Seriously now- which is worse, TWINE or DAD

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  • Posts: 4,813
    lol I forgot about the 'Jinx Dive'- that looked just as bad as the parachute surfing
    Ugh... one wonders what the hell they were thinking...
  • Posts: 212
    This is actually a very tough question. They're both so bad that it's really difficult to figure out which is worse. The sad thing is that both films have a pretty solid foundation that they're built on top of, as the setups to both films are pretty good. As for which is worse, I'd probably have to go with TWINE. DAD at least had a very solid opening, with Bond being captured, tortured, and then having to escape MI6 custody and go rogue. TWINE, while I appreciate it's efforts to bring Bond back to a more serious type of film, it's not really doing anything we haven't seen before, which is enough to put DAD over the top.
  • edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    TWINE.

    Unlike DAD, it ain't fun or imaginative. Just stilted, dull and worthy. Like a Merchant Ivory production.

    As I said before, TWINE may have been melodramatic in places but at least it tried to take itself more seriously
    That's its mistake. It can't laugh at itself, so the audience has to do it.
    Hmm....I think the audience genuinely laughed A LOT more AT a certain scene in DAD.
  • j7wildj7wild Suspended
    Posts: 823
    I have to say pretty much a close tie! both sucks!

    I will always consider Brosnan a 2 BAD (as in no good, poor) Bond movies guy!

    Connery and Dalton and Moore and Craig have not had a Bond movie I would consider FULLY BAD!

    Moore had one marginally bad but not bad enough to earn a full BAD Bond movie and that's LALD!
  • Both are examples of missed opportunities to make a classic Bond film.DAD is far and away worse than TWINE.

    DAD has to rank as one of the worst in the series. It had potential but the bad CGI and awful dialogue took away any chance of this being a good Bond film. TWINE at least had a solid plot and interesting cast of characters and one of the best villains of the series, Elektra. It was let down by some poor cinematography and the lack of development of Christmas and a very odd casting choice.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,585
    Pierce Brosnan gave a sincere, thoughtful performance in TWINE, rounding off his Bond characterisation with plenty of theatrical hand waving and snappy delivery of his dialogue. It was his idea of great acting.

    Sadly Michael Apted in his attempt to make the film as melodramatic as possible, sucked the very life blood out of the film. He must have looked at FRWL and thought 'I want to recreate that!' without realising how crucial the editing, music, story telling, and characterisation is. Just because Brozzer does lots of moody glances over his shoulder doesn't make the film involving.
    And when Electra asks him 'How do you stay alive?' He replies 'I take pleasure in great beauty'. And Electra seems to accept that gobbledy gook as a sufficient answer!

    The action is good in places, but the parahawk sequence crashes and burns - just like the parahawks themselves in fact.

    I have no issue with Denise Richards (why shouldn't a Nuclear scientist be beautiful as well?), any more than any other Bond girl. And she convinced me more than Jill St John did as a smuggler and Barbara Bach as a top Russian agent, that's for sure.

    And Sophie in the red dress. Hubba!

    DAD is, as everyone says, a film of two halfs. Much of the early sequences are quirky and lively. The PTS is as good as TWINE's, the scenes in the Hong Kong hotel are funny and entertaining, the Cuba scenes start so well. It all seems to go a little wrong when Jinx appears, although not because of Jinx. Her smutty dialogue with Bond is particularly embarrassing, as is their love scene.
    We still have a few good scenes though(Bond's treatment of the South African drugs man, the sword fight with Graves, a few bits in the ice castle with Miranda Frost.)

    The problem is, the car chase is endless, the hotrod business and the surfing are simply dreadful, and the climatic 40 minutes turned my very soul to mush. When I first saw it with 20 minutes left I remember sinking in to my seat in despear realising it had all gone terribly wrong.

    Still, on balance I can watch DAD without clock watching or stealing a nap every ten minutes. At least it floats on air. TWINE just drags itself through the mud.

  • Wow, been quite a long time since I've posted here. Perhaps the "change" turned me off initially. Anyways, DAD by a mile.

    I've never really understood the hate for TWINE. I find it to be a middle of the pack decent flick. Granted it has it's negatives (Denise Richards and Renard) but i've never found it "soapy" as much as i've tried. It sits behind TND and GE (both of which I like a lot) in my Brosnan table but it's still a 7/10. Hang me if you want to now...

    DAD on the other hand...part of only 2 bond movies I don't like and find hard to sit through. It just does absolutely nothing for me. The CGI is bad, the bond girls are bad, the villains are bad, the plot is a weird mixture of "we're trying to be really serious but ultra campy at the same time" and the locations remind me of the horrors seen before in Batman and Robin. Most strangely tho, I find it dull and uninteresting. With all of it's OTT gadgets and weirdness you'd think it would atleast be entertaining in a way..but it just isn't. I find it an absolute bore to sit through and despite a decent 30 or so first minutes..once we hit iceland, it just feels like a bad Spy Kids sequel.
  • edited June 2011 Posts: 15
    In DAD I can't stand the CGI surfboard/parachute/big wave/ice cliff stunt I HAVE to ffwd it every time I watch the film. Not to mention there are too many so called 'tributes' to previous 007 films.

    I think the two films both have the same problem in a way: The back up bond girl is better than the lead Bond girl. Rosamond Pike is better than Halle Berry and Sophie Marceau eclipses Denise Richards who runs round like a cheerleader on a high, who's stolen Lara Croft's wardrobe & a copy of 'Nuclear Physics For Dummies'.

    But with a gun to my head I would have to say DAD is worse. If they had cast say Uma Thurman instead of Denise Richards, it would have been a very good film http://www.rexwallpapers.com/wallpaper/Uma-thurman-4/

    Far more believable nuclear physicist
  • Posts: 406
    TWINEs a great film I love it, been a while since I saw DAD but got a few free days and I'll watch Brosnans films then but I' don't think its that great once jinx appears
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723


  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,585
    This first scene in the YTube sequence above is a good example of Brozzer in full actor-ish flourish, complete with all that hand waving.
    Most confusing though is how Electra seems to convince Bond he was wrong to suspect her. She explains away all his suspicions and he looks confused as if he suddenly realises that his argument about Stokholm Syndrome is off the mark. He appears to believe her and wants to go with her.
    Then when M turns up he's telling her he suspects Electra all over again. It's a flaw in Brosnan's performance. No logic to it. Just Brozzer desperate to cram in as much emotional response as possible.
    He was actually much better in DAD. There was an actor who knew the game was up. As such he relaxed and gave a better performance.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    This first scene in the YTube sequence above is a good example of Brozzer in full actor-ish flourish, complete with all that hand waving.

    :-)) :-))
  • Posts: 4,813
    It's funny to watch it with the sound down
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited June 2011 Posts: 348
    Hmm....I think the audience genuinely laughed A LOT more AT a certain scene in DAD.
    In the cinema I went to (Stratford East Picture House), most folks were more :O than laughing. Sort of like the audience in the original SPRINGTIME FOR HITLER.
  • What's interesting to me in that clip is how good Marceau is, and how...not Brosnan is. I sometimes wondered if Brosnan was trying to overcompensate for his thin, reedy voice by "pushing" too much in certain scenes. That's why I always said that my biggest complaint was that he was "playing" Bond instead of "being" Bond. I did find though that he got a little more comfortable in each film.

    "He was actually much better in DAD. There was an actor who knew the game was up."

    NicNac, can you explain what you mean? At the time of filming Brosnan didn't know that DAD was to be his last film. What are you referring to by Brosnan knowing "the game was up"?
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,585

    NicNac, can you explain what you mean? At the time of filming Brosnan didn't know that DAD was to be his last film. What are you referring to by Brosnan knowing "the game was up"?
    I should really have said that there is someone performing as if he knew the act was up. He pulled the acting stops out in TWINE, but in later interviews appeared less than thrilled with the results (simliarly to TND). I felt in DAD he was like a man who knew he had failed to nail Bond and as a result let go a little. Relaxed.

    It's a personal observation, I have less than no inside information. :)
  • Posts: 7,653
    I would say QoS, sucks so hard I consider it the black hole of the franchise. ;-)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited June 2011 Posts: 24,272
    I would say QoS, sucks so hard I consider it the black hole of the franchise. ;-)
    You mean its gravity is nearly infinite? ;;)
  • Posts: 533
    Actually, I like TWINE a lot. And DAD is okay, except for the Iceland sequences. However, I tend to view GF and DAF as the two worst Bond films.
  • edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I've always considered TWINE a pretty decent entry myself and its around the #10 mark in my list. I know a lot of people here hate it but its certainly been one I've returned to watch many times over the last 12 years. I admire the attempt at a deeper, more grown up story, which I genuinely found intriguing. In fact I think I prefer the film to TND - there is more going for it. However it still feels like a Bond movie IMO - it has an element of glamour (the expensive looking costumes), lighter relief (I remember the whole audience in the cinema cheered when the clampers got drenched), coherent action on the whole (esp the PTS) and, of course, Q in his final scenes.

    As for that scene on YT (one that Ive seen many times) I suppose it does have a "television" feel to it but is that really suprising considering Apted began his career in TV. Personally Brosnan's performance hasn't bothered me the way it has with some people.

    The way I saw the above scene was as follows: Bond always suspected Electra but wasn't yet certain. He backed off doing anything further as his job was still to protect her. He also still had a certain level of sympathy for the woman. However after the whole pipeline incident his suspicions were confirmed.

    Do I consider TWINE one of the greatest? No. However I do enjoy watching it.
  • Posts: 2,491
    i still dont get how this two are in competition? TWINE should not ever be compared to DAD cause it is much much much better movie.end of story
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    i still dont get how this two are in competition? TWINE should not ever be compared to DAD cause it is much much much better movie.end of story
    0/10 and 3/10 is indeed a large difference dragonsky, but both are terrible still ;)
  • Posts: 2,491
    ok i dont want to start arguing about brosnan movies especially TWINE all i have to say is everyone have his own oppinion :) and haha 0/10 i bet you would recomend DAD only to your biggest enemy?
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    haha 0/10 i bet you would recomend DAD only to your biggest enemy?
    I would never seek this low ;)
  • Posts: 11,189
    Id give DAD a 4/10. Wait Luds...let me explain...purely because of a rather promising first half and a good, comfortable performance from Pierce.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    @BAIN123 I'll give you that it was by far Brosnan's best performance in his 4 films.
  • edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    So then a tad higer than 0/10?? Maybe a 1 perhaps? ;)
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    It's still, eh, incomprehensible to me that it took Brosnan four films to do something right and actually go somewhere with the role. I mean you can't blame it on the scripts, he was at his best in the worst scripted of his films, so how did this come about and take so long to get there?

    I really don't get it.
  • Posts: 251
    Well, count yourself in the minority, as there sure was a lot of fans of this movie when it was released, and it didn`t stop em coming back for more with DAD did it? Sure, you could say people always show up for Bond films....Brosnan seems to be the Bond to hate here.
    Twine was a great move on from TND, which was a great move on from GE. They dropped the ball with DAD, they dropped the ball with QOS...this happens from time to time with a franchise like Bond. Actualy, there isn`t a franchise like Bond!
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    So then a tad higer than 0/10?? Maybe a 1 perhaps? ;)
    Sure ;) I've written many times in the past that there are still decent thing sin DAD, such as the Q scene, what's always baffled me is how the movie goes from weak but passable to absolute travesty as soon as jinx arrives on screen.
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