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Alec Trevelyan V Raoul Silva

LeChiffreLeChiffre
edited November 2012 in Bond Movies Posts: 1,548
As a big fan of Javier Bardem's classic (I think we can now agree) villian I was thinking how he would fare against another embittered ex-MI6 agent, 006 aka Alec Trevelyan in one of these random match-ups that are always fun to ponder over. Personally I think Silva would win quite convincingly, mentally if not physically as well. Plus at least Silva keeps his own accent and doesn't deviate between posh Southerner and Northen England that 006 does! (as a northerner myself I just feel it just doesn't fit well in a Bond film).
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Comments

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    It'd be a rather close call physically, but I think Silva is quite a deal more intelligent than Trevalyan.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Silva just edges it for me. Trevelayn is a top 5 villian though (only thing I don't like is how Sean Bean uses that put on posh accent, I'd have preferred it if Bean had used his normal accent).
  • RisicoRisico
    Posts: 97
    Lots of ways to look at this! Trevelyan's got Double-O combat training, so while Silva's a big guy, I think Trevelyan would win in a fight. But Silva's a cyberterrorist who can do almost anything, and OO6 had to hire Boris to do the computer stuff for him.

    Dramatically, OO6 is the more awesome idea for a villain, but in terms of execution, Silva was a more successful attempt at an embittered ex-MI6 character. OO6 never really came off the page, in my opinion.

    And in terms of performance, I love old Sean Bean but Javier Bardem is an actor who is, to me, on a whole other level. He's one of the best actors currently living.
  • JJPMurphyJJPMurphy
    Posts: 68
    Travelyan had bigger plans, better training, better build and was far more skilled. Silva is somehow scarier but Travelyan would own his ass in a fight and Silva would enjoy that :)
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    Silva would chew him up and spit him out.
  • 0iker00iker0
    edited November 2012 Posts: 501
    Trevelyan might beat him in a fight, but before beating him you have to catch him. And 006 would not get even close to Silva if Silva didn't want to. So Silva must it be.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Silva for me!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Are people forgetting that what ever training Alec got to become a 00 agent, Silva would have received the same/similar training? Both villains are great imo but I do feel more should have been done with Alec given the relationship dynamic between he and Bond. As for Silva, his beef wasn't even with Bond but he was a devastating menace. He crippled MI6 with the click of a mouse. Silva gets my vote.
  • Zorin61Zorin61
    edited November 2012 Posts: 418
    Both are great villains - but of the two, i'd go for Silva because i found his character creepy and terrifying even before we got to see him, and when we did, he became a classic 'in your face' Bond villain..
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I think Silvas first scene on the island could go down as being on a par with the GF laser room in terms of Bond/villain confrontations.

    And also dont be so sure about Sean Bean taking him down. Javiers quite a big guy and this line 'you werent half the agent I was' suggests he can also get a bit handy when he needs to. After all he made pretty short work of the guards when unarmed as he was escaping the Hannibal Lecter cell.
  • oo7oo7
    Posts: 1,068
    I really must point out silva at no point in that film was named as a double o agent. he was a agent much like stangeways or charles grey(the man in japan). Silva's main motivation seemed to be wanting to get revenge against M over standard operating procedure.

    I think the writing on Skyfall being a sort of mesh of ideas such as moneypenny being reintroduced when bond there was already a moneypenny under dench in 94 leaves me wondering how seriously as a villain silva can be taken. Unlike the goals of past bond villains there seems to be little monetary gain from his exploits or political gain although he says he can do both he does not really bother. he is very much a thin character as it all boils down to him not dying when he was meant to over the operating procedure.
    If they had of tied him as a part of Quantum and another fa cite of that agency and proved he was ACTIVELY crippling governments or SYPHONING money then he might have been another head of state in the Quantum/spectre story.
    Alec had a deep background and a story that set up loathing for both goverment and banking which he lead him to his plot. mixed alongside the already given storys fleming had given for 006(he was a comando and had some dealings with goodnight) this leads him to be a more interesting character.
    silva im affraid comes under the problem of being not of the fleming cannon nor standing out as someone who has potential of reaching a historic bond villain status.
    I do aggree his first appearance is well shot, but for me there is no depth to how silva manages to track bond to skyfall lodge unless kincade had let something slip. mix that with there being no real outcome for his goons(its not as if he can promise them a position or such when he has for filled the mission and he is not even trying to lie about the outcome so why anyone would follow him is beyond me?)
    anyway time will tell if he is as memorable as blofeld or a mere ladder rung like renard
  • myworldisenoughmyworldisenough
    Posts: 1,143
    Taking all villainous qualities in account, on balance I would go with Silva.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    oo7 wrote:
    I really must point out silva at no point in that film was named as a double o agent. he was a agent much like stangeways or charles grey(the man in japan). Silva's main motivation seemed to be wanting to get revenge against M over standard operating procedure.

    I think the writing on Skyfall being a sort of mesh of ideas such as moneypenny being reintroduced when bond there was already a moneypenny under dench in 94 leaves me wondering how seriously as a villain silva can be taken. Unlike the goals of past bond villains there seems to be little monetary gain from his exploits or political gain although he says he can do both he does not really bother. he is very much a thin character as it all boils down to him not dying when he was meant to over the operating procedure.
    If they had of tied him as a part of Quantum and another fa cite of that agency and proved he was ACTIVELY crippling governments or SYPHONING money then he might have been another head of state in the Quantum/spectre story.
    Alec had a deep background and a story that set up loathing for both goverment and banking which he lead him to his plot. mixed alongside the already given storys fleming had given for 006(he was a comando and had some dealings with goodnight) this leads him to be a more interesting character.
    silva im affraid comes under the problem of being not of the fleming cannon nor standing out as someone who has potential of reaching a historic bond villain status.
    I do aggree his first appearance is well shot, but for me there is no depth to how silva manages to track bond to skyfall lodge unless kincade had let something slip. mix that with there being no real outcome for his goons(its not as if he can promise them a position or such when he has for filled the mission and he is not even trying to lie about the outcome so why anyone would follow him is beyond me?)
    anyway time will tell if he is as memorable as blofeld or a mere ladder rung like renard

    Some your points have a modicum of validity such as the script and character development being thinner than first appears. I think Javier makes up for the weaknesses in both (because all the adulation notwithstanding SF is not perfect) with his performance.

    Some of your other points are completely nonsensical however such as claiming that Alec is a better villain because he is part of the Fleming canon - what because Fleming mentioned an agent called 006 in one sentence of one book? Might as well call Major Dexter Smythe a more valid character than Kamal Khan and Orlov because we see his picture in the film and he was in Flemings original story.

    And why are Silvas goons following him? Err for money obviously. He states that he does a variety of crimes for the highest bidder which presumably funds his private army and vendetta with M.

    Are all the blokes in jumpsuits working for Blofeld and Stromberg really comitted to starting world war three or are they there because they get a nice wedge for their time? So why single out Silvas goons sounds if only to boost your weak argument? Hate to disapppoint you but every single person on Alecs side in GE from Xenia to Ouroumov to Boris to the bloke that cleans the bogs in the control room is only there for money. None of them give a toss about Alecs beef with England and his parents topping themselves.

    Goons are goons and have always been so. They are motivated by cash so why on earth you imagine Silvas goons might have dreams of promotion or some ideological reason for following him is beyond me.
  • oo7oo7
    Posts: 1,068
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    oo7 wrote:
    I really must point out silva at no point in that film was named as a double o agent. he was a agent much like stangeways or charles grey(the man in japan). Silva's main motivation seemed to be wanting to get revenge against M over standard operating procedure.

    I think the writing on Skyfall being a sort of mesh of ideas such as moneypenny being reintroduced when bond there was already a moneypenny under dench in 94 leaves me wondering how seriously as a villain silva can be taken. Unlike the goals of past bond villains there seems to be little monetary gain from his exploits or political gain although he says he can do both he does not really bother. he is very much a thin character as it all boils down to him not dying when he was meant to over the operating procedure.
    If they had of tied him as a part of Quantum and another fa cite of that agency and proved he was ACTIVELY crippling governments or SYPHONING money then he might have been another head of state in the Quantum/spectre story.
    Alec had a deep background and a story that set up loathing for both goverment and banking which he lead him to his plot. mixed alongside the already given storys fleming had given for 006(he was a comando and had some dealings with goodnight) this leads him to be a more interesting character.
    silva im affraid comes under the problem of being not of the fleming cannon nor standing out as someone who has potential of reaching a historic bond villain status.
    I do aggree his first appearance is well shot, but for me there is no depth to how silva manages to track bond to skyfall lodge unless kincade had let something slip. mix that with there being no real outcome for his goons(its not as if he can promise them a position or such when he has for filled the mission and he is not even trying to lie about the outcome so why anyone would follow him is beyond me?)
    anyway time will tell if he is as memorable as blofeld or a mere ladder rung like renard

    Some your points have a modicum of validity such as the script and character development being thinner than first appears. I think Javier makes up for the weaknesses in both (because all the adulation notwithstanding SF is not perfect) with his performance.

    Some of your other points are completely nonsensical however such as claiming that Alec is a better villain because he is part of the Fleming canon - what because Fleming mentioned an agent called 006 in one sentence of one book? Might as well call Major Dexter Smythe a more valid character than Kamal Khan and Orlov because we see his picture in the film and he was in Flemings original story.

    And why are Silvas goons following him? Err for money obviously. He states that he does a variety of crimes for the highest bidder which presumably funds his private army and vendetta with M.

    Are all the blokes in jumpsuits working for Blofeld and Stromberg really comitted to starting world war three or are they there because they get a nice wedge for their time? So why single out Silvas goons sounds if only to boost your weak argument? Hate to disapppoint you but every single person on Alecs side in GE from Xenia to Ouroumov to Boris to the bloke that cleans the bogs in the control room is only there for money. None of them give a toss about Alecs beef with England and his parents topping themselves.

    Goons are goons and have always been so. They are motivated by cash so why on earth you imagine Silvas goons might have dreams of promotion or some ideological reason for following him is beyond me.

    dont get angry now. I just states that they found a mentionable character, someone bond had known in the books and they merely expanded him into a bad guy. now 006 was after the fall of the uk so no doubt his men had invested wisely knowing the outcome of this.
    Silva did nothing, he said he was out for hire for the highest bidder but he had no part in anything mentioned outside of the leak of mi6 names and a few murders connected to m and mi6. my point his his plot does not lead his men to personal gain in a political nor financial standpoint. all they could do is die for him. Alec had picked up a measure of soviet hands, keen to embrace not only the destruction of the uk but also be profitable in doing so.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited November 2012 Posts: 4,399
    oo7 wrote:
    I just states that they found a mentionable character, someone bond had known in the books and they merely expanded him into a bad guy.

    i never connected the reference... simply because, at the way the other Double-O agents are knocked off - who is assume that it's the same 006.... maybe in the book, 006's name is Bill Smith who grew up in Liverpool and loves gardening..... i think making that connection that Alec is the same character offhandedly mentioned in a book once, is a BIG stretch.

  • oo7oo7
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,068
    was 008 not bill?Edit, 008 was bill as mentioned in goldfinger. I think an attempt to name 006 was made in a money penny diary but Fleming left him unnamed. I would be more inclined to go with the alec story than that.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    oo7 wrote:
    was 008 not bill?Edit, 008 was bill as mentioned in goldfinger. I think an attempt to name 006 was made in a money penny diary but Fleming left him unnamed. I would be more inclined to go with the alec story than that.

    i just made the name up to prove a point.. lol

  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles
    Posts: 864
    Found this advert in the back of the Telegraph:

    Goons wanted:
    We are looking for a team of highly-trained professional goons to assist in the humiliation and eventual assassination of the head of the British Secret Service.
    You will be expected to be available at all times of day or night and to have a good knowledge of UK police procedure. Knowledge and experience of the Tube and the ability to sail a yacht preferable but not necessary.
    Those with qualms about killing women, civilians or police officers in cold blood need not apply.
    You will be fed and housed on a luxurious island, complete with your choice of discarded bicycle.
    A generous reward package includes: Absolutely no hope of promotion or employment after the successful termination of the target.
  • SuperheroSithSuperheroSith SE London
    Posts: 578
    Raoul Silva, by far. He was in the Secret Service and is far more intelligent than 006 so he would win.
  • ThepastykidThepastykid
    Posts: 553
    Silva all the way. Trevelyan was promising, but Sean Bean's version of a posh British accent was hilarious..For England Jems?
  • UmustbjockingUmustbjocking
    Posts: 83
    oo7 wrote:
    I really must point out silva at no point in that film was named as a double o agent. he was a agent much like stangeways or charles grey(the man in japan). Silva's main motivation seemed to be wanting to get revenge against M over standard operating procedure.

    I think the writing on Skyfall being a sort of mesh of ideas such as moneypenny being reintroduced when bond there was already a moneypenny under dench in 94 leaves me wondering how seriously as a villain silva can be taken. Unlike the goals of past bond villains there seems to be little monetary gain from his exploits or political gain although he says he can do both he does not really bother. he is very much a thin character as it all boils down to him not dying when he was meant to over the operating procedure.
    If they had of tied him as a part of Quantum and another fa cite of that agency and proved he was ACTIVELY crippling governments or SYPHONING money then he might have been another head of state in the Quantum/spectre story.
    Alec had a deep background and a story that set up loathing for both goverment and banking which he lead him to his plot. mixed alongside the already given storys fleming had given for 006(he was a comando and had some dealings with goodnight) this leads him to be a more interesting character.
    silva im affraid comes under the problem of being not of the fleming cannon nor standing out as someone who has potential of reaching a historic bond villain status.
    I do aggree his first appearance is well shot, but for me there is no depth to how silva manages to track bond to skyfall lodge unless kincade had let something slip. mix that with there being no real outcome for his goons(its not as if he can promise them a position or such when he has for filled the mission and he is not even trying to lie about the outcome so why anyone would follow him is beyond me?)
    anyway time will tell if he is as memorable as blofeld or a mere ladder rung like renard
    There is no need to state the obvious: Sylva was as stated, a remarkable agent, he confirms his status as being mommy's favorite in the past, and goes on with, James are you trying to remember your training? etc. and She sent you after me knowing you're not ready, to the cyanide capsule that he had. The two survivors this is what she made us, is quite clear.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited November 2012 Posts: 3,274
    Trevelyan would win in a fistfight. More fit and agile.

    Bond vs Silva. Who would win? Guess we will never know.
  • oo7oo7
    Posts: 1,068
    Umustbjocking wrote:
    oo7 wrote:
    I really must point out silva at no point in that film was named as a double o agent. he was a agent much like stangeways or charles grey(the man in japan). Silva's main motivation seemed to be wanting to get revenge against M over standard operating procedure.

    I think the writing on Skyfall being a sort of mesh of ideas such as moneypenny being reintroduced when bond there was already a moneypenny under dench in 94 leaves me wondering how seriously as a villain silva can be taken. Unlike the goals of past bond villains there seems to be little monetary gain from his exploits or political gain although he says he can do both he does not really bother. he is very much a thin character as it all boils down to him not dying when he was meant to over the operating procedure.
    If they had of tied him as a part of Quantum and another fa cite of that agency and proved he was ACTIVELY crippling governments or SYPHONING money then he might have been another head of state in the Quantum/spectre story.
    Alec had a deep background and a story that set up loathing for both goverment and banking which he lead him to his plot. mixed alongside the already given storys fleming had given for 006(he was a comando and had some dealings with goodnight) this leads him to be a more interesting character.
    silva im affraid comes under the problem of being not of the fleming cannon nor standing out as someone who has potential of reaching a historic bond villain status.
    I do aggree his first appearance is well shot, but for me there is no depth to how silva manages to track bond to skyfall lodge unless kincade had let something slip. mix that with there being no real outcome for his goons(its not as if he can promise them a position or such when he has for filled the mission and he is not even trying to lie about the outcome so why anyone would follow him is beyond me?)
    anyway time will tell if he is as memorable as blofeld or a mere ladder rung like renard
    There is no need to state the obvious: Sylva was as stated, a remarkable agent, he confirms his status as being mommy's favorite in the past, and goes on with, James are you trying to remember your training? etc. and She sent you after me knowing you're not ready, to the cyanide capsule that he had. The two survivors this is what she made us, is quite clear.
    I was just saying he was a fixed field agent not a double o
  • blindspiritblindspirit
    Posts: 1
    Alec would destroy Silva, no contest.
  • BondVillainBondVillain
    Posts: 2
    Both are great villains in their own right and both actors gave outstanding performances, but I would have to give the edge to Alec Trevelyan.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited November 2012 Posts: 2,629
    Trevelyan gets the nod physically, but Silva is definitely the craftier of the two. Silva could come up with something to beat Trevelyan.

    If we've learned anything from Skyfall it's that 00 traitors make great villians.
  • jasonbournejasonbourne
    Posts: 82
    Silva is probably the least interesting of all villains played in any Bond movie so far. There were similarities in the plot between Goldeneye and Skyfall, but contrary to Skyfall, Goldeneye was in fact a very good movie. Goldeneye was Brosnans best film as James Bond, Skyfall is Craigs worst, the worst Bond movie since Licence to kill.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    I see why the pairing was made here, for sure. Both are former agents of MI6, and were obviously well-acquainted with M, although Trevelyan's relationship would have been with Robert Brown's M (think GE PTS-1986) and Silva's was with Judi Dench's M. Also, both were in some form and fashion betrayed by MI6 and have a deep hatred for England and its intelligence agency. Because GoldenEye is my favorite Bond movie, and due partly to the magnificent performance by Sean Bean as Alec "006" Trevelyan, I give the win to him.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    jasonbourne wrote:
    Silva is probably the least interesting of all villains played in any Bond movie so far. There were similarities in the plot between Goldeneye and Skyfall, but contrary to Skyfall, Goldeneye was in fact a very good movie. Goldeneye was Brosnans best film as James Bond, Skyfall is Craigs worst, the worst Bond movie since Licence to kill.

    What about Dominic Greene? He's the lamest James Bond villain ever.

  • SJK91SJK91
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,310
    Silva Silva Silva - The best James Bond villain ever.

    Though Sean Bean was good, also.
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