I was driving home with my girlfriend after watching it, I said to her, it was still an exciting film, it just didn't live up to Fallout or the expectations I had for it, which is my own fault rather than the films if that makes sense
  • Posts: 3,276
    Univex wrote: »
    So, what does the film industry need nowadays? Better technicians? Better stunt people? Better cinematographers? Better composers? NO! All of these are good. They need better writers, damn it! WRITERS!
    The great writers are there, but the rinse-and-repeat "mini rooms" have mostly taken over. That is what part of the writers strike is about, btw. A movie - or a streaming series- that only follows one man's vision and red line, is rare these days. Most blockbusters have at least three writing credits.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Past a couple of nitpicks, I really, really loved this one and am still looking for a chance to go and see it again. I've been let down massively by quite a few highly anticipated films this year so I'm glad I found one that really satisfied me across the board. I knew it wasn't going to reach the perfection of Fallout but it got damn close.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited July 2023 Posts: 1,649
    Univex wrote: »
    Just like NTTD, M:IDRp1 won't be a classic in the genre or within the series it belongs to, IMO. Time won't be gentle with it, I'm sure we're just riding the fumes of its exciting pace and our own hunger for quality films.

    Listen, we had to endure a handful of years between SP and NTTD, and a handful of years between Fallout and DR. This simply heightens expectations and desires and we construct our own film inside our busy hungry heads, which leads us to have unsurpassable expectations or a distorted augmented view from the get go.

    Point being, some films nowadays need to brew, to marinate over some time so we can get a better view with a clear head and not that empty of a stomach.

    That isn't to say they're not fun at the time, and I'm not mining anyone's delight. But I don't believe they'll stand and endure the test of time.

    I love NTTD's first bit, and I loathed the rest of it. I liked DR for the most part, despite it's narrative faults, contrived solutions, and bad decisions regarding the characters, but it was well executed. Heck, I can say the same about NTTD, it was brilliantly executed. They both were. But their solutions and decisions simply didn't do anything for me besides bothering me and leaving a sour taste in the mouth.

    So, what does the film industry need nowadays? Better technicians? Better stunt people? Better cinematographers? Better composers? NO! All of these are good. They need better writers, damn it! WRITERS! Not AI generated scripts. And writers can't be treated as servants to the studio culture. Writers must be appreciated as the most important artists. The base of it all. The foundations!

    And this is my main criticism of films nowadays. They are poorly written. And if they are brilliantly written, the beast in the industry will make sure the writing gets moulded to their design, to their agenda. Writers must regain the respect they deserve. And then, who knows? Maybe a well written Bond film, plus all of the technical achievements they have accomplished, will blow our minds again, in the best way.

    I'll be waiting for it. Same goes for Mr. Cruise. If he puts his bravado and interests along side better writing from the get go, who knows what will come of it?

    I think you and I are largely on the same page wrt to NTTD and DR. Love bits of both, but the writing is just too distracting at parts. One would think and hope that any writer doing a two-parter from the get-go would know to set themselves up in Part 1 for the perfect Part 2. We've cut out some characters, given Ethan a new mission already, now we can hopefully literally cut to the chase in Part 2 and get something that feels tight and clever.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    Well. Seen it tonight. Loved it. Lots of fun but the macguffin and everything around it felt a bit lazy in the writing department.
    also was i the only one that thought the entity might get into benji's self driving bmw and crash it? Did i miss something? Seemed obvious to me.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    00Heaven wrote: »
    Well. Seen it tonight. Loved it. Lots of fun but the macguffin and everything around it felt a bit lazy in the writing department.
    also was i the only one that thought the entity might get into benji's self driving bmw and crash it? Did i miss something? Seemed obvious to me.
    That's briefly touched upon by Benji taking a second look at the steering wheel before putting his seatbelt on, just for some added protection in case it does get hacked.
  • Posts: 678
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Why did nobody (including her brother Zola) pick up on the fact Alana had brown eyes during the meeting. I thought that would be a dead giveaway that it was Grace. I mean Vanessa Kirby has piercing blue eyes
    Yeah, one thing I was definitely struggling with was believing that her own brother who is also her bodyguard wouldn't notice it's a different person.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    The mask thing is always a massive ask every time: I can just about look past it with some suspension of disbelief, but if you think about it for even a second, the idea that people's eyes would fit into a mask of someone else whose eyes and mouth etc. are all different distances apart...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    The TV show used to have the person that wears the mask be someone who already slightly resembles the person they want to have impersonated, and that target was usually played by the cast member with makeup/prosthetics applied.

    The first movie does exactly this with Tom Cruise playing both Ethan Hunt masked and the senator that he’s impersonating.

    image-from-ios-3.jpg


    The second film even acknowledges that with Ambrose being a selected agent because he resembles Ethan Hunt enough in terms of bone structure and such to pull it off.

    I think it’s with the third film where they start going even crazier with the masks by having Tom Cruise impersonating Philip Seymour Hoffman, who looks nothing like Tom Cruise. It’s funny that they never play a joke on something like that where they remark how the person suddenly looks shorter than the person impersonated.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    Yes I liked that thing in the first one where it was Cruise playing other characters; in fact he seemed to be the equivalent character to Rollin Hand from the TV show- he was the impersonator on the team. But then by the end of the same film, a mask allowed him to look exactly like Phelps.
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