Your Favorite 'One and Done' Composer...Poll

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Comments

  • edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I like the DN soundtrack. It sets up the sunny look of the film pretty well.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    BAIN123 - You like Brosnan, TWINE, Arnold, DN's soundtrack... We will never agree on anything !!
  • Posts: 11,189
    well we did agree that the Bond series needs to lighten up somewhat.
  • I strongly disagree, thelordflasheart - Miami International is extremely horrible. It's devoid of everything, just random notes and sounds for 12 minutes. It is one of the worse tracks composed for the last 20 years, non-Bond scores included. It's track like this where Arnold should never have been hired, and is not worthy of being called a composer. Even I can do better music than Miami International. This is why I rank CR at 21/of 22, with a note of 1.5/10.
    DaltonCraig007 - I understand what you mean; I was referring to the opening of Miami International. That would be the nice exciting sweep which in the film would start with Bond specifying cavier "for one", carrying through the shot of the DB5 speeding away and then switching to the cab in Miami. Again, it's like the parts of Blunt Insturment that I mentioned - they're exciting and contain bits of the main theme.

    I think that certain parts of CR's score would be boring to listen to on an iPod but they work well in the film. I think that the problem with Miami International is that it's covering 12 minutes of film. A good filmmaker knows that silence can be as effective as dialogue or music (especially in a suspense scene) but they chose to cover this whole sequence with music. I do like that (like African Rundown) it has a nice build to it over time but yes, I agree that it's not an outstanding piece of music.

  • Posts: 4,762
    I just finished listening to several of the Bond Movie soundtracks, and I have to say that Bill Conti really proved himself on "Runaway". I've always thought that worked well with the ski chase in Cortina. Also, I'll give props to George Martin for a great James Bond Theme re-make in LALD.
  • Posts: 2,599
    well we did agree that the Bond series needs to lighten up somewhat.
    I don't agree with that. :)
  • Bond 77 is one of my favorite Bond tracks of all time. That makes me a little bias towards Martin Hamlisch. Bill Conti's score is better overall I'd have to got with that.
  • George Martin, easily! Definitely one of the highlights from Live and Let Die. :D

    2nd choice would be Michael Kamen, followed by Eric Serra!
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Conti, Serra, and Martin. In that order.

    David Arnold should just have stayed for one.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    David Arnold should just have stayed for one.
    Wow, I'll have to screen cap this post! ;)

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    It's Largo's Shark !! :-bd
  • I've always really liked the Bill Conti score for FYEO. Dated? somewhat..but it's just so damn fun.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Tux and Shark in two days! Wow, what has the world come to?
  • edited June 2011 Posts: 6
    As I said before, Arnold just put music on film without attention to memorable melodies. All the other Bond composers produced beautiful scores that helped sell the films (especially with hit singles). It's a mystery why Arnold was hired and asked back, other than John Barry recommending him. Part of what made the Bond films great was the music. David Arnold's lackluster scores are pulling the franchise down into below-average territory. David Arnold is an untalented hack who must go for Bond 24!
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited June 2011 Posts: 348

    DaltonCraig007 - I understand what you mean; I was referring to the opening of Miami International. That would be the nice exciting sweep which in the film would start with Bond specifying cavier "for one", carrying through the shot of the DB5 speeding away and then switching to the cab in Miami.
    The opening with those variations on YKMN, is the only decent part of the cue. When Bond goes inside the Body Worlds exhibit, the music devolves into an extremely boring 11 minutes of generic ambiance, stock tone clusters, Bourne ostinato ripoffs that could be from an episode of CSI Miami, retreads of INDEPENDENCE DAY and STARGATE, and Alan Silvestri-lite militaristic rhythms.

    It makes African Rundown sound like one of the greatest action cues ever composed for screen.
    I think that certain parts of CR's score would be boring to listen to on an iPod
    From personal experience, that accounts for about 85% of the score.
    but they work well in the film.
    If they didn't, they have been rejected by Martin Campbell and the producers. It's more a question how well they work.
    A good filmmaker knows that silence can be as effective as dialogue or music (especially in a suspense scene) but they chose to cover this whole sequence with music.
    A good composer too. In what's called the spotting sessions, the directors, producers and composer decide where all the music will go, and of what nature it should be. Usually from there the he/she assembles a cue sheet, with very specific timings, and writes to that.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Eric Serra does not get enough credit for GoldenEye.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    When we first heard Serra's score, we were in the dark about what was to come. When Arnold pulled it off rather well with TND, we spat on Serra. But a few years later, when Arnold went in strange directions, it was time for redemption.

    I think Serra's score has found new praise because of what came after it. That said, I've always felt satisfied with the score as implemented in the film. I even like The Experience Of Love for the end titles. But there was a time when I was one of the very few. Now I'm glad to see this score receive some more positive comments. Some even want Serra back for another Bond score but I doubt he'd do that.

  • edited June 2011 Posts: 3,494
    The best "One and Done" composer is... Eric Serra. The most unique soundtrack in the franchise. The most Barry-esque soundtrack not from Barry - even Arnold is nowhere near Serra's score's quality. Truely one of the greatest score, musically speaking, of the franchise.
    My vote goes to Martin's LALD score. The funkiness just fits the presence of the predominantly black cast, and the love themes mirror the title theme in a most "Barry-esque" manner. Speaking of which... [...] I've explained to you already right from a ENGLISH dictionary what "esque" is defined as. Serra sounds nothing like Barry and never even tries to bring the title theme into play as a reference. Hamlisch and Conti also used variations of the title theme prominently in their scores. That is something Barry always did. [...]

    Mod edit: offensive comments removed.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2011 Posts: 15,718
    Please don't be rude. I have never insulted you.

    I have been in a music Conservatoire for the last 5 years, and been playing in an orchestra for the last 6 years, so I know what I'm talking about. Serra's soundtrack is much more musically complex than Arnold's (fact), in such a way that it is the closest non-Barry soundtrack in terms of musical complexity. Please try to understand my posts before puting words in my mouth I have never said.
  • Gentlemen, gentlemen...

    DaltonCraig007 raises an interesting point - there are different ways that people understand the meaning of "Barryesque", "sounds like Barry", "sounds Bond-y", etc.

    In my experience, which is anecdotal and not scientific, most people think of Barry's use of "wah-wah" horns and brass as the typical (or cliche, if you're so inclined) Barry sound or the "classic Bond sound". Think of Goldfinger especially. The thing is, that's just one part of Barry's scores but because it's so obvious and out-sized it's the easiest thing for the "general public" (again, just in my experience) to pick up on. So ANY type of music that adds a lot of that "wah wah" brass sounds very Bond-y to them - even if it's sub-standard, boring, or tuneless music. Think of how many low-grade TV shows have simply thrown in some horns to suggest Bond - that's the type of thing I mean.

    Listen to this piece from the first season of Alias, starting at around 1:30 - that's the type of thing I mean (not that it's tuneless, just that it's going for that classic Bond sound with the horns). And to clarify, I really like Giacchino and think he could do a good job with Bond - just tone down the horns! He did a wonderful job with Alias and I'd love to see what he could do with a full orchestra (I never watched Lost).



    My personal definition of a Barryesque sound is one that has a lush, orchestral sound to it and uses strong melodies (and not very many) to establish a distinct personality for the film. What's interesting to me when listening to some of Barry's tracks is how simple they can be, although they "call back" to the main theme or title song. His use of lietmotifs is wonderful, and his melodies memorable. Just adding brass onto a forgettable melody doesn't make it sound Bond-y in my opinion - it just makes it sound like a cheesy knockoff. And having too many different "themes" or melodies in a film (hello, David Arnold) dilutes the sense of personality to a film - there's no strong identity, just several weak ones.

    And then there are people who have studied music and can break the "Barryesque" sound down into the nuts and bolts of how and why it works. So while some people may not think that two pieces of music are similar an educated person can hear the structural and thematic similarities.

    In other words, there are no wrong opinions :-)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    @thelordflasheart - agree ! Arnold's horns is quite reminscent of the Barry sound, but Serra's musical complexity is also reminescent of Barry.

    IMO, I prefer strong melodies, that can be different from the 'Barry sound', than just trying to emulate the Barry sound, without thinking of making musically complex cues.
  • @thelordflasheart - agree ! Arnold's horns is quite reminscent of the Barry sound, but Serra's musical complexity is also reminescent of Barry.

    IMO, I prefer strong melodies, that can be different from the 'Barry sound', than just trying to emulate the Barry sound, without thinking of making musically complex cues.
    FINALLY! Now we are back on common ground when we can agree. Thank you Lord Flasheart =D>

    Arnold's orchestration I also feel is more reminiscent of the Barry sound. As far as complexity DC, I've told you before that I agree with you regarding Arnold's lack of the same. I regret having to say what I did, but it's very frustrating when I present you a valid argument and you seem to disregard the points I made. I'm glad Lord F was able to get you to recognize what I've been trying to tell you. Anyway that's what you get with Arnold. It's obvious he idolizes Barry, hence why he comes up with melodies that pay homage to him that are not limited to his Bond catalog. But as it's been often said, he's not Barry and no one is. I also agree that on a level of complexity, Serra easily exceeds Arnold. But that really isn't hard to do as I could name many fine composers who fit that bill.

    To me, Serra doesn't deliver the sounds that make a Bond movie, but they would work better for a Bourne or some other spy-type thriller where people don't have the same expectations. It's unfamiliar to my ears in a Bond context, which I feel should be the primary concern of any composer who does a Bond movie, and as a composer myself my ears hear a better understanding of the style and flair that Barry brought to these movies from most of the other one-off composers. Yet in the same exact movie, the Turner/Bono/Edge theme collaboration is right out of the Barry songbook and it works. Serra would have been better served to play off of the main theme but in all fairness, he may not have been aware of it when he composed the soundtrack.

    John Barry's greatest contribution to the Bond films, in all it's obvious musical brilliance, is that he established a musical identity for the character. The "Bond Sound" as it were. Straying too far from that identity is never a good idea. Those who do will always fail the legacy the master left to us.

    Sir Henry




  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    So, Sir Henry, a simple question - do you prefer a great score, but that doesn't sound like the 'Bond Sound'... or a mediocre/passable/OK soundtrack, but that is reminescent of the Bound Sound ? Do you prefer the Bond sound without much musical greatness, or the musical greatness without the Bond sound ??
  • So, Sir Henry, a simple question - do you prefer a great score, but that doesn't sound like the 'Bond Sound'... or a mediocre/passable/OK soundtrack, but that is reminiscent of the Bound Sound ? Do you prefer the Bond sound without much musical greatness, or the musical greatness without the Bond sound ??
    Not really that simple of a question for me DC, but I'll do my best to answer it in terms as simple as the question. For any movie other than a Bond film, the musician and composer in me would obviously prefer a great score with some musical complexity, because I'm not expecting the Bond sound created by Barry. But for a Bond film, I want the Bond sound and the person in the composer's chair who understands it. As long as I get enough semblance of that, I'm not one to be overly picky or critical of every single shortcoming. Arnold, for whatever failings he has, is a Barry disciple and gets the sound. I like his melodies and how his uses the string and brass sections in a similar manner as Barry. I don't mind that he apes Barry at all. If they can get someone who can do it better, that's fine with me. If they keep him, that's OK too. Barry's personal recommendation to carry on the sound carries more than enough weight with me.
  • Posts: 202
    I'd rank them as:

    1. SKYFALL
    2. LIVE AND LET DIE
    3. GOLDENEYE
    4. THE SPY WHO LOVED ME
    5. FOR YOUR EYES ONLY
    6. LICENCE TO KILL
    7. DR. NO
  • Posts: 414
    If Thomas Newman doesn't end up coming back for the next one, his "one and done" for Skyfall deserves talking about. Kamen's score for LTK isn't half bad, either. But most scores not written by either John Barry or David Arnold suffer for it. The 70's films where the producers went for a disco sound rather than Barry's lush orchestrations particularly.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    LALD is clearly the best IMO.
  • Posts: 414
    chrisisall wrote:
    LALD is clearly the best IMO.

    Of course! This may be a backhanded compliment to George Martin, but the score fits so well I always forget it's not John Barry.

  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    I really like Bill Conti's FYEO score. The track 'Submarine' is one of my favourite Bond tracks (ever since I heard it as a kid on the montage at the beginning of the 1987 'Happy Anniversary 007' doco)

    I also have a love-hate feeling toward Michael Kamen's LTK score. Sometimes it is amazing - like 'Licence Revoked' other times I find it kind of shrieking. But his scores for lethal weapon and die hard are like this too and i love the Mexican influence on LTK,
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    SlyFox007 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    LALD is clearly the best IMO.

    Of course! This may be a backhanded compliment to George Martin, but the score fits so well I always forget it's not John Barry.

    I think I might have to vote for Newman (except hes not on the poll).

    Monty Norman - Please. That finale of Dr No when the control room is blowing up is just copied and pasted from a 30s B movie. IMO Barry should get equal credit for the Bond theme but I'm not a high court judge am I so its Monty who gets all the plaudits in the eyes of the law despite Cubby and Harry gettting rid of him after one film even though he delivered the greatest piece of cinema music ever.

    Martin - Good though LALD is how much of the score relies on the theme tune? About 85% and the rest is the Bond theme - one was written by Mcartney and the other by Monty (Barry). Difficult to say how much George actually contributes himself but as it borrows so heavily on the title song its difficult to say its that much of an original score. I know he worked with Macca on the theme song so maybe I'm being harsh but life is cruel - sorry George.

    Hamlisch - Well Bond '77 is great in the film but bloody awful listened to on its own. Nobody Does it Better is a great song but overall the score seems rather patchy to me.

    Conti - I dont mind it but it does seem to have dated quite badly and these days its pretty cheesy.

    Kamen - I find this pretty dire. Bascially Die Hard but not as good and with the Bond theme constantly repeated with that annoying change of timing of a couple of notes at the end of a phrase he decided was the way he was going to do it. It works for the GB as it leads into the film but then everytime he plays the Bond theme after that he does it which is not what Monty (Barry) wrote.

    Serra - The PTS I can live with and the scene on the beach isnt bad but the low points of the GB, the car chase and the (original) tank chase outweigh the good. And as for the end credits song.....

    Newman - The PTS is pretty decent and the bit on the yacht and Tennyson are damn good also. Shame we only got one bit where he wove the SF theme into the score. I quite like the horns for M at the start with Mallory and when she goes. I think he might well take the crown of best of the one shot musical Lazenbys.
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