Quantum of Nothing?

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  • Posts: 11,425
    I agree with the original post, QoS is unfairly slated. It's a good little fast-paced Bond movie. Not a classic, but when was the last one of those any way?
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I must confess, Quantum haven't done much to capture my imagination so far. They certainly aren't a patch on SPECTRE, I don't care what people say about them being more "modern" or "believable", Bond villains NEED to be imposing, threatening and somewhat larger than life. Thats the reason SPECTRE were cool, they had a presence and a memorability. Each SPECTRE agent (Dr No, Klebb, Largo) was a little bit over-the-top. Greene didn't even look threatening.

    However it does seem a bit of a shame that the organisation isn't going to be in SF. Why go to all that trouble of setting up a threat and not following it through? Then again they may appear in future films like they did in the 60s.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,259
    Getafix wrote:
    I agree with the original post, QoS is unfairly slated. It's a good little fast-paced Bond movie. Not a classic, but when was the last one of those any way?

    CR for me.

    And since QoS felt like a quality drop from CR, I am somewhat disappointed.

  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited December 2011 Posts: 14,684
    CR is hard to top. The question is: If a film like QoS came directly after DAD, would people like QoS any better than they did?

    (EDITED for clarity.)
  • Posts: 612
    QBranch wrote:
    CR was hard to top. The question is: If a film like QoS came directly after DAD, would people like QoS any better?

    Drinking wall paint is better than DAD.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited December 2011 Posts: 14,684
    What I meant was: If a film like QoS came directly after DAD, would people like QoS any better than they did? The awesomeness that was CR had a role to play in making QoS seem like a weaker film in the series. But let's take CR out of the equation for a second, and imagine QoS directly followed DAD. Would people like QoS any better than they originally did?
  • Posts: 5,745
    Yes. But I love it anyway. What a good lil' action flick 'tis.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Char35t wrote:
    Quantum is way to cloud like big everywhere (in Oregon) you blow a bit of it away just more fills the gap. They wont kill it off trust me they are coming big in 24...eon is just taking the GF break.

    The problem is that Spectre only disappeared for 2 years, between FRWL and TB, and Blofeld already appeared in FRWL. With Quantum, they disappeared for 6 years until Bond 24, and we barely saw them in QOS. So yes I think it is a legitimate question in that will the general audience feel cheated if Quantum doesn't appear again. IMO they wouldn't care at all. Had Quantum contained more of Quantum, ie. the head of Quantum appearing a-la Blofeld in FRWL, then yes Quantum should be brought back.

    But you have to understand the Bond 24 won't be made to satisfy the hardcore fans' appetite for more Quantum, but for the general audience who probably won't remember Quantum in 2014.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    With everything now on DVD/BD, it won't have been six years for anyone. All Quantum means, or should mean, is a great villain for Bond to tackle for that given film.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 440
    QBranch wrote:
    What I meant was: If a film like QoS came directly after DAD, would people like QoS any better than they did? The awesomeness that was CR had a role to play in making QoS seem like a weaker film in the series. But let's take CR out of the equation for a second, and imagine QoS directly followed DAD. Would people like QoS any better than they originally did?

    no, QOS problems seem to me to stem from the writers strike, the structure of the QOS plot was there but there were a number of scenes that needed to be filled out or polished up and that never happened

    I think QOS would still have been rated a mediocre entry at best

    IMO the only thing that can raise QOS reputation will be a strong third movie involving Quantum

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    Since Haggis didn't get to finish his draft, it would be interesting to know which scenes he had time to polish and which he didn't. I'd be willing to bet that he is responsible for the Bond/Mathis scenes, which for me are some of the better ones in QoS.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I find the criticism of QoS unfair. It's not a bad little film at all. CR was better overall but too long. QoS nips along nicely and has some decent Bondian touches, such as the opera scene. The opening chase is thrilling and short enough to leave you wanting more. I'm not arguing it doesn't have faults (could have done without agent Fields and the Goldfinger reference), but it's way better than any of the Brosnan dross. I appreciate it was slightly disappointing after CR, but we all know there were mitigating circumstances. And let's all hope Quantum does NOT reappear in Skyfall. There is absolutely no need for it to do so.

    I have absolutely no doubt that QoS will come to be seen as one of those films which was underappreciated at the time but grows in fans's affections over time.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Quantum is a pretty standard action film. It has it's good moments but suffers from mainly poor editing (the PTS is fairly pointless really), a story which is, to quote Judy Dench, "pretty thin" (even she didn't know what it was about) fairly weak supporting characters and just an overall lack of fun. It seems in effect to do what some of the Brosnan films did and crow-bar in action scenes just for the sake of it. I will say this though the film does have 2 good scenes at the end and doesn't do the cheesy "get with the girl thing".

    As preposterous as the tank chase in GE or the construction chase in CR may have been, at least they were well put together. You could see the time and effort that went into them and, behind the camera,was a filmmaker who knew how to edit action sequences properly.

    Most people I've talked to about QoS haven't rated it that highly. I suspect it will be another LTK, some fans will love it others won't.

    Is it the worst? No, but it does feel very underwelming as a Bond movie.

    Give me GE or CR hands down, at least they had a more complete feel to them and were done by people who seemed to know what they were doing.

    I haven't seen much of Forster's stuff but I liked Finding Neverland. However he was out of his depth for Bond.

    "Mitigating circumstances" shouldn't really be an excuse either.

    Found this rather cool fanmade clip:



  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I could envisage a 're-imagined' (people will cringe) Blofeld as head of Quantum

    I am certainly cringing but this may not be as ludicrous as it sounds.

    Bond has been rebooted so that he was born in 1967 or whatever, was in the SAS and went to Afghanistan etc so therefore it follows that in this timeline Tracy doesnt exist and nor do Blofeld and SPECTRE.

    It sounds like a shocking idea on the face of it but for Bond to be caught and brought to the leader of Quantum in Bond 24 and for him to turn and face Bond and say 'My name is Ernst Stavro Blofeld' would bring the house down.
    Even better if thats the end of the film (kind of like the 'Bond, James Bond' line in CR) leaving it on a massive cliffhanger. Even better still they film Bond 24 and 25 back to back before Daniel gets too old and have him going out in style in 2015.

    If it was someone of the calibre of say Gary Oldman hamming it right up as Ernst could EON pull this off in the realistic Craig era? Not saying volcanoes and rockets - well I am but more subtle and beliveable ones. Give Daniel an over the top TB/MR romp for his final film.

    Just for the record my position is that the whole idea would probably turn out as an absolute pile of crap but dont rule out P&W selling it to Babs. After all we are having a new Q and Moneypenny foisted upon us and rebooting is the holy grail of modern cinema.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    QBranch wrote:
    CR was hard to top. The question is: If a film like QoS came directly after DAD, would people like QoS any better?

    im pretty sure MGM would go bankrupt and that James Bond films would stop... Die Another Day despite having a bad repuation wasnt as abysmal as QOS- atleast it has fun moments..QOS is just a Jason Borune film- with horrible music, a pathetic villian and an inconsistant storyline which makes no F%**ing sense...
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 74
    Here's an interesting excerpt from the latest issue of SFX magazine:

    While Skyfall delivers a standalone villain in Javier Bardem's falmboyant, charismatically menacing Silva, (Barbara) Broccoli says that the filmmakers haven't abandoned the shadowy Quantum organisation, gameplayers behind the last two films. "No, I think it's still out there, but we just don't refer to it in this particular film."

    Tantalisingly, (Michael) Wilson reveals that they have the rights to bring back Blofeld and SPECTRE, cornerstones of the big-screen Bond that vanished in legal battles for long decades. "We believe we can use them. They're a little dated at the moment,. We went for the Quantum organisation, which was more business oriented, trying to corner the market on scare resources, rather than a criminal organisation that did blackmail and bank robberies..."

    "And since they were parodied in the Austin Powers films I think we need a little time to pass before we go back to extortion and blackmail!" laughs Broccoli. "The Quantum organisation does seems far more realistic".

    BAIN123 wrote:
    "Mitigating circumstances" shouldn't really be an excuse either.

    It's not an excuse though, it's a factor. CR and Skyfall weren't made under the cloud of something like the writer's strike whch I do feel gave the film a slightly different complexion to the other two.
  • I honestly don't care if Quantum return or not.

    I've read lots of comments saying the audience would feel cheated, but I think the mass audience wouldn't give a crap, especially after SF.

    Quantum were forgettable anyway.
  • Posts: 183
    I bet Quantum will come back in a post-credits scene in Skyfall, then as full villains in Bond 24 (who votes for The Final Problem? I do!).

    Interesting idea! I doubt it, but nice idea! If Quantum is re-introduced, I hope they're made extinct before the end of the DC era...
  • Posts: 5,745
    Bond 24 'The Final Problem' featuring the end of Mr. White, and the reveal and finishing of whoever is behind Quantum?

    Count me in.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    Here's an interesting excerpt from the latest issue of SFX magazine:

    While Skyfall delivers a standalone villain in Javier Bardem's falmboyant, charismatically menacing Silva, (Barbara) Broccoli says that the filmmakers haven't abandoned the shadowy Quantum organisation, gameplayers behind the last two films. "No, I think it's still out there, but we just don't refer to it in this particular film."

    Tantalisingly, (Michael) Wilson reveals that they have the rights to bring back Blofeld and SPECTRE, cornerstones of the big-screen Bond that vanished in legal battles for long decades. "We believe we can use them. They're a little dated at the moment,. We went for the Quantum organisation, which was more business oriented, trying to corner the market on scare resources, rather than a criminal organisation that did blackmail and bank robberies..."

    "And since they were parodied in the Austin Powers films I think we need a little time to pass before we go back to extortion and blackmail!" laughs Broccoli. "The Quantum organisation does seems far more realistic".


    Thanks for posting this for us.

    It seems Quantum will return and I'd be all for that in the next film. Hopefully they'll be up to something far bigger than before and pose a threat to Bond.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,360
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Bond 24 'The Final Problem' featuring the end of Mr. White, and the reveal and finishing of whoever is behind Quantum?

    Count me in.
    Quantum of Solace 2: Rise of the Revenge! :p
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 74
    RC7 wrote:
    It's interesting reading the connections people make between Quantum and the idea of grounding Bond in reality (I don't say that in a sarcastic way). I think it's about maintaining a healthy balance, for me grounding Bond in reality is not necessarily about having him get the living shit kicked out of him or be faced with a 'realistic' (horribly vague word) threat. There is a way to make Bond more human by injecting a lot of what is good about the books. I'm hoping given the prominence of London as a location we may see Bond's apartment again, for me, something as inconsequential as this adds a human touch far more appropriate than just copying the gritty Jason Bourne.

    You can substitute the word "realistic" with "plausible" then. ;)
    I honestly don't care if Quantum return or not.

    I've read lots of comments saying the audience would feel cheated, but I think the mass audience wouldn't give a crap, especially after SF.

    Quantum were forgettable anyway.

    I think the promise of introducing a major shadowy organisation that's a threat to Bond and then not delivering on that promise would be cheating the audience. Yes no-one's going to be up in arms if they never return because we're all there to see Bond. Still, you have to admit the possibility and potential of Quantum is pretty big? They can take it in various directions.

    Besides, if they were that forgettable then none of us would be talking about them ;).
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Thanks for posting this for us.

    It seems Quantum will return and I'd be all for that in the next film. Hopefully they'll be up to something far bigger than before and pose a threat to Bond.

    You're welcome. And it's quite likely they would be up to something bigger seeing as Bond is now on their radar. Remember during the Tosca opera scene they were discussing different plans. Clearly Greene was the proponent of the Tierra project ('crowning achievement'?) but they were discussing changing focus to the Canadian agent (or rather intelligence officer) and one voice even questioned "I'm still not sure the Tierra project is the best use of Quantum's time". So whilst it's an organisation or body there isn't always total agreement between all parties and this may cast doubts on a Blofeld figure. Unless he rises through the ranks to become their leader?

  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,119
    Since Skyfall has a plot which does not involve Quantum, and due to the general disappointment with QoS (I love the film!); does that mean Quantum has now been dropped altogether? I thought the first two films did a great job with setting up Quantum. CR made the introduction and QoS had the big reveal. Whether you like that film or not you have to say the way they revealed the organisation was brilliant and Quantum definitely seemed like a smart update of SPECTRE/SMERSH whilst still being sinister. I think Marc Forster said in a few interviews that the ending to QoS was done, so that a different enemy could be introduced should they wish not to use Quantum for a sequel. I only hope they haven't been ditched indefinitely. Anyone else feel the same?

    Well, let's not forget......Goldfinger was Sean's first Bond film without SPECTRE. I'm pretty certain QUANTUM will come back eventually. But then full-throttle, like SPECTRE did in Thunderball.

    Moreover, Sam Mendes said in Empire Magazine that he looks forward to directing the next Bond flick. I really hope so....

  • Posts: 97
    I fully expect Quantum to return, but I think it needs a bit of work on the part of the filmmakers to get me excited about them again.

    Personally I hate the fact they ended up calling 'the organisation', spoken of so obliquely in CR, Quantum. It was purely to tie it in with a weak title, and it sounds more like a software company based in Slough than anything else. Are we supposed to believe these shadowy oligarchs met up and that was the best name they could come up with? And I really think the main villain of QoS should have been Vesper's ex-boyfriend; not the walk-on character as revealed in the movie, but a big villain who Bond had an in-built reason to want to go after - an Emilio Largo to the organisation's unseen Blofeld equivalent. That would have been way cooler than what we got.
  • Posts: 74
    Well, let's not forget......Goldfinger was Sean's first Bond film without SPECTRE. I'm pretty certain QUANTUM will come back eventually. But then full-throttle, like SPECTRE did in Thunderball.

    Moreover, Sam Mendes said in Empire Magazine that he looks forward to directing the next Bond flick. I really hope so....

    That's a very good way of looking at it yes. :)

  • edited October 2012 Posts: 74
    Risico wrote:
    I fully expect Quantum to return, but I think it needs a bit of work on the part of the filmmakers to get me excited about them again.

    Personally I hate the fact they ended up calling 'the organisation', spoken of so obliquely in CR, Quantum. It was purely to tie it in with a weak title, and it sounds more like a software company based in Slough than anything else. Are we supposed to believe these shadowy oligarchs met up and that was the best name they could come up with? And I really think the main villain of QoS should have been Vesper's ex-boyfriend; not the walk-on character as revealed in the movie, but a big villain who Bond had an in-built reason to want to go after - an Emilio Largo to the organisation's unseen Blofeld equivalent. That would have been way cooler than what we got.

    I'm satisfied with how Yusef Kabira (Vesper's ex) was handled. At the end of it, he was just a very small cog in a big machine and really the real enemy is whoever's left in charge, which is quite a few people. The only thing though is if Quantum is brought back, what will they do with the likes of Guy Haines? I'd suspect they would just forget him and bring others in. Afterall, with their identities revealed, they could have been killed or apprehended - or most of them anyway.

    Quantum is the least dubious name one could have called it and if you look at one of the definitions for the word:

    a large quantity; bulk.

    Then makes sense in terms of their modus operandi and their ultimate goal: power and securing major resources.

    Personally I'd be surprised if there's anything in Slough let alone a software company :p .... "but someone's been buying up large tracts of land there for some philanthropic work.." oh hang on. And Quantum of Solace is an awesome title and it's one Fleming came up with.

  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited October 2012 Posts: 4,537
    Signs of Quantum's will be in the Skyfall teaser means in Skyfall and in Adele her song. Quantum and Camile wil return and wil then stick in you fantasy. John Logan also subtil give a hint :-$ :-SS where Quantum possible going stay for and Dominic Green did it too. :!! Wil tell.

  • I think they will certainly resume the Quantum storyline in future Bonds.

    What I want to know is; whether Quantum will eventually metamorphose into full blown SPECTRE....and whether somekind of overthecountercream will be made readily available. lol
  • Posts: 97
    And Quantum of Solace is an awesome title and it's one Fleming came up with.

    It's a fine title for a short story about a doomed relationship; I don't think it's a great title for a movie, and the same goes for 'OO7 In New York'. My point is it was a daft idea trying to squeeze more relevance out of the title by making Quantum the name of the organisation.
  • Posts: 1,492
    Getafix wrote:
    I
    I have absolutely no doubt that QoS will come to be seen as one of those films which was underappreciated at the time but grows in fans's affections over time.

    I agree with this. OHMSS was loathed and ridiculed until a new generation saw it away from the 1969 hoopla on vhs. OP was looked down on after release and is now a fan favourite.

    Same with QoS. There are lots of good points ie pace, character progression,cinematography and these will be seen as positives in time particularly when the Craig era is seen as a whole.

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