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Seriously now- which is worse, TWINE or DAD

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  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Luds said:
    what's always baffled me is how the movie goes from weak but passable to absolute travesty as soon as jinx arrives on screen.

    Agreed! It's as if the movie itself groaned when she came up out of the water. I know DAD is supposed to be the 40th anniversary and everything, but seriously, let's leave out the Honey Rider reference.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    I'm all for homages when they're properly handled. DAD was like taking the past, shoving it down your throat, clearing it and spitting it out, over, and over, and over again.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I know DAD is supposed to be the 40th anniversary and everything, but seriously, let's leave out the Honey Rider reference.
    Also, why the 40th anniversary? It's as if EON doubted Bond would be around another 10 years or they didn't have any other card to play for Die Another Day so the whole film was thought up off the back of that idea. I mean they should have at least saved all the homaging for the 50th.

    Note: I am not in any way implying I want homaging to Ursula Andress or anyting else in Bond 23 whatsoever. I fact I don't have any "homages" at all - not even one.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    The best homage to the series is adding another darn good Bond film. Give us a Bond film that could make the same top something something lists as OHMSS, FRWL or TB and I'll be very happy.

    The anniversary element of DAD has always played against my appreciation of the film.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I suppose I can understand the whole thinking behind the "anniversary" thing in DAD. It wasn't only the 40th anniversary since Dr No but also the 20th official film. Hence, I can't really blame the producers for believing they had to do something special.

    Unfortunately it backfired :s. In heinsight it would probably have been better if they did one or 2 references and left it at that. I always enjoyed the Q scene in the workshop, the flip round of the car with the ejector seat and MP sequence at the end. Maybe just leave it at those 3. They aren't too long and relitively inventive aswell.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    Rather than make a movie based on homages they should have made a real movie and a documentary on Bond's 40th anniversary as an extra.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    DAD isn't the only time a direct reference has been made to previous films. What about OHMSS? Die should have maybe done something nearer that if they really wanted to acknowledge the anniversary. Short and fairly brief.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    I know I said above that the homages were cool, but I think you may be right... too many of them. Q's lab where he said 'this is your 20th I believe' and the gadgets in the background would have sufficed now that I think about it.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    I mean, it wasn't a bad idea, but it just made the movie itself a little stale, in my opinion. However, the little homage to his previous missions in OHMSS was a nice touch. I liked seeing all those old things he had collected, but I'm still wondering how he could have possibly acquired Red Grant's watch? He didn't take it off of him after their fight.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Thinking about it, most of DAD's biggest problems weren't to do with its references to past films (with the exception of the lazer fight).
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited June 2011 Posts: 13,355
    I'm still wondering how he could have possibly acquired Red Grant's watch? He didn't take it off of him after their fight.
    Maybe we just didn't see that part. ;-)
    Thinking about it, most of DAD's biggest problems weren't to do with its references to past films.
    But it happens to be a film-long problem that just adds to the list of things Die Another Day got wrong and it seem much bigger than it is - it doesn't help at all.
  • anotherbondgeekanotherbondgeek
    Posts: 423
    I mean, it wasn't a bad idea, but it just made the movie itself a little stale, in my opinion. However, the little homage to his previous missions in OHMSS was a nice touch. I liked seeing all those old things he had collected, but I'm still wondering how he could have possibly acquired Red Grant's watch? He didn't take it off of him after their fight.
    They probably made more than one watch, or Q made one from Bond's description. Why he's got Honey's knife is what I want to know :P

  • anotherbondgeekanotherbondgeek
    edited June 2011 Posts: 423
    I'm all for homages when they're properly handled. DAD was like taking the past, shoving it down your throat, clearing it and spitting it out, over, and over, and over again.
    That sums up DAD pretty much perfectly. I liked a few of the subtle touches, like Graves' henchmen having the same orange uniform as Blofeld's in OHMSS, but the Honey Ryder homage felt more like a parody.

  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    I always like a good homage when I see one. It needs to be respectful and handled with class. Like in OHMSS. There's been various, in many franchises. DAD's issue was that all those homages were useless, forced into a farce.
  • ShorelineShoreline
    Posts: 251
    I know I said above that the homages were cool, but I think you may be right... too many of them. Q's lab where he said 'this is your 20th I believe' and the gadgets in the background would have sufficed now that I think about it.
    Yes, I think that would have been enough. And maybe Bond picking up Birds of the West Indies.
    On the plus side, it does make rewatching DAD more enjoyable, spotting all the references!

  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Did anyone else catch the reference to DAF during the scene with Raoul? Bond sees the Graves diamond logo, which is the same design as the window in Morton Slumber's funeral home!
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited October 2012 Posts: 12,837
    DAD by a mile.

    It's no Goldeneye but TWINE is a good film. It's been in my top 10 since I first saw it.

    EDIT- this was bumped by a spam bot? @situaios You're still here? how have you not been banned?!
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited October 2012 Posts: 11,119
    Luds wrote:
    I'm all for homages when they're properly handled. DAD was like taking the past, shoving it down your throat, clearing it and spitting it out, over, and over, and over again.

    LOL, that's the exact description I could not find. Thanks man hehe.

    Rating on www.metacritic.com:
    65%/100%. User score 8.3: 'GoldenEye'
    59%/100%. User score 6.7: 'The World Is Not Enough'
    56%/100%. User score 8.1: 'Tomorrow Never Dies'
    56%/100%. User score 6.1: 'Die Another Day'

    Apparently, the reviews for TWINE have been more positive than DAD and TND. And it comes in 2nd after GE. Moreover, and people tend to forget that, I think 'The World Is Not Enough' was easily Pierce Brosnan's best Bond film. You can disagree on Denise Richards and on all cheesy stunts in the end, but IMO Pierce was playing his most Fleming-esque Bond in TWINE.

    And after LTK was my first Bond film in cinema in 1989 (I was 8 then), this would be my TOP 7 of post-LTK-Bond films:
    01) 'Casino Royale'
    02) 'The World Is Not Enough'
    03) 'Licence To Kill'
    04) 'Quantum Of Solace'
    05) 'GoldenEye'
    06) 'Tomorrow Never Dies'
    07) 'Die Another Day'
  • LotusEspritLotusEsprit
    Posts: 160
    I really think that TWINE is one, maybe the, most underrated Bond movie! I haven't seen it for years, but I am currently watching the blue rays so I will soon have an updated opinion.
    As it stands, for me, there is absolutely no discussion which one is worse: DAD, and imo it's not even close.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I started to watch both TWINE and DAD the other week on the Bond movie channel. TWINE had its fair share of problems but I got through it fairly easily. There are bits and pieces throughout the film that are good.

    DAD was fairly watchable until Iceland when I had to turn it off once Bond started surfing*.

    (*yes I could even withstand the Bond/Jinx dialogue - that was just funny).
  • nobodydoesitbetternobodydoesitbetter
    Posts: 1,021
    DAD is most definately the worst. However - TWINE does have in my opinion some of the most dull action sequences in a Bond film sans the opening boat chase and also the worst performance by a Bond girl in Denise Richards.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    nobodydoesitbetter wrote:
    DAD is most definately the worst. However - TWINE does have in my opinion some of the most dull action sequences in a Bond film sans the opening boat chase and also the worst performance by a Bond girl in Denise Richards.

    You really think she's worse than Halle Berry?
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    TWINE isn't that bad, there are bad bits such as M appearing to be a drunk old auntie who has somehow got herself locked up for the night and Bond being a bit wet in places but overall it's not a bad Bond film and I too have no problem with Denise Richards.

    DAD is the far poorer film, I don't think I really need to go over the usual negatives with this film, but my major pet hate with this film is all the innudendo thrown into every conversation Bond has with a woman, it's like they thought it was a requirement for a Bond film but actually it's just embarrasing.
  • GrantGrant
    Posts: 140
    Moderator Please!

    Isn't this thread redundant? Advise to go to:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/165550#Comment_165550
  • UlyssesGamma_HoseUlyssesGamma_Hose
    Posts: 73
    TWINE has absolutely amateur action sequences.

    Back in 1999, when TWINE came out, we had the lightsaber battle from The Phantom Menace and the entire of The Matrix to show how thrilling action scenes could be.

    And then TWINE, which as a James Bond film should be setting the standards in that regard, came out....and was just embarassing.

    TWINE has it's strengths. but as an action movie, it's woeful.
  • 0iker00iker0
    Posts: 501
    DAD
  • dchantrydchantry
    Posts: 278
    CoH_GHOST_007 wrote:
    ofcourse DAD was a failure as a Bond film

    Really?
    A film that took almost half a billion at the box office is classed as a failure. I'm sure that Eon would be happy to see similar failures.

    Personally, I have no love for either Twine or DAD. Pre-credits for Twine are great, but the rest is pretty bland. DAD is OK 1st half, but the CGI Kite sequence completely ruins the film in general, it was that bad.
  • BangOnTimeBangOnTime
    Posts: 58
    DAD. It's a confusing mess with a horrible song.
  • BorremannBorremann
    Posts: 1
    One thing that really bothered me was the editing on DAD
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    TWINE may bve structurelly the better film but it remains dull and lifeless.
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