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Totally agreed. The only issues I have with the script are when it comes to the two keys, but I traced their path on my recent rewatch and it all makes sense now. I even had a running list throughout but I'm an idiot and deleted it before posting it.
Regardless, the one key that Ilsa gets off the courier and hands to Ethan (that ends up changing hands with Grace throughout) is one of the genuine keys throughout. All the others are counterfeit, until we're told the other genuine key is in the possession of the White Widow. The only nagging point left is how both keys were mysteriously acquired when the bodies were found in the thawed ice yet how they both went to completely different people.
Agreed the whole key thing was difficult 2 keep track of on first viewing but the Movie benefits from rewatches and makes it more clear.I would guess the questions you raised will be answered in part 2.
It looks like Hunt and his team will have to deep dive to the wreck of the sub in part 2 as that is where the main core of “ The Entity “ is located right? So it looks like the car chase is not the only thing from FYEO that Cruise and McQuarrie were inspired by!
And you said it. I do think that'll end up encompassing the finale, or at least a big chunk at some point. I figure either:
It's actually a fine example of how not to write a female character when it comes to Ilsa, for my money. A really poor series of creative decisions.
I don't think any writing in regards to Ilsa is bad, per se, but the whole movie really feels like they suddenly didn't know what to do with her character and were desperate to replace her with Grace. Such a mind-boggling and aggravating decision after building her up over the last few installments.
And Ilsa is the better character. I, for one, was gutted, no pun intended. What a shame, to loose that character like that. A Mathis kind of situation, if you ask me. She deserved better.
I disagree.Ilsa served her purpose in the previous two films and her death increases the personal stakes for Hunt in taking Gabriel down ( The brief flashbacks allude to a similar incident in Hunts past during a previous encounter with Gabriel many years previously).
And I liked how they handled Ilsas death.She went out fighting.You’re supposed to feel “ gutted “ as you say because she had become a beloved character.It’s about time they killed a major character off in this series.
To some of us that is called 'fridging'. It's not good writing.
Exactly. Awful writing. Fallout was a masterpiece in the writing department by comparison.
McQ’s writing previously felt masterful to me but here it was ragged and disjointed. Hopefully it’s just a blip.
Grace is not much of a replacement for me.
Absolutely correct. No amount of flashbacks can make it any more acceptable. The fact that she died at the hands of someone clearly not as skilled as some of the villains she's previously faced and bested just added additional insult.
Kill off a beloved character all you want to increase emotional stakes; no issue with that. However it simply must make sense logically in order for the emotion to land afterwards.
I'd have left it at the fakeout death in this installment, rather than her "dying" only to come back and then die for real.
The only thing I can think of that may have influenced their decision making was Ferguson's availability coupled with the Covid issues they faced during shooting meaning they couldn't keep shooting back to back. I don't envy them in the slightest - but I'd have really preferred if they left her in hiding and she returned to help save the day in part two (perhaps getting her heroic death then, instead).
Like Tracy Bond
;)
No a character dying isn't automatically fridging.
No I don’t buy into that “ fridging “ nonsense.It’s just a word made up by the woke feminists to complain when a female character isn’t front and center kicking all the horrible white males in every movie.
I liked Ilsa but the Mission Impossible movies,while they have an ensemble cast,there is no question they are TOM CRUISE movies.Ethan Hunt is the main character and Ilsas death propels him forward in this story and makes his mission to stop Gabriel more personal.
Does anyone here complain about the “ Fridging “ of Vesper in CR?
The concept of "fridging" has been around since before you were born, and from a time where the word "woke" actually related to someone's status of sleeping/not sleeping. So no, not really.
This isn't an excuse for bad writing. And yes, while increasing the emotional angle may have been the intention, the writing of it is so hodgepodge that it doesn't land. Ethan already has a personal motivation to stop Gabriel, too.
No, because that's not an example of it.
Revenge movies need that.
Which is of course the death of a previous ladyfriend. I guess you could say McQ is trying to set up some rhymes and recurring elements in there, but I'm not sure it's not repetitious and just looks a bit like he couldn't think of another way of making it personal. And killing off love interests is a touch trite already; doing it twice has the potential for it to be doubly so.
When the flashback started I actually thought for a moment we were going back to Sarah from the first movie being killed, which I wouldn't have minded it linking back to. Kristin Scott Thomas was easily one of the better love interests from the MI films for my money.
It's funny to imagine her being Tom's love interest in a movie made today. Just wouldn't happen as she dares to look her age.
Yep.
Hulloooo, hulloooo.
🙄
Also, "fridging" is about the phenomenon of women character being killed to move a male character's story arc forward being far more common than the other way around. I don't think anyone ever claimed it's always wrong to do that. What people said (I mean in general, not in this topic) is that it's wrong that it's far more common than the other way around.
Well action movies are mostly made for men so it’s only natural that more women get “ fridged “.
Ilsa was fridged, and in this case, it was poor writing because she was immediately replaced by an almost identical character. I find arguments saying Ilsa had no ground left to stand on as a character in Ethan's story as nonsense from someone who lacks imagination. They could be lovers, they could be platonic, why can't she join the IMF and be another Benji-type team partner? You can't on one hand say Luther belongs in every movie and hasn't been forcefully written in lately, and then on the other hand say there are zero story options for Ilsa in an action movie with 20 functional characters. Come on.
MI7 is bad writing, and MI6 is right there to show it up.
The Ilsa death may not have me in the seat for MI8. 7 was so sloppy to me. I'm glad it's somebody's favorite at least. Someone let me know if Ilsa comes back once 8 is released, as I also do suspect that's likely the case.
Luther on the other hand acts in a similar vein to Benji, but is more successful in getting the info or unraveling the puzzle that the team my need. You could drop either of them and the films would still work, but they need at least one of them, for the team element to succeed.
Personally I enjoy both Luther and Benji, and find them to be great additions to the cast.
I guess Della comes the closest perhaps..? Maybe Jill Masterson, but Bond didn’t care massively deeply about her.
I think that’s a bit strong. The issue with Ilsa is that she’s been shown to not really want to be a long term part of the team, and also to basically want out of the game, so to join IMF would contradict her character somewhat. Maybe they could have found a way to sell it to us, but also arguably with DR these films were reaching a stage where they’re getting too repetitive and need a shakeup (personally I’d have killed Benji off).
The exposition scene after the desert sequence was ridiculous to me, the way every character in the room was finishing the next person's sentence was really grating to me for some reason this time round.
I'm still not fond of Grace as a character, it becomes a bit repetitive watching Ethan chase Grace and the CIA guys chase Ethan.
Loved the action again this time round, that alleyway fight is exhilarating and the bike jump still has me holding my breath
I do wish they hadn't have changed the MI team backstory though. The Choice element feels really last minute and tacked on. Ethan and the team only joined the IMF to avoid prison, isn't that the same as The Man From Uncle?
Feels like that goes against Ethan and the teams collective character, they've always known right from wrong even when others don't.
1) They lulled us into a false sense of security by “ killing “ her in the opening of the film only for it to be fake before actually killing her for real.
2) Ethan finds her with a big knife sticking out her chest
I said this about Fallout considering the stakes and themes of that one. Benji is only a part of the team because of Ethan, essentially.
But it would have been doubly effective here considering the technological nature of the enemy. Ethan losing a massive chunk of his tech support in the field would have ramped things up a bit for me. It looks like they're going to push the analog vs digital thing in the next one, to boot.
It would have been cool to have Benji be the one to stumble into Gabriel and Grace on the bridge, too. We all expected to see Ilsa, of course, but Benji also went looking for Ethan/everyone after the comms were hacked. Gabriel's victory would have made physical sense then, too.
Yeah, especially considering they made the name up themselves. They could have called it anything.
I really hated that scene in the cinema- it just kills the pace stone dead. There's also just way too much backstory and detail in it: I feel like they tell us far too much we don't need to know. Ethan does something mildly clever to escape but it's nothing close to the fake hospital gag at the start of Fallout - this film just doesn't hit the ground running and feels leaden where Fallout was nimble and audience-pleasing.
Yeah it's very rinse-and-repeat: the CIA guys don't really advance through the story. It's like they're in a cartoon - they just turn up to chase the pigeon.
And I feel the same about Grace; I just don't find her attractive. I don't mean in a physical or sexual sense: I'm not attracted to the character and I found myself just not wanting to spend time with her. I guess it's a personal thing: I've seen folks say they found Phoebe Waller Bridge to be irritating in Indiana Jones which I can't understand, but I'm the same with the Grace character. She just rubs me up the wrong way, especially as she was effectively replacing the much-better Ilsa in my eyes.
Yes, those are wonderfully executed.
Also agreed: it feels a bit of large swing of backstory which affects all of the previous films, and I don't buy it that the Ethan in those was originally a dodgy character who changed his ways. He's cleaner than clean: that's his thing. Why wouldn't the bosses who were chasing him every previous time he's gone rogue have mentioned that whenever they were going though his file and telling about his parents' farm etc.? Angela Bassett had a chip on her shoulder about the IMF being 'Halloween' in Fallout, if they were actually an organisation entirely made up of ex-criminals you'd have thought that would have been the bigger issue for her and she might have mentioned it!
Yup, works for me.
The stuff with Benji directing Ethan on his bike at the end feels a little tired: we've been there now. I'm not sure how much more he has to give.
And yes, I thought he really might die at the end of Fallout. I guess it's for the best he didn't as it would have been a downer ending which isn't what the film was going for, but they could have ditched him here.