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US Election - November 6

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  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    HFrog1999 wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    I came to the conclusion I can't understand American politics. It's sad but true. I also don't understand how the USA doesn't have a public health care service for example. I aways lived in countries where health care is a right and I cannot imagine a civilized country where it isn't, I think this says a lot. That is why I always resist the idea of moving to the US although I had the chance to do it, like I said to someone one day, despite all it's problems I'm still in love with Europe, for better and for worse.
    Healthcare is a major problem in the US. However, I can't imagine looking to the Government to provide my healthcare. I actually find the concept frightening.

    I also find the concept of something being a "right" when someone else is forced to pay for it as being strange. How can one person demand money from another person to pay for their healthcare? Why aren't people expected to pay for their own healthcare in other countries?

    Because other countries understand that a nation does better when it's citizens work together to build a better quality of life for all, not for the few. This isn't the wild west anymore, individuals arne't on their own. Globalization is real and American's have to embrace it or we're going to fall behind the rest of the world going forward into the 21st century.
    HFrog1999 wrote:
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    Because other countries understand that a nation does better when it's citizens work together to build a better quality of life for all, not for the few. This isn't the wild west anymore, individuals arne't on their own. Globalization is real and American's have to embrace it or we're going to fall behind the rest of the world going forward into the 21st century.
    Maybe you're right. However, personally I'm not comfortable with that kind of collectivism. I don't really see it working in Europe. I prefer to be left to my own devises. I'm not comfortable living in a country where the government controls my every day life.

    I wouldn't have said it best myself @sirseanisbond. Just to make this clear it's not Government who provides health, it's the national health service, which is different. And it works reasonably well for your information @HFrog1999, certainly much better than the American way. Europeans live healthier, longer lives than Americans for some reason don't you think?
  • HFrog1999HFrog1999
    Posts: 14
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    HFrog1999 wrote:
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    What Americans really need to realize is that the 'Government' isn't some big scary thing. It is at our control on days like tomorrow, and placing our faith in them to do what is right is part of a social contract which has existed in one form or another for hundreds of years. Also, the reason it's not working in Europe is because the American economy tanked and like the rest of the world they came with us. If we had more collectivism their would be much more stability in the economy.
    I just don't share your faith in the government or the majority of voters. I think people should be left alone as much as possible to live their lives as they see fit. I believe in individual freedom, not the will of the collective. That's just the way I see things and I'd like to be able to live in a country where I can do that. I don't wish ill on those who want to live differently. If people are more comfortable in a collective society. Then more power to them.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2012 Posts: 17,789
    Gentlemen, may I suggest this thread be left for dead in the interests of peace? We can gain nothing from discovering the different levels of nonsensical thinking in our ranks IMO.
  • HFrog1999HFrog1999
    Posts: 14
    Sandy wrote:
    I wouldn't have said it best myself @sirseanisbond. Just to make this clear it's not Government who provides health, it's the national health service, which is different. And it works reasonably well for your information @HFrog1999, certainly much better than the American way. Europeans live healthier, longer lives than Americans for some reason don't you think?
    I'll take your word for it. Like I said, the health care system is broken here. I just don't trust the government to "fix" it.

  • HFrog1999HFrog1999
    Posts: 14
    chrisisall wrote:

    Gentlemen, may I suggest this thread be left for dead in the interests of peace? We can gain nothing from discovering the different levels of ignorance and/or blind faith in our ranks IMO.

    Political disagreement is hardly a sign of ignorance and/or blind faith. People have different opinions and beliefs. Just because someone may disagree with someone over politics doesn't make them ignorant. I respect the beliefs of others and enjoy hearing their reasons for their beliefs. Often people have different points of view for very good reasons.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    HFrog1999 wrote:
    Just because someone may disagree with someone over politics doesn't make them ignorant.
    I believe this applies mainly to people OUTSIDE of my country....
  • TroyTroy
    edited November 2012 Posts: 342
    00Beast wrote:
    LeChiffre wrote:
    Romney= George Dubya part 2 IMO. War-mongering idiot in other words.
    g

    Perhaps war is the best way to provide a stand against our enemies and actually take them out to ensure our own safety and security. Goodness knows I'd rather have a little offensive gunfire than wait to see if our enemy strikes. I back presidents who have the "go get 'em mentality like George W. Bush and Mitt Romney! They get things done!

    Are you serious!!!?!

    On that rationale, do you think that Iran should nuke Israel asap?

    Do you think that invading Iraq has reduced the number of enemies of the US?

  • sirseanisbondsirseanisbond
    Posts: 2,189
    HFrog1999 wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    I wouldn't have said it best myself @sirseanisbond. Just to make this clear it's not Government who provides health, it's the national health service, which is different. And it works reasonably well for your information @HFrog1999, certainly much better than the American way. Europeans live healthier, longer lives than Americans for some reason don't you think?
    I'll take your word for it. Like I said, the health care system is broken here. I just don't trust the government to "fix" it.

    Well someone has to, and the government is a much safer bet than the public sector. It's because we have no government healthcare that the system is broken in this country. We've just been letting companies decide our fate for us, and to me, THAT is much scarier than letting the government decide it. We have control over the government, letting companies run our lives is as good as being back in a feudalist society where King CEO dictates everything.
  • HFrog1999HFrog1999
    Posts: 14
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    HFrog1999 wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    I wouldn't have said it best myself @sirseanisbond. Just to make this clear it's not Government who provides health, it's the national health service, which is different. And it works reasonably well for your information @HFrog1999, certainly much better than the American way. Europeans live healthier, longer lives than Americans for some reason don't you think?
    I'll take your word for it. Like I said, the health care system is broken here. I just don't trust the government to "fix" it.

    Well someone has to, and the government is a much safer bet than the public sector. It's because we have no government healthcare that the system is broken in this country. We've just been letting companies decide our fate for us, and to me, THAT is much scarier than letting the government decide it. We have control over the government, letting companies run our lives is as good as being back in a feudalist society where King CEO dictates everything.
    Well, it would take a very long thread to debate healthcare.

    However, I think the Economy will sink Obama this time around. Fairly or not, people do vote base on their pocketbooks. I don't see anyone getting re-elected with the current state of the economy.

  • sirseanisbondsirseanisbond
    Posts: 2,189
    See for yourself, Obama's as sure of a win as Bush was in 2004...
    http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/romney-vs-obama-electoral-map
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    I am pretty anxious to see who wins-- could really go either way
  • HFrog1999HFrog1999
    Posts: 14
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    See for yourself, Obama's as sure of a win as Bush was in 2004...
    http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/romney-vs-obama-electoral-map
    I could show you plenty of articles and polls that show Romney will win. The polls and the media outlets are spinning the data to their audiences. They don't really tell us anything.

    Obama may win tomorrow. If so, I will be very surprised.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Troy wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    LeChiffre wrote:
    Romney= George Dubya part 2 IMO. War-mongering idiot in other words.
    g

    Perhaps war is the best way to provide a stand against our enemies and actually take them out to ensure our own safety and security. Goodness knows I'd rather have a little offensive gunfire than wait to see if our enemy strikes. I back presidents who have the "go get 'em mentality like George W. Bush and Mitt Romney! They get things done!

    Are you serious!!!?!

    On that rationale, do you think that Iran should nuke Israel asap?

    Do you think that invading Iraq has reduced the number of enemies of the US?

    I just want to be clear that A LOT of my fellow countrymen are considerate, thoughtful and educated people who take a world view of their country.... we don't all think we should shoot first and ask questions later.
  • sirseanisbondsirseanisbond
    Posts: 2,189
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    I am pretty anxious to see who wins-- could really go either way
    HFrog1999 wrote:
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    See for yourself, Obama's as sure of a win as Bush was in 2004...
    http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/romney-vs-obama-electoral-map
    I could show you plenty of articles and polls that show Romney will win. The polls and the media outlets are spinning the data to their audiences. They don't really tell us anything.

    Obama may win tomorrow. If so, I will be very surprised.

    Here's the New York Times take on it. This shows how unlikely it is that Romney will win and how much Obama really is favored.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/11/02/us/politics/paths-to-the-white-house.html?ref=politics
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    I am pretty anxious to see who wins-- could really go either way
    Just in case, is it difficult to become a UK citizen? Expensive?
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    There seem to be quite a lot of Republicans here...
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    edited November 2012 Posts: 4,813
    chrisisall wrote:
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    I am pretty anxious to see who wins-- could really go either way
    Just in case, is it difficult to become a UK citizen? Expensive?
    I'd love to live in the UK-- though I'd really miss my family
  • HFrog1999HFrog1999
    Posts: 14
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    I am pretty anxious to see who wins-- could really go either way
    HFrog1999 wrote:
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    See for yourself, Obama's as sure of a win as Bush was in 2004...
    http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/romney-vs-obama-electoral-map
    I could show you plenty of articles and polls that show Romney will win. The polls and the media outlets are spinning the data to their audiences. They don't really tell us anything.

    Obama may win tomorrow. If so, I will be very surprised.

    Here's the New York Times take on it. This shows how unlikely it is that Romney will win and how much Obama really is favored.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/11/02/us/politics/paths-to-the-white-house.html?ref=politics
    It all boils down to voter enthusiasm. It was obvious Obama was going to win last time. People were pissed about the economy and tired of war. Also McCain ran a terrible campaign and Obama ran a brilliant campaign. Bush won the second term because he was a war time President. Dole ran a horrible campaign against Clinton and people were happy about the economy. With Bush part 1 people were pissed about the Economy and Clinton ran a great campaign.

    IMO, people are upset with the Economy and Romney ran a better more energetic campaign than Obama. The polls can tell you or I whatever we want to hear.

    I think this is a more valuable Presidential Predictor.

    http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2012/10/04/updated-election-forecasting-model-still-points-romney-win-university

  • JawsIsAliveJawsIsAlive
    Posts: 233
    00Beast wrote:
    Definitely Mitt Romney! A Conservative Republican with God-centered values, a patriotic love of country, and plans for bringing America back to its roots is exactly the kind of man we need in the Oval Office! Can't wait to have "President" Obama out of office. It's about time we got rid of him. His false promises and lies have done more than enough to bring this country to its knees! Our morals and former Christian values from years past have sunk so low that they're almost non-existant. I respect former Presidents George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan for making attempts to bring this back around. Who you have sitting in the chair of the country really does influence the nation. Outstanding men of faith who really knew what it took to turn America around. It starts with who you believe in and what you believe. The other things like debt, health care plans, and government departments can come second once you fix the values of the people, and show them how this nation will be run. Romney is just the man we need after 4 horrifying years of Obama's liberal, pansy, "please everyone" policies. Sorry Barack Houssein, sometimes you've got to step on some toes. Besides, America is much safer with you out of office. I'm surprised we haven't already been attacked on our own soil again, giving Obama's more than suspicious origins and connections.

    If you're serious then... I don't know where to begin. I'm not gonna go there.

    I'm honestly quite shocked anyone would consider electing Mitt Romney. It's almost funny.
  • HFrog1999HFrog1999
    Posts: 14
    Agent007391 wrote:
    There seem to be quite a lot of Republicans here...
    Well Bond is a character created by the heir of a wealthy banking family who traveled the world womanizing, drinking and killing Communists after all.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    HFrog1999 wrote:
    IMO, people are upset with the Economy and Romney ran a better more energetic campaign than Obama.
    So, no concern for Romney's love of fellow corporate elite, or disdain for the '47%' he sees as unworthy losers? An energetic campaign justifies higher taxes on the middle class, a rollback of social freedoms, and another BIG war to come...?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    I'd love to live in the UK-- though I'd really miss my family
    My Wife visited the UK a couple of years back in her job as a study abroad coordinator, she LOVED it- the people, the places, the National Gallery, everything! I was so envious, I wish I could have gone with her!

  • BritishChap007BritishChap007
    Posts: 555
    Mitt Rmbey is the only choice. He is a brilliant man with all the right experiences. It would be a damned shame if he didn't win.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    BritishChap007 wrote:
    Mitt Rmbey is the only choice. He is a brilliant man
    May I assume English is not your first language? /:)
  • robboadamrobboadam
    Posts: 224
    chrisisall wrote:
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    I'd love to live in the UK-- though I'd really miss my family
    My Wife visited the UK a couple of years back in her job as a study abroad coordinator, she LOVED it- the people, the places, the National Gallery, everything! I was so envious, I wish I could have gone with her!

    People from outside the UK seem to think that if they walk around London, they've seen the UK. If you really wanna know what the UK is like, go to Cornwall, the Lake District, Scotland, even other cities like Birmingham and Manchester.

    London does not equal the UK......fortunately.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    chrisisall wrote:
    BritishChap007 wrote:
    Mitt Rmbey is the only choice. He is a brilliant man
    May I assume English is not your first language? /:)

    @BritishChap007: You sir are also a brilliant man! I agree with you 100%, if Mitt Romney is not elected President, then those who did not vote for him will soon be sorry and regret that they did not make the wiser decision!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    robboadam wrote:
    People from outside the UK seem to think that if they walk around London, they've seen the UK. If you really wanna know what the UK is like, go to Cornwall, the Lake District, Scotland, even other cities like Birmingham and Manchester.

    London does not equal the UK......fortunately.
    Sadly, her time was limited!
  • BritishChap007BritishChap007
    Posts: 555
    00Beast wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    BritishChap007 wrote:
    Mitt Rmbey is the only choice. He is a brilliant man
    May I assume English is not your first language? /:)

    @BritishChap007: You sir are also a brilliant man! I agree with you 100%, if Mitt Romney is not elected President, then those who did not vote for him will soon be sorry and regret that they did not make the wiser decision!

    Forget the slang: Mitt Romney is the guy. It baffles me that anyone can see it any way else. America needs Mitt Romney.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Obama. Simply because, He's for education. I'm a college student and I have enough problems already and don't need Romney racking up my bills. I'm also voting for Obama because he's not focused on banning rights. It's America in 2012. Gay people have a right to get married. And rape victims have a right to abortion if they don't want their attacker's baby. How does giving the rich More money help me out? It doesn't. Romney is a bomb waiting to explode in America's face. Also Obama was responsible for ordering Bin Laden's death but everyone seems to forget that. Four more years of Obama please.
  • sirseanisbondsirseanisbond
    Posts: 2,189
    Murdock wrote:
    Obama. Simply because, He's for education. I'm a college student and I have enough problems already and don't need Romney racking up my bills. I'm also voting for Obama because he's not focused on banning rights. It's America in 2012. Gay people have a right to get married. And rape victims have a right to abortion if they don't want their attacker's baby. How does giving the rich More money help me out? It doesn't. Romney is a bomb waiting to explode in America's face. Also Obama was responsible for ordering Bin Laden's death but everyone seems to forget that. Four more years of Obama please.

    Absolute yes! How anyone could think Mitt Romney would make a good president frightens me. The man is a crooked, greedy, dishonest, flip-floping asshole who should go back to being the CEO of Bain Capital where he belongs, destroying US businesses and sending them to China.
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