Does NO TIME TO DIE have the best ending in the franchise?

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    CrabKey wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I'd never want to join a club that would have me as a member - GM

    Hmm, well, these are our principles, and if you don’t like them… … well, we have others.

    Principles? Principles? We don't need no stinkin' principles.

    Fine— you’re in.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    edited June 15 Posts: 107
    mtm wrote: »
    Simon wrote: »
    "Let me tell you about a man named Bond, James Bond. He killed your grandfather, and nearly got me killed numerous times. There was this one time he did save me from being strapped to a building rigged to explode, but that was only after I left him in the street because I didnt want the life he would provide. We did hook up about 10 minutes later though. He abandoned me while pregnant due to chronic trust issues, even after 5 years together, and was still hung up on an ex-girlfriend he knew for a few days over a decade ago."

    When did they ever say that Bond and Madeleine spent five years together? Why would it take Madeleine this long to take Bond "home"?

    I quite like the 'home' thing, as it's a little hint towards the nesting impulse of a pregnant lady. A bit early of course, but it's a movie :)
    They do just feel like a believable couple in that opening sequence to me. Is she the most charismatic character in the world? No, but we've all had mates who fall in love with people and we can't quite understand why :D

    Not sure how this relates to my post, though :P I asked Simon why he believes that the Matera scenes are set five years after Spectre, as that would imply that Madeleine waited that long before she took Bond to her house... even though she says she wanted to show him her father's secret room.

    Also, that would mean everything after the title sequence is set 10 years after SP... So Bond hasn't seen any of his collegues for a decade? And Blofeld waited five years before doing something to separate Bond and Madeleine?
    Simon wrote: »
    When did they ever say that Bond and Madeleine spent five years together? Why would it take Madeleine this long to take Bond "home"?

    Brain rot on my part. NTTD takes part 5 years after SP, but the gap between SP and NTTD's PTS is unknown I think??

    Yeah, it's never outright stated. Though Fukunaga did say that NTTD is set five years after SP, and I assume he meant the post-title sequence part (so the majority of the movie), which means the PTS is set shortly after SP (a few months at most).
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 16 Posts: 3,158
    No, I can't remember anyone giving an official 'canon' date for Matera either. For myself, it works better if Bond and Madeleine get there however long it's taken them to drive leisurely down through Europe after the end of SP. Weeks, not months. Other interpretations are available, etc.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,620
    Yeah, I think they're trying to hint at that when she says the view (i.e Bond's face) is "growing on me". They haven't been together a huge amount of time, although obviously long enough to fall pregnant and know about it.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,335
    Well, over here they're also stating it was 5 years (https://www.cinemablend.com/movies/no-time-to-die-madeleine-swanns-big-secret-explained) and I think Mathilde's age is mentioned somewhere? It's that plus app. 8 months, Madeleine knows she's pregnant but forgets to tell Bond when he's thinking she has betrayed him. (Would he still think that if he knew she was with child? We'll never know. The film definately would go a different route then).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,620
    Well, over here they're also stating it was 5 years

    Even that link says the opening happens 'right after Spectre'.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,390
    #dontmesswiththetimeline ;)

    What year is QoS in, again?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    echo wrote: »
    #dontmesswiththetimeline ;)

    What year is QoS in, again?

    Easy:

    Using quantum physics, alternative universes and combing formulas, Quantum Of Solace starts a few hours and a few days, simultaneously, after the events of CR!
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 16 Posts: 3,158
    And also in 2008, according to the date on the invitation to the Greene Planet event!
    mtm wrote: »
    They haven't been together a huge amount of time, although obviously long enough to fall pregnant and know about it.
    Would it be a good tie-in if Mathilde had been conceived as a result of the bout on the train in SP or would that be a bit too pat? Can't decide, but I sort of quite like the idea, tbh.
  • Posts: 2,027
    I doubt NTTD picks up right where SP left off. Enough time has elapsed for M & B to have a relationship and she get pregnant. She clearly indicates her pregnancy on the train prior to Bond leaving for five years.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 17 Posts: 3,158
    Yes, the pregnancy was also pretty clearly what she was referring to when she said 'There's something I need to tell you' just before the start of the Matera car chase. I dunno, though, one missed period after the train scene in SP and a test a few weeks after that to make sure - Madeleine could've known she was pregnant a handful of weeks after the end of SP. A leisurely drive down through France and Italy would cover it before they reached Matera. All speculation, though, so yes, there could well be a longer gap between SP and Matera.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I thought NTTD picked up weeks prior to the end of Spectre, meaning Madeleine got pregnant on the train in SP, hence why her pregnancy isn't showing in Matera.

    The way I looked at it, was they left London in the DB5, travelled to a few places, ended up in Matera and they were planning going "home" to Madeleine's childhood home in Norway
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,158
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    The way I looked at it, was they left London in the DB5, travelled to a few places, ended up in Matera and they were planning going "home" to Madeleine's childhood home in Norway
    Yes, me too. Hence the whole idea of her wanting Bond to say goodbye to Vesper before they moved on with their new lives.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,232
    The only timeline quibble I have with NTTD is the development of Hercules. Bond states M has been supporting its development for ten years, despite SF being only a few months before SP, and the majority of NTTD being only five years after that.

    Unless Mallory was heavily involved in weapons development while in his role in Whitehall. Bond also has significant knowledge of the whole thing despite not knowing Mallory prior to SF and clearly being too busy during and after he does get to know him.

    It struck me as odd at the time and it still throws me on rewatch.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 17 Posts: 2,186
    The only timeline quibble I have with NTTD is the development of Hercules. Bond states M has been supporting its development for ten years, despite SF being only a few months before SP, and the majority of NTTD being only five years after that.

    Unless Mallory was heavily involved in weapons development while in his role in Whitehall. Bond also has significant knowledge of the whole thing despite not knowing Mallory prior to SF and clearly being too busy during and after he does get to know him.

    It struck me as odd at the time and it still throws me on rewatch.

    Lol. Yeah. (Shake my head/Roll my eyes) Phew! Well, that's what happens when Bond films want to be forcefully and unnecessarily linked. That's still one of my issues with Craig's Bond era....even if I'm a fan of his Bond.
    Standalone Bond films makes it easier for the filmmakers to work freely. Plus, there's also lots of room for variety of characters. If Madeleine didn't return for NTTD, Paloma could have easily been the new Bond girl and they would have probably made Nomi a villain...maybe a mole or something.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,620
    The only timeline quibble I have with NTTD is the development of Hercules. Bond states M has been supporting its development for ten years, despite SF being only a few months before SP, and the majority of NTTD being only five years after that.

    Unless Mallory was heavily involved in weapons development while in his role in Whitehall. Bond also has significant knowledge of the whole thing despite not knowing Mallory prior to SF and clearly being too busy during and after he does get to know him.

    It struck me as odd at the time and it still throws me on rewatch.

    Yes that's a point, plus it perhaps doesn't feel like Nomi has only been in the job for a few weeks.
  • edited June 17 Posts: 4,308
    The only timeline quibble I have with NTTD is the development of Hercules. Bond states M has been supporting its development for ten years, despite SF being only a few months before SP, and the majority of NTTD being only five years after that.

    Unless Mallory was heavily involved in weapons development while in his role in Whitehall. Bond also has significant knowledge of the whole thing despite not knowing Mallory prior to SF and clearly being too busy during and after he does get to know him.

    It struck me as odd at the time and it still throws me on rewatch.

    Lol. Yeah. (Shake my head/Roll my eyes) Phew! Well, that's what happens when Bond films want to be forcefully and unnecessarily linked. That's still one of my issues with Craig's Bond era....even if I'm a fan of his Bond.
    Standalone Bond films makes it easier for the filmmakers to work freely. Plus, there's also lots of room for variety of characters. If Madeleine didn't return for NTTD, Paloma could have easily been the new Bond girl and they would have probably made Nomi a villain...maybe a mole or something.

    I actually prefer Nomi not being a mole (women betraying Bond in some way seems to have cropped up a lot since the late Brosnan era, and between Miranda Frost, Mitchell, C, Ash we seem to have a lot of fellow agents being moles/secretly villains). Same for Paloma being a secondary Bond girl - she’s a fun character but I think if she’d outstayed her welcome she’d have become weaker.

    For what it’s worth I’m glad NTTD wrapped up Craig’s era. Every Bond film has its own identity anyway, even if it carries on from other films (ie. DN and FRWL are very different films even though they’re effectively sequels. Same for the other 60s Bond films that involve SPECTRE). It would have felt weird seeing an adventure completely unrelated to the other films for his last one. Anyway, the whole 10 years thing for Heracles is inconsequential (not seen the film in a while but I always understood it as the project being researched or whatever prior to Mallory/in early stages and he approved it going further/into the official stages or whatever as head of MI6. No idea if any dialogue backs that up or even how correct that is but it really doesn’t matter as it’s not something most people are going to think or care about, and there have been far sillier plot holes in Bond. Hell, just look at SP - a whole government merger and surveillance building seem to develop/get built in a matter of weeks. Ironically it also points to a looser approach to continuity and more individualistic films than we’re discussing).
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,186
    007HallY wrote: »
    The only timeline quibble I have with NTTD is the development of Hercules. Bond states M has been supporting its development for ten years, despite SF being only a few months before SP, and the majority of NTTD being only five years after that.

    Unless Mallory was heavily involved in weapons development while in his role in Whitehall. Bond also has significant knowledge of the whole thing despite not knowing Mallory prior to SF and clearly being too busy during and after he does get to know him.

    It struck me as odd at the time and it still throws me on rewatch.

    Lol. Yeah. (Shake my head/Roll my eyes) Phew! Well, that's what happens when Bond films want to be forcefully and unnecessarily linked. That's still one of my issues with Craig's Bond era....even if I'm a fan of his Bond.
    Standalone Bond films makes it easier for the filmmakers to work freely. Plus, there's also lots of room for variety of characters. If Madeleine didn't return for NTTD, Paloma could have easily been the new Bond girl and they would have probably made Nomi a villain...maybe a mole or something.

    I actually prefer Nomi not being a mole (women betraying Bond in some way seems to have cropped up a lot since the late Brosnan era, and between Miranda Frost, Mitchell, C, Ash we seem to have a lot of fellow agents being moles/secretly villains). Same for Paloma being a secondary Bond girl - she’s a fun character but I think if she’d outstayed her welcome she’d have become weaker.

    For what it’s worth I’m glad NTTD wrapped up Craig’s era. Every Bond film has its own identity anyway, even if it carries on from other films (ie. DN and FRWL are very different films even though they’re effectively sequels. Same for the other 60s Bond films that involve SPECTRE). It would have felt weird seeing an adventure completely unrelated to the other films for his last one. Anyway, the whole 10 years thing for Heracles is inconsequential (not seen the film in a while but I always understood it as the project being researched or whatever prior to Mallory/in early stages and he approved it going further/into the official stages or whatever as head of MI6. No idea if any dialogue backs that up or even how correct that is but it really doesn’t matter as it’s not something most people are going to think or care about, and there have been far sillier plot holes in Bond. Hell, just look at SP - a whole government merger and surveillance building seem to develop/get built in a matter of weeks. Ironically it also points to a looser approach to continuity and more individualistic films than we’re discussing).

    Oh, Yeah. Craig's era was solid for sure. I just wanted a better connection of the films and some ideas done better. But still, a solid Bond era.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,620
    I watched the opening of it again on the weekend and it struck me how the title song is maybe one of the most plot-driven we've had, as it seems to be based entirely around Bond's state of mind at that particular point of the film.
  • Posts: 2,027
    Agree, but I don't like the lyric "Was I stupid to love you?" Seems quite unlike Bond.
    Maybe "Was I mad to fall in love with you?"

    BTW - Your experiment with SUNO led me to subscribing. Quite a clever program. Not perfect, but opens the door to lots of possibilities. I've been in contact with a couple of ideas that could help immensely. They are quite open to feedback and working on some enhancements. Good on you for bringing attention to the site.
  • Posts: 1,088
    I think I read somewhere that before the song was written, the writers were shown the pre-credit sequence in its entirety. Does anyone else remember that?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,620
    Yeah, or they got the script or something. I can't entirely remember.
  • Posts: 4,308
    I know the late Chris Cornell got to visit the shoot of CR/even got to see a rough cut while he was writing his song. So yeah, it's all very connected to the actual film in the sense you can't have one without the other.
  • I remember Adele wrote her song after reading the script, she was crying in the bath tub after finishing the script I think
  • Posts: 2,027
    007HallY wrote: »
    I know the late Chris Cornell got to visit the shoot of CR/even got to see a rough cut while he was writing his song. So yeah, it's all very connected to the actual film in the sense you can't have one without the other.

    Also told in the visuals under the opening credits. Especially Vesper as the Queen of Spades.
  • Posts: 2,027
    Of the Craig films, CR is the best music and the best lyrics.
  • Posts: 3,327
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Of the Craig films, CR is the best music and the best lyrics.

    I second that. YKMN is a fantastic rock tune. I'm hoping the next Bond film gives us something like this again, or at least along the lines of LALD, AVTAK, or TLD.
  • Posts: 3,327
    peter wrote: »
    @jetsetwilly , your post was the first thing I read today, and gave me a genuine chuckle (although, some people may agree with your suggestion, 😂)!


  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 18 Posts: 16,620
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Of the Craig films, CR is the best music and the best lyrics.

    I second that. YKMN is a fantastic rock tune. I'm hoping the next Bond film gives us something like this again, or at least along the lines of LALD, AVTAK, or TLD.

    I like the tune, but it never quite goes anywhere. Skyfall has the best Craig song and score.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Of the Craig films, CR is the best music and the best lyrics.

    My favourite song of the series, it perfectly fit Casino and Daniel's new harder edge interpretation of Bond.

    I don't know what it is but I still find the word "stupid" jarring in the NTTD song. I have no idea why it just doesn't feel right in a Bond song
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