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A place for disappointed skyfall viewers

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  • BondBugBondBug
    Posts: 158
    I am amazed that the new Moneypenny's ethnicity would be an issue to anyone. Whoever brought that up is really clutching at straws to criticize this movie.
  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    acoppola wrote:
    True. I still thought it was scary for her and to fight her last battle in a place of the least technology was an interesting idea. It also nicely showed how much she trusted Bond with her life out of all the men she could have summoned to protect her in MI6.

    Well -- he was the one thing she got right. :D


  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BondBug wrote:
    I am amazed that the new Moneypenny's ethnicity would be an issue to anyone. Whoever brought that up is really clutching at straws to criticize this movie.

    Such is @DRESSED_TO_KILL's game. It is utterly pathetic, yet deeply amusing.
  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    BondBug wrote:
    I am amazed that the new Moneypenny's ethnicity would be an issue to anyone. Whoever brought that up is really clutching at straws to criticize this movie.

    Some people will try anything to try and justify their opinions, whether it puts them in a good light or not. Often, people don't even realize how they are arguing something might make them look in the eyes of those around them.

  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,276
    acoppola wrote:
    Silva was about to get M to shoot them both. Bond had no choice but to use the knife.

    And the scene was so sad that a prolonged duel with the villain would have interfererd with the emotion of the piece. This was adult cinema Bond and not DAD ending style Bond.
    Or FRWL-ending, or GF-ending, or TB-ending or.... you get the idea!
    If I want "adult cinema" I'll rent a Meryl Streep-movie!
  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    Zekidk wrote:
    Or FRWL-ending, or GF-ending, or TB-ending or.... you get the idea!
    If I want "adult cinema" I'll rent a Meryl Streep-movie!

    Perhaps you stepped out of the theater to hit the head and missed all the action just to get those characters to the church?

  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited November 2012 Posts: 3,276
    JimThompson45 wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:
    Or FRWL-ending, or GF-ending, or TB-ending or.... you get the idea!
    If I want "adult cinema" I'll rent a Meryl Streep-movie!

    Perhaps you stepped out of the theater to hit the head
    Perhaps I didn't!

    Lots of great Bond-movies have wonderful epilogue-scenes after the final climactic usual final action act. Bond was fighting Rosa Klebb in Venice, Goldfinger on the plane in GF, Tee Hee on the train in LALD and Gobinda in OP, just to name af few.

    I'm just disappointed of how Bond dealt with Silva and with the whole scene in chapel, which I thought could be handled better.

    Learn to live with it, dude.
  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    Zekidk wrote:
    Perhaps I didn't!

    So you just chose to ignore all that stuff, eh?

  • BondBugBondBug
    Posts: 158

    DRESSED_TO_KILL wrote:
    seroxx wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:
    DRESSED_TO_KILL wrote:
    Nothing about the ending finale felt original
    For me - Bond backstabbing Silva was very anticlimatic. Usually we see Bond confronting the villans and henchmen head on. They could have come up with something more orginal for a final showdown, IMO.

    It's a "50th celebration" quote from FYEO, the death of Kristatos, very similar situation. It's not original on purpose.


    see this is what I am talking about that upsets me ! instead of constantly referring or paying homage to past bond films in skyfail, the writers should have had fresh ideas and stayed completely clear of any past homage. The Everything or Nothing documentary should have been the tribute for the anniversary, not the actual Bond film. And @getafix I am glad you find my opinion on Severines death both odd and out of place. I felt like her death was completely rushed and done poorly in terms of writing and directing.

    There is no "should" about it. The team that made this movie have a license to do as they please. It is called art. In the same way that you could go and make your own movie or write your own screenplay (and you make it sound like you could do a much better job) it is up to you as the artist to do what you do and what approach you take, without having people say "well you should have done this and you should have done that!" They attempted to make a quality movie, and whilst you may not like it, critics and audiences LOVE it. So why "should" they do the things you are suggesting to a movie that you describe as "garbage?"

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    acoppola wrote:
    JimThompson45 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    Because she was away from home and not dying on her own terms. She was like a hunted animal being chased by the villain and his men relentlessly. She was powerless and ironic for a woman who commanded MI6.

    I think it was unthinkable to her how things went so wrong and the severe punishment of the past came down like a tonne of bricks. Her career or loss of it was the last thing she was worried about in the last act.
    Well, when push came to shove, she made a stand. There's a lot less dignified ways to go than that.

    True, but I doubt she expected it to go as far. She assumed earlier on that Bond would get Silva before things went out of control. And I assume she knew had she not made the stand, then Silva knew where she lived and how to find her. He knew how to hack into MI6 after all when he shows Bond's medical report.

    She shows true leadership in the sense of putting herself on the frontline and in harms way. What politician would do that?

    I love the "sad but not too sad" approach they made to her death aswell. Obviously the performances were powerful and the next shot of Craig on the roof was iconic but her leaving him that dog - especially after he'd mocked it earlier - was delightful.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @BAIN123, it's always nice to see a little pick-me-up soon (such as M leaving Bond the bulldog) after a tragic, heart felt scene, i.e. M's death.

    It was so sad seeing Bond succumb to tears and kiss her head after she passed away.
  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I love the "sad but not too sad" approach they made to her death aswell. Obviously the performances were powerful and the next shot of Craig on the roof was iconic but her leaving him that dog - especially after he'd mocked it earlier - was delightful.

    Indeed it was!

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    JimThompson45 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I love the "sad but not too sad" approach they made to her death aswell. Obviously the performances were powerful and the next shot of Craig on the roof was iconic but her leaving him that dog - especially after he'd mocked it earlier - was delightful.

    Indeed it was!

    I'm not suprised you enjoyed it too ;)
  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'm not suprised you enjoyed it too ;)

    LOL! Yeah, not much of a shock there, eh? :\">
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited November 2012 Posts: 12,837
    I like how the title of the happy viewers thread says most of us but this one seems much more popular =))

    I liked the ending, but I hope for the next one we get a proper happy ending. No more "Bond is back!!!" endings. Just give Craig a happy ending with the girl where nobody he cares about dies.
  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    I liked the ending, but I hope for the next one we get a proper happy ending. No more "Bond is back!!!" endings. Just give Craig a happy ending with the girl where nobody he cares about dies.
    Well, nobody he cared about died in Quantum.

  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    JimThompson45 wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    I liked the ending, but I hope for the next one we get a proper happy ending. No more "Bond is back!!!" endings. Just give Craig a happy ending with the girl where nobody he cares about dies.
    Well, nobody he cared about died in Quantum.

    Hmmm, true, but it still didn't really feel like a happy ending imo. It still felt a bit grim, and it although nobody died, we still had Bond getting over somebody who died.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    JimThompson45 wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    I liked the ending, but I hope for the next one we get a proper happy ending. No more "Bond is back!!!" endings. Just give Craig a happy ending with the girl where nobody he cares about dies.
    Well, nobody he cared about died in Quantum.

    Well Bond DID care about Mathis but I sort of see what you mean.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    I like how the title of the happy viewers thread says most of us but this one seems much more popular =))

    :D very true. On a serious note, I guess it's because there's only so much talking you can do about how good something is. If something in a film works there's no need to deconstruct it and learn how to do it better next time. The interesting thing is looking at aspects of the films that didn't work or that can be improved upon in the future.

    In all honesty John Logan would find a wealth of interesting info on this forum. Whether he agrees with it or not, I think there are a lot of observations by genuine fans that could inform where Bond goes next.
  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Hmmm, true, but it still didn't really feel like a happy ending imo. It still felt a bit grim, and it although nobody died, we still had Bond getting over somebody who died.

    Guess I saw the end of Quantum with the character being satisfied, if not happy. I liked the end of it.

  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    I haven't commented one this thread before as I haven't quite made up my mind where this movie finally sits amongst the pack, though I currently have it hovering at No 10 in a recent ranking. I've only seen it the once so need to see it a couple more times before I can form a better picture of its strengths and weaknesses which is the reason for my lack of input here. One thing I will agree on with @Getafix is that for a serious Bond it does take liberties in logic and probably oversteps familiarity more than it should with its nods to the past. I also find the tag of "Bond is Back" a bit insincere when the 1st Act of the movie shows Bond weakened, unfit and antiquated by the staff of MI6 after only having been missing in action for a short time. I'm also not sure it was necessary to explore Bond's dark inner turmoil and premature aging in only his third film. Maybe this would have been better suited for his final Bond outing when he was Brosnan's age in DAD? Also, Bond doesn't do that much detective work to earn "The Bond is Back" moniker as he's more assigned to being M's bodyguard for the remainder of the film than anything else. There are some scenes I think are great and look forward to viewing again, but I have to admit it wasn't the overall enjoyable experience I thought it was going to be, and for that reason I need to explore why that was. Some of these posts have helped hone the reasons why and some have not helped at all.

    I must admit that I find "the disappointed" thread far more interesting than the "adulation" one for the simple reason that it can get a tad boring reading the same sweet talk with a refusal to acknowledge or even discuss Skyfall's shortcomings. I don't know why the ones that love it without question feel the need to come here and derail the points that @Getafix has raised? It seems that if you don't see this as anything other than utter perfection and the new benchmark then you are an enemy of the state and need to be put in your place by the self-proclaimed Daniel Craig guard dogs.

    For the record I'm a huge Craig fan but, in all honesty, I find Skyfall a bit hit 'n' miss.
  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    bondsum wrote:
    It seems that if you don't see this as anything other than utter perfection and the new benchmark then you are an enemy of the state and need to be put in your place by the self-proclaimed Daniel Craig guard dogs.

    Aren't you guilty of committing the sin you're railing against here? Isn't this simply a version of what you're saying you're offended by, that if someone doesn't acknowledge that what other people see as "flaws" in the film that they are "enemies of the state" somehow?

  • DRush76DRush76
    Posts: 533

    To say Brozza's films had superior writing to SF shows the kind of person you are. Let's leave it at that.

    This statement is so ridiculous and infantile that I can't believe it was posted in the first place. You're so upset over my criticisms of "SKYFALL" that you had to resort to personally insulting me? How old are you? Eleven? Twelve?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    As I have predicted a week or so ago, this thread has ended in the same spot as the other one, with senseless bickering instead of smart reasoning. Too bad...
  • JimThompson45JimThompson45
    Posts: 803
    DarthDimi wrote:
    As I have predicted a week or so ago, this thread has ended in the same spot as the other one, with senseless bickering instead of smart reasoning. Too bad...

    LOL! Well, not too many people follow the rules of debate when they are carrying on a conversation, I find.

  • 00Zenon00Zenon Perth, Australia
    Posts: 44
    So only just saw this
    (crappy Australian release date)
    :(

    I liked the movie, it was all right, reviews ultimately overrated for me.

    Main things I disliked:
    - From the off I knew I'd be disappointed with the lack of gun barrel at the opening
    I know Mendes said it doesn't work, which is fair enough, but has the barrel ever made sense at the opening of any Bond film? (minus CR and QoS naturally)
    - It had "classic" elements, but I wouldn't consider it "classic" Bond
    - The CGI for the komodo dragons and the helicopter was just horrible...
    - Bardem's weird jaw thing...why?!?! Never appeared later on in the film...
    - The score, wish it featured more of Adele's theme instead of overusing the Bond theme (and the best instance of Bond theme; the DB5 scene) was just David Arnolds Names Bond James Bond.
    - (and once again) gun barrel at the end...I figured it would be at the end...but it was not worth it looked crap anyway

    Anyway
    enjoyed most of the film, and will definitely watch again/ad to the collection
    but wouldn't consider it "classic" or better than CR despite what reviews have said
  • 00Zenon00Zenon Perth, Australia
    Posts: 44
    Also, I predicted the entire ending before I even stepped into the cinema...
    Mallory...M....OBVIOUSLY!!!
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    JimThompson45 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    Because she was away from home and not dying on her own terms. She was like a hunted animal being chased by the villain and his men relentlessly. She was powerless and ironic for a woman who commanded MI6.

    I think it was unthinkable to her how things went so wrong and the severe punishment of the past came down like a tonne of bricks. Her career or loss of it was the last thing she was worried about in the last act.
    Well, when push came to shove, she made a stand. There's a lot less dignified ways to go than that.

    True, but I doubt she expected it to go as far. She assumed earlier on that Bond would get Silva before things went out of control. And I assume she knew had she not made the stand, then Silva knew where she lived and how to find her. He knew how to hack into MI6 after all when he shows Bond's medical report.

    She shows true leadership in the sense of putting herself on the frontline and in harms way. What politician would do that?

    I love the "sad but not too sad" approach they made to her death aswell. Obviously the performances were powerful and the next shot of Craig on the roof was iconic but her leaving him that dog - especially after he'd mocked it earlier - was delightful.

    This film SF is the first time I walked out of a Bond film in years being a satisfied customer. I thought all the touches were right. Even the love scenes were done tastefully and believably. I totally bought why Severine would be attracted to him by his handling of the scene in the bar.

    The ending of the film was nicely scripted. Subtle and not overpowering.

    I love the psychological element taking priority over action. I sensed the danger in this film for Bond and liked to see that his life is not as glamorous as the stereotype suggests.

  • IncisorIncisor
    Posts: 22
    JimThompson45 wrote:
    Incisor wrote:
    Also forget all the other plotholes. How did bond survive getting shot on top of the train, let alone the giant fall?
    Where'd he get shot? That'd have a lot to do with it. Surviving the fall actually became more likely since the shock of being shot made him go limp.

    Haha what a load of BS
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    bondsum wrote:
    I must admit that I find "the disappointed" thread far more interesting than the "adulation" one for the simple reason that it can get a tad boring reading the same sweet talk with a refusal to acknowledge or even discuss Skyfall's shortcomings. I don't know why the ones that love it without question feel the need to come here and derail the points that @Getafix has raised? It seems that if you don't see this as anything other than utter perfection and the new benchmark then you are an enemy of the state and need to be put in your place by the self-proclaimed Daniel Craig guard dogs.

    Completely agree. Even though I said I liked it and it was in my top 10 I've still had people have a go at me for criticising things in the film (like the gunbarrel).
This discussion has been closed.