Would you rather have a return of novelizations for future film adventures OR no novelizations?

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  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited April 18 Posts: 4,960
    thedove wrote: »
    Yeah that is a great point about novelizations. It is for a different use or different reason that someone may pick one up. I do not see a "big name" writing them. Likely the continuation author or maybe someone else writes it. Unlikely to be a best seller. I remember really liking the LTK novelization as it added more details to the aftermath of Leiter being bitten. Course Gardner had to jump through hoops because it had already happened in the novels. I can't remember if he had Sanchez leaving a note?
    thedove wrote: »
    Course Gardner had to jump through hoops because it had already happened in the novels. I can't remember if he had Sanchez leaving a note?

    I seem to remember he did, but said something along the lines of '. . . and it bought back a distant memory", or something. So he kind of had him receiving the same note twice, to make up for the inconsistency.

    Edit - I've just checked my copy, and the 'something that ate him' note is mentioned, but as part of Bond's memory of the Live and Let Die adventure only. But finding Leiter after a shark attack does have "a sense of Deja-vu". So in Garner's world*, there were two Leiter shark attacks.
    Because Bond's Felix was part of the literary Bond world, Felix already had his false leg and hook. The shark had mostly a vegan meal, according to the LTK novelisation.

    Fair play to Gardner though, for sticking to his continuity on that.

    *Chortle.
    echo wrote: »
    I vote against novelizations. The whole concept of promoting the movies this way just seems dated.

    I've never thought of novelisations as promotional tools. I think they just add an interesting extra aspect to the whole Bond experience. Most of the Dalton and Brosnan movies had novelisations, and I think they were all the better for it. I can't admit to reading them all, but they were definitely appreciated by me.
    We got a nice 'movie tie-in' paperback of Casino Royale, as well.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I vote against novelizations. The whole concept of promoting the movies this way just seems dated.

    Nowadays everything is streaming within weeks, and don't get me started on pirating.

    That's my feeling about it: novelisation is a very dated concept.

    I would say yes, but I understand why people say no. As I've said before, since DC's movies didn't have any, maybe his whole era (Bloodstone included) should be one BIG novelization. That, and with the many writing problems behind the scenes, I don't think any of them, (outside of SF) EON would want people to see previous things from previous drafts.

    Roald Dahl could have easily written a YOLT novelization, and Bruce Feirstein with Everything or Nothing. These books could have added more character development to help make the mission(s) feel more unique. So yes, I would generally support Bond novelizations in the future of new and old adventures. I'm also biased because I am a big writer in my spare time. I tend to enjoy both people's and characters viewpoints of a James Bond adventure.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,992
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I don't see why they shouldn't return. At best they help flesh out parts of the film or make the whole thing seem like a Fleming adventure. At worst they're useful for time-passing read (like any mediocre continuation novel). The author might be the only loser: having to compromise their creativity for a difficult and annoying process.

    But as a fan I say full steam ahead with the novelisations.
    QBranch wrote: »
    Would definitely love to see the return of the adaptation novel and comparing them to their respective films. More Bond to analyze and discuss is a good thing. I think in the TND novel it was Robinson who was replaced with Tanner or something like that.

    Also, the comic book tie-in. Note how much of them are different to the film - GoldenEye having altered gadgetry: button in the gear stick opens a console revealing the champagne (evaluation toast) and some great dialogue which should've made it into the film (Bond: "How long did you say the fuse was?" Q: "Shorter than mine."). Not to mention the image on Natalya's computer screen of a nude Boris.

    Yes, bring them back. Some of the Bond videogames could have gotten one.
    @MaxCasino I've seen you mention novelizing the games before, and this IMO is the kind of outside-the-box thinking that would revitalize the series. Isn't it time all these ideas from the various mediums come together? I want the comics adapted into films, the games to get toy merch tie-ins. I want the Thunderball boat toy with bow-mounted machine guns onscreen. I want to see a Bond film with Dynamite's M, Nagai and Ponsonby all in one room working together.
  • edited April 18 Posts: 5,049
    thedove wrote: »
    Course Gardner had to jump through hoops because it had already happened in the novels. I can't remember if he had Sanchez leaving a note?

    I seem to remember he did, but said something along the lines of '. . . and it bought back a distant memory", or something. So he kind of had him receiving the same note twice, to make up for the inconsistency.

    Edit - I've just checked my copy, and the 'something that ate him' note is mentioned, but as part of Bond's memory of the Live and Let Die adventure only. But finding Leiter after a shark attack does have "a sense of Deja-vu". So in Garner's world*, there were two Leiter shark attacks.
    Because Bond's Felix was part of the literary Bond world, Felix already had his false leg and hook. The shark had mostly a vegan meal, according to the LTK novelisation.

    Fair play to Gardner though, for sticking to his continuity on that.

    *Chortle.

    I never knew that! What a strange decision. Kind of takes away a bit of the impact if only Leiter's fake limbs are eaten, surely?

    Anyway, bit of a side thought: instead of novelisations what would people say instead to graphic novels which use parts of the films as a basis for their stories (so it'd have illustrations of the incumbent Bond actor/secondary characters and essentially be set in that universe. Doesn't have to be an adaptation of the film, but something that ties into it - ie. a mini adventure which shows what Bond was doing just before the events of the film etc. I know it was something being hinted at in another thread, albeit more to do with direct adaptations). Maybe that'd be a better way of doing something similar to tie in the new movies to another medium while maintaining them as separate things? It may well bring in more audiences than novelisations could which often deviate quite radically from the films. From what I understand as well Bond in graphic novels is a bit hit or miss and has always been a bit niche anyway when detached from the film series (although I very much enjoyed Solstice, and that's the only one I've read).
  • Posts: 1,826
    Sometimes it's funny to see how the writer deals with messy scripts.
  • edited April 18 Posts: 1,119
    echo wrote: »
    I never knew that! What a strange decision. Kind of takes away a bit of the impact if only Leiter's fake limbs are eaten, surely?

    Yes. In the book, he has the shark biting off the false limbs, and only gnawing on the stumps a bit. And quite a few times, Bond feels 'a sense of Deja Vue' about finding Leiter. Even the chapter's titled Lightning Sometimes Strikes Twice. Gardner clearly wanted the book to sit alongside the Fleming books, and as I say, I commend him for trying. Even if it does come off a bit clunky. Writers often have more integrity for continuity than film-makers. It's certainly true of the Bond books.
    Funnily enough, Milton Crest is in Gardner's LTK, without a mention that Bond had met him before, as far as I can see.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 18 Posts: 17,803
    Writers often have more integrity for continuity than film-makers. It's certainly true of the Bond books.


    The books where Bond drifts through history without ageing (even in Fleming's books!), becomes a Captain, then is a Commander again, Microglobe One and Transworld Consortium come and go, is sometimes a widower and sometimes isn't, hooks up with Flicka and never thinks of her again etc.? :D
    And of course as you mention:
    Funnily enough, Milton Crest is in Gardner's LTK, without a mention that Bond had met him before, as far as I can see.


    :P
  • edited April 18 Posts: 1,119
    At least the literary Bond doesn't die and come back to life in the same story!

    Joking aside, you know when you read a Bond continuation novel, if it's set in Fleming's Bond's world, (like Colonel Sun, Trigger Mortis etc), or is a modern, more experimental version, (Carte Blanche, Solo, His Majesty). The screen Bond is a lot more open to interpretation regarding continuity, as I've found out on here many times.
  • edited April 18 Posts: 5,049
    Die and come back in the same story? Don't think that's ever happened! He's died and not come back, or thought to be dead but not died (or indeed faked it) ;)

    Anyway, sorry was just joking as well. I get what you mean. Although I think the Gardner and Benson books from what I've read of them have less strict continuity and are more 'floating timelines'/not incomparable to the '62-'89 films (from what I understand it's implied Bond ages a bit in the Gardners but this is sort of dropped in the Benson ones, and of course the world moves on drastically from the 50s. Despite this several characters from Fleming return and for all intents and purposes it's meant to be Fleming's Bond).
  • Posts: 1,119
    Benson seemed like he wrote the books to accompany Brozza's films. That's how I interpreted them anyway. I think they were the books that felt most like a hybrid of movie and Fleming Bond, but he did put quite a few Fleming nods in. I think they were fun reads.
    For this reader, the most successful continuation novels are set in Fleming's world. But I think I'm digressing - we're supposed to be talking about novelisations.
    Which can be very hit and miss, when it comes to Bond. Wood's 70's books are a success, Benson's Brozza ones, less so. To be fair, I don't think he had much time on those.
  • Posts: 15,515
    007HallY wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    Course Gardner had to jump through hoops because it had already happened in the novels. I can't remember if he had Sanchez leaving a note?

    I seem to remember he did, but said something along the lines of '. . . and it bought back a distant memory", or something. So he kind of had him receiving the same note twice, to make up for the inconsistency.

    Edit - I've just checked my copy, and the 'something that ate him' note is mentioned, but as part of Bond's memory of the Live and Let Die adventure only. But finding Leiter after a shark attack does have "a sense of Deja-vu". So in Garner's world*, there were two Leiter shark attacks.
    Because Bond's Felix was part of the literary Bond world, Felix already had his false leg and hook. The shark had mostly a vegan meal, according to the LTK novelisation.

    Fair play to Gardner though, for sticking to his continuity on that.

    *Chortle.

    I never knew that! What a strange decision. Kind of takes away a bit of the impact if only Leiter's fake limbs are eaten, surely?

    Anyway, bit of a side thought: instead of novelisations what would people say instead to graphic novels which use parts of the films as a basis for their stories (so it'd have illustrations of the incumbent Bond actor/secondary characters and essentially be set in that universe. Doesn't have to be an adaptation of the film, but something that ties into it - ie. a mini adventure which shows what Bond was doing just before the events of the film etc. I know it was something being hinted at in another thread, albeit more to do with direct adaptations). Maybe that'd be a better way of doing something similar to tie in the new movies to another medium while maintaining them as separate things? It may well bring in more audiences than novelisations could which often deviate quite radically from the films. From what I understand as well Bond in graphic novels is a bit hit or miss and has always been a bit niche anyway when detached from the film series (although I very much enjoyed Solstice, and that's the only one I've read).

    I've been advocating for a series of graphic novels set between QOS and SF for ages. To bridge the gap in the Craig era.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited April 19 Posts: 4,960
    QBranch wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I don't see why they shouldn't return. At best they help flesh out parts of the film or make the whole thing seem like a Fleming adventure. At worst they're useful for time-passing read (like any mediocre continuation novel). The author might be the only loser: having to compromise their creativity for a difficult and annoying process.

    But as a fan I say full steam ahead with the novelisations.
    QBranch wrote: »
    Would definitely love to see the return of the adaptation novel and comparing them to their respective films. More Bond to analyze and discuss is a good thing. I think in the TND novel it was Robinson who was replaced with Tanner or something like that.

    Also, the comic book tie-in. Note how much of them are different to the film - GoldenEye having altered gadgetry: button in the gear stick opens a console revealing the champagne (evaluation toast) and some great dialogue which should've made it into the film (Bond: "How long did you say the fuse was?" Q: "Shorter than mine."). Not to mention the image on Natalya's computer screen of a nude Boris.

    Yes, bring them back. Some of the Bond videogames could have gotten one.
    @MaxCasino I've seen you mention novelizing the games before, and this IMO is the kind of outside-the-box thinking that would revitalize the series. Isn't it time all these ideas from the various mediums come together? I want the comics adapted into films, the games to get toy merch tie-ins. I want the Thunderball boat toy with bow-mounted machine guns onscreen. I want to see a Bond film with Dynamite's M, Nagai and Ponsonby all in one room working together.

    To paraphrase Cubby Broccoli himself: "When in doubt, go back to Fleming." James Bond started with books. Writing new books with different time periods and characters would push things forwards, with different viewpoints. Using former video games as books, could bring more readers to Bond. James Bond was written by Ian Fleming with movies in mind. Amazon should bring back novelizations, as it just feels right. I feel that Indiana Jones and the Dial of Density should have had a novelization, as it apparently is the last Indy movie. Star Wars has novelizations for all 11 live-action movies. Disney and Lucasfilm will probably continue this media viewpoint. It shows how much Indy means to them. That, and the lack of true marketing for Dial of Density. So, bearing screenplay problems like in the DC era, James Bond should have some screen adventures put on the book page. As for bridging the gap between QOS and SF, @Ludovico I don't think that Dynamite Comics will be the ones to do it, for more than one reason. As for different characters from different eras, I would like that to happen again. We got it in Goldeneye Rogue Agent (2004 video game). It had mixed success. I would like an original book of Bond characters fighting each other. Just try it in a book first.
    Benson seemed like he wrote the books to accompany Brozza's films. That's how I interpreted them anyway. I think they were the books that felt most like a hybrid of movie and Fleming Bond, but he did put quite a few Fleming nods in. I think they were fun reads.
    For this reader, the most successful continuation novels are set in Fleming's world. But I think I'm digressing - we're supposed to be talking about novelisations.
    Which can be very hit and miss, when it comes to Bond. Wood's 70's books are a success, Benson's Brozza ones, less so. To be fair, I don't think he had much time on those.

    Benson has talked in many interviews about writing his books like modern day (for their time) Bond screen adventures. He is arguably the one Bond continuation author who was openly told by IFP to keep cinema Bond in mind when writing. I think IFP was somewhat secretly yet obviously was hoping that EON was going to film them. I feel like PB's novelizations fit in with continuations of Fleming's floating timeline of Bond (CR-DAD). Also, his TND novelization is one of the best Bond continuation novels, (IMO). So, Benson was stuck in that creative influence, for better or worse. This is why he should have written 3 more novelizations (if he had a chance). The video games Everything or Nothing and Goldeneye Rogue Agent. Plus, the cancelled Jinx spinoff. He has often been criticized for writing like Bond fan fiction. These 3 stories would have been perfect for him. If IFP got the rights from EON and Electronic Arts. I say that one or two Bond adventures do deserve to be put on the novelization page again. Just don't be afraid to switch up the author(s) on occasion. Just keep Bond writing fresh, in different styles, while following the main Bond formula.
  • Posts: 5,049
    Ludovico wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    Course Gardner had to jump through hoops because it had already happened in the novels. I can't remember if he had Sanchez leaving a note?

    I seem to remember he did, but said something along the lines of '. . . and it bought back a distant memory", or something. So he kind of had him receiving the same note twice, to make up for the inconsistency.

    Edit - I've just checked my copy, and the 'something that ate him' note is mentioned, but as part of Bond's memory of the Live and Let Die adventure only. But finding Leiter after a shark attack does have "a sense of Deja-vu". So in Garner's world*, there were two Leiter shark attacks.
    Because Bond's Felix was part of the literary Bond world, Felix already had his false leg and hook. The shark had mostly a vegan meal, according to the LTK novelisation.

    Fair play to Gardner though, for sticking to his continuity on that.

    *Chortle.

    I never knew that! What a strange decision. Kind of takes away a bit of the impact if only Leiter's fake limbs are eaten, surely?

    Anyway, bit of a side thought: instead of novelisations what would people say instead to graphic novels which use parts of the films as a basis for their stories (so it'd have illustrations of the incumbent Bond actor/secondary characters and essentially be set in that universe. Doesn't have to be an adaptation of the film, but something that ties into it - ie. a mini adventure which shows what Bond was doing just before the events of the film etc. I know it was something being hinted at in another thread, albeit more to do with direct adaptations). Maybe that'd be a better way of doing something similar to tie in the new movies to another medium while maintaining them as separate things? It may well bring in more audiences than novelisations could which often deviate quite radically from the films. From what I understand as well Bond in graphic novels is a bit hit or miss and has always been a bit niche anyway when detached from the film series (although I very much enjoyed Solstice, and that's the only one I've read).

    I've been advocating for a series of graphic novels set between QOS and SF for ages. To bridge the gap in the Craig era.

    I'm sure there's an audience for it. It'd be interesting seeing comics that link a bit more with the films.
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I don't see why they shouldn't return. At best they help flesh out parts of the film or make the whole thing seem like a Fleming adventure. At worst they're useful for time-passing read (like any mediocre continuation novel). The author might be the only loser: having to compromise their creativity for a difficult and annoying process.

    But as a fan I say full steam ahead with the novelisations.
    QBranch wrote: »
    Would definitely love to see the return of the adaptation novel and comparing them to their respective films. More Bond to analyze and discuss is a good thing. I think in the TND novel it was Robinson who was replaced with Tanner or something like that.

    Also, the comic book tie-in. Note how much of them are different to the film - GoldenEye having altered gadgetry: button in the gear stick opens a console revealing the champagne (evaluation toast) and some great dialogue which should've made it into the film (Bond: "How long did you say the fuse was?" Q: "Shorter than mine."). Not to mention the image on Natalya's computer screen of a nude Boris.

    Yes, bring them back. Some of the Bond videogames could have gotten one.
    @MaxCasino I've seen you mention novelizing the games before, and this IMO is the kind of outside-the-box thinking that would revitalize the series. Isn't it time all these ideas from the various mediums come together? I want the comics adapted into films, the games to get toy merch tie-ins. I want the Thunderball boat toy with bow-mounted machine guns onscreen. I want to see a Bond film with Dynamite's M, Nagai and Ponsonby all in one room working together.

    To paraphrase Cubby Broccoli himself: "When in doubt, go back to Fleming." James Bond started with books. Writing new books with different time periods and characters would push things forwards, with different viewpoints. Using former video games as books, could bring more readers to Bond. James Bond was written by Ian Fleming with movies in mind. Amazon should bring back novelizations, as it just feels right. I feel that Indiana Jones and the Dial of Density should have had a novelization, as it apparently is the last Indy movie. Star Wars has novelizations for all 11 live-action movies. Disney and Lucasfilm will probably continue this media viewpoint. It shows how much Indy means to them. That, and the lack of true marketing for Dial of Density. So, bearing screenplay problems like in the DC era, James Bond should have some screen adventures put on the book page. As for bridging the gap between QOS and SF, @Ludovico I don't think that Dynamite Comics will be the ones to do it, for more than one reason. As for different characters from different eras, I would like that to happen again. We got it in Goldeneye Rogue Agent (2004 video game). It had mixed success. I would like an original book of Bond characters fighting each other. Just try it in a book first.
    Benson seemed like he wrote the books to accompany Brozza's films. That's how I interpreted them anyway. I think they were the books that felt most like a hybrid of movie and Fleming Bond, but he did put quite a few Fleming nods in. I think they were fun reads.
    For this reader, the most successful continuation novels are set in Fleming's world. But I think I'm digressing - we're supposed to be talking about novelisations.
    Which can be very hit and miss, when it comes to Bond. Wood's 70's books are a success, Benson's Brozza ones, less so. To be fair, I don't think he had much time on those.

    Benson has talked in many interviews about writing his books like modern day (for their time) Bond screen adventures. He is arguably the one Bond continuation author who was openly told by IFP to keep cinema Bond in mind when writing. I think IFP was somewhat secretly yet obviously was hoping that EON was going to film them. I feel like PB's novelizations fit in with continuations of Fleming's floating timeline of Bond (CR-DAD). Also, his TND novelization is one of the best Bond continuation novels, (IMO). So, Benson was stuck in that creative influence, for better or worse. This is why he should have written 3 more novelizations (if he had a chance). The video games Everything or Nothing and Goldeneye Rogue Agent. Plus, the cancelled Jinx spinoff. He has often been criticized for writing like Bond fan fiction. These 3 stories would have been perfect for him. If IFP got the rights from EON and Electronic Arts. I say that one or two Bond adventures do deserve to be put on the novelization page again. Just don't be afraid to switch up the author(s) on occasion. Just keep Bond writing fresh, in different styles, while following the main Bond formula.

    I do need to read Benson's novelisations as I've heard good things. But his Bond novels can be pretty ropey for me, which is a shame because he's very knowledgable about the books. I actually think Blast From the Past is by far the worst continuation Bond story ever written and I'm actually shocked it was allowed to be released.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,960
    The best thing about TND is Benson’s novelization. Great character development for all the characters, particularly Elliot Carver.

    As for Blast from the Past, it was originally a Playboy short story, with 1/3 of the material cut out. Thankfully, the full version is in The Union Trilogy book. It could make a good jumping point for a Irma Bunt in a movie. There’s a lot to learn from the continuation novels. Amazon should realize this. So, I’m sticking to my opinion on future Bond novelizations.
  • edited 12:22am Posts: 5,049
    I genuinely didn’t realise it’d been published in an edited form. I’ve only read it in the big Union Trilogy book, and I thought it was terribly written personally (that ending especially - so strange). Don’t mind the concept I suppose (ok, not exactly my idea of a good Bond story, and the idea of Bond knowing his child is unlikely going from YOLT, but I can take the story on its own merits). I understand there are oddities in literary Bond but it’s a strange read.

    Will happily give the novelisations a go if I ever get the chance.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,326
    I've collected Bond film novelizations since the Moore films and Christopher Wood's two. Have hardcovers versions of all Wood, Gardner, and Benson.

    Not for great profit, to me for a select audience they're a nice addition threaded through Bond history. And a lost opportunity for the Craig films. Below are more Sean Longmore concepts.

    4883a69f05627d4df0df4c3b2204448e56e13e11.pnj
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,803
    007HallY wrote: »
    I genuinely didn’t realise it’d been published in an edited form. I’ve only read it in the big Union Trilogy book, and I thought it was terribly written personally (that ending especially - so strange). Don’t mind the concept I suppose (ok, not exactly my idea of a good Bond story, and the idea of Bond knowing his child is unlikely going from YOLT, but I can take the story on its own merits). I understand there are oddities in literary Bond but it’s a strange read.

    Will happily give the novelisations a go if I ever get the chance.

    I’ve never read that short story but I agree on his merits as a writer, he’s just a really bad one and can’t handle prose. I even tried rereading Facts of Death a couple of years ago but gave up and skipped to Trigger Mortis, and I’m afraid the leap in quality was pretty shocking when compared side by side. I’ve even been giving that Canadian short story anthology a go and most (maybe not all) of the writers there are streets ahead even.
    I think I tried TND once and he was just writing out the stage directions from the script for the action sequences, something like “Bond hopped the motorbike over several boats across the river”- maybe he was up against time but it seemed very poor stuff to me.
  • edited 9:30am Posts: 5,049
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I genuinely didn’t realise it’d been published in an edited form. I’ve only read it in the big Union Trilogy book, and I thought it was terribly written personally (that ending especially - so strange). Don’t mind the concept I suppose (ok, not exactly my idea of a good Bond story, and the idea of Bond knowing his child is unlikely going from YOLT, but I can take the story on its own merits). I understand there are oddities in literary Bond but it’s a strange read.

    Will happily give the novelisations a go if I ever get the chance.

    I’ve never read that short story but I agree on his merits as a writer, he’s just a really bad one and can’t handle prose. I even tried rereading Facts of Death a couple of years ago but gave up and skipped to Trigger Mortis, and I’m afraid the leap in quality was pretty shocking when compared side by side. I’ve even been giving that Canadian short story anthology a go and most (maybe not all) of the writers there are streets ahead even.
    I think I tried TND once and he was just writing out the stage directions from the script for the action sequences, something like “Bond hopped the motorbike over several boats across the river”- maybe he was up against time but it seemed very poor stuff to me.

    I wouldn’t say Horowitz has the most exciting writing style, but agreed he’s definitely ahead of Benson (this is where the continuation authors differ from Fleming for me. Fleming had his issues with plotting and even some mad ideas that perhaps didn’t always make sense, but had something very captivating about his prose - specific descriptions of characters, the places Bond goes to and experiences etc. It gives these books an authenticity. Even Amis didn’t quite have that flair).

    The stage direction-y writing is something I’ve noticed with Benson in general, especially when he’s writing very elaborate action scenes. BFTP has it. Anyway, it’s a very odd short story. I wouldn’t say it’s a pleasant experience getting through it because of the writing, but the fact that it’s so bad at points and has such weird plot leaps and moments kinda makes it interesting in a sort of fan fiction way.
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