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Bond misses David Arnold

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  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited October 2012 Posts: 3,276
    SaintMark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    and now people realise Arnold is not so bad after all.

    like you say, no one is likely to ever match Barry.

    DA remains a poor choice even if Newman dissapoints he is the better composer and that DA could possible match him with his soundtracks says more about the work delivered by Newman.

    The franchise deserves a better composer, so lets hope next time we get a better one instead of the average work of DA. Simply because the franchise deserves better and perhaps EON should put the job out there instead of going for an average one.

    Nah Arnold's a good choice, he knows what the series needs musically.

    Too bad you feel that EON should limit itself to an average "composer" instead of searching the musical greatness that belonged to the franchise.

    Some folks are easily satisfied.
    And that's you being arrogant.

    Do I need to remind you that Arnold has been nominated for 25 different awards, including several BMI Film Music Awards?

    Guess those guys over at BMI are "easily satisfied"!!!


  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited October 2012 Posts: 8,217
    Zekidk wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    and now people realise Arnold is not so bad after all.

    like you say, no one is likely to ever match Barry.

    DA remains a poor choice even if Newman dissapoints he is the better composer and that DA could possible match him with his soundtracks says more about the work delivered by Newman.

    The franchise deserves a better composer, so lets hope next time we get a better one instead of the average work of DA. Simply because the franchise deserves better and perhaps EON should put the job out there instead of going for an average one.

    Nah Arnold's a good choice, he knows what the series needs musically.

    Too bad you feel that EON should limit itself to an average "composer" instead of searching the musical greatness that belonged to the franchise.

    Some folks are easily satisfied.
    And that's you being arrogant.

    Do I need to remind you that Arnold has been nominated for 25 different awards, including several BMI Film Music Awards?

    Guess those guys over at BMI are "easily satisfied"!!!


    Arrogant would be understating it somewhat. I'm not talking about Eon limiting themselves at all, I'm more than happy for Eon to pick someone else as long as they're up to the task, which Newman wasn't. Arnold has a lot of passion for what he does.
    What's too bad is that he feels he's stating facts when actually he's just trying to force his opinion out there with little to no success, I feel sorry for him, but only a little.

    However, it is his opinion and he is entitled to it unfortunately.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    and now people realise Arnold is not so bad after all.

    like you say, no one is likely to ever match Barry.

    DA remains a poor choice even if Newman dissapoints he is the better composer and that DA could possible match him with his soundtracks says more about the work delivered by Newman.

    The franchise deserves a better composer, so lets hope next time we get a better one instead of the average work of DA. Simply because the franchise deserves better and perhaps EON should put the job out there instead of going for an average one.

    Nah Arnold's a good choice, he knows what the series needs musically.

    Too bad you feel that EON should limit itself to an average "composer" instead of searching the musical greatness that belonged to the franchise.

    Some folks are easily satisfied.
    And that's you being arrogant.

    Do I need to remind you that Arnold has been nominated for 25 different awards, including several BMI Film Music Awards?

    Guess those guys over at BMI are "easily satisfied"!!!


    Arrogant would be understating it somewhat. I'm not talking about Eon limiting themselves at all, I'm more than happy for Eon to pick someone else as long as they're up to the task, which Newman wasn't. Arnold has a lot of passion for what he does.
    What's too bad is that he feels he's stating facts when actually he's just trying to force his opinion out there with little to no success, I feel sorry for him, but only a little.

    However, it is his opinion and he is entitled to it unfortunately.

    Do not feel sorry for me at all, I am very happy with the earlier Bond soundtracks, mostly pre-Arnold. I just find that when EON is trading up in writers and directors they do not do so with the composer. While I consider the Newman soundtrack a step forward into a more quality product it does leave somewhat to be desired when compared to the grand heritage of Bondmusic.

    I would like it if they left DA in retirement and started looking for a quality composer, who can actually add something new to the franchise's quality especially the music.

    And all those prices DA won have little to do with his skill of coming up with new material that is recognisable outside the movie theater. He did some re-arranging of the Barry music (drum and Bass and whatnot) but what is his great soundtrack that is recognisable based upon his own original ideas????? He has done some nice pieces on several of the albums but not really left his mark on the franchise at all. As a composer he should be happy to be away several movies perhaps he can come up with a new theme or whatnot. DA might have passion but it does not translate well into good compositions in the 007 franchise, a little is no longer enough if EON wants to vamp up the quality of its productions.

    ANd I hope for next one we get a better effort of Newman or another composer.

    And for all those prices, whatever. Everytime the oscars get mentioned most folks get upset with the taste shown there and disagree a lot. The same alpplies to most awards as I am always in awe how they can pick certain choices. When here is so much quality out there that much more deserves to be recognised.

  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,276
    SaintMark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    and now people realise Arnold is not so bad after all.

    like you say, no one is likely to ever match Barry.

    DA remains a poor choice even if Newman dissapoints he is the better composer and that DA could possible match him with his soundtracks says more about the work delivered by Newman.

    The franchise deserves a better composer, so lets hope next time we get a better one instead of the average work of DA. Simply because the franchise deserves better and perhaps EON should put the job out there instead of going for an average one.

    Nah Arnold's a good choice, he knows what the series needs musically.

    Too bad you feel that EON should limit itself to an average "composer" instead of searching the musical greatness that belonged to the franchise.

    Some folks are easily satisfied.
    And that's you being arrogant.

    Do I need to remind you that Arnold has been nominated for 25 different awards, including several BMI Film Music Awards?

    Guess those guys over at BMI are "easily satisfied"!!!

    Arrogant would be understating it somewhat. I'm not talking about Eon limiting themselves at all, I'm more than happy for Eon to pick someone else as long as they're up to the task, which Newman wasn't. Arnold has a lot of passion for what he does.
    What's too bad is that he feels he's stating facts when actually he's just trying to force his opinion out there with little to no success, I feel sorry for him, but only a little.

    However, it is his opinion and he is entitled to it unfortunately.

    And all those prices DA won have little to do with his skill of coming up with new material that is recognisable outside the movie theater. He did some re-arranging of the Barry music (drum and Bass and whatnot) but what is his great soundtrack that is recognisable based upon his own original ideas????? He has done some nice pieces on several of the albums but not really left his mark on the franchise at all. As a composer he should be happy to be away several movies perhaps he can come up with a new theme or whatnot. DA might have passion but it does not translate well into good compositions in the 007 franchise, a little is no longer enough if EON wants to vamp up the quality of its productions.

    ANd I hope for next one we get a better effort of Newman or another composer.

    And for all those prices, whatever. Everytime the oscars get mentioned most folks get upset with the taste shown there and disagree a lot. The same alpplies to most awards as I am always in awe how they can pick certain choices.
    Yeah. Like you said - they are all "easily satisfied" if they pick someone that you dislike. CraigMooreOHMSS was spot on!
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Zekidk wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    and now people realise Arnold is not so bad after all.

    like you say, no one is likely to ever match Barry.

    DA remains a poor choice even if Newman dissapoints he is the better composer and that DA could possible match him with his soundtracks says more about the work delivered by Newman.

    The franchise deserves a better composer, so lets hope next time we get a better one instead of the average work of DA. Simply because the franchise deserves better and perhaps EON should put the job out there instead of going for an average one.

    Nah Arnold's a good choice, he knows what the series needs musically.

    Too bad you feel that EON should limit itself to an average "composer" instead of searching the musical greatness that belonged to the franchise.

    Some folks are easily satisfied.
    And that's you being arrogant.

    Do I need to remind you that Arnold has been nominated for 25 different awards, including several BMI Film Music Awards?

    Guess those guys over at BMI are "easily satisfied"!!!

    Arrogant would be understating it somewhat. I'm not talking about Eon limiting themselves at all, I'm more than happy for Eon to pick someone else as long as they're up to the task, which Newman wasn't. Arnold has a lot of passion for what he does.
    What's too bad is that he feels he's stating facts when actually he's just trying to force his opinion out there with little to no success, I feel sorry for him, but only a little.

    However, it is his opinion and he is entitled to it unfortunately.

    And all those prices DA won have little to do with his skill of coming up with new material that is recognisable outside the movie theater. He did some re-arranging of the Barry music (drum and Bass and whatnot) but what is his great soundtrack that is recognisable based upon his own original ideas????? He has done some nice pieces on several of the albums but not really left his mark on the franchise at all. As a composer he should be happy to be away several movies perhaps he can come up with a new theme or whatnot. DA might have passion but it does not translate well into good compositions in the 007 franchise, a little is no longer enough if EON wants to vamp up the quality of its productions.

    ANd I hope for next one we get a better effort of Newman or another composer.

    And for all those prices, whatever. Everytime the oscars get mentioned most folks get upset with the taste shown there and disagree a lot. The same alpplies to most awards as I am always in awe how they can pick certain choices.
    Yeah. Like you said - they are all "easily satisfied" if they pick someone that you dislike. CraigMooreOHMSS was spot on!

    Yeah, especially that opinions that disagree with his are an unfortunate entitlement. O:-)

    As only 30 cd's are actually James Bond related in my soundtrack collection both on cd and album, I feel that there are plenty great composers out there that could actually add to the franchise. ANd more often than not I hear on other sites about different composers that are actually quite new to me.

    And the prices won by DA are celebrated as a fact of his greatness. Really what does that say about the greatness of AVATAR & TITANIC??
    If Newman or Adele wins an Oscar or whatever price are they than accepted as better than DA???

    My personal opinion is that DA had his chance, did little with it. There are plenty of folks out there that have something to offer that is easily better. Newman tried and while I enjoy his soundtrack on cd it does come up short when compared with the golden musical period of the 007 franchise (which is not the DA period imho).

    Lets have some new quality composer try and infuse some new strength into the franchises music.


  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited October 2012 Posts: 3,276
    SaintMark wrote:
    There are plenty of folks out there that have something to offer that is easily better.
    I'm not arguing who is the better composer. An A++ composer like John Williams may not be right for the Bond movies, whereas an A-list composer like Arnold suits the bill right, IMO.

    Scoring Bond-movies is not for everyone. You have to have some sort of passion. Something that Newman, unlike fanboy Arnold, clearly lacked when scoring his Bond movie. For him it was just another job!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Zekidk wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    There are plenty of folks out there that have something to offer that is easily better.
    I'm not arguing who is the better composer. An A++ composer like John Williams may not be right for the Bond movies, whereas an A-list composer like Arnold suits the bill right, IMO.

    Scoring Bond-movies is not for everyone. You have to have some sort of passion. Something that Newman, unlike fanboy Arnold, clearly lacked when scoring a Bond movie.

    I think that's the deciding factor when it comes to Bond music.
    I really think that saying Arnold is not a 'composer' is extremely unfair @SaintMark, that's all. Saying his Bond music isn't all that great is one thing, labelling him a hack is another.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    There are plenty of folks out there that have something to offer that is easily better.
    I'm not arguing who is the better composer. An A++ composer like John Williams may not be right for the Bond movies, whereas an A-list composer like Arnold suits the bill right, IMO.

    Scoring Bond-movies is not for everyone. You have to have some sort of passion. Something that Newman, unlike fanboy Arnold, clearly lacked when scoring a Bond movie.

    I think that's the deciding factor when it comes to Bond music.
    I really think that saying Arnold is not a 'composer' is extremely unfair @SaintMark, that's all. Saying his Bond music isn't all that great is one thing, labelling him a hack is another.

    Well imho he mucked up a Doctor WHo theme (the 8th Doctor to be exact BF audiobooks) so expect little sympathy from me. ;)

    I like his Stargate SG1 music, not too sure about ID4, have his Young American ost-cd, find his shaken and stirred cd fairly good, like his SHerlock Holmes tv music (not sure he is all responsible for it).

    He might be a fanboy, so was Benson (the writer). But that does not give them extra credit when it comes to work. They might get the job that way but still have to prove and improve.

    And perhaps it is time for A++ lister, we had Barry, Bacharach, Conti who were in that category. I agree not all are best suited but some just might.

  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,276
    SaintMark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    There are plenty of folks out there that have something to offer that is easily better.
    I'm not arguing who is the better composer. An A++ composer like John Williams may not be right for the Bond movies, whereas an A-list composer like Arnold suits the bill right, IMO.

    Scoring Bond-movies is not for everyone. You have to have some sort of passion. Something that Newman, unlike fanboy Arnold, clearly lacked when scoring a Bond movie.

    I think that's the deciding factor when it comes to Bond music.
    I really think that saying Arnold is not a 'composer' is extremely unfair @SaintMark, that's all. Saying his Bond music isn't all that great is one thing, labelling him a hack is another.

    Well imho he mucked up a Doctor WHo theme (the 8th Doctor to be exact BF audiobooks) so expect little sympathy from me. ;)

    I like his Stargate SG1 music, not too sure about ID4, have his Young American ost-cd, find his shaken and stirred cd fairly good, like his SHerlock Holmes tv music (not sure he is all responsible for it).

    He might be a fanboy, so was Benson (the writer). But that does not give them extra credit when it comes to work. They might get the job that way but still have to prove and improve.

    And perhaps it is time for A++ lister, we had Barry, Bacharach, Conti who were in that category. I agree not all are best suited but some just might.
    Bill Conti is a perfect example why an A++ composer should never be the "deciding factor" when hiring a composer to score a Bond movie. Of all the Bond movies, the FYEO soundtrack sounds the most dated.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited October 2012 Posts: 8,217
    SaintMark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    There are plenty of folks out there that have something to offer that is easily better.
    I'm not arguing who is the better composer. An A++ composer like John Williams may not be right for the Bond movies, whereas an A-list composer like Arnold suits the bill right, IMO.

    Scoring Bond-movies is not for everyone. You have to have some sort of passion. Something that Newman, unlike fanboy Arnold, clearly lacked when scoring a Bond movie.

    I think that's the deciding factor when it comes to Bond music.
    I really think that saying Arnold is not a 'composer' is extremely unfair @SaintMark, that's all. Saying his Bond music isn't all that great is one thing, labelling him a hack is another.

    Well imho he mucked up a Doctor WHo theme (the 8th Doctor to be exact BF audiobooks) so expect little sympathy from me. ;)

    I like his Stargate SG1 music, not too sure about ID4, have his Young American ost-cd, find his shaken and stirred cd fairly good, like his SHerlock Holmes tv music (not sure he is all responsible for it).

    He might be a fanboy, so was Benson (the writer). But that does not give them extra credit when it comes to work. They might get the job that way but still have to prove and improve.

    And perhaps it is time for A++ lister, we had Barry, Bacharach, Conti who were in that category. I agree not all are best suited but some just might.

    Haven't heard the Doctor Who theme he did but that's fair enough, if he mucked it up, he mucked it up. And being a Doctor Who fan myself I understand that you really can't muck the theme up, it's vital! ;)

    ID4 is good, the bootleg release is pretty crappy in terms of mixing but last years 2CD release corrected it. Godzilla is also a damn fine score, mainly because there was heavy emphasis on orchestra and it was expertly arranged by Nicholas Dodd.

    Yeah maybe, but I suppose isn't that what we went for with Newman? It only partially worked, some excellent parts and then some really dull ones.

    @Zekidk I agree, I despised Conti's score for FYEO, completely undermined the tone of the film for me.
  • DOUBLEONOELDOUBLEONOEL
    Posts: 11
    I thought Newman did ok. It wasn't at all intrusive like Mr.Conti or Mr.Kamen's efforts. Mind you I can't really remember anything specific about the score either. But what's always a danger is that new composers can't resist inserting the Bond theme whenever possible. He picked his moments well. Personally I missed Arnold and I disliked his Brosnan scores but he matured with Craig's movies and stopped the fanboy stuff. I agree that some of his action cues can be aimless but I think Quantum was a superior well judged soundtrack. Felt bad for him this time but glad he had his Bond theme in there. A present from the producers perhaps?
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,276
    And here's something from the "non-quality"-composer:


    And here's the so-called A++ list composer:
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    After listening to the Skyfall soundtrack, I can safely say that David Arnold was missed. The score lacked the brassy punch and soul David put into his scores. Tom's score was okay but it was just unmemorable where all of Arnold's Scores always stick out in my mind. I love the Wah wah's man!
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    Zekidk wrote:
    And here's something from the "non-quality"-composer:

    vimeo.com/39947360

    Can I just say, I love the sound of that helicopter. Of all the helicopters in that movie. Random, I know, but it's just so good..

    Music is wonderful too.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    I admit that TWINE is easily one of DA's best, but I love that Conti tune in FYEO. He did give FYEO its own particular sound and does score pretty expert for that movie. So yes Conti did well for FYEO, and of course I would have liked to have JB scoring it.
  • LofqvistLofqvist
    Posts: 56
    Sometimes I got the impression that David Arnold was fumbling with Bond-music like a "freshman pulling at a panty girdle"... I did not get that impression with Newman. Furthermore, the score playing when M is reading Tennyson whilst Bond is running through the streets of London is breathtaking. The best scene in the whole movie, much thanks to the music. Good work Newman!
  • SPECTRESPECTRE
    Posts: 51
    Zekidk wrote:
    And here's something from the "non-quality"-composer:
    And here's the so-called A++ list composer:

    Yeah, the FYEO score is pretty poor, but still not nearly as bad as the TSWLM score which is a joke. The opening ski chase score in TSWLM is absolutely horrible (this from a big fan of 70's and 80's music) and is an insult to Barry's OHMSS theme, not to mention the ridiculous music during the "van in the desert" scene. Interestingly I somewhat did enjoy Conti's score for the ski chase in FYEO, especially from the ski jump forward. However, the music for the car chase scene you posted is pretty mediocre and isn't a good fit for a Bond film. Watching all the Bond Blu-Rays (I'm at AVTAK now) it was easy to pick out the non-Barry films.

    Arnold was very Barry-esque in his scores, although not quite matching the clear king of Bond music. I especially like his take on the Bond theme for TWINE. From the comments on this forum the choice of Newman was clearly a mistake. Hopefully Arnold will be back for Bond 24.
  • SPECTRESPECTRE
    Posts: 51
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:
    And here's something from the "non-quality"-composer:

    vimeo.com/39947360

    Can I just say, I love the sound of that helicopter. Of all the helicopters in that movie. Random, I know, but it's just so good..

    Music is wonderful too.

    Yeah it's pretty awesome. It's the actual sound of that particular helicopter--the Eurocopter Dauphin/Dolphin (my favorite). I live in the Maryland suburbs of DC and will see one once in a while, either a Coast Guard aircraft or a MD state police one (used for the state's unique medevac service). I like them way better than the typical drone of the news/private JetRanger helicopters and military Blackhawks which are also pretty common in the area.
  • LicenceRevokedLicenceRevoked
    Posts: 204
    maxcraig wrote:
    Newman's score is a success because it doesn't stand out and steal the show, it blends in very well with the images.

    I have to agree with maxcraig - Whilst there are only a few memorable cues from the Skyfall soundtrack, it really does blend in well with the visuals whereas Arnold's scores are more at the forefront.

    I am hands down a David Arnold fan and I was literally gutted to hear that he wasn't going to be doing the score for Skyfall, but that said after I saw Skyfall I have to say I'm not sure a David Arnold score would have worked for this movie and the way it is visually and pacing wise- (though it still would be interesting to have an alternate David Arnold soundtrack to see what he would have done with it!)

  • 77777777
    Posts: 8
    I agree Bond misses David Arnold - Skyfall is immesurably better by his absence.

    In five films he has failed to offer anything distinctive.
  • maxcraigmaxcraig
    Posts: 229
    Funny not long ago people wanted to get rid of Arnold :D
    What else ? will we have a thread "Bond misses Purvis and Wade" in a few weeks time ?
  • 77777777
    Posts: 8
    Zekidk wrote:
    And here's something from the "non-quality"-composer:


    And here's the so-called A++ list composer:

    I agree - Conti is much better.

  • grunthergrunther
    Posts: 158
    I’m surprised you linked the ski chase because that’s an awful piece of music- much like the work for the entire film!

    CR’s African Rundown & City of lovers as superb cues though.

    I don’t expect anyone to come in a rival the greatness of Barry but why not use his template? Difficult if you’re not involved with the title sequence I suppose.

    I’ve been listening to the Skyfall OST and enjoying a few tracks like “New Digs” and the harder version of it – “The Moors” but on the whole I’ve been quite bored of these rhythm-driven ambience “action scores” for a few years now.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    maxcraig wrote:
    Funny not long ago people wanted to get rid of Arnold :D

    I love Newman's score and don't want Arnold anywhere near a Bond film ever again!
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    maxcraig wrote:
    Funny not long ago people wanted to get rid of Arnold :D
    What else ? will we have a thread "Bond misses Purvis and Wade" in a few weeks time ?

    never gonna happen!
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN!!!! :D
  • nobodydoesitbetternobodydoesitbetter
    Posts: 1,021
    I have a feeling its going to be a while until Arnold scores another film. Who ever directs the next Bond film I see them bringing on a composer that they may have already worked with. Example - if Mendes comes back it will be Newman again and if its Matthew Vaughn he will bring with him Henry Jackman (kick ass - x men first class) and Nolan will bring along Han Zimmer...
  • MuddywMuddyw
    Posts: 198
    SaintMark wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    and now people realise Arnold is not so bad after all.

    like you say, no one is likely to ever match Barry.

    DA remains a poor choice even if Newman dissapoints he is the better composer and that DA could possible match him with his soundtracks says more about the work delivered by Newman.

    The franchise deserves a better composer, so lets hope next time we get a better one instead of the average work of DA. Simply because the franchise deserves better and perhaps EON should put the job out there instead of going for an average one.

    Agree! Arnold ruined his music by overusing those ugly technodrums and of course missing one coherent soundtrack (Casino is the exception).
  • petergreenhill5petergreenhill5
    Posts: 824
    JamesCraig wrote:
    I love most of his Bond-soundtracks. Seeing that he couldn't work on Skyfall as he was busy for the olympics, I have good hope he'll be back.

    Arnold was dropped from Skyfall because Eon wanted Mendes and Mendes wanted Newman.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited November 2012 Posts: 13,978
    SaintMark wrote:
    Well imho he mucked up a Doctor WHo theme (the 8th Doctor to be exact BF audiobooks) so expect little sympathy from me. ;)

    I liked that one.

    Looking on youtube, I can't believe that the 8th Doctor has had 4 diifferent themes.
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