Where does Bond go after Craig?

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Comments

  • CrabKey wrote: »
    The deflation from SF to SP was interesting. Not everyone agrees of course, but many of us were less enthusiastic about Mendes' second effort.

    The lesson of SP is: if a director is not enthusiastic about directing the next Bond film, don't force it. Mendes wasn't enthusiastic about directing another Bond film after Skyfall but EON managed to convince him. Likely with money. They should have just moved on once they realized that Mendes did not really want to do it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 12 Posts: 6,304
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I think it's fair to argue that a Cameron Bond film could happen, he could do it, it would be marketable and likely commercially successful.

    Would it be interesting or "good"? That's to taste and chance. But it won't happen, because as has been outlined, Cameron doesn't seem very interested, and frankly the producers probably aren't interested in working with him just based on his reputation and tendency lately to delay his projects for ever-expanding scope. They're hopefully headed in the opposite direction.

    I do worry Bond will get much more American influence behind the camera going forward, though I'm not sure I trust British culture to be any better to ground Bond in these days.

    Cameron, in many ways, is the American precursor to Nolan. A visionary who demands complete creative control, sometimes to his detriment. And a better director than a writer.

    Where they differ is that Cameron has crass humor, while Nolan is humorless.

    Neither one should get anywhere near Bond.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @mtm - finished Andrew’s video notes. I love how he briefly, but intelligently, touches on the script writing process, both in this film, and films in general. A million decisions made, for only one film.

    People who are unsure how films come together, and Bond pictures in particular, should give this video a listen through to the end.

    Thanks again for posting the link. I loved every second of his meditation. So good.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    No problem, glad you enjoyed it!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    CrabKey wrote: »
    The deflation from SF to SP was interesting. Not everyone agrees of course, but many of us were less enthusiastic about Mendes' second effort.

    The lesson of SP is: if a director is not enthusiastic about directing the next Bond film, don't force it. Mendes wasn't enthusiastic about directing another Bond film after Skyfall but EON managed to convince him. Likely with money. They should have just moved on once they realized that Mendes did not really want to do it.

    There’s that, but I think there was also a genuine effort to make a more traditional Bond film after SF subverted the tropes. Problem ultimately came down to the script never clicking.
  • echo wrote: »
    Neither one should get anywhere near Bond.

    I have no problem with someone disliking Nolan but how can you say he should not be anywhere near Bond? If God almighty himself engineered the perfect Bond director, they would be pretty much like Nolan. British, is a huge Bond fan, has successfully directed several mega budget action/adventure movies, is highy acclaimed and at the hight of his powers + he is available. What more could anyone possibly want?

    I really feel like I am living in Bizarro World anytime a Bond fan is vehemently against the idea of Nolan directing Bond.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    CrabKey wrote: »
    The deflation from SF to SP was interesting. Not everyone agrees of course, but many of us were less enthusiastic about Mendes' second effort.

    The lesson of SP is: if a director is not enthusiastic about directing the next Bond film, don't force it. Mendes wasn't enthusiastic about directing another Bond film after Skyfall but EON managed to convince him. Likely with money. They should have just moved on once they realized that Mendes did not really want to do it.

    There’s that, but I think there was also a genuine effort to make a more traditional Bond film after SF subverted the tropes. Problem ultimately came down to the script never clicking.

    Yeah, it seems like this is the one which had more interference than most, and the story just never settled into place as a result. Mendes is on record as saying the last act fell apart on him, and I don't know what you do about that. It's not actually incoherent, they still made a film which makes sense, so that's something.
    And I think it does feel more like a trad Bond movie too, but Mendes also obviously wanted to be telling a story which was a worthy follow-up to SF otherwise there really would be no point in doing it, and I think they didn't get too far off it: they just didn't manage to make it come together in time. Plus Craig basically broke his leg making it and is in a cast for a lot of it: it seems a bit of a nightmare shoot (and no wonder you got the 'wrist slashing' joke when asked if he wanted to make another right away).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Because Nolan probably isn’t the best choice. Eon has a whole lot of other options out there.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    echo wrote: »
    Neither one should get anywhere near Bond.

    I have no problem with someone disliking Nolan but how can you say he should not be anywhere near Bond? If God almighty himself engineered the perfect Bond director, they would be pretty much like Nolan. British, is a huge Bond fan, has successfully directed several mega budget action/adventure movies, is highy acclaimed and at the hight of his powers + he is available. What more could anyone possibly want?

    Someone who can do a sexy, warm film; someone who can do good jokes; someone with a sense of fun.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited January 12 Posts: 16,351
    Calling Nolan the director engineered by God to make the perfect Bond film makes me not want him even more. He's just a human being, not some holy figure. 8-|
  • Posts: 2,165
    Murdock wrote: »
    Calling Nolan the director engineered by God to make the perfect Bond film makes me not want him even more. He's just a human being, not some holy figure. 8-|

    That title has been earned twice by Martin Campbell 😂
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Mallory wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Calling Nolan the director engineered by God to make the perfect Bond film makes me not want him even more. He's just a human being, not some holy figure. 8-|

    That title has been earned twice by Martin Campbell 😂

    I'll take a third Bond film directed by Campbell over Nolan any day.
  • Posts: 1,368
    mtm wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Neither one should get anywhere near Bond.

    I have no problem with someone disliking Nolan but how can you say he should not be anywhere near Bond? If God almighty himself engineered the perfect Bond director, they would be pretty much like Nolan. British, is a huge Bond fan, has successfully directed several mega budget action/adventure movies, is highy acclaimed and at the hight of his powers + he is available. What more could anyone possibly want?

    Someone who can do a sexy, warm film; someone who can do good jokes; someone with a sense of fun.

    mmm... Guy Ritchie? ;)
    Because Nolan probably isn’t the best choice. Eon has a whole lot of other options out there.



    Sure, they can hire another TV director.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 12 Posts: 2,044
    As a Nolan fan, I'm going to be honest and say a Nolan Bond film would be a serious hit....critically and commercially. But that's not the problem. The problem is, EON might not want his style. But if you ask me, after how Bond was doing some very non-Bondian things in NTTD and the family theme in NTTD, a flashback scene, Bond dying, etc. I'm struggling to see how Nolan could go more unconventional than that.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    As a Nolan fan, I'm going to be honest and say a Nolan Bond film would be a serious hit....critically and commercially. But that's not the problem. The problem is, EON might not want his style. But if you ask me, after how Bond was doing some very non-Bondian things in NTTD and the family theme in NTTD, a flashback scene, Bond dying, etc. I'm struggling to see how Nolan could go more unconventional than that.

    Yeah but I think that even the haters of NTTD on here will say that Fukunaga co-wrote, directed an, with his editing team, cut an entertaining film.

    The last time Nolan made an entertaining film was (maybe) THE DARK KNIGHT (but another of my opinions is that was because of Heath Ledger: he took off as the role of Joker, and elevated a plodding ho-hum flick). Each film since 2008 has grown longer (minus Dunkirk, which was short on time, but still strained some of my attention); each of his movies is more tedious and less disciplined (he meanders because he doesn’t know how to self-edit, his scripts all feel like second drafts. He writes ideas, not films);

    His last attempt at a straight up thriller was Tenet, and that was a good looking disaster, from start to finish.

    The best part of Oppenheimer, for me, was the final act; at least it had a point. But how does someone take a hell raising eccentric like Oppenheimer and make him bland? And he can’t write or direct women. I love Blunt, but, she was a miserable caricature in this film. One dimensional, as most of Nolan’s characters are, but especially the women— which would be a huge problem in a Bond film. If Nolan directed Paloma, kiss good bye the energy of Ana and that sequence….

    So…
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    I have a few quibbles with NTTD but it is entertaining and beautifully shot. I just finished re-watching True Detective Season 1; it really was outstanding. I would have loved to have seen what he could have done with Bond and a clean slate.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    talos7 wrote: »
    I have a few quibbles with NTTD but it is entertaining and beautifully shot. I just finished re-watching True Detective Season 1; it really was outstanding. I would have loved to have seen what he could have done with Bond and a clean slate.

    I also recently re-watched TD S1 @talos7 … you’re right: Fukunaga had the chops, and assembled brilliant production teams, that I would have loved to have seen him launch a new actor into the new era.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 12 Posts: 2,044
    peter wrote: »
    As a Nolan fan, I'm going to be honest and say a Nolan Bond film would be a serious hit....critically and commercially. But that's not the problem. The problem is, EON might not want his style. But if you ask me, after how Bond was doing some very non-Bondian things in NTTD and the family theme in NTTD, a flashback scene, Bond dying, etc. I'm struggling to see how Nolan could go more unconventional than that.

    Yeah but I think that even the haters of NTTD on here will say that Fukunaga co-wrote, directed an, with his editing team, cut an entertaining film.

    The last time Nolan made an entertaining film was (maybe) THE DARK KNIGHT (but another of my opinions is that was because of Heath Ledger: he took off as the role of Joker, and elevated a plodding ho-hum flick). Each film since 2008 has grown longer (minus Dunkirk, which was short on time, but still strained some of my attention); each of his movies is more tedious and less disciplined (he meanders because he doesn’t know how to self-edit, his scripts all feel like second drafts. He writes ideas, not films);

    His last attempt at a straight up thriller was Tenet, and that was a good looking disaster, from start to finish.

    The best part of Oppenheimer, for me, was the final act; at least it had a point. But how does someone take a hell raising eccentric like Oppenheimer and make him bland? And he can’t write or direct women. I love Bl9unt, but, she was a miserable caricature in this film. One dimensional, as most of Nolan’s characters are, but especially the women— which would be a huge problem in a Bond film. If Nolan directed Paloma, kiss good bye the energy of Ana and that sequence….

    So…

    Hmmmm. Yeah, I see what you mean and know about that in Nolan. I also understand why some fans don't connect with him. But as a fan of his, my eyes are blind to those flaws of his. Also, if he doesn't get to make a Bond film, it's fine. He would still be Nolan to me and I can hardly wait for his next film :)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    peter wrote: »
    As a Nolan fan, I'm going to be honest and say a Nolan Bond film would be a serious hit....critically and commercially. But that's not the problem. The problem is, EON might not want his style. But if you ask me, after how Bond was doing some very non-Bondian things in NTTD and the family theme in NTTD, a flashback scene, Bond dying, etc. I'm struggling to see how Nolan could go more unconventional than that.

    Yeah but I think that even the haters of NTTD on here will say that Fukunaga co-wrote, directed an, with his editing team, cut an entertaining film.

    The last time Nolan made an entertaining film was (maybe) THE DARK KNIGHT (but another of my opinions is that was because of Heath Ledger: he took off as the role of Joker, and elevated a plodding ho-hum flick). Each film since 2008 has grown longer (minus Dunkirk, which was short on time, but still strained some of my attention); each of his movies is more tedious and less disciplined (he meanders because he doesn’t know how to self-edit, his scripts all feel like second drafts. He writes ideas, not films);

    His last attempt at a straight up thriller was Tenet, and that was a good looking disaster, from start to finish.

    The best part of Oppenheimer, for me, was the final act; at least it had a point. But how does someone take a hell raising eccentric like Oppenheimer and make him bland? And he can’t write or direct women. I love Blunt, but, she was a miserable caricature in this film. One dimensional, as most of Nolan’s characters are, but especially the women— which would be a huge problem in a Bond film. If Nolan directed Paloma, kiss good bye the energy of Ana and that sequence….

    So…

    Hmmmm. Yeah, I see what you mean and know about that in Nolan. I also understand why some fans don't connect with him. But as a fan of his, my eyes are blind to those flaws of his.

    I used to be a fan too, @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ , when he did INSOMNIA and BB, but those films were more producer-driven and they had a short leash on him— plus his brother was assisting with script duties.

    But the leash is long gone, and I can’t see Nolan returning to producer-heavy films…
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 12 Posts: 6,304
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    As a Nolan fan, I'm going to be honest and say a Nolan Bond film would be a serious hit....critically and commercially. But that's not the problem. The problem is, EON might not want his style. But if you ask me, after how Bond was doing some very non-Bondian things in NTTD and the family theme in NTTD, a flashback scene, Bond dying, etc. I'm struggling to see how Nolan could go more unconventional than that.

    Yeah but I think that even the haters of NTTD on here will say that Fukunaga co-wrote, directed an, with his editing team, cut an entertaining film.

    The last time Nolan made an entertaining film was (maybe) THE DARK KNIGHT (but another of my opinions is that was because of Heath Ledger: he took off as the role of Joker, and elevated a plodding ho-hum flick). Each film since 2008 has grown longer (minus Dunkirk, which was short on time, but still strained some of my attention); each of his movies is more tedious and less disciplined (he meanders because he doesn’t know how to self-edit, his scripts all feel like second drafts. He writes ideas, not films);

    His last attempt at a straight up thriller was Tenet, and that was a good looking disaster, from start to finish.

    The best part of Oppenheimer, for me, was the final act; at least it had a point. But how does someone take a hell raising eccentric like Oppenheimer and make him bland? And he can’t write or direct women. I love Blunt, but, she was a miserable caricature in this film. One dimensional, as most of Nolan’s characters are, but especially the women— which would be a huge problem in a Bond film. If Nolan directed Paloma, kiss good bye the energy of Ana and that sequence….

    So…

    Hmmmm. Yeah, I see what you mean and know about that in Nolan. I also understand why some fans don't connect with him. But as a fan of his, my eyes are blind to those flaws of his.

    I used to be a fan too, @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ , when he did INSOMNIA and BB, but those films were more producer-driven and they had a short leash on him— plus his brother was assisting with script duties.

    But the leash is long gone, and I can’t see Nolan returning to producer-heavy films…

    +1!

    Nolan needs his brother as a collaborator. He needs someone to cut through the pomposity and be honest with him about the story. (I'm guessing that DiCaprio--who has even more clout than Nolan--took on that task with Inception, which I liked.)

    We've seen this before. Think of George Lucas. He had good collaborators--the great Lawrence Kasdan--on the first trilogy. Not so much on the second.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 12 Posts: 2,044
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    As a Nolan fan, I'm going to be honest and say a Nolan Bond film would be a serious hit....critically and commercially. But that's not the problem. The problem is, EON might not want his style. But if you ask me, after how Bond was doing some very non-Bondian things in NTTD and the family theme in NTTD, a flashback scene, Bond dying, etc. I'm struggling to see how Nolan could go more unconventional than that.

    Yeah but I think that even the haters of NTTD on here will say that Fukunaga co-wrote, directed an, with his editing team, cut an entertaining film.

    The last time Nolan made an entertaining film was (maybe) THE DARK KNIGHT (but another of my opinions is that was because of Heath Ledger: he took off as the role of Joker, and elevated a plodding ho-hum flick). Each film since 2008 has grown longer (minus Dunkirk,h was short on time, but still strained some of my attention); each of his movies is more tedious and less disciplined (he meanders because he doesn’t know how to self-edit, his scripts all feel like second drafts. He writes ideas, not films);

    His last attempt at a straight up thriller was Tenet, and that was a good looking disaster, from start to finish.

    The best part of Oppenheimer, for me, was the final act; at least it had a point. But how does someone take a hell raising eccentric like Oppenheimer and make him bland? And he can’t write or direct women. I love Blunt, but, she was a miserable caricature in this film. One dimensional, as most of Nolan’s characters are, but especially the women— which would be a huge problem in a Bond film. If Nolan directed Paloma, kiss good bye the energy of Ana and that sequence….

    So…

    Hmmmm. Yeah, I see what you mean and know about that in Nolan. I also understand why some fans don't connect with him. But as a fan of his, my eyes are blind to those flaws of his.

    I used to be a fan too, @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ , when he did INSOMNIA and BB, but those films were more producer-driven and they had a short leash on him— plus his brother was assisting with script duties.

    But the leash is long gone, and I can’t see Nolan returning to producer-heavy films…

    Oh, yeah, for sure...he isn't returning to those.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    As a Nolan fan, I'm going to be honest and say a Nolan Bond film would be a serious hit....critically and commercially. But that's not the problem. The problem is, EON might not want his style. But if you ask me, after how Bond was doing some very non-Bondian things in NTTD and the family theme in NTTD, a flashback scene, Bond dying, etc. I'm struggling to see how Nolan could go more unconventional than that.

    Yeah but I think that even the haters of NTTD on here will say that Fukunaga co-wrote, directed an, with his editing team, cut an entertaining film.

    The last time Nolan made an entertaining film was (maybe) THE DARK KNIGHT (but another of my opinions is that was because of Heath Ledger: he took off as the role of Joker, and elevated a plodding ho-hum flick). Each film since 2008 has grown longer (minus Dunkirk,h was short on time, but still strained some of my attention); each of his movies is more tedious and less disciplined (he meanders because he doesn’t know how to self-edit, his scripts all feel like second drafts. He writes ideas, not films);

    His last attempt at a straight up thriller was Tenet, and that was a good looking disaster, from start to finish.

    The best part of Oppenheimer, for me, was the final act; at least it had a point. But how does someone take a hell raising eccentric like Oppenheimer and make him bland? And he can’t write or direct women. I love Blunt, but, she was a miserable caricature in this film. One dimensional, as most of Nolan’s characters are, but especially the women— which would be a huge problem in a Bond film. If Nolan directed Paloma, kiss good bye the energy of Ana and that sequence….

    So…

    Hmmmm. Yeah, I see what you mean and know about that in Nolan. I also understand why some fans don't connect with him. But as a fan of his, my eyes are blind to those flaws of his.

    I used to be a fan too, @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ , when he did INSOMNIA and BB, but those films were more producer-driven and they had a short leash on him— plus his brother was assisting with script duties.

    But the leash is long gone, and I can’t see Nolan returning to producer-heavy films…

    Oh, yeah, for sure...he isn't returning to those.

    And logically, I think this rules him out of Bond, for the time being.
  • edited January 12 Posts: 3,327
    I dunno how or why Cameron factored in this thread. Might as well name drop Ridley Scott while you’re at it.

    Though I think Tony Scott would have made a real cracking Bond film with the right script.

    Yeah, I like Tony Scott. He might have started all those Michael Bay visuals.....difference is, he doesn't make it too juvenile like Bay....especially the jokes. But still he doesn't care that much about story, only style like Bay.

    And that’s fine. Some Bond movies really are more about style than story, such as the Lewis Gilbert flicks. Tony Scott would have delivered in that wheelhouse.

    I would have loved Tony Scott to have done a Bond film, but there again he is one of my all time favourites, so I'm biased.

    Look at what Tony Scott did with Enemy of the State and Spy Game, both conspiracy/spy type thrillers. He would have done a great job with Bond.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    As a Nolan fan, I'm going to be honest and say a Nolan Bond film would be a serious hit....critically and commercially. But that's not the problem. The problem is, EON might not want his style. But if you ask me, after how Bond was doing some very non-Bondian things in NTTD and the family theme in NTTD, a flashback scene, Bond dying, etc. I'm struggling to see how Nolan could go more unconventional than that.

    Yeah but I think that even the haters of NTTD on here will say that Fukunaga co-wrote, directed an, with his editing team, cut an entertaining film.

    The last time Nolan made an entertaining film was (maybe) THE DARK KNIGHT (but another of my opinions is that was because of Heath Ledger: he took off as the role of Joker, and elevated a plodding ho-hum flick). Each film since 2008 has grown longer (minus Dunkirk,h was short on time, but still strained some of my attention); each of his movies is more tedious and less disciplined (he meanders because he doesn’t know how to self-edit, his scripts all feel like second drafts. He writes ideas, not films);

    His last attempt at a straight up thriller was Tenet, and that was a good looking disaster, from start to finish.

    The best part of Oppenheimer, for me, was the final act; at least it had a point. But how does someone take a hell raising eccentric like Oppenheimer and make him bland? And he can’t write or direct women. I love Blunt, but, she was a miserable caricature in this film. One dimensional, as most of Nolan’s characters are, but especially the women— which would be a huge problem in a Bond film. If Nolan directed Paloma, kiss good bye the energy of Ana and that sequence….

    So…

    Hmmmm. Yeah, I see what you mean and know about that in Nolan. I also understand why some fans don't connect with him. But as a fan of his, my eyes are blind to those flaws of his.

    I used to be a fan too, @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ , when he did INSOMNIA and BB, but those films were more producer-driven and they had a short leash on him— plus his brother was assisting with script duties.

    But the leash is long gone, and I can’t see Nolan returning to producer-heavy films…

    Oh, yeah, for sure...he isn't returning to those.

    And logically, I think this rules him out of Bond, for the time being.

    Yeah. It's looking that way. As always I don't like being delusional. I'm not going to kid myself and say Nolan and Eon won't disagree on certain things. Of course, I would want them to agree. But after the Boyle situation, I'm not living in hope that Nolan would direct, even I would have loved that sort of living.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Bond super fan Calvin Dysons updated Bond movie ranking list ( I didn’t know where else to post this )

    Never seen Moonraker rated so highly in a ranking list before!

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Moonraker is #2 on my ranking.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Murdock wrote: »
    Moonraker is #2 on my ranking.

    Cool!

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    peter wrote: »
    I’m about half way through @mtm …. Andrew really knows his stuff. I love how he dissects themes, character, story-elements like swagger and humour, and the idea of plot vs story; he’s able to theorize about unexplored threads that kind of just stop in the finished film, likely being remnants from earlier drafts.Great observations on his part.

    I’m also enjoying Andrew’s corrections, how he takes what’s there and makes a few chops (the PTS we have now, for example, and starts the PTS with the rooftop battle with Mitchell; from a story perspective Andrew is using start late/leave early (which should be the tact we use for story, and for every single scene).

    I hadn’t thought about this in a while, but I just tried watching QoS from Sienna onwards, cutting out the car chase, and it really does work so much better!
  • Posts: 7,507
    Because Nolan probably isn’t the best choice. Eon has a whole lot of other options out there.

    Who is your pick?
  • edited January 13 Posts: 678
    I don't think Nolan is the only choice for Bond next, but I also don't get the idea that he wouldn't know how to serve us a good Bond film. This is a man who not only made a hugely succesful comic book series which WAS fun, he also somehow made a hugely succesful 3hr biopic which might win the Oscar for Best Picture. Who expected people in droves to sit through a 3hr Oppenheimer biopic in 2023?

    I feel like opinions are very much divided and the truth is actually somewhere in the middle.

    Regardless, there are certainly other choices, of course. I would've been interested in a Cameron movie maybe in the 90's, but nowadays I don't think he's interested unless it's a VFX extravaganza.
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