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Rank the Fleming Bond Novels-Readability

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  • LFSLFS
    edited May 2020 Posts: 40
    Here are my separated ranking of the novels and short story collections (not included is the novel "The Spy Who Loved Me", which is very good, but can't be compared to the others):

    1. From Russia with Love
    2. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    3. Casino Royale
    4. Dr. No
    5. Moonraker
    6. You Only Live Twice
    7. Live and Let Die
    8. Thunderball
    9. Goldfinger
    10. Diamonds Are Forever
    11. The Man with the Golden Gun


    Short story collections:

    1. For Your Eyes Only (best story: "The Hildebrand Rarity")
    2. Octopussy and The Living Daylights (best story: "The Living Daylights")
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,306
    There's just something about MR. Also OHMSS.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,306
    What is amazing is that a relatively weak novel (DAF, TSWLM) is often followed by a masterpiece (FRWL, OHMSS).
  • PussyNoMorePussyNoMore
    Posts: 520
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I wouldn't call TSWLM relatively weak.

    Too true.
    It's interesting how many aficionados have reassessed their appreciation of this work.
    Reading it as a boy, PussyNoMore was wofuly unimpressed and actually felt cheated. It didn't follow the formula and many, including a high proportion of critics, dismissed it for that.
    Indeed, for 53 years, it remained one of two Bond books that Pussy didn't re-read (the other being DAF).
    Last year, more to validate his original opinion than anything else, he was drawn back to it and is so pleased he made the effort.
    It is, of course, a very explicit book in comparison to the others but it was surprising how fresh it felt. Fleming captured the '60s beautifully through the eyes of Viv which was a complete step change for him. Not only did he manage to see things from a young woman's perspective, he also managed to engage with her generation whilst his other works had, and have, more of a '50s feel to them.
    More than this, it has a strong sense of jeopardy and manages to morph from a coming of age story into a tense noir thriller with, as always, Fleming creating a great sense of place.
    PussyNoMore would definitely recommend anybody who read it when they were initially in their teens or younger to re-read it. The SWLM is certainly a cult classic
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,479
    Reading these novels for the first time last year was such a treat. Not sure when my first re-readings will happen, but here is my current ranking of the novels:

    1. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    2. Dr. No
    3. Moonraker
    4. You Only Live Twice
    5. The Spy Who Loved Me
    6. Live and Let Die
    7. From Russia with Love
    8. Casino Royale
    9. Thunderball
    10. Goldfinger
    11. The Man with the Golden Gun
    12. Diamonds Are Forever

    Short Story Ranking:
    1. For Your Eyes Only
    2. Risico
    3. The Hildebrand Rarity
    4. The Living Daylights
    5. Quantum of Solace
    6. From a View to a Kill
    7. Octopussy
    8. The Property of a Lady
    9. 007 in New York
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    1. OHMSS - the best novel and the most readable.

    2. Dr. No - the first novel I ever read. Easy read, not hard work at all.

    3. TMWTGG - gripped from the very first page. Very readable, and it is one of my favourite novels.

    4. TSWLM - not one of Fleming's best, but very readable, due to the way its written.

    5. GF - lengthy novel but very easy to absorb. Moves along at a very fast pace.

    6. LALD - another lengthy novel that moves along at a fast pace.

    7. DAF - not highly thought of on here but I like it.

    8. Moonraker - solid novel, let down by not being set in an exotic location.

    9. YOLT - hard work for most part, until Bond gets to the Garden of Death

    10. FRWL - highly acclaimed by many, yet I find it a difficult read, particularly as Bond doesn't appear until half way through the book

    11. CR - one of the books I find quite tough to get through. Unstructured for most part, too many chapters, and the torture sequence is a little too grim and depressing for repeated reading. Fleming was finding his way with this one.

    12. TB - the weakest of the lot, and I find quite a chore to get through. Then again, I'm not a big fan of the movie(s) either. It still has its decent moments though. No Fleming book is poor.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    I fully support all the praise for TSWLM! The first part (of three in total) may feel a bit out of place in a spy genre, but the rest of the book I find absolutely thrilling and very well written. It is a very engaging story, and one really feel invested in the story and the fate of the girl.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    I'm reading the books for the third or fourth time. DAF is difficult to read through and...
    TB! The chapter with Moneypenny is maybe even my favourite Moneypenny/office moment from Fleming. But the middle of the book is boring to me. Usually I read one novel per month...TB takes much longer...
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    goldenswissroyale wrote: »
    I'm reading the books for the third or fourth time. DAF is difficult to read through and...
    TB! The chapter with Moneypenny is maybe even my favourite Moneypenny/office moment from Fleming. But the middle of the book is boring to me. Usually I read one novel per month...TB takes much longer...

    Yes, I have always found TB the weakest.
  • IGotABrudderIGotABrudder UK
    Posts: 631
    Agree with PussyNoMore, they are all very readable. Even my personal least favourite (LALD) is a cracking read.

    My no. 1 is DAF (mainly for the character of Tiffany Case) but my no. 2 is YOLT and that’s because of its very slight touch of the supernatural.

    They’re all great though. Other authors can be very up and down but IMO Fleming hit the ground running in CR and kept a solid level of consistency right up to his death.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    @jetsetwilly good, that I'm not the only one. There are some almost endless descriptions
    in this book. But I enjoy the parts with Domino.

    @IGotABrudder Tiffany Case is really well written and one of the best Bond girls...but this is one of only a few little highlights...I like Wint and Kidd and the beginning and ending in the desert. Fascinating how he describes the scorpion.
    YOLT is one of the novels which I liked more the second/third time: I was a bit disappointed the first time, that almost nothing happens in the first part to bring the story forward. At my last read, I was already attuned to the amount of dialogues and enjoyed much more than I expected.
  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,918
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Bond himself has an internal dialogue that keeps reminding us how this mission isn't up to his standards, and that the villains are not worthy of his talent

    That was pointless self-sabotage on Fleming's part, since the Spangled Mob is actually just as competent as SMERSH. But Fleming couldn't resist mocking the theatricality of the mob, which he considered vulgar and unprofessional, and its Italian roots, which makes Bond deliver bigoted comments about Italian Americans. Fleming's love-hate relationship with America meant he was unable to really give the Spangled Mob its due. His idea of true evil was European; for him evil Americans were always uncouth thugs, no matter how effective they were.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    I read through Fleming's entire lot back in 18/19 as a way to bridge the gap between films but forgot to post a ranking with all the delays. Now that NTTD is finally being released I thought now would be the second best time to do so.

    Not much controversial in my list other than DAF, which also happens to be the only novel or short story that beats the film imo. MR might seem too low.

    Anyways here's my ranking (not necessarily based on readability but overall preference/enjoyment):

    1. From Russia With Love - classic, love how it takes its time and shows Soviet angle
    2. Diamonds Are Forever - so much fun, great little moments, action and writing
    3. OHMSS - a really great read but not exactly much fun
    4. Dr. No - great location/atmosphere, set-up and Dr. No himself is pure Bond villain
    5. Thunderball - once again great locations, characters and underwater stuff
    6. Casino Royale - really good story and characters. Just not as good as the rest
    7. Live And Let Die - too slow and racist at the start. Ending is enjoyable, however.
    8. You Only Live Twice - weird/different, but fascinating to read
    9. Goldfinger - decent but didn't like the secretary stuff or finale
    10. Moonraker - proto Bond story, dull location, action and characters
    11. The Spy Who Loved Me - interesting experiment but only the finale is good
    12. TMWTGG - doesn't feel complete, Scaramanga reads like a cartoon character.
    13. OP + TLD collection*
    14. FYEO collection**

    Short story ranking:

    *FAVTAK
    *FYEO
    **OP
    **TLD
    **TPOAL
    *RISICO
    *QoS
    *THR
    **007 in NY
  • IGotABrudderIGotABrudder UK
    edited September 2021 Posts: 631
    BondAficionado wrote: »
    I read through Fleming's entire lot back in 18/19 as a way to bridge the gap between films but forgot to post a ranking with all the delays. Now that NTTD is finally being released I thought now would be the second best time to do so.

    Not much controversial in my list other than DAF, which also happens to be the only novel or short story that beats the film imo. MR might seem too low.

    Anyways here's my ranking (not necessarily based on readability but overall preference/enjoyment):

    1. From Russia With Love - classic, love how it takes its time and shows Soviet angle
    2. Diamonds Are Forever - so much fun, great little moments, action and writing
    3. OHMSS - a really great read but not exactly much fun
    4. Dr. No - great location/atmosphere, set-up and Dr. No himself is pure Bond villain
    5. Thunderball - once again great locations, characters and underwater stuff
    6. Casino Royale - really good story and characters. Just not as good as the rest
    7. Live And Let Die - too slow and racist at the start. Ending is enjoyable, however.
    8. You Only Live Twice - weird/different, but fascinating to read
    9. Goldfinger - decent but didn't like the secretary stuff or finale
    10. Moonraker - proto Bond story, dull location, action and characters
    11. The Spy Who Loved Me - interesting experiment but only the finale is good
    12. TMWTGG - doesn't feel complete, Scaramanga reads like a cartoon character.
    13. OP + TLD collection*
    14. FYEO collection**

    Short story ranking:

    *FAVTAK
    *FYEO
    **OP
    **TLD
    **TPOAL
    *RISICO
    *QoS
    *THR
    **007 in NY

    It’s good to see some love for Diamonds :)

    I think it’s a great novel and it has a massive amount of stuff that has not yet made it to film. Unless NTTD will have a classic American steam locomotive scene? Who knows?

    From Russia With Love is probably the best novel. It oozes 1960s spy scandal atmosphere.

    My third favourite is You Only Live Twice. There’s an air of the supernatural about it which I really like
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    IGotABrudder wrote: »

    It’s good to see some love for Diamonds :)

    I think it’s a great novel and it has a massive amount of stuff that has not yet made it to film. Unless NTTD will have a classic American steam locomotive scene? Who knows?

    From Russia With Love is probably the best novel. It oozes 1960s spy scandal atmosphere.

    My third favourite is You Only Live Twice. There’s an air of the supernatural about it which I really like

    Glad to see someone else can appreciate it as well. True, there's a decent amount of unused material in DAF. Maybe that's why I enjoyed it as much as I did. In fact one of the reasons LALD isn't higher on my list is because of how it has been butchered by multiple films over the years.
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,633
    Well ! It is shocking ! Positively shocking ! that this exercise even exists, but let's please keep this straight right off -- If you are reading these for the first time, read them in the order of Publication ! OF COURRRRRRSE !

    Now. To the exercise. As directed -- and SO many of you have flaunted -- I say, I say FLAUNTED the rules ! -- I am NOT going to include the Short Stories. As I understand the exercise, they stay OUT.

    Additionally, this is not about which book is BEST, or Better than those ranked below. It is about EASY TO READ !

    With that being said...

    DN

    GF

    FR,WL

    TB/OHMSS/YOLT
    After all that Obsessive-Compulsive ranting set forth above - BUT YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT ! - here I go breakin' all the rules (sounds like a song). I am treating these as a long single book in terms of listing, because, for this trilogy, they should be read in the PROPER ORDER ! That which goes on between Bond and Blofeld is a tremendous storyline. They really messed. each. other. up ! If you do not like the way I am listing it, then just pretend I put OHMSS after TB, and YOLT after OHMSS

    MR

    CR

    DAF

    LALD

    TMWTGG

    TSWLM

    Once again -- this is not about which is BEST -- but about Easy-to-Read.


  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    edited September 2021 Posts: 6,844
    I'm curious, @Since62, as to why you ranked FRWL and YOLT (lumped in with TB and OHMSS) the third and fourth easiest to read of the series and DAF and LALD the third and fourth least easiest to read. I find LALD and DAF two of the most direct of Fleming's stories in terms of being straightforward, pulpy adventure with plenty of action to propel the reader along. Conversely, Bond's role in FRWL doesn't even begin until a third of the way in (as great as that novel is) and the first half of YOLT is really just one long and rather curiously paced travelogue before we get to the story proper (again, as great as that novel is). All four of these, by the way, are probably top 5 or at least top 6 Flemings for me.
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,633
    I find FRWL a very enjoyable book with great structure and easy to read. I like how it sets up and places the reader in the mechanism, so to speak, of what SMERSH is doing. Similarly, I very much enjoy YOLT for the reasons you mention. In fact, I think that after the tutorial on Japan it works nicely for having the story turn out to be Bond vs. Blofeld again. For DAF to rank lower for me is due to the fact that -- while I enjoy Tiffany Case and W&K -- I find the American gangsters to be unworthy villains for a Bond book. Even the villains in TSWLM, for me, though also American thugs, are more interesting. LALD I'll address next. It appears I don't like it much when Fleming's Bond visits the US ! That is not the reason, though. I enjoyed Fleming's experiment with TSWLM, and appreciate that he was pushing himself into something very different. It's too bad he didn't go ahead and make it a NON-Bond book. He was friendly with a few American writers, as I recall, and it would have been interesting were he to collaborate with one or two on TSWLM as a non-Bond combination of Diary with a Psycho-thriller. I never saw any mention of it, but I wonder whether Fleming was influenced by Hitchcock's Psycho - seems quite feasible ! I appreciate that Fleming enjoyed NY, and I enjoyed his non-Bond The Diamond Smugglers, but I found American gangsters beneath a Bond book. That is for DAF and TSWLM. As for why I don't have TSWLM ranked higher is simply an observation on the easy-to-read point of the exercise. For LALD it is not the American gangster angle that has me finding the book is not as easy and enjoyable a book to read. Perhaps it is this: on the one hand, Fleming seems to recognize some things, but not others, about racism. I realize this book was published in 1954, and Fleming's English snobbery lead to a number of nasty comments about all sorts of people across all the books. Fleming is quite mixed on women, too. But - he was grown up, well-educated by life and war and not just schools, and he could have done better.
    As for the books I rank even higher than the Bond-vs-Blofeld Trilogy, they're just easy-to-read thrillers that move along well.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    edited September 2021 Posts: 6,844
    Thanks for the elaboration, @Since62! That's certainly a very interesting theory about Fleming potentially having been influenced by Hitchcock's Psycho in writing TSWLM. You might not be far off the mark there!
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,633
    Thanks. To belabor the obvious: small scale story for just a few characters; motor court style motel; location off in the boonies; woman emotionally and physically getting away from something traumatic; whackadoo psycho killer/killers...Coincidentally, there is another Bond connection, though it is one which did not exist at the time Fleming wrote TSWLM, and here it is: John Gavin plays a major part in Hitchcock's Psycho.
    The very same John Gavin was under consideration to portray Bond before Sean Connery came back for DAF. (John Gavin became US Ambassador to Mexico. Did he have any hand in helping the producers when they made LTK in Mexico ? I know not. Perhaps someone else might have some information on that.) I think Fleming might have found interesting the psychological aspects of the killer in Psycho, and please recall that his killers in TSWLM are not just guns-for-hire. They're psychos themselves, one of them particularly so. Of course, this was not the first time Fleming gave some background to his mentally-deranged-killer-character(s) -- ref. Red Grant in FR,WL, W&K in DAF, which was the prior occasion on which Bond was in the US in a full novel and Bond went to New York in a short story but it post-dated TSWLM -- but, again, small hotel in the boonies, lady getting away, etc. Surely this is not the first occasion on which anyone considered the Psycho-TSWLM common elements ? Perhaps in a book on Fleming ? An interview ?
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 2022 Posts: 3,791
    Easiest Read:
    1. Moonraker
    2. Thunderball
    3. Goldfinger
    4. You Only Live Twice
    5. The Man With The Golden Gun

    A Bit Heavy Read (it's slow at times):
    6. Casino Royale
    7. Dr. No
    8. From Russia With Love
    9. On Her Majesty's Secret Service

    The Heaviest (I'm full on it):
    10. Live And Let Die
    11. The Spy Who Loved Me
    12. Diamonds Are Forever
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    edited November 27 Posts: 815
    I found them all very readable and I think I'd have a hard time ranking which one is easier to read than the other. Instead (especially since I meant to rank them all after I finished the last novel and short story collection months ago but forgot), I'm going to rank each Fleming novel and short story collection by how much I enjoyed them. So:

    1. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    2. Dr. No
    3. From Russia With Love
    4. You Only Live Twice
    5. Moonraker
    6. Casino Royale
    7. Thunderball
    8. Goldfinger
    9. The Spy Who Loved Me
    10. For Your Eyes Only
    11. Octopussy and The Living Daylights
    12. Diamonds Are Forever
    13. Live And Let Die
    14. The Man With The Golden Gun


    Note that I still enjoyed the absolute hell out of TMWTGG, I just wish there were more to it.

    I just really love these books. I've come to love them more than the films, to be honest. I'm looking forward to re-reading them, this time in order of publication, probably next year. Fleming rules.

  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited November 27 Posts: 2,084
    For me, I think Casino Royale & Moonraker are the ones I re-read more easily.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 4,177
    I think the great thing about Fleming’s books is how readable they are. Even the weaker ones for me are easy to get through and have that ‘airport novel’ pace/feel to them (albeit ones that are very unique and well written).

    MR’s probably the easiest to read, followed by FRWL and DN. The least so are probably the ones where the plot contrivances become a bit too noticeable (ie. The third part of GF or the bulk of TMWTGG, but even those are interesting).
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited November 27 Posts: 2,084
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think the great thing about Fleming’s books is how readable they are. Even the weaker ones for me are easy to get through and have that ‘airport novel’ pace/feel to them (albeit ones that are very unique and well written).

    MR’s probably the easiest to read, followed by FRWL and DN. The least so are probably the ones where the plot contrivances become a bit too noticeable (ie. The third part of GF or the bulk of TMWTGG, but even those are interesting).

    Yeah, all very good books with lots of things to enjoy. For example, if I want to enjoy Bond's daily life, maybe something like DAF & YOLT. I think Bond even gets a haircut in DAF right before an action takes place with the Spangled Mob or something like that...and probably the first action that takes place in that book.
    Also, I think while FRWL is a good one and my favorite, it needs your time a lot...compared to Moonraker that one can just breeze through. It's funny that Moonraker isn't as action-packed like say Live And Let Die, but it's a more breezier read...or maybe because we can't wait to see when the charade between Bond and Drax would end.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 4,177
    SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think the great thing about Fleming’s books is how readable they are. Even the weaker ones for me are easy to get through and have that ‘airport novel’ pace/feel to them (albeit ones that are very unique and well written).

    MR’s probably the easiest to read, followed by FRWL and DN. The least so are probably the ones where the plot contrivances become a bit too noticeable (ie. The third part of GF or the bulk of TMWTGG, but even those are interesting).

    Yeah, all very good books with lots of things to enjoy. For example, if I want to enjoy Bond's daily life, maybe something like DAF & YOLT. I think Bond even gets a haircut in DAF right before an action takes place with the Spangled Mob or something like that...and probably the first action that takes place in that book.
    Also, I think while FRWL is a good one and my favorite, it needs your time a lot...compared to Moonraker that one can just breeze through. It's funny that Moonraker isn't as action-packed like say Live And Let Die, but it's a more breezier read...or maybe because we can't wait to see when the charade between Bond and Drax would end.

    I think MR and FRWL benefit from a bit of dramatic irony to their plots. We know after the first quarter of FRWL, for instance, that Bond is about to walk into a honey trap and how exactly it's meant to play out. It gives the rest of the book a tension in terms of finding out how Bond is going to get out of it. Even Drax in MR is established as being dodgy and potentially having ulterior motives even just by cheating in a game of bridge. By the time we learn that something has occurred at his rocket site we pretty much know that Drax is the villain and as you said we can't wait to see that charade between him and Bond end.

    LALD and DAF don't quite have that same elegance to their plots. It's not a bad thing, and I enjoy both, but it gives those books a less refined pace.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,149
    Started both a screen as well as a page Bondathon.

    As for the reading part, I started with DAF and that took me a while since I couldn't really get into it.

    Then I took up FRWL, which I loved from beginning to end.

    Now I'm on OHMSS, and so far it's been a great reread.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,791
    1. Goldfinger
    2. Thunderball
    3. Moonraker
    4. Casino Royale
    5. The Living Daylights
    6. You Only Live Twice
    7. Dr. No
    8. For Your Eyes Only
    9. Diamonds Are Forever
    10. You Only Live Twice
    11. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    12. From Russia With Love
    13. Live And Let Die
    14. The Man With The Golden Gun
    15. The Spy Who Loved Me
    16. Octopussy

    1. For Your Eyes Only
    2. From A View To A Kill
    3. The Hildebrand Rarity
    4. Risico
    5. Quantum Of Solace
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 1,374
    1. Casino Royale
    2. OHMSS
    3. Thunderball
    4. Dr NO
    5. FRWL
    6. Moonraker
    7. LALD
    8. TMWTGG
    9. TSWLM
    10. YOLT
    11.GF
    12. DAF
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,084
    007HallY wrote: »
    SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think the great thing about Fleming’s books is how readable they are. Even the weaker ones for me are easy to get through and have that ‘airport novel’ pace/feel to them (albeit ones that are very unique and well written).

    MR’s probably the easiest to read, followed by FRWL and DN. The least so are probably the ones where the plot contrivances become a bit too noticeable (ie. The third part of GF or the bulk of TMWTGG, but even those are interesting).

    Yeah, all very good books with lots of things to enjoy. For example, if I want to enjoy Bond's daily life, maybe something like DAF & YOLT. I think Bond even gets a haircut in DAF right before an action takes place with the Spangled Mob or something like that...and probably the first action that takes place in that book.
    Also, I think while FRWL is a good one and my favorite, it needs your time a lot...compared to Moonraker that one can just breeze through. It's funny that Moonraker isn't as action-packed like say Live And Let Die, but it's a more breezier read...or maybe because we can't wait to see when the charade between Bond and Drax would end.

    I think MR and FRWL benefit from a bit of dramatic irony to their plots. We know after the first quarter of FRWL, for instance, that Bond is about to walk into a honey trap and how exactly it's meant to play out. It gives the rest of the book a tension in terms of finding out how Bond is going to get out of it. Even Drax in MR is established as being dodgy and potentially having ulterior motives even just by cheating in a game of bridge. By the time we learn that something has occurred at his rocket site we pretty much know that Drax is the villain and as you said we can't wait to see that charade between him and Bond end.

    LALD and DAF don't quite have that same elegance to their plots. It's not a bad thing, and I enjoy both, but it gives those books a less refined pace.

    Yeah, well said.
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