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"I have a brudder". The role of family in Bond from twins, sisters and step-brothers and more!
thedove
hiding in the Greek underworld
This thread may go nowhere or it may go somewhere.
I have been thinking of all the times family plays a part in the series or is a theme in the Bond films.
The Masterson sisters, were the first ones that I was struck by. I realized that they are fleshed out characters and both have different traits. Jill operates with a more grey moral compass than her sister Tilly. While both are beautiful, Jill seems more comfortable using her sex to get things. Tilly more thoughtful and icy on the surface.
We have the knife throwing twins from OP. Mischa and Grischa they really don't have any difference within the film. Although they do seem to know where one is and where the other is.
We have Electra King and her dysfunctional family dynamics. A daughter who identifies more with her Mother and the bloodline from that side of the family than from her Dad's. She orchestrates his death.
Tracy and Marc-Ange Draco and their broken relationship that is healed with help from Bond. There is an interesting family dynamic here and it plays out in a very natural way with a story arc that adds to the tragic end of that film.
Melina Havelock out to avenge her parent's murders. Evoking her Greek history and traditions.
Silva calling M "Mommy" in the film, referencing how she has become a mom to Bond?
Mr. White and his daughter Madeleine. How she was present when her mom was killed. How she struggled with this for her life.
Course in the last film, we had Bond getting a family. Some fans didn't quite take to it.
On top of the screen versions of family, we also have the "Bond Family". The dedicated crew who brought the adventures to life for us all. It was a name bestowed to the crew who created the series and who brought a new adventure to life every couple of years. Recently those in the family have shrunk in numbers as the Directors bring in their own people to fill out the creative team. However we could call Purvis and Wade members of the Bond family as they have contributed to many of the more recent films.
So lets have a discussion about family and how it is portrayed in the films. Where have you seen this played out? Which films touch on family and do they do it in a realistic or believable way? What about the peeling back of Bond's family in the Craig films? Has this family history added to the Bond character?
I have been thinking of all the times family plays a part in the series or is a theme in the Bond films.
The Masterson sisters, were the first ones that I was struck by. I realized that they are fleshed out characters and both have different traits. Jill operates with a more grey moral compass than her sister Tilly. While both are beautiful, Jill seems more comfortable using her sex to get things. Tilly more thoughtful and icy on the surface.
We have the knife throwing twins from OP. Mischa and Grischa they really don't have any difference within the film. Although they do seem to know where one is and where the other is.
We have Electra King and her dysfunctional family dynamics. A daughter who identifies more with her Mother and the bloodline from that side of the family than from her Dad's. She orchestrates his death.
Tracy and Marc-Ange Draco and their broken relationship that is healed with help from Bond. There is an interesting family dynamic here and it plays out in a very natural way with a story arc that adds to the tragic end of that film.
Melina Havelock out to avenge her parent's murders. Evoking her Greek history and traditions.
Silva calling M "Mommy" in the film, referencing how she has become a mom to Bond?
Mr. White and his daughter Madeleine. How she was present when her mom was killed. How she struggled with this for her life.
Course in the last film, we had Bond getting a family. Some fans didn't quite take to it.
On top of the screen versions of family, we also have the "Bond Family". The dedicated crew who brought the adventures to life for us all. It was a name bestowed to the crew who created the series and who brought a new adventure to life every couple of years. Recently those in the family have shrunk in numbers as the Directors bring in their own people to fill out the creative team. However we could call Purvis and Wade members of the Bond family as they have contributed to many of the more recent films.
So lets have a discussion about family and how it is portrayed in the films. Where have you seen this played out? Which films touch on family and do they do it in a realistic or believable way? What about the peeling back of Bond's family in the Craig films? Has this family history added to the Bond character?
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Comments
Isn't that as he's shot and we get a quick cut of the photo? Seems more like it was to show the reality that Bond has had to kill someone (yes, he's corrupt, but he's a father and husband too). It's a great touch.
Are her and Melina the only female leads who are motivated by family to do what they do? I mean Electra but she was the antagonist.
There's also Domino Derval in Thunderball who is motivated to help Bond and act against Largo after she finds out he had her brother murdered. She even ends up killing Largo and exacting revenge.
I think TB did a better job of showing Domino's emotion. Was that on the actress or the way the part was written?
Yes, I think Thunderball was the better of the two films as well. I think it was a mixture of both the actress's talents and the quality of the writing.
I suppose in neither do we really get a sense of their sibling relationship or how close they are (considering they don't share any screen time and unlike the novel we don't get any sort of insight into it through the character's thoughts).
I think TB has a far better reveal than NSNA. In TB it's on an empty beach with only Bond and Domino, and the editing does a fantastic job of amping up the emotion. NSNA instead opts for Bond to tell Domino during a dance number with everyone watching (which is kinda interesting in theory, but a bit off when we see it in practice).
I kinda agree with this.....
Really? That’s interesting. I mean, I’m glad this wasn’t innit, but it shows how long the writers have been attempting to mine Bond’s private life…
@SIS_HQ , do you have a copy of this draft? Or do you know what draft number this was (often it’s marked on the script and/or on title page). I’d like to hunt this down and give a read.
Thanks in advance
It's was once tackled in CommanderBond forum before, in their archives discussions (will find the link and post it here), it's in several sources (even in the trivia of IMDB of TWINE), although I've forgotten if it's in the original drafts by Dana Stevens, because it's been years since I've made some research into some rejected original ideas and drafts for Bond, and one of them is this.
I haven't seen the original drafts of TWINE, as I have no idea at the time where to find them.
I hope there’s a draft out there, or even an outline. Once again, glad it didn’t happen, but I’m curious to read it.
I’ll also snoop around and see if I can find anything.
Thanks for this info @SIS_HQ , I didn’t know this was a concept they floated. Very interesting!
You're welcome 😊
Where do you think the family plot point or theme was used most effectively?
I have to think the Father/Daughter relationship with Tracy and Marc-Ange. The story has you believing that they are blood related even though they don't share a ton of scenes together. By the end of the film I can see how he cares for her. The wedding becomes more emotional because of the family dynamic.
I agree, it's really the most effective, but again, what could we expect? OHMSS is also about family and belonging, so that aspect needs to convincing, and they've done it very right.....
Going by the Fleming Bond canon (which of course trumps all others where there is any doubt) Bond had no siblings. As you say, the YOLT Times Obituary confirms this. Where Pearson's Authorised Biography differs from Fleming I do not consider it canon. In John Gardner's Never Send Flowers it confirms that Bond is an only child, rightly building on Fleming's YOLT as an authority. I'm happy enough to go along with that as the official version and not the Authorised Biography and James Bond Jnr novel and cartoon series.
I don't think the filmmakers will present Bond after his 007 tenure anytime soon if ever. And a family when he's an agent is a non-starter.
I do agree though, it's not something I'd want to see again. But I'm not expecting them to repeat it.
James Bond as a family man doesn't work unless you make it very exotic.
Q Branch probably secretly developed a vaccine against all known types of STDs, to make sure that their agents are always ready to do their job.
It depends, if the woman is worthy of that story, if to say, he's going to have a family with someone like Tracy, I would buy it, I don't buy it with Madeleine, that's the thing, I think that angle is interesting, but it's botched in NTTD.
I could see it being something like Benson's Blast From The Past with Bond, continuing his job while supporting his family, financially, through incognito, and being distant from his family overseas, and keeping them secret so he could keep them safe (his family living in other country where no one could track them, while Bond continue on living the life).
Blast is a bit of an oddity by contrast. From what I remember a chunk of the story had to play catch up with the reader about Bond/his son’s current relationship, only for James Suzuki to be killed (off-page as it were) as the story begins. Bond has maybe one or two brief moments of sadness over this (which are unconvincing) before we get a plot twist that makes the Brofield subplot in SP seem minor. It was pretty poorly written too. Like bad fan fiction almost (the final line of the story is particularly strange if anyone wants to have a read - it’s been burned into my mind from my only reading of it. I’m sure there’s some intended subtext to it, but it’s weird). The whole thing has a strange creative abruptness to it: instead of expanding on Fleming’s ideas - Bond having a child he didn’t know about until later in life, seeing him come to terms with that - it opts instead to tell the reader through hasty exposition about this son in Bond’s life, ultimately never showing any interactions between the two. I’m not quite sure why Benson wrote it at all (it seems to have been featured in Playboy for some reason). I genuinely think it’s the worst thing a Bond continuation author has ever written, and by quite a wide margin.
I do think Benson is the worst writer to have been an official 007 novelist by some margin: he just isn't a fiction writer and his prose is appalling. I was on holiday recently and swapped from a Benson to a Horowitz, and the difference in quality of the words you're reading is like night and day.
I didn't know that. Interesting. I know Playboy cut out a chunk for word count purposes too.
It doesn't comment on his age at all from what I remember, no. The son's meant to be in his 20s though.
I'm not Horowitz's biggest fan, but yes, he's a much better writer.
Benson's a bit of an odd one. Along with Kingsley Amis I actually think he's the most knowledgable continuation writer about Fleming's books, and arguably about Bond in general. He has a pretty good knack for putting Bond in interesting settings - having him climb Kangchenjunga, putting him in a bullfighting arena/the villain using that to try and kill him. We even got Bond infiltrating a film studio, and a sperm clinic. Arguably he has more creativity for that than Horowitz does.
But I agree, the issue is he's a pretty poor writer (not only in terms of his prose, which isn't great, but things like pace, setting up the right tone for scenes etc). There's a lot in his books which should be great, but they come off as silly. Blast From The Past is his worst for me by a long way though.
Ending (and execution) aside, Blast from the Past isn't exactly horrible in any of its concepts. Irma Bunt not being dead is a bit unoriginal but could make for an interesting story.
Particularly in terms of the family aspect I think that what Benson provides makes sense. It just doesn't make sense for a Bond still active in the Secret Service to take a parental role. I would suspect while it doesn't make for an interesting film, that Bond would probably pay for a high-quality of schooling at a strict and "Calvinistic" school. After all, that's the sort of upbringing he got after the death of his parents.
No Time to Die's portrayal of Bond's fatherhood is alright. There's a lot in that film that doesn't work. Bond being a father may play a part in that, but nothing is really wrong with Craig playing Bond as a father except other circumstances in the film.
Slightly unrelated but I never know how Kissy in either Pearson or Benson's iterations knew to call her child James. She was under the impression his name was Taro Todoroki, and at no point does Bond say his real name.