Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • edited December 2024 Posts: 1,492
    -OHMSS is not that realistic and down to earth movie. Blofeld's plan is a bit far-fetched.
    -Moore's Bond was tougher than Brosnan's.



    BAIN123 wrote: »
    - George is a top 3 Bond
    - Pierce's best Bond performance was GoldenEye
    - Daniel Craig gave the best debut Bond performance of all
    - Roger's films have dated worse than Sean's
    - Dalton lacked warmth and presence

    Even the very 80's NSNA is closer to a Daniel Craig movie than Moore's ones
  • Posts: 11,212
    -OHMSS is not that realistic and down to earth movie. Blofeld's plan is a bit far-fetched.
    -Moore's Bond was tougher than Brosnan's.



    BAIN123 wrote: »
    - George is a top 3 Bond
    - Pierce's best Bond performance was GoldenEye
    - Daniel Craig gave the best debut Bond performance of all
    - Roger's films have dated worse than Sean's
    - Dalton lacked warmth and presence

    Even the very 80's NSNA is closer to a Daniel Craig movie than Moore's ones

    Bond almost always had far fetched plots right back to the Fleming novels. That was the appeal.
  • BAIN123 wrote: »
    - George is a top 3 Bond
    - Pierce's best Bond performance was GoldenEye
    - Daniel Craig gave the best debut Bond performance of all
    - Roger's films have dated worse than Sean's
    - Dalton lacked warmth and presence

    Curious about this one. How would say that Dalton lacks warmth in his portrayal? I'd say he probably sells his romance with Kara more than any Bond-Bond girl except Bond and Vesper.
  • edited December 2024 Posts: 11,212
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    - George is a top 3 Bond
    - Pierce's best Bond performance was GoldenEye
    - Daniel Craig gave the best debut Bond performance of all
    - Roger's films have dated worse than Sean's
    - Dalton lacked warmth and presence

    Curious about this one. How would say that Dalton lacks warmth in his portrayal? I'd say he probably sells his romance with Kara more than any Bond-Bond girl except Bond and Vesper.

    He has some good scenes in TLD (holding hands while watching the plane explode having escaped it) but I find at times he's quite awkward in his demeanour. The scene when he's smiling at her on the horse carriage for example.

    It's more apparent in LTK to be honest. I get that it's meant to show a more ruthless character but there are times when Tim is meant to be happy and romantic and I just don't think he sells it. He can't seem to laugh or smile naturally in that film. Even looking at Desmond in the Q scene there's one shot when Dalts is scowling at Des for no real reason when Q says "nobody can use the gun but you". I think...sometimes...Dalton was guilty of trying too hard.

    Craig (and Lazenby for that matter) seem more at ease in terms of their body language.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,495
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    - George is a top 3 Bond
    - Pierce's best Bond performance was GoldenEye
    - Daniel Craig gave the best debut Bond performance of all
    - Roger's films have dated worse than Sean's
    - Dalton lacked warmth and presence

    Curious about this one. How would say that Dalton lacks warmth in his portrayal? I'd say he probably sells his romance with Kara more than any Bond-Bond girl except Bond and Vesper.

    He has some good scenes in TLD (holding hands while watching the plane explode having escaped it) but I find at times he's quite awkward in his demeanour. The scene when he's smiling at her on the horse carriage for example.

    I'm intrigued to know what issue you have with him there?

    BTW, I totally agree in LTK the scene between him and Pam feels extremely awkward and shockingly bad considering he is such a thespian.
  • Posts: 1,492
    Dalton has a goofy smile.

    The less he smiles the better.
  • edited December 2024 Posts: 11,212
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    - George is a top 3 Bond
    - Pierce's best Bond performance was GoldenEye
    - Daniel Craig gave the best debut Bond performance of all
    - Roger's films have dated worse than Sean's
    - Dalton lacked warmth and presence

    Curious about this one. How would say that Dalton lacks warmth in his portrayal? I'd say he probably sells his romance with Kara more than any Bond-Bond girl except Bond and Vesper.

    He has some good scenes in TLD (holding hands while watching the plane explode having escaped it) but I find at times he's quite awkward in his demeanour. The scene when he's smiling at her on the horse carriage for example.

    I'm intrigued to know what issue you have with him there?

    BTW, I totally agree in LTK the scene between him and Pam feels extremely awkward and shockingly bad considering he is such a thespian.

    There's a moment at 0.52 when you can sense him holding the smile.


    Compared say to Laz smiling at Rigg in the car in OHMSS I don't think it's as effective.
  • Posts: 11,212
    Dalton has a goofy smile.

    The less he smiles the better.

    I kind of agree. In fact I think he's great in the likes of Framed and Hot Fuzz where they work his OTT laugh and villainous smile into the plots.

    Passions Way is a good example where I've seen him give an awkward, uncomfortable looking smile when he's meant to be romantic.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,495
    He does grin alot, but it's never bothered me in TLD. I find the chemistry with Kara very sweet.
  • edited December 2024 Posts: 11,212
    He does grin alot, but it's never bothered me in TLD. I find the chemistry with Kara very sweet.

    I generally prefer him in TLD. More charming and romantic. But I don't think he can really compare to Daniel Craig's ultra-confident performance or magnetic screen presence in CR. For me that's one of the top 5 Bond performances.
  • Posts: 11,212
    Brosnan gets worse in his later films rather than better.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,096
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Brosnan gets worse in his later films rather than better.
    Performance often mirrors the quality of the material. In this case, mostly what's missing in quality.
  • edited December 2024 Posts: 11,212
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Brosnan gets worse in his later films rather than better.
    Performance often mirrors the quality of the material. In this case, mostly what's missing in quality.

    That's a fair point. GE gives him the best overall material and I suspect Martin Campbell knew how to rein Brozza in more.

    He's more still in GE compared to his later films. In fact, in the audio commentary, Martin Campbell compliments both Brosnan and Judi Dench on their stillness and goes on to say that British actors don't wave their hands around like American actors do all the time. Funny seeing as this is what Brosnan does more in TWINE and DAD.

    I think direction is actually more important than the quality of the material. A great actor like Daniel Craig can give a questionable performance if they are directed badly - as we saw in the prison scene in No Time to Die.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,694
    I'm still a bit baffled as to why people think he's bad in the prison bit.
  • Posts: 4,351
    I wouldn't call Craig in the prison scene bad, but he's giving a very specific interpretation of the material (it's less restrained, let's say, compared to some of his previous Bond scenes, and that feeds into the idea that his Bond is a bit older, more talkative and even relaxed/humorous after his years in retirement). Brosnan in TWINE is much more cringey at points for me.
  • Posts: 11,212
    Craig's normally a restrained actor who keeps his physical movements to a minimum.

    In the prison scene he's suddenly waving his hands about in an OTT way. I get that the intent was to show the poison was on his hands, but surely they could have done this another way. Maybe just show the close-up of him trying to shake Madeline's hand before he goes in the cell.

    Also his angry facial expression when Blofeld starts gloating him is laughably unconvincing, and Bond suddenly loses it and tries to strangle Blofeld? Common Bond, you knew going in he would try and get under your skin.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,259
    So this is less of a performance issue and more of a character writing issue.
  • edited December 2024 Posts: 11,212
    So this is less of a performance issue and more of a character writing issue.

    I think it's both as I don't like the performances in the scenes I mentioned either.

    CR had some ropey writing towards the end of the film but Craig and Eva Green's performances made up for it.

    It's a case of how a director directs and/or guides the actors.
  • edited December 2024 Posts: 4,351
    To be fair I don't think any director can make an actor give a good or bad performance. It's just not something they can fully control (or at least micromanage). At the end of the day it's about the actor's capabilities, how they interpret the material, and to some extent how effectively direction is given (but even then telling an actor how to say a line or how to move is generally a major no-no. Ultimately the performance is the actors'). It's why there are examples of ropey performances in otherwise great films by great directors. It's probably why Campbell there was praising Dench and Brosnan's stillness (which I agree, is a film where Brosnan gives a better performance than TWINE). I'd say Craig interprets the material fine, but it ultimately comes down to Bond flying into a rage for a not very effective reason.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited December 2024 Posts: 3,181
    Hadn't Bond himself slipped out of character during the first part of the Blofeld prison scene in NTTD? The fake buttering-up and somewhat fawning tone was a front he'd put on to try to wrongfoot Blofeld so he'd let something slip, no? I think that's maybe why Craig's acting in that particular scene seems so unlike his usual portrayal of Bond.
  • Posts: 2,044
    As much as I have never cared for Moore's Bond, he seemed to inhabit the character in a way Brosnan never did.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2024 Posts: 16,694
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Craig's normally a restrained actor who keeps his physical movements to a minimum.

    In the prison scene he's suddenly waving his hands about in an OTT way. I get that the intent was to show the poison was on his hands, but surely they could have done this another way. Maybe just show the close-up of him trying to shake Madeline's hand before he goes in the cell.

    Also his angry facial expression when Blofeld starts gloating him is laughably unconvincing, and Bond suddenly loses it and tries to strangle Blofeld? Common Bond, you knew going in he would try and get under your skin.

    I still don't get it to be honest, I'm not seeing a bad performance here.
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be fair I don't think any director can make an actor give a good or bad performance. It's just not something they can fully control (or at least micromanage). At the end of the day it's about the actor's capabilities, how they interpret the material, and to some extent how effectively direction is given (but even then telling an actor how to say a line or how to move is generally a major no-no. Ultimately the performance is the actors').

    Yeah I think that's fair. I do think it's quite interesting to see how Roger's Bond changes under his three directors: there's definitely three different shades to his Bond across his films I'd say. The bastard; the suave charmer; and the more human lover.
  • mtm wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Craig's normally a restrained actor who keeps his physical movements to a minimum.

    In the prison scene he's suddenly waving his hands about in an OTT way. I get that the intent was to show the poison was on his hands, but surely they could have done this another way. Maybe just show the close-up of him trying to shake Madeline's hand before he goes in the cell.

    Also his angry facial expression when Blofeld starts gloating him is laughably unconvincing, and Bond suddenly loses it and tries to strangle Blofeld? Common Bond, you knew going in he would try and get under your skin.

    I still don't get it to be honest, I'm not seeing a bad performance here.

    I think it's more an oddly different performance than a bad one. It feels like Craig has become Benoit Blanc. While I love him in Knives Out, it does feel a bit out of character from the guy of the past four films.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,518
    CrabKey wrote: »
    As much as I have never cared for Moore's Bond, he seemed to inhabit the character in a way Brosnan never did.

    I think whatever shortcomings Moore had, he was always “in the moment”, so his reactions were authentic and sincere and truthful to his depiction of James Bond.It was very natural…

    I never got that with Brosnan. I always felt he was calculated. I’d bet in twenty takes of the same scene, Brosnan executed each in an identical fashion.
  • Posts: 11,212
    peter wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    As much as I have never cared for Moore's Bond, he seemed to inhabit the character in a way Brosnan never did.

    I think whatever shortcomings Moore had, he was always “in the moment”, so his reactions were authentic and sincere and truthful to his depiction of James Bond.It was very natural…

    I never got that with Brosnan. I always felt he was calculated. I’d bet in twenty takes of the same scene, Brosnan executed each in an identical fashion.

    Roger was generally very good with the more low-key reactions and moments.

    I like Brosnan but I get what you mean at times. A good example is the scene on the ship with M in DAD where his performance feels mannered and not particularly natural.

    Tbh I did feel Dalton could be like that too sometimes, particularly early in LTK where you get the feeling he's thought about every facial expression prior to the camera rolling. I've never been keen on the scene where he finds Della dead for this reason. I've seen him in other films give very similar facial expressions.
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