Controversial opinions about the books

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Roald Dahl should have written another Bond movie or even a book. He could have made it more colorful, something that modern Bond can lack in, in both literary and cinematic.

    That is controversial. I think he lessened YOLT. It could have made a much bigger impact if it was more true to the novel, and followed OHMSS of course.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,703
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Roald Dahl should have written another Bond movie or even a book. He could have made it more colorful, something that modern Bond can lack in, in both literary and cinematic.

    That is controversial. I think he lessened YOLT. It could have made a much bigger impact if it was more true to the novel, and followed OHMSS of course.

    That's where he got messed up. He got a second part of a story without the first. It's not all his fault: he had written a screenplay before (officially).
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2018 Posts: 6,393
    YOLT is such an inflection point for the series.

    TB took everything in a "bigger and better" direction, so you can see how Dahl was faced with a challenge in adapting a dark, introspective novel for Connery's basically flippant Bond. The Garden of Death became the piranha pool. The Question Room became a "bigger and better" volcano.

    Of course Eon never should have reversed OHMSS and YOLT, so they gave Dahl a near- impossible task. And a lead actor who was sleep-walking through the role at that point.

    In retrospect, it's amazing that YOLT isn't a bigger mess.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,703
    echo wrote: »
    YOLT is such an inflection point for the series.

    TB took everything in a "bigger and better" direction, so you can see how Dahl was faced with a challenge in adapting a dark, introspective novel for Connery's basically flippant Bond. The Garden of Death became the piranha pool. The Question Room became a "bigger and better" volcano.

    Of course Eon never should have reversed OHMSS and YOLT, so they gave Dahl a near- impossible task. And a lead actor who was sleep-walking through the role at that point.

    In retrospect, it's amazing that YOLT isn't a bigger mess.

    Yes. That's why he deserved a second chance for one or the other.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Inspired by the films thread:

    I prefer Wood s TSWLM novelization to Fleming s TSWLM.
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 684
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Inspired by the films thread:

    I prefer Wood s TSWLM novelization to Fleming s TSWLM.

    Love them both, but in my book Fleming wins hands down.
    Haven't yet read Wood's novelization but I can't imagine how it could beat Fleming. Especially TSWLM, actually. It's hard to call TSWLM a Bond book the same way you do the others, but I do think it is as good as or better than (certainly better than several of) the other books Fleming wrote.
  • Posts: 7,653
    TSWLM by Wood is indeed a very Flemingesque novel as is its sequel MR, too bad Wood was never asked to write a continuation novel not based upon a movie. I would not have minded if he done a few more novelizations especially FYEO, it would have been more than interesting.

    As for the TSWLM Fleming novel this little noir like novel us certainly different but a very easy read if you enjoy it taking place in a different genre and a very small scale adventure, which is something I truly enjoyed.
  • Posts: 7,507
    I think Fleming´s TSWLM is severely underrated. I love it!
  • Posts: 15,234
    Strog wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Inspired by the films thread:

    I prefer Wood s TSWLM novelization to Fleming s TSWLM.

    Love them both, but in my book Fleming wins hands down.
    Haven't yet read Wood's novelization but I can't imagine how it could beat Fleming. Especially TSWLM, actually. It's hard to call TSWLM a Bond book the same way you do the others, but I do think it is as good as or better than (certainly better than several of) the other books Fleming wrote.

    It doesn't beat Fleming but imo it beats the movie.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,703
    In Carte Blanche, people complain that James Bond is not written as he should be. In the wake of the metoo movement, if that book was published by today's standards, not many would complain. James Bond is meant to reflect modern times as much as possible, it would make sense to write him that way today. It was just written a few years too early. Bring on a movie adaptation!
  • Posts: 16,226
    I really think Fleming's TSWLM could be adapted to a film, particularly with Craig. If anything the plot could be used as a starting point as was TLD short story.
  • edited November 2018 Posts: 7,507
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I really think Fleming's TSWLM could be adapted to a film, particularly with Craig. If anything the plot could be used as a starting point as was TLD short story.


    I have been thinking the same thing actually. The challenge would be to make sure it doesn't take too much time - without feeling superficial. But it could be some very exiting scenes and a good start off point to a bigger story.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,703
    If they ever did another prequel book/movie on Bond's younger life, Kincade would be a great supporting character to bring back. He didn't get enough time in Skyfall.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,703
    I think all the comic books from all sources are better than the continuation novels. They feel like a good mix between literature and cinematic James Bond in the best way possible.
  • Posts: 15,234
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I think all the comic books from all sources are better than the continuation novels. They feel like a good mix between literature and cinematic James Bond in the best way possible.

    I'd agree with that.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Birdleson wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    James Bond is meant to reflect modern times as much as possible,

    I don't accept that. Certainly not the literary Bond. Fleming's Bond was a creature who clung to the past; preferring older cars and the way things were. It's a constant theme, from hating gas powered lawnmowers to rueing women's suffrage to missing pre-war Paris and New York, as well as British Colonialism. Fleming's Bond was hardly "meant to reflect modern times".

    Fleming’s Bond encountering computers and social media would be a novel in itself.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,703
    I think that once Daniel Craig is done, and if all his movies connect, they should write them into one big novel. They could write it Moonraker style, with each movie being the day of week, in style to MR. An author that could write it would be Bruce Feirstein. He's had success with writing Bond movies and video games, why not give him a big book to try? He could even put in Bloodstone, as that's his work as well.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited February 2019 Posts: 4,703
    Ian Fleming Publications should take better care of the Bond movie novelisations. Christopher Wood's TSWLM and JB&MR adaptions should be put together in one book. Same with John Gardner's LTK and GE. And a trilogy pack for Raymond Benson's adaptations, with one of his short stories. There's strong material in these. Also the Bond On Set books should be rereleased, into one volume, if Greg Williams isn't doing anymore. People need to read more about James Bond outside of the novel series!
  • Posts: 7,653
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Ian Fleming Publications should take better care of the Bond movie novelisations. Christopher Wood's TSWLM and JB&MR adaptions should be put together in one book. Same with John Gardner's LTK and GE. And a trilogy pack for Raymond Benson's adaptations, with one of his short stories. There's strong material in these. Also the Bond On Set books should be rereleased, into one volume, if Greg Williams isn't doing anymore. People need to read more about James Bond outside of the novel series!

    +1
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited November 2020 Posts: 4,703
    https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/literary-anthony-horowitz-in-discussions-for-third-bond-book

    For the next James Bond novel, whether Anthony Horowitz writes it or not, needs to stop doing drugs or a doomsday machine as the villain’(s) scheme. Ever since Devil May Care, the villain’(s) plots have alternated between the two. DMC-Drugs. CB-Doomsday Machine. Solo-Drugs. TM-Doomsday Machine. FAAD-Drugs. It’s getting as old as Bond quitting or resigning from the average Purvis and Wade script.

    Also: IFP and Dynamite Comics (or who published the comic book) needs to rerelease Permission To Die. I’ve heard great things. It explores a time of mystery: Bond’s life after Tracy’s murder (EON continuity wise, anyway). Also the full Goldeneye comic. It’s about time!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,703
    If Dynamite Comics adapts Fleming's books, then IFP should adapt at least one of Dynamite's storylines: Felix Leiter. James Robinson could write it, adapting his original story, and some of the ideas he had for his possible trilogy, had he been able to write one.

    John Gardener should have been told to quit after Nobody Lives Forever. He would have a better legacy in the fans. Have another author bridge the gap between him and Raymond Benson.

    Everything or Nothing, Bloodstone and Skyfall deserved novelizations. They could have been written by Bruce Feirstein.

    IFP should start a modern day villain spinoff series, starting with Blofeld. I could see only Blofeld getting more than one book, with Irma Bunt. The only period piece would be Hugo Drax. The only film villain character that could work is Alec Trevelyan. Not every villain needs a story though.

    IFP needs to move away from Fleming's timeline. The more books they connect to it, the more desperate they seem to reconnect to it.

    Devil May Care should have taken place after Colonel Sun. Continuity would have made more sense if Faulks had done it this way.
  • Posts: 12,525
    Having just finished my second reading of it today, I'll go ahead and just add that I absolutely love TSWLM. It's ranked last or near it on most lists I'll find, but it's nowhere lower than the middle of mine. Works in just about every way for me. I love Viv, I love the first-person POV, I love the drama, action, and romance... I wrote a much longer review on the "Which Bond novel are you currently reading?" thread, anyway. But yeah, TSWLM rocks for me, better than the movie version which is also great, but just not as affecting as this.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,160
    The Bond 26 PTS must be Bond's arrival at the motel and the saving of Viv!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,348
    Venutius wrote: »
    The Bond 26 PTS must be Bond's arrival at the motel and the saving of Viv!

    It wouldn't be a bad start for a new Bond actor. It's kind of like how the Dirty Harry films often started with Callahan unexpectedly dealing with some bad guys unrelated to the rest of the plot of the film. Or like in many of the older Bond film PTS sequences for that matter.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited October 2023 Posts: 3,800
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The Bond 26 PTS must be Bond's arrival at the motel and the saving of Viv!

    It wouldn't be a bad start for a new Bond actor. It's kind of like how the Dirty Harry films often started with Callahan unexpectedly dealing with some bad guys unrelated to the rest of the plot of the film. Or like in many of the older Bond film PTS sequences for that matter.

    It would've been a great introduction for a new Bond actor:
    Imagine that motel scene where it's rainy (as described in the book), then Vivienne was almost going to be killed by the mobsters, when someone knocked the door, then Vivienne opened it, and there's this man in a raincoat whose face was hidden, only a shadow of the hood was seen, and it's covering his face, then when he put down the hood, that's when we're going to see the face of the new Bond actor.

    Introducing himself: Miss, do you have an extra room in there, by the way, my name's Bond, James Bond.

    Then Bond heard a voice from someone (another man), and Bond asked who's that, but Vivienne couldn't answer and Bond saw the fear in her face, Bond insisted on asking on who was it.

    Then Vivienne still couldn't answer and she shed a tear, then Bond forced to go inside, only to see those mobsters pointing a gun at him.

    Then that's where the action starts.
  • Posts: 17,821
    Not a controversial opinion of the novels themselves, but I happened to have a look at the original book covers by Richard Chopping tonight, and although the motifs are instantly recognisable and probably an inspiration to many artists (it wouldn't surprise me that they were an inspiration for Raymond Hawkey's The IPCRESS File book cover for example) – and the fact that I can appreciate illustrated book covers simply by the fact that they are illustrated artworks – I do find Chopping's artwork for these covers to be quite flat and boring. The perspective seems a bit "off" in elements too. Obviously there's a charm to imperfections, but the artwork seems a bit naive almost (in lack of a better way to put it).

    I much prefer the artworks for the PAN paperbacks, which are some of my favourites.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,624
    I've never liked the Choppings either; they just don't do anything for me. I know what you mean about naive.
  • I believe Fleming's James Bond in a modern sense (that is, if there was no WWII) would probably not have served in the Royal Navy or the SBS for anything more than cover purposes (Naval Attache at the Embassy, help the SBS with sabotage maybe).

    I don't think even 50s-60s 007 properly served in the Royal Navy. He tells the US commander in Thunderball that he wasn't a proper naval officer and we're told Bond joined the Secret Service from 17. His work during the war was probably limited to sabotage jobs and maybe some reconn and the light espionage that Naval Intelligence did, and that does not fit in proper service in the Royal Navy or SBS. Bond's Navy background would also make it hard to see him jumping from embassy to embassy in his prewar days which Fleming mentions (Kingston, Paris, New York and Moscow are all Bond's embassy jobs I believe).

    In modern day terms, the equivalent to the Naval Intelligence sort of jobs would be Defence Intelligence in an active warzone involving Britain (not the case right now, but could include Middle East/Yugoslavia) or probably straight back at MI6, just doing some more subversive work. John Pearson's biography tries to fit in all of this but just makes an awkward cutout where "people were angry" so Bond had to go to the RN and then Fleming comes back and picks him up for Naval Intelligence again.
  • CharmianBondCharmianBond Pett Bottom, Kent
    Posts: 558
    mtm wrote: »
    I've never liked the Choppings either; they just don't do anything for me. I know what you mean about naive.

    Same for me, it's not a style I'm particularly fond on but I recently went to Goldsboro Books where they have a few on display and seeing them in person I could finally appreciate the detail of the paintings and the composition of them, they are striking.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,691
    Don't mind the Chopping covers, and I love how the real Boothroyd's revolver is on FRWL. Favourite covers are:

    Great Pan
    Pan still life
    Penguin centenary
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