Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 6,709
    One man's gold is another's sh*t, as ever :) That's the way I like these forums, a true coming together of voices, different ones at that. And I have to respect that. Although I must say, as a big Blade Runner fan, I did enjoy 2049 a lot. And I did enjoy Dune. I think Denis is a true talent. Any man with that respect and admiration for David Lean and LOA, has my own respect.

    And he is a huge Bond fan. I have no problem imagining him dropping everything for Bond. Well, everything except Dune 3.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    Univex wrote: »
    One man's gold is another's sh*t, as ever :) That's the way I like these forums, a true coming together of voices, different ones at that. And I have to respect that. Although I must say, as a big Blade Runner fan, I did enjoy 2049 a lot. And I did enjoy Dune. I think Denis is a true talent. Any man with that respect and admiration for David Lean and LOA, has my own respect.

    And he is a huge Bond fan. I have no problem imagining him dropping everything for Bond. Well, everything except Dune 3.

    Villeneuve greatly impressed me with Prisoners, Enemy and Sicario. I was more than pleased with the BR sequel, a project that I didn't support originally. Arrival is one of the best sci-fi films ever made in my opinion. If Villeneuve ever did a Bond film, I'd certainly be interested.

    I get that some people may find him "boring". He never goes for the quick "bang" or "boom"; he allows us time to absorb the story, the setting, and the slowly built tension. But satisfaction is guaranteed, in my opinion. Sicario, for example, has me on the edge of my seat early; Arrival keeps my eyes glued to the screen from the first second. I don't find the man's work boring at all. A lot is going on in almost every scene, even if things aren't always moving fast.

    Then again, not all Bond directors were action directors before (or even while) they were making their Bond film. Capable second-unit directors can take care of the action when needed. But Bond films need good performances, a bit of drama and suspense, and well-staged scenes as well. With that in mind, I would prefer a Villeneuve Bond film over a Justin Lin Bond film.

    And as @Univex said, he is a huge Bond fan. He's not likely to ruin the fun by turning a Bond film into something it isn't.
  • edited February 17 Posts: 6,709
    @DarthDimi, Arrival is one of my favorite Sci-fi films ever. And you are right, as a big Kubrick fan, he does allow us time to absorb everything. He creates mood, he is a world builder, a true artist. We'd be lucky to have him as a Bond director, IMO. And I too was suspicious of a BR sequel and then I loved it, and have since return to it many, many times, almost as many as with the original. Denis knows cinema, I've heard him lecture on many related topics, and he is a true connoisseur.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited February 17 Posts: 24,184
    @Univex, Indeed, he is. And filmmakers like Villeneuve may not do many action thrillers (if you'll allow me to call a Bond film that) but that doesn't mean they can't. And when they do it, there's a good chance that it will be stylized (not over-stylized) action, which I appreciate.

    I've heard people call Nolan's action scenes boring or poorly made, but I disagree: Inception and The Dark Knight films had great action in my book, just not hyper-adrenalized action like what Neveldine & Taylor brought us with Crank and Gamer. I don't think Bond would play well in the latter genre. But if Nolan were ever to make a Bond film, I wouldn't be afraid that the action would suck; rather, I'd be confident that it would be well conceived (by Nolan among others) and expertly executed by EoN's trusted action units.

    Same thing with Villeneuve. I'm already convinced that he could take care of the spy/suspense thriller side of the game, that he would elicit great performances from his cast and that scenes would look awesome. The one variable he's less known for, would still not worry me.

    Lastly, I don't think it would be fair to use Dune's pacing as an example of why he shouldn't do a Bond film. Dune, by the nature of the story, is slow, has to dump a lot of data, and has to introduce us to an unusual but large and detailed world. No one could navigate that story any faster or more "exciting" without turning in a bastardization of the book. The power of Dune is that we're transported to vistas, events and characters so different from our world, that we are immersed in impressions, experiences and lore rather than in high-octane adventures. Bond, on the other hand, has a far more brisk, kiss-kiss-bang-bang! attitude in his DNA. A professional like Villeneuve would have no trouble, I believe, stepping into that game with the proper approach. If Villeneuve ever made a Bond film, I'm fairly certain he'd make a proper Bond film, not an arthouse project that hopes to collect some statues at the next Academy Awards.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Our minds are aligned, @DarthDimi, as usual. Very, very good post, my friend.
  • Posts: 4,166
    Prisoners is such a great film. But I must admit, I find all of Villeneuve’s other films a bit dull, accomplished as they are. Even Sicario, Dune and Arrival don’t do much for me.
  • Posts: 12,474
    007HallY wrote: »
    Prisoners is such a great film. But I must admit, I find all of Villeneuve’s other films a bit dull, accomplished as they are. Even Sicario, Dune and Arrival don’t do much for me.

    I loved Blade Runner 2049, liked Prisoners, didn’t care a lot for Arrival in hindsight. Haven’t seen the others myself but wanted to try at least.
  • Posts: 1,996
    What I don't want to see in a Bond film are over the top fight and action scenes that defy gravity, the laws pf physics, sprays of bullets that never hit the main character, and physical punishment that no human body could withstand. Scenes such as those are standard in action films these days. I want the next Bond to be far from a super hero and a super human being. I accept that green screen is necessary for many reasons, but let's not have an effects extravaganza. Nor do I want Bond to go into space again. If the next Bond is going to be a less serious Bond more along the lines of RM, let's lean more toward wit rather than comedy. Even though the Paloma scene in NTTD is one of my favorites, that's about as far as I want a Bond film to go in terms of a fight scene. It was probably a bit too choreographed to play realistically. Fun, but let's not go any further than that. The best Bond films are those that seem plausible.
  • Posts: 2,161
    I’m pretty much with you @CrabKey , but the Paloma scene has certainly lost its luster for me.
  • Posts: 1,860
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I just don't see Denis dropping everything for Bond anytime soon. We shouldn't want him for Bond 26 in that regard, he is very much booked. And I want Dune 3: Messiah this decade, over his Bond film, sorry. Plenty of people can make a good Bond movie now, Denis is busy and will get a shot if he really wanted, I'm sure. But 26 may not be it. Though, I imagine for BB, it would be one hell of a coup to get him to drop a few projects for your movie. That would be quite the headline.

    In terms of the actual quotes of the evening... we're not getting any major news from a press pool side chat at a non-Eon event/venue. We shouldn't want little nuggets, we should want and expect something big. Something like a press conference, even.

    I will say though, having interviewed her in a press setting myself within the past year, BB does seem a little... patient. But then again, from what I surmise, she always is aloof like that until there's money in play.

    Barbara has always been a bit aloof. Perhaps even a little socially shy.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited February 17 Posts: 6,304
    peter wrote: »
    Why is no one also analyzing this exchange?:

    I nodded towards director Denis Villeneuve, in town for the world premiere Thursday of his exciting Dune: Part Two, who was seated with Dune producer and documentarian Tanya Lapointe at Broccoli’s table, and when I asked if she’d discussed the next Bond with him, she avoided the question. “I must go and say goodnight to the Prime Minister,” she uttered.

    Villeneuve met with Broccoli and wanted to direct Craig in his last film, but he couldn’t make the schedule work as he was already in preproduction for Dune.

    Now he’s at her table last night…

    Broccoli brushed away the annoying press.

    She has nothing to tell us, but there are things moving.

    He would be an exciting choice. And he has experience, with Blade Runner, in casting a lead where the previous lead was a megastar. I wonder when the next opening in his directing schedule is.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited February 17 Posts: 8,400
    I'm an admirer of Denis' work but to be honest I want him as far away from Bond 26 as possible. We just watched a 15 year long arc of a Bond who never quite got to be Bond, before watching him get incinerated, leaving his wife and young daughter to a world without him. The last thing we need is another Bond film rooted in the shadows, full of angst, and oppressive atmosphere. I like Denis, and he could probably make a great a Bond film at some point, but for right now we need the "here comes the sun" to Craigs "while my guitar gently weeps". I agree with Edgar Wright about this, there are dark chocolate and milk chocolate bonds, and ideally they should alternate. Connery, Dalton and Craig were dark chocolate, Lazenby, Moore and Brosnan were milk chocolate, and it's time for a lighter, more playful take on the character, to show what Bond can be at his best. After all, looking behind the veil, and seeing the fragile, tortured soul therein only has any significance if there exists a veil to begin with.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    Who knows, Barbara may be willing to wait until he’s finished his Dune trilogy; we may have a VERY long wait for the next Bond.
  • Yeah I’d put Villenueve in the same bracket as Nolan. He could make a good one, but the time to get him was the Craig era. I can’t see anything he’d do being different enough in tone to those films now.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    What I don't want to see in a Bond film are over the top fight and action scenes that defy gravity, the laws pf physics, sprays of bullets that never hit the main character, and physical punishment that no human body could withstand. Scenes such as those are standard in action films these days. I want the next Bond to be far from a super hero and a super human being. I accept that green screen is necessary for many reasons, but let's not have an effects extravaganza. Nor do I want Bond to go into space again. If the next Bond is going to be a less serious Bond more along the lines of RM, let's lean more toward wit rather than comedy. Even though the Paloma scene in NTTD is one of my favorites, that's about as far as I want a Bond film to go in terms of a fight scene. It was probably a bit too choreographed to play realistically. Fun, but let's not go any further than that. The best Bond films are those that seem plausible.

    I do think that should be Bond’s niche when it comes to action, along with a sense of humour in the more bombastic bits. NTTD seemed to be inspired by the highly coreographed, John Wick sort of stuff we’ve seen really take off over the last few years, similar to how QoS had echoes of Bourne and the Brosnan era was inspired by 90s action extravaganzas. And I did like the stairwell scene. But that sort of stuff doesn’t feel distinctly Bond in the way that the fights in CR, which had a Connery style visceral quality to them, or the stunts and chases in the Mendes movies, which had a Moore esque tongue in cheek sense of fun, did.

    If Bond wants to set itself apart again I think the way to go is shootouts and scraps that feel dirty and real, and chase scenes/stunts with visual gags and a sense of absurtity. That’s the sort of action that lets you know straight away it’s a 007 film imo.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    talos7 wrote: »
    Who knows, Barbara may be willing to wait until he’s finished his Dune trilogy; we may have a VERY long wait for the next Bond.
    Let's assume that won't happen. If people weren't available in the past, the production still moved on without them. That's why "Remington Steele won't be James Bond."
    FoxRox wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Prisoners is such a great film. But I must admit, I find all of Villeneuve’s other films a bit dull, accomplished as they are. Even Sicario, Dune and Arrival don’t do much for me.

    I loved Blade Runner 2049, liked Prisoners, didn’t care a lot for Arrival in hindsight. Haven’t seen the others myself but wanted to try at least.

    @FoxRox I definitely recommend that you watch Sicario. I don't think you'll regret it.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    The best Bond films are those that seem plausible.

    I agree. But some of the not so plausible ones can still be charming.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    There is a whole larger than Life upper register to Bond that was put on ice in the Craig era, and it's about time we got to embrace that spirit again. Imagine writing a piece like "backseat driver" for the Craig films - it just wouldn't fit, nor would it fit in a denis villenueve bond film. But that swagger and verve is such a essential part of what makes bond special and so iconic, that to not lean into it every so often would be a huge missed opportunity. People like to see bond being Bond, and whatever high-minded, post modern spin you put on it, that's still the core of what draws people to the series, it's the old goldfinger "men want to be him, women want to be with him".
  • Denis Villeneuve would be an excellent choice if we can't get Nolan. I still need to see Sicario. Loved Arrival and Bladerunner 2049.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,052
    For sure, Villeneuve has got an eye for big, bold and striking visuals, but I don't know about the action scenes and the pacing.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    For sure, Villeneuve has got an eye for big, bold and striking visuals, but I don't know about the action scenes and the pacing.

    The action is usually handled by other units.
  • edited February 17 Posts: 4,166
    There is a whole larger than Life upper register to Bond that was put on ice in the Craig era, and it's about time we got to embrace that spirit again. Imagine writing a piece like "backseat driver" for the Craig films - it just wouldn't fit, nor would it fit in a denis villenueve bond film. But that swagger and verve is such a essential part of what makes bond special and so iconic, that to not lean into it every so often would be a huge missed opportunity. People like to see bond being Bond, and whatever high-minded, post modern spin you put on it, that's still the core of what draws people to the series, it's the old goldfinger "men want to be him, women want to be with him".

    I’d say we definitely got scenes like the ‘backseat driver’ one in the Craig era. Under a director like Sam Mendes we got Bond commandeering construction diggers on trains (which is wonderful, classic Bondian absurdity - why would it even be working?) him conveniently landing on a sofa during an explosion. NTTD is about as larger than life as a Bond film can get, and while I have issues with Fukunaga’s approach, we got a number of lighthearted scenes which fans would argue wouldn’t seem out of place in the Brosnan era.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    007HallY wrote: »
    There is a whole larger than Life upper register to Bond that was put on ice in the Craig era, and it's about time we got to embrace that spirit again. Imagine writing a piece like "backseat driver" for the Craig films - it just wouldn't fit, nor would it fit in a denis villenueve bond film. But that swagger and verve is such a essential part of what makes bond special and so iconic, that to not lean into it every so often would be a huge missed opportunity. People like to see bond being Bond, and whatever high-minded, post modern spin you put on it, that's still the core of what draws people to the series, it's the old goldfinger "men want to be him, women want to be with him".

    I’d say we definitely got scenes like the ‘backseat driver’ one in the Craig era. Under a director like Sam Mendes we got Bond commandeering bulldozers on trains (which is wonderful, classic Bondian absurdity - why would it even be working?) him conveniently landing on a sofa during an explosion. NTTD is about as larger than life as a Bond film can get, and while I have issues with Fukunaga’s approach, we got a number of lighthearted scenes which fans would argue wouldn’t seem out of place in the Brosnan era.

    I'll give you that - if the next Bond film is 2 hrs of the tone of the paloma sequence from Bond 25, similar to how Casino Royale took the Korea torture opening of DAD and expanded on it, I think the cinemas will be packed to the gills for the next film.
  • edited February 17 Posts: 4,166
    007HallY wrote: »
    There is a whole larger than Life upper register to Bond that was put on ice in the Craig era, and it's about time we got to embrace that spirit again. Imagine writing a piece like "backseat driver" for the Craig films - it just wouldn't fit, nor would it fit in a denis villenueve bond film. But that swagger and verve is such a essential part of what makes bond special and so iconic, that to not lean into it every so often would be a huge missed opportunity. People like to see bond being Bond, and whatever high-minded, post modern spin you put on it, that's still the core of what draws people to the series, it's the old goldfinger "men want to be him, women want to be with him".

    I’d say we definitely got scenes like the ‘backseat driver’ one in the Craig era. Under a director like Sam Mendes we got Bond commandeering bulldozers on trains (which is wonderful, classic Bondian absurdity - why would it even be working?) him conveniently landing on a sofa during an explosion. NTTD is about as larger than life as a Bond film can get, and while I have issues with Fukunaga’s approach, we got a number of lighthearted scenes which fans would argue wouldn’t seem out of place in the Brosnan era.

    I'll give you that - if the next Bond film is 2 hrs of the tone of the paloma sequence from Bond 25, similar to how Casino Royale took the Korea torture opening of DAD and expanded on it, I think the cinemas will be packed to the gills for the next film.

    This is just my perspective, and I do like the Cuba sequence, but getting the balance between tension, absurdity and heightened reality with Bond (particularly action sequences) can be a particular skill. I think Fukunaga substituted that absurdity for visual style.

    Campbell and Mendes generally kept that trait of the Bond films alive - we could get moments like Bond hijacking tanks or diggers without question, and it played into a high stakes sequence. Again, it’s a very particular trait that took time for the Bond series to develop. Not even Young had it. It’s quite tricky predicting which director will have that skill.
  • weboffearweboffear Scotland
    Posts: 52
    Denis Villeneuve has said in an interview for Dune 2 that he would like to do something in-between Dune 2 and 3
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,052
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    For sure, Villeneuve has got an eye for big, bold and striking visuals, but I don't know about the action scenes and the pacing.

    The action is usually handled by other units.

    Yeah. That's the positive side.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    weboffear wrote: »
    Denis Villeneuve has said in an interview for Dune 2 that he would like to do something in-between Dune 2 and 3

    IMDb lists him as having both Cleopatra and Rendezvous with Rama in development. I don't know if he could fit in Bond there, too. Possibly the two films mentioned are a long way off from shooting?
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    weboffear wrote: »
    Denis Villeneuve has said in an interview for Dune 2 that he would like to do something in-between Dune 2 and 3

    Denis Villeneuve Says He Might Need a 'Detour' Before 'Dune 3' for His 'Mental Sanity' "For my mental sanity I might do something in between, but my dream would be to go a last time on this planet that I love," Villeneuve said, noting the script for the third film is "almost finished."


    https://www.indiewire.com/news/general-news/denis-villeneuve-detour-before-dune-messiah-1234933531/
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    The last thing we need is another Bond film rooted in the shadows, full of angst, and oppressive atmosphere.

    Hmm, that sounds like Fleming.

    IMHO, Villeneuve is a better storyteller than Nolan. I'd sign him up immediately if I were Eon.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 17 Posts: 3,152
    Yes, ok, fair enough - due to the pacing, Villeneuve's films can sometimes seem a bit flat in parts. But Sicario has a constant sense of danger just below the surface and a palpable, oppressive tension that ratchets up throughout. I could easily picture Villeneuve's Bond film having the qualities of Matera, but with the screws tightened and sustained. That's a Bond movie I want to see.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited February 17 Posts: 8,400
    echo wrote: »
    The last thing we need is another Bond film rooted in the shadows, full of angst, and oppressive atmosphere.

    Hmm, that sounds like Fleming.

    IMHO, Villeneuve is a better storyteller than Nolan. I'd sign him up immediately if I were Eon.

    Yeah, and not every film should be a straight read of fleming, that's how we ended up with a franchise that spanned 25 films in the first place. ;)
  • Posts: 4,166
    I’m not sure if any Bond film has been angst ridden or quite that dark or humourless. Even LTK features Bond doing stuff like harpooning a plane and ‘water skiing’. The likes of SF and NTTD have fatalistic ideas in there, but they’re both films full of tonal shifts towards being lighthearted, heightened reality, quintessential Bondian tropes, humour etc. Fleming’s novels are similarly varied, and they become more outlandish as they go on (although similar to the later Craig films you get novels like YOLT and I’d say DN which are able to mix darkness with that absurdity very well. It’s personally what I think Bond films should aspire to).

    But yeah, I really can’t think of many Bond films which miss that mark in terms of not being able to reconcile the ‘light’ and the ‘dark’ as well as that Bondian absurdity…. The closest films I’d say come to missing that sweet spot is either TB or QOS, but even then they’re not films with oppressive atmospheres by any means.
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