Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 31 Posts: 16,382
    And Scaramanga's flying car was real, was it?
    There's always some way in which the Craig films weren't right, isn't there.
  • Posts: 3,274
    mtm wrote: »
    And Scaramanga's flying car was real, was it?
    There's always some way in which the Craig films weren't right, isn't there.
    Is there? I don't know. I can find plenty of good things, and not so good things. But what I prefer is for any vehicle or gadget to be a prop I can potentially find at the Bond in Motion museum and not just be a rendering on a computer.
  • edited August 31 Posts: 1,340
    Monorailer wrote: »
    We had the wonderful submersible glider in No Time To Die. That definitely felt like Eon loosening up a little and allowing a welcome splash of the hyperreal in Bond's world again.

    It looked like a GI Joe plane. It seems fine to me but I also had no problems with the invisible car.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 31 Posts: 16,382
    Zekidk wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    And Scaramanga's flying car was real, was it?
    There's always some way in which the Craig films weren't right, isn't there.
    Is there? I don't know. I can find plenty of good things, and not so good things. But what I prefer is for any vehicle or gadget to be a prop I can potentially find at the Bond in Motion museum and not just be a rendering on a computer.

    That's cool, because I've literally seen the glider from NTTD in the Bond In Motion exhibition at Beaulieu.

    You can see it in this publicity photo above the car.

    DB5-in-Bond-in-Motion-No-1-1.jpg

    desktop-attraction_Bond-in-motion-NTTD-Gliderw870px_h475px-9-1.jpg

    ME190AA6_o.jpg

    That seems to satisfy the criteria pretty exactly.

    I think I've seen the model of Scaramaga's car at an exhibit too. Because it couldn't really fly either. But that's fine because it's old.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,206
  • Posts: 4,139
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Monorailer wrote: »
    submersible glider in No Time To Die.
    Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't that all CGI?

    Love watching videos like that. It’s so impressive what the VFX team can do on Bond and how it melds with the practical and location work (I’m saying this as some who’s struggled to make a convincing doughnut model in Blender). This one doesn’t show the Matera sequences interestingly. From what I understand most of the architecture in the background/landscape was VFX with the motorbike stunts all being done on location by a professional. So well done.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 31 Posts: 16,382
    007HallY wrote: »
    This one doesn’t show the Matera sequences interestingly.

    Yeah there were several effects houses working on the film: ILM, Framestore, DNEG and Cinesite at the least - as this is a DNEG reel I guess one of the others did Matera.
    The breakdown of the off road chase is really fascinating if you come across that- they replace a lot of the actual ground to make Scotland look more like Norway, some of the vehicles get replaced etc. - it really is amazing.

    https://www.artofvfx.com/no-time-to-die-charlie-noble-overall-vfx-supervisor-with-jonathan-fawkner-framestore-vfx-supervisor-and-joel-green-dneg-vfx-supervisor/
  • Posts: 3,274
    mtm wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    And Scaramanga's flying car was real, was it?
    There's always some way in which the Craig films weren't right, isn't there.
    Is there? I don't know. I can find plenty of good things, and not so good things. But what I prefer is for any vehicle or gadget to be a prop I can potentially find at the Bond in Motion museum and not just be a rendering on a computer.

    That's cool, because I've literally seen the glider from NTTD in the Bond In Motion exhibition at Beaulieu.
    That is actually very cool. Guess it was the model that was used when entering the cave on the island. Do you know if this was the exact model?
    007HallY wrote: »
    This one doesn’t show the Matera sequences interestingly. From what I understand most of the architecture in the background/landscape was VFX with the motorbike stunts all being done on location by a professional. So well done.
    There's an extended BTS here:


    Yes, the Matera scenes were very good put together. Intense, wonderfully framed. I would have loved for the chase to be a tad longer though.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 31 Posts: 16,382
    Zekidk wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    And Scaramanga's flying car was real, was it?
    There's always some way in which the Craig films weren't right, isn't there.
    Is there? I don't know. I can find plenty of good things, and not so good things. But what I prefer is for any vehicle or gadget to be a prop I can potentially find at the Bond in Motion museum and not just be a rendering on a computer.

    That's cool, because I've literally seen the glider from NTTD in the Bond In Motion exhibition at Beaulieu.
    That is actually very cool. Guess it was the model that was used when entering the cave on the island. Do you know if this was the exact model?

    They sit in it on the plane, the sub dock one may have been a different prop, I don't know.

    NoTimeToDie_CharlieNoble_ITW_11B.jpg

  • edited August 31 Posts: 4,139
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    This one doesn’t show the Matera sequences interestingly.

    Yeah there were several effects houses working on the film: ILM, Framestore, DNEG and Cinesite at the least - as this is a DNEG reel I guess one of the others did Matera.
    The breakdown of the off road chase is really fascinating if you come across that- they replace a lot of the actual ground to make Scotland look more like Norway, some of the vehicles get replaced etc. - it really is amazing.

    https://www.artofvfx.com/no-time-to-die-charlie-noble-overall-vfx-supervisor-with-jonathan-fawkner-framestore-vfx-supervisor-and-joel-green-dneg-vfx-supervisor/

    The amount of work and attention to detail is staggering, especially considering these are often shots we don’t fully realise are VFX. I’ve seen Online Editors and Flame Artists work on stuff, but this is a whole other level.

    It’s really cool! Like I said wish I could do even a bit of what these teams can.
  • Posts: 6,709
    As much as I dislike NTTD (after its marvelous first half hour), the production values are top notch all around. It looked lush, expensive, dreamy even. Those special effects are insanely good. Let's hope all of this is kept for the next installment.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    I prefer realistic effects than CGIs really, I think Casino Royale really hit the good effects, making it realistic but still spectacular, not OTT.

    NTTD was almost OTT in terms of action effects, almost like Marvel films already, beautiful looking but a bit unrealistic, at least in my view.
  • edited August 31 Posts: 4,139
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I prefer realistic effects than CGIs really, I think Casino Royale really hit the good effects, making it realistic but still spectacular, not OTT.

    NTTD was almost OTT in terms of action effects, almost like Marvel films already, beautiful looking but a bit unrealistic, at least in my view.

    CR has its share of VFX/CGI too. Here:



    I think it’s more a concept thing in terms of what they wanted from NTTD’s action sequences more than an issue of CGI. CR has some moments of complete nonsense too (the bit when Bond just casually catches the gun on the crane never looked very convincing to me). But I can’t fault the VFX work in either film. Again, great blending of practical and CGI. Bond doesn’t get enough credit for its recent VFX in my opinion (I think it’s better than what we tend to get in Marvel/DC films, although for a more relevant/fairer comparison I think it’s often better than Mission Impossible’s VFX despite how hyped up its stunts are).
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    I loved the gun-catching bit in CR.
  • Not really a fan of a new ridiculous gadget for Bond to use on snow to be honest. Always think that Bond should use gadgets creatively (not for intended purpose) or use his surroundings more than some cutting edge tech thing to blow away the villains.

    If we want a winter Bond scene again, then there are snowmobiles, and even we could get a car chase down a mountain.
  • Posts: 7,417
    I loved the gun-catching bit in CR.

    Me too! Very cool moment!
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited August 31 Posts: 3,152
    I loved the gun-catching bit in CR.
    Yeah, catching the gun and running through the plasterboard wall were great sight gags. Almost as funny as the umbrage from the Craig-haters who didn't seem to realise they were gags! Great stuff.
  • Posts: 1,859
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Bond-movies should try to be first movers when it comes to action setpieces.

    A parkour footchase that ends on top of a crane was original. A bikechase on the rooftop of a very large building was original. Fighting inside a haywire helicopter over a huge crowd was original. A car chase is not, a fight on top of a moving train is not and a big shoot-out is most certainly not. But action in the snow pretty much still belongs to Bond. We had skis, a cello case, a snowboard, snowscooters even a plane in the snow. Maybe it's time for Q-department to come up with something new, like:
    maxresdefault.jpg

    I don't need to see Bond on skis again unless there's an entirely new angle to it.

    Post merged
    It's not about how many or how few countries the story takes place in, it's the story.

    Mod edit : @CrabKey this is becoming a habit. It has been asked that members do no multi post like you had done. Just two minutes apart from the previous post.
    Please use the edit function. It's not that hard.

    I've not figured out how to use the "edit" function. How does it work?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    When you make a post there will appear a gear shaped symbol on the top right side of your post. When you click it give you the option to edit your post.
  • Posts: 1,985
    @delfloria - I have actually used the edit function many times. However, I was not aware that if I made a new post right after a previous post, back to back posts might prove confusing, annoying, or be perceived as spam, especially if short.

    A fair question to ask is when does a series play out? While I have always been a Bond fan, I haven't been a passionate Bond fan for a long time. I do not want the series to end, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if it did. In some cases absence makes the heart grow fonder; in others absence can lead to caring no longer. I don't feel these lengthy gaps between films are beneficial. I don't need to hear how each film continues to make record returns. That's someone else's measure of success, not mine. Will I see Bond 26? Hopefully I'll still be around when it comes out. Will it be an entertaining film? I would expect so. But I am not one who worships at the shrine of BB, EON, and P&W. They have made their share of bad decisions.

    As for this particular gap, I suspect it primarily has to do with the title of this thread: Where Does Bond Go After Craig? Will they get there? No doubt. But what are we likely to see that we haven't seen a dozen times before? That is the rub. How do you freshen up a ski chase, or Bond falling out of a plane, or a ski lift sequence, or on a train, or underwater, or at a gambling table, of getting cross ways with M.

    In those early Bond days, which remain my favorites, the films felt fresh until YOLT. That should have been a much better film than it was. Bad decision making. OHMSS turned things around. DAF was the nail in the Connery coffin. LALD jumped started the series again and then petered out by the next film. TLD we see a brief resurgence and then nothing especially memorable until CR. (Not a PB fan.) With Craig we got a great Bond who was much better than the material he was given. Though I am not knocked out by SF, that should have been his exit.

    I truly hope Bond 26 can reinvigorate the series as CR did. I hope we get more than just a young guy doing everything his predecessors did that leaves us with the feeling of been there, done that. If that's the case, then let's leave it as Craig did.


  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    To me the James Bond character in book and film is a tremendous setup for storytelling and movies especially.

    And in book and film (and comic and game and non-fiction and any other form) I don't see evidence it will end any time soon.

  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    To me the James Bond character in book and film is a tremendous setup for storytelling and movies especially.

    And in book and film (and comic and game and non-fiction and any other form) I don't see evidence it will end any time soon.

    Yes, I agree. We are lucky with him, and the people in charge.
  • Posts: 1,985
    Until NTTD they'd done everything but kill Bond. Now they've done that. What next? A flashback to a late nineties maternity ward. "We'll call him, James." Flash forward. Parents die. Flash forward again. Brash young man becomes spy. Was that CR or the latest Kingsman film? After 25 films reinvigorating a series is no easy task. Again, I have no doubts we'll see an entertaining film. But keeping it fresh and original in a way that doesn't feel like a film that reminds of an earlier one or a scene we've seen several times previously will be the challenge. I wouldn't be surprised if a new creative is brought on board.
  • edited September 1 Posts: 3,274
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Until NTTD they'd done everything but kill Bond. Now they've done that. What next? A flashback to a late nineties maternity ward. "We'll call him, James." Flash forward. Parents die.
    Something like that could work for the next PTS. It opens in France with young James saying goodbye to his parents heading out on a climbing trip. They die, James is informed at the cabin or whereever. He goes outside and looks up at the mountain, Closeup of his eyes which is then transitioned into the eyes of adult James in combat gear wearing a skimask, looking up at a similar mountain, heading out on mission as 007. After the setpiece and right before the main titles he takes off his mask and we see the face of the new Bond for the very first time.

    But for it to work they somehow have to play with the theme of being an orphan later on.

  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,135
    For my money, three films in the series have either saved it, or rejuvenated it. They are TSWLM. GE and CR.
    EON can't really do a lot with CR as it is an origin story and has only been made in the last 20 years. But when I think back to TSWLM and GE, I think big, exciting, adventures. A bit over the top, some very memorable big scale set pieces and fun.
    I think this is the style of film that possibly EON will be looking to make. Something that gets Bond back in the cinema was a bang. That lets audiences know MI is big on stunts, so what. This is JAMES BOND!
    In order to do that, they don't have to re-create the character. They just need to look at what's worked before and update it slightly for a more modern audience.
    I know it's easy for me to type that, and obviously harder to actually achieve, but surely it's the kind of starting point they could be looking at.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    Yeah, I don't expect Bond 26 to be a stripped back adventure. Bond died in NTTD, so he would be making a big entrance and statement in Bond 26.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    For me, it's just simple, a complete reboot, maybe a bit akin to Goldeneye, no explanation of how he died, just have Bond in a proper normal mission without any references to the Craig Era (hence, isolating his Bond tenure), it happened many times, why Tracy was not mentioned in Diamonds Are Forever? Why Caroline Bliss and Robert Brown didn't returned in Goldeneye?

    It's like starting all over again, but without the literal introduction, it would just continue the Bond adventure.

    I think this is what the Producers (Barbara, in particular) are talking about, they can do whatever they want to do with Bond now, and it's up to them.
  • A new Bond in a new World. Introduction is crucial. The story, stunts, and scenes can go anywhere, even fantastical. The actor shapes Bond.
  • Posts: 1,340
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Until NTTD they'd done everything but kill Bond. Now they've done that. What next? A flashback to a late nineties maternity ward. "We'll call him, James." Flash forward. Parents die. Flash forward again. Brash young man becomes spy. Was that CR or the latest Kingsman film? After 25 films reinvigorating a series is no easy task. Again, I have no doubts we'll see an entertaining film. But keeping it fresh and original in a way that doesn't feel like a film that reminds of an earlier one or a scene we've seen several times previously will be the challenge. I wouldn't be surprised if a new creative is brought on board.

    An origin story like Spymaker. Eton, a war, women, etc.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    I think CR showcased Craig's physicality and gravitas, and I don't think either of those things have gone out of favour with the general public. I think whichever actor is picked, they will have both those qualities, and we'll get a similar showcase for the new actor to show off those qualities - some brutal fights, a big athletic stunt, and at least one big dramatic scene.

    I think it is possible they will bring in 007's supporting players slowly, perhaps one or two introductions per film: M in the first one, Felix in the second, Q and Moneypenny in the third. It would be a way of keeping interest going, similar to the way Craig's films left Moneypenny and Q until the third outing.
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