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Connery vs Dalton

sirseanisbondsirseanisbond
edited December 2012 in Actors Posts: 2,189
I'm starting this discussion because I want to keep my faith in humanity. Too often have I heard unfortunate members of this forum claim that Dalton is the best Bond and that he's better than Sean. I'm hoping that this is just a vocal minority speaking and doubtless they will find there way to this discussion and fill its pages with long-winded vitriol defending their dark knight. However, I think that at the end of the day, a majority of Bond fans here can agree that Sean was not only better than Tim, but is still the best Bond all around.
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Comments

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Finally! The two finest Bond actors in their own thread!! Good show!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    People who believe Dalton is better are entitled to their opinion. There is no right or wrong answer as to who the best Bond is. That being said, for me, Connery is the best, the undisputed king BUT! there are indeed very strong arguments that can be made as to why Dalton has his legion of supporters who regard him to be the best and I think that should be appreciated and respected.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Is this serious?

    Ok, Connery.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Connery
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    I forgot to vote...
    Dalton.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    I'm starting this discussion because I want to keep my faith in humanity. Too often have I heard unfortunate members of this forum claim that Dalton is the best Bond and that he's better than Sean. I'm hoping that this is just a vocal minority speaking and doubtless they will find there way to this discussion and fill its pages with long-winded vitriol defending their dark knight. However, I think that at the end of the day, a majority of Bond fans here can agree that Sean was not only better than Tim, but is still the best Bond all around.

    Don't be so over the top about it. I think you're just angry that not everyone agrees with you and that no matter how much you hate Dalton, he still has fans.

    I would vote for Dalton and say why but I wouldn't want to ruin your precious thread with "long winded vitriol"
  • Goldeneye95Goldeneye95
    Posts: 546
    Sir Timothy Dalton.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Well I hope this is a thread about preference between the two rather than trying to prove which was the greatest Bond. A greatest Bond thread should have six names in it as far as I know.

    So keep it civil chaps.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    NicNac wrote:
    Well I hope this is a thread about preference between the two

    As a Flemingesque Bond I prefer Dalton- he did the homework & nailed the man inside the mystique.
    As a 'cinema' Bond Connery is the obvious choice for the many well documented attributes he brought to the part.

    As I said, these are the best of the best.

  • sirseanisbondsirseanisbond
    Posts: 2,189
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    I'm starting this discussion because I want to keep my faith in humanity. Too often have I heard unfortunate members of this forum claim that Dalton is the best Bond and that he's better than Sean. I'm hoping that this is just a vocal minority speaking and doubtless they will find there way to this discussion and fill its pages with long-winded vitriol defending their dark knight. However, I think that at the end of the day, a majority of Bond fans here can agree that Sean was not only better than Tim, but is still the best Bond all around.

    Don't be so over the top about it. I think you're just angry that not everyone agrees with you and that no matter how much you hate Dalton, he still has fans.

    I would vote for Dalton and say why but I wouldn't want to ruin your precious thread with "long winded vitriol"

    Ok you're right, I misspoke. I'm frustrated with Dalton fans because I've tried to argue with them on their own threads where I was hopelessly outnumbered. I respect people's opinions and I don't want to discourage anyone from sharing them here. On the contrary, I welcome it because it was die-hard Daltonites like you @thelivingroyale who managed to make me gain a lot of respect for Tim, which is something I'm truly grateful for. I do however want to have this debate out in the open because I think it makes for some excellent discussion, so please do not hold back your opinions. Speak freely here.
  • TimothyDalton007TimothyDalton007
    edited December 2012 Posts: 42
    Depends to a large extent on whether you're loooking for a truly authentic take on the character Fleming created or not.

    Don't get me wrong, I love Connery's performances, every last one - even in YOLT and DAF, which are IMHO among the weaker films in the series, he is still an immensely charismatic presence, and is never less than watchable. When I was a gangly, awkward, socially inept teenager, Connery's Bond was what I aspired to be - and, on some days, still do!

    But - and there is a but - I had read, re-read and loved all of Fleming's novels before watching any of the movies. It is Dalton's insistence on being faithful to the character contained in those novels, and bringing him to life on screen, that tips the scales in his favour for me.

    Connery's Bond is a magnificent creation, and as @chrisisall alluded to earlier, he is the true 'cinematic' Bond - but Timothy Dalton is above him for the simple reason he personifies the hardened, professional, largely humourless character - both conflicted and contradictory - that Fleming created.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    For me Dalton is Bond. I love his performances and he will always be my favourite Bond, but grumpy Sean is not far behind, and stars in my all time favourite Bond - From Russia With Love. But it is Dalton I see when reading the books, and where as Craig is nearly as good an actor and I enjoy his performances he just doesn't 'look' like Bond, whereas Dalton just is.
  • sirseanisbondsirseanisbond
    Posts: 2,189
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    For me Dalton is Bond. I love his performances and he will always be my favourite Bond, but grumpy Sean is not far behind, and stars in my all time favourite Bond - From Russia With Love. But it is Dalton I see when reading the books, and where as Craig is nearly as good an actor and I enjoy his performances he just doesn't 'look' like Bond, whereas Dalton just is.

    I agree that Dalton and Craig are of the same acting caliber, and I also agree that Craig simply doesn't 'look' the part very well. However, I'll have to disagree with you on tha last bit because for me, Sean is Bond, he's the one I think of when reading the books, and the one actor by which all the others are measured.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    But it is Dalton I see when reading the books
    Man, I just read Wood's novelization of The Spy Who Loved Me and I STILL saw Dalton...
    @-)
  • LicencedToKilt69007LicencedToKilt69007 Belgium, Wallonia
    Posts: 523
    Connery all the way ! Tim Dalton came back to the character's roots and he was the first, so dark, pro side, psychologically more human and closest to Fleming's Bond in books. But Sean created the cinematic 007 with all his class, style (Sometimes Dalton was Connerish...so does Craig, who is...more, Daltonish), sex-appeal, toughness, pro...

    FRWL is the only Connery that can be compared to Dalton's films IMOO.

    Connery in films, Dalton for the books. Most of the time. For me.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Here we are:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/129/timothy-dalton-or-sean-connery
  • sirseanisbondsirseanisbond
    Posts: 2,189
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Here we are:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/129/timothy-dalton-or-sean-connery

    You admin's need to make a better way for us to search through existing discussions rather than expect us to look through hundreds of pages to try and find an old discussion. If it’s old it’s old, and that one you posted isn’t even in ‘Actors’ which it ought to be because that’s what I’m debating here. Please don’t close it! I’m very active in this discussion and I want to oversee its progression so if you keep it open I’ll keep it fresh and different...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2012 Posts: 17,804
    Yeah, that one's five months old- let's stick with this one, eh?
  • sirseanisbondsirseanisbond
    Posts: 2,189
    I’m curious whether it’s merely a matter of preference or if your first impression of the character has to do with it. I am 21, and when I was 9 I was introduced to Bond when my family rented and watched Goldfinger. From that point on I was hooked on the Bond franchise, and Sean has always been my favorite. I can see how people who saw Tim first, or who began reading the books could prefer Dalton. Does anyone feel this way?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Connery was my first Bond as well. All through the Moore years I felt I was watching The Saint pretending to be Bond. It was only much later when I read Fleming that I realized Dalton had it right.
  • JohnBarryFanJohnBarryFan
    edited December 2012 Posts: 1,405
    First thing, Dalton is a better actor than Sean Connery. He's got more raw tools to work with. Although Tim just played in two Bond films, he absolutly exploded off the screen.
    Forgive me for saying so, but Connery, even if a very good, solid Bond, did not put his heart into his last two outings, YOLT and DAF. And it showed, and that must be taken into account when you evaluate his overall status and performance. Two so-so outings out of 6 is not a very good average...

    True, had Dalton played in 5 or 6 Bonds, we may have found something to criticize, but we also may have found out that he was the best, period. Two films is a short sample.

    That being said, I like TLD more than FRWL, and I like LTK more than Goldfinger, in my opinion the 2 best outings of both. I'm sorry to say that I rate Connery in 5th position, only over Brosnan whose performance I found artificial.

    So Timothy Dalton rules!
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Here we are:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/129/timothy-dalton-or-sean-connery

    You admin's need to make a better way for us to search through existing discussions rather than expect us to look through hundreds of pages to try and find an old discussion. If it’s old it’s old, and that one you posted isn’t even in ‘Actors’ which it ought to be because that’s what I’m debating here. Please don’t close it! I’m very active in this discussion and I want to oversee its progression so if you keep it open I’ll keep it fresh and different...

    Search on Google using the terms you're looking for and add 'MI6 Community' at the end. So 'Connery Dalton MI6 Community' brought the linked thread up first time. Don't use the forum's search function - it doesn't work.
    chrisisall wrote:
    Yeah, that one's five months old- let's stick with this one, eh?

    The mods usually think one thread is enough.
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    Can't we just apprecite the Bonds all seperately and not be convinced that one has to be better than another or that there is a way to rank them?

    I'm personally tired with all this because it leads to the fallacy of people (specifically the mainstream audience) believing that Connery is the one and only Bond and that the other 40 years of the franchise don't even matter. :(
  • lahainelahaine
    Posts: 161
    chrisisall wrote:
    Finally! The two finest Bond actors in their own thread!! Good show!

    Only Craig and Connery really are the two Bonds everyone loves

    Love Dalton but his films aren't that great. Connery is the boss.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Dalton once again, was my favorite Bond, Connery was perhaps the best Bond, and I always focus on his near immaculate performances of Dr No and From Russia With Love, that may never be beaten

    But Dalton was perhaps closest to the Fleming character, and gave a quite outstanding performance for his two appearances, it's a shame his last movie was something of a disappointment, regardless of the greatness of the actor himself as Bond
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    lahaine wrote:
    Love Dalton but his films aren't that great.
    Know what? If you read the novels, Connery's first four, Lazenby's one & Dalton's two fit in with scope & story very nicely. In fact, I think those are the ONLY movies one can truly call Fleming-like more than not.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I can't quite believe that someone said that Dalton's films aren't up to much ?

    I know it's all about opinions, but even so. Timothy Dalton gave two outstanding performances for me, the man was immense
  • TimothyDalton007TimothyDalton007
    edited December 2012 Posts: 42
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    Timothy Dalton gave two outstanding performances for me, the man was immense
    I won't argue with you on that one, but it still irks the hell out of me that we only have those two performances.
  • sirseanisbondsirseanisbond
    edited December 2012 Posts: 2,189
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    I can't quite believe that someone said that Dalton's films aren't up to much ?

    I know it's all about opinions, but even so. Timothy Dalton gave two outstanding performances for me, the man was immense

    The man may be, but the films are a bit lacking. They miss the mark because they're more action movies and less Bond movies. They don't have the sparkle that Sean's or Roger’s movies had, and that's because Tim played it like Fleming wrote it, which turns out to be more dark, and less fun.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    sirseanisbond wrote:
    They don't have the sparkle that Sean's or Roger’s movies had, and that's because Tim played it like Fleming wrote it, which turns out to be more dark, and less fun.
    I have isolated your 'thing' here- you are in it for the fun, not the exploration of a deeper or more complex character.
    Ha ha- Connery's Bond is, for lack of a better term, your cinematic action figure!
    And not meant as a slam- I love a good Goldfinger romp like any Bond fan.
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