Batman

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2023 Posts: 16,590
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Pfeiffer will always be the best Selina / Catwoman, and personally DeVito is my favorite Penguin still (I’m just a big Batman Returns fan in general), but Kravitz did an excellent job. I found her a big upgrade from Anne Hathaway in TDKR, who was alright, but kind of felt like a more generic Catwoman IMO, with the least believable relationship with Bruce of the bunch.

    Yes, Hathaway was a weirdly sort of chaste Catwoman, wasn't she? Catwoman should have a bit more danger to her.
    Although Pfeiffer's one is perhaps of her time and wouldn't feel very modern now, she's definitely still the standout. I must admit I can't really remember Kravitz's one, she didn't leave much impact on me.

    I watched the new Guardians of the Galaxy last night and I could imagine Zoe Saldana being a great Selina. I think she's a bit fed up with all of these franchises though! :)
  • Digging all this Michelle Pfeiffer praise. I’d actually argue that Pfeiffer’s performance as Catwoman strongly rivals Heath Ledgers performance as Joker for me.
  • Posts: 12,518
    I blame Nolan and the script a lot more than Hathaway herself for the performance - in any case, easily the weakest to me. Pfeiffer’s meek file clerk was done just as wonderfully as her lethal, hyper-sexual Catwoman. A real shame that kind of character can’t be done now. I guess I’ll have to settle as the only big Kravitz fan. She felt so real and relatable to me - maybe it’s the dad issues stuff.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited August 2023 Posts: 9,511
    @FoxRox , I don’t think you’re the only one who loves Kravitz. Everyone who I know, who saw the film, really liked her. I was definitely in the minority.

    And I agree Hathaway wasn’t to blame. It was written so blandly. Apart from her long hair and leather outfit (and a very nice figure), there was nothing sexy about HER, the character.

    Yes, Pfeiffer’s wild performance will always be timeless to me @007ClassicBondFan !
  • Posts: 12,518
    peter wrote: »
    @FoxRox , I don’t think you’re the only one who loves Kravitz. Everyone who I know, who saw the film, really liked her. I was definitely in the minority.

    And I agree Hathaway wasn’t to blame. It was written so blandly. Apart from her long hair and leather outfit (and a very nice figure), there was nothing sexy about HER, the character.

    Yes, Pfeiffer’s wild performance will always be timeless to me @007ClassicBondFan !

    Fair enough, and well said.

    For anyone who has them: how are the 4Ks for the Batman movies, specifically 89-97 anthology? Would really love to see Burton’s films pop even more!
  • peter wrote: »
    @FoxRox , I don’t think you’re the only one who loves Kravitz. Everyone who I know, who saw the film, really liked her. I was definitely in the minority.

    And I agree Hathaway wasn’t to blame. It was written so blandly. Apart from her long hair and leather outfit (and a very nice figure), there was nothing sexy about HER, the character.

    Yes, Pfeiffer’s wild performance will always be timeless to me @007ClassicBondFan !

    Same here! She’s such a standout element in Batman Returns, and I’d argue her chemistry with Keaton is what makes Returns my favorite of the live action Bat-Flicks. I also have to say I’m in your camp on Kravitz. She wasn’t bad in the role, but she lacks that seductiveness that Pfeiffer had. Even Hathaway had a bit of that I thought.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    peter wrote: »
    @FoxRox , I don’t think you’re the only one who loves Kravitz. Everyone who I know, who saw the film, really liked her. I was definitely in the minority.

    And I agree Hathaway wasn’t to blame. It was written so blandly. Apart from her long hair and leather outfit (and a very nice figure), there was nothing sexy about HER, the character.

    Yes, Pfeiffer’s wild performance will always be timeless to me @007ClassicBondFan !

    Same here! She’s such a standout element in Batman Returns, and I’d argue her chemistry with Keaton is what makes Returns my favorite of the live action Bat-Flicks. I also have to say I’m in your camp on Kravitz. She wasn’t bad in the role, but she lacks that seductiveness that Pfeiffer had. Even Hathaway had a bit of that I thought.

    @007ClassicBondFan – you nailed it: the chemistry between Pfeiffer and Keaton elevated both of the characters. They were very sexy together, and real (in such a surreal film); they were shy around each other, and clumsy (think about when Bruce asks her over to watch the lighting of the Christmas tree, or with them on the couch, in front of the roaring fireplace), and as their alter egos, they were absolutely animalistic and erotic (their battles were aggressively sexual; they took turns at who was on top. They were sensual to the extreme, from her licking Batman’s face (and him tasting her saliva), to the extremes of her stabbing him in the ribs with one of her talons (meow), and him pitching acid into her arm.

    It was an incredible coupling!!
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    FoxRox wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @FoxRox , I don’t think you’re the only one who loves Kravitz. Everyone who I know, who saw the film, really liked her. I was definitely in the minority.

    And I agree Hathaway wasn’t to blame. It was written so blandly. Apart from her long hair and leather outfit (and a very nice figure), there was nothing sexy about HER, the character.

    Yes, Pfeiffer’s wild performance will always be timeless to me @007ClassicBondFan !

    Fair enough, and well said.

    For anyone who has them: how are the 4Ks for the Batman movies, specifically 89-97 anthology? Would really love to see Burton’s films pop even more!

    They look really good if you can get past the teal tint of the night scenes.
  • Posts: 6,710
    Digging all this Michelle Pfeiffer praise. I’d actually argue that Pfeiffer’s performance as Catwoman strongly rivals Heath Ledgers performance as Joker for me.

    Oh yes, I quite agree with that. What a legendary performance.
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 1,394
    Hathaway is my favourite Catwoman. Loved the realistic approach they took with the character and she looked amazing in that catsuit.

    And man! Those lips! Imagine what she can do with those 😍

    As for the 4Ks of Batman 89 and Returns…they look horrible.They have this weird blue teal tint and they replaced certain sound effects to make the fikms sound more “ modern “.I’m sticking with my Blu rays
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,125
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Hathaway is my favourite Catwoman. Loved the realistic approach they took with the character and she looked amazing in that catsuit.

    And man! Those lips! Imagine what she can do with those 😍

    As for the 4Ks of Batman 89 and Returns…they look horrible.They have this weird blue teal tint and they replaced certain sound effects to make the fikms sound more “ modern “.I’m sticking with my Blu rays

    I heard that the main reason some 4K remasters look awful is because they are made in a rush.
    This has happened before with some Blu-Rays too.
  • Posts: 12,518
    Well, I see the 4K anthology comes with Blu-Ray versions anyways, so looks like nothing much to lose going after it sometime.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    And man! Those lips! Imagine what she can do with those 😍

    I’m guessing you’re under 25, or you don’t have a lot of women friends in your life?
  • Posts: 12,518
    I watched videos comparing the old and new sound mixes for Batman ‘89 and I have to say, as someone who has seen the film more than 20 times, I really don’t understand what the big fuss is about. The new ones still keep plenty of the cartoony clangs and does not at all feel like a radical departure; I’m not sure I would have even noticed if it hadn’t been pointed out.

    As for the teal filter, I read apparently that that makes the 4K closest to the original theatrical image, so that’s not exactly an authenticity problem. I certainly didn’t mind it from the clips I saw. I will watch the film entirely again soon when I get it to see if anything really sticks out, but I’m guessing the complaints are a bit overblown, at least from my perspective.
  • FoxRox wrote: »
    I watched videos comparing the old and new sound mixes for Batman ‘89 and I have to say, as someone who has seen the film more than 20 times, I really don’t understand what the big fuss is about. The new ones still keep plenty of the cartoony clangs and does not at all feel like a radical departure; I’m not sure I would have even noticed if it hadn’t been pointed out.

    As for the teal filter, I read apparently that that makes the 4K closest to the original theatrical image, so that’s not exactly an authenticity problem. I certainly didn’t mind it from the clips I saw. I will watch the film entirely again soon when I get it to see if anything really sticks out, but I’m guessing the complaints are a bit overblown, at least from my perspective.

    I’ve noticed that the new 4K transfers also have updated some of the sound effects too. I’ve had these transfers on my wishlist for quite some time now, but I haven’t been in much of a hurry to own them.
  • Posts: 12,518
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I watched videos comparing the old and new sound mixes for Batman ‘89 and I have to say, as someone who has seen the film more than 20 times, I really don’t understand what the big fuss is about. The new ones still keep plenty of the cartoony clangs and does not at all feel like a radical departure; I’m not sure I would have even noticed if it hadn’t been pointed out.

    As for the teal filter, I read apparently that that makes the 4K closest to the original theatrical image, so that’s not exactly an authenticity problem. I certainly didn’t mind it from the clips I saw. I will watch the film entirely again soon when I get it to see if anything really sticks out, but I’m guessing the complaints are a bit overblown, at least from my perspective.

    I’ve noticed that the new 4K transfers also have updated some of the sound effects too. I’ve had these transfers on my wishlist for quite some time now, but I haven’t been in much of a hurry to own them.

    YMMV, but as a longtime, huge fan of the movie and being immediately concerned when I heard they changed the sound, I was totally fine with it. Normally I’m very opposed to changing any art, and I suppose this does still go against that principle, but it was so subtle for me I just didn’t even care in this case. Nothing like George Lucas Star Wars stuff.
  • FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I watched videos comparing the old and new sound mixes for Batman ‘89 and I have to say, as someone who has seen the film more than 20 times, I really don’t understand what the big fuss is about. The new ones still keep plenty of the cartoony clangs and does not at all feel like a radical departure; I’m not sure I would have even noticed if it hadn’t been pointed out.

    As for the teal filter, I read apparently that that makes the 4K closest to the original theatrical image, so that’s not exactly an authenticity problem. I certainly didn’t mind it from the clips I saw. I will watch the film entirely again soon when I get it to see if anything really sticks out, but I’m guessing the complaints are a bit overblown, at least from my perspective.

    I’ve noticed that the new 4K transfers also have updated some of the sound effects too. I’ve had these transfers on my wishlist for quite some time now, but I haven’t been in much of a hurry to own them.

    YMMV, but as a longtime, huge fan of the movie and being immediately concerned when I heard they changed the sound, I was totally fine with it. Normally I’m very opposed to changing any art, and I suppose this does still go against that principle, but it was so subtle for me I just didn’t even care in this case. Nothing like George Lucas Star Wars stuff.

    It doesn’t bother me either. In fact I got quite the kick out of it! The only thing that seems disappointing to me are these 4K versions being unavailable to stream, either on MAX or wherever else.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,213
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Normally I’m very opposed to changing any art, and I suppose this does still go against that principle, but it was so subtle for me I just didn’t even care in this case. Nothing like George Lucas Star Wars stuff.

    When it comes to new sound mixes, I think a worse offender is the one made for SUPERMAN 78 where they actually change the foley sounds and added things that weren’t in the original (and in some cases, took out dialogue, resulting in characters now mouthing words that don’t come through sound).
  • Posts: 12,518
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Normally I’m very opposed to changing any art, and I suppose this does still go against that principle, but it was so subtle for me I just didn’t even care in this case. Nothing like George Lucas Star Wars stuff.

    When it comes to new sound mixes, I think a worse offender is the one made for SUPERMAN 78 where they actually change the foley sounds and added things that weren’t in the original (and in some cases, took out dialogue, resulting in characters now mouthing words that don’t come through sound).

    Seriously??? That sounds really bad. First I’ve heard of it. Is this specifically for 4K or Blu-Ray too?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,213
    FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Normally I’m very opposed to changing any art, and I suppose this does still go against that principle, but it was so subtle for me I just didn’t even care in this case. Nothing like George Lucas Star Wars stuff.

    When it comes to new sound mixes, I think a worse offender is the one made for SUPERMAN 78 where they actually change the foley sounds and added things that weren’t in the original (and in some cases, took out dialogue, resulting in characters now mouthing words that don’t come through sound).

    Seriously??? That sounds really bad. First I’ve heard of it. Is this specifically for 4K or Blu-Ray too?

    It’s been that way ever since the first DVD from 2001. It wasn’t until the Blu-ray for the theatrical cut that they started including the original stereo mix. The Atmos mix is derived from the 2001 remix.
  • Posts: 12,518
    Oh. Welp. In that case, that’s how I’ve always watched it x’D
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,213
    One thing that is nice about the remix is that John Williams’ score was remastered so it had a “cleaner” sound to it compared to the original stereo. But you can also tell from the remix that the “whoosh” sound effects of the credits are given more bass.

    1978 Mix



    2001 Remix

  • edited August 2023 Posts: 12,518
    Interesting! Yeah, the only way I’ve seen Superman is a few times on DVD. It’s funny to think though, since that’s what I’m used to / all I knew, that it doesn’t matter near as much to me. In the grand scheme, an audio change here or there is a far lesser issue than like CGI insertion / replacement, for instance. I used to be way better about catching small details when I was younger, but like how I am now, I could watch the “new” version of Batman 89 now, then the one with the old sounds in much less than a year, and probably notice almost nothing different off the top of my head haha.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,693
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    edited August 2023 Posts: 1,125
    SA5-649bbf2eb29fc__700.jpg
    Super_Antics_18-649bbf4e63922__700.jpg

    From the illustrator Kerry Callen.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited August 2023 Posts: 4,693
    https://dcau.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_&_Mr._Freeze:_SubZero

    It saddens me that Subzero was cut down in material and tone. I feel the version of the movie we got could have just been a BTAS two-parter. I don't honestly see The Joker and Harley Quinn teaming up with Mr. Freeze, as I don't see the BTAS Mr. Freeze as insane. This version would have been a good finale in the DCAU for both Freeze and Nora. Both getting cured, with a bittersweet ending. Ironically, Mark Hamill and Arleen Sorkin recorded their lines. The original cut could have been released to theaters like Mask of the Phantasm, hopefully better promoted. Release the Subzero Workprint! Subzero joins Batman Forever and Suicide Squad as DC movies that deserve their original cut. I know that Batman and Robin messed some things up, but Subzero could have fixed a lot of things for Batman, Robin, Batgirl and especially Mr. Freeze.

    https://dcanimated.com//WF/sections/backstage/abandoned/

    While I'm happy that WB and DC are making animated movies more often now (often from BTAS and DCAU staff, thankfully), I wish we could have gotten one or two more in BTAS style. Batman: Arkham had some true promise.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,693
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,251
    MaxCasino wrote: »

    Still my absolute favorite of the four! I rank them as:

    1) AA
    2) AK
    3) AC



    4) AO
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 12,518
    Can’t wait for the Nintendo Switch edition coming soon. I adore the first couple in particular, both 10/10s. Going to hit different after Conroy’s tragic passing. I’d rank:

    1. Arkham City
    2. Arkham Asylum
    3. Arkham Origins
    4. Arkham Knight

    Frankly, I thought Knight was very disappointing story-wise and made a big mistake with Scarecrow’s characterization and shoehorning in The Joker - it’s the one where I’d say the extra / side content surpassed the main campaign. The Professor Pyg mission in particular is a highlight. The bosses and bat-tank also bring it down a bit. Origins on the other hand, while not close to the first two, was pretty underrated IMO. Love the bosses and Christmas setting.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,251
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Can’t wait for the Nintendo Switch edition coming soon. I adore the first couple in particular, both 10/10s. Going to hit different after Conroy’s tragic passing. I’d rank:

    1. Arkham City
    2. Arkham Asylum
    3. Arkham Origins
    4. Arkham Knight

    Frankly, I thought Knight was very disappointing story-wise and made a big mistake with Scarecrow’s characterization and shoehorning in The Joker - it’s the one where I’d say the extra / side content surpassed the main campaign. The Professor Pyg mission in particular is a highlight.

    My beef with Origins is that it doesn't have the two lead voices I want (though Craig Smith and Baker do very well), tends to go buggy on me, and has a poor story overall. I in particular find the crime-scene-investigation missions a bit tedious.

    But the AO score is awesome! Christopher Drake knows what he's doing. I wish he'd be more involved with the Batman films.
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