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I wasn't my intention to imply that Dalton was a bad actor or inferior. More that he seems more suited to the television medium. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that.
I already said in my earlier post that Brosnan was the "lighter" of the two men as he appeared in lesser quality programes. Look at Daltons "pre Bond" tv credentials vs Brosnan's pre Bond tv credentials. There's no competion. Having seen a few Remington Steele episodes I can safely say its somewhat average at best. I actually prefer PB in Bond funnily enough. For the most part he looks more authoritative.
The thing is Dalton seems to have found most success in television since Bond too (judging by his imdb page) so forgive me for forming that view.
True it's ultimately a case of 'putting bums on seats' which Brosnan managed to do better than Dalton and may explain his success in film, but putting that aside Dalton just looks more "highbrow tv-drama-ish" to me. I felt that when watching him in some scenes in Bond. Only my opinion though.
I've used him as an example before but someone like Charles Dance (very talented actor) is probably the same.
It would have been James Bond Jr.
Yeah i think Brosnan does look younger than he is even now, and in 87 even though he was 34 and older than Connery and Lazenby when they started the role he looked considerably younger than them both.
By "Shakespearean training", I assume that you mean his training at RADA? Yes, it is considered the gold standard for actors but please bear in mind that Roger Moore also attended.
Now, I'm a huge Tim Dalton fan but he really wasn't. He was a very well-regarded theatre actor who'd had a couple of impressive period film roles very early in his career. But the recent myth amongst Bond fans that he was one of the finest actors of his generation is nonsense. Craig, for example, was probably held in higher regard in 2006 than Dalton was in 1987.
Not to say Dalton wasn't a very good actor and an excellent Bond, just that there is a growing element of exaggeration about his reputation.
RADA alone will not qualify you as an actor. Yes, you can learn techniques, but you have to put serious work in to get to a serious acting level. Do you think that sums up Roger?
Equally, George W. Bush went to Yale. It does not automatically mean he is an academic or super bright.
Roger Moore may have attended RADA but he could not do Shakespeare or has the same actor skill as Dalton. Roger is good though and Roger would admit his limitations. On top of RADA, you have to also do a lot of youth theatre work and plenty of live performances. Something Roger did not do.
Theatrically, Dalton had a top billing as he worked a lot with Vanessa Redgrave who comes from a premiere British acting dynasty. And in England, you are rated for theatre work. But he was very popular in the UK when he did Jane Eyre. In fact, he became famous in Russia because of it.
Back then, actors to be respected had to do theatre. That's why Anthony Hopkins also spent a lot of time doing it. They would do tv or film work to supplement the poor income theatre generates.
But, I did not ever imply that he was a super famous actor. But he was certainly one of the best actors working in Britain. How many top notch skilled British actors can we name from that era?
Dalton did do film work like The Rocketeer where he played the villain and that did well. But what you seem to forget is how the film industry works. You think that if someone gets offered less work then they are of less value.
I will say this again.Anthony Hopkins was not a mega name before TSOTL. The Oscar win for him sky rocketed his career. Up to that point he would do smaller roles and was very under the radar. But the Oscar gave him huge demand as an actor.
Your view? You said Dalton is less suited to cinema. That is a nonsensical view. You base that on the fact, that because he does less film work, he is not suited to cinema. Yeah right! Pierce Brosnan is my twin brother too. :)
So when I saw Dalton opposite Paul Bettany in The Tourist which also stars Johnny Depp, I am supposed to according to you believe he is not suited to cinema?
Dalton holds his own with Bettany and we all know Bettany is a brilliant actor. Explain to me what is tv-ish about Dalton in that? Because tv-ish does not cut it and is a cop out answer.
Dalton is an true actor and not a corporate whore who does it for the fame and money.
For your information, Bettany's career has slowed down in cinema. I keep on saying that it is an industry that cares more for money generated than art.
Do you know Eva Green? :) She dislikes The Hollywood mentality. She said she got offered acting roles after CR not because she was really good in it but because the film made a lot of money and therefore she was a familiar face.
How many big films has Eva Green done despite arguably being one of the best actresses in the world? Cameron Diaz gets way more work than her so maybe according to your wonderful logic, Eva is better suited to tv.
Also some actors do not take any shit offered to them for the pay cheque. Eva is one who does not do it just for monetary reasons. Nicolas Cage is a perfect example of that as in need to maintain lavish lifestyle.
Sean Penn even said that Cage gave up being an actor. Cage went movie star route and suffered the loss of integrity to buy 50 sports cars. And what is Cage doing now despite all those earlier hit movies?
Also define for me "Authoratative" as in Brosnan's Bond over Dalton's? One worded expressions mean nothing and once again are easy way outs.
Over to you @Bain123 :)
You make good points about Eva Green and Nic Cage (possibly one of the biggest sell outs in show business) but that doesn't change my view about Dalton. I wasn't saying he was a bad actor or an 'inferior' one and I accept that he's a better actor than Brosnan. He just has a bit more of a stage/ tv style manner about him - TO ME. I felt that when I was watching him in Bond sometimes. I can't really explain it but its just how I feel. Maybe its his loose, overly casual wardrobe they sometimes give him (especially in LTK), maybe its his rather "grey" manner but he doesn't have the same sort of striking presence someone like Craig (and Eva Green for that matter) really has.
I haven't seen The Tourist in all honesty but from what I know Dalton isn't exactly in it for that long. Its a "bit" part in a big Hollywood film.
I don't want to argue with you. I'm merely pointing out what I felt and I'm obviously not going to change your opinion.
Plus when I taked about Brosnan being authoratitive I wasn't comparing him to Dalts (who IS more authoratitive), I was talking about Broz in relation to his RS days (i.e. Broz is more authoratitive physically as Bond than he was as RS).
And for the record @LicenceToKilt I agree Brosnan in LTK wouldn't have worked.
Huh? I couldn't disagree more with this, but you're (obviously) welcome to your views.
Dalton is certainly handsome and commanding but, to be honest, I do think Craig has a slightly more...alluring quality about him onscreen. Its probably those piercing eyes.
As opposed to Dalton's piercing gray-green eyes? Dalton's eyes are one of his most striking features. Look, it's cool that you are more allured by Craig. I have nothing against the guy, but I'm of a different opinion. Will probably remain that way too. The piercing eyes is just not a good argument IMHO, because both actors have that. I personally believe both are alluring on screen, just in different ways. And to mention Eva Green, I actually feel that Dalton has a very similar cool, striking set of looks, just as she does, and a compelling presence to boot. Anyway, we're really deviating from the OP now, so I guess I'll leave it at that... for now.
I respect both men very much. I take your point and, for the record, I actually used to prefer Dalton but after re-watching their films recently I think Craig has a bit more of a genuinely ruthless edge to him. Thats why I prefer him now and why I feel he is more alluring as I put it.
Anyway, this is about Broz
Still, '95 was Brosnan's time, not before.
Sir Timothy could not have been denied a turn.
Brosnan certainly had his fair share of problems and certainly wasn't perfect... but I think he was bit more...accessible.
However I agree that Dalton couldn't have been denied a run.
-Cassandra Harris probably would've played another Bond girl like Maud Adam did with The Man with the Golden Gun and Octopussy. Remember she was Brosnan's wife so it's a possbility.
-Stephanie Zimbalist (who worked with Brosnan on Remington Steele) probably would've play Pam Bouvier for License to Kill instead of Carey Lowell if Brosnan had played Bond.
I agree about Stephanie Zimbalist as Pam, she's a fine actress. I loved her in Remington Steele and they had wonderful chemistry together.
If that happen, then people will nickname Licence to Kill to Remington Steele: the movie. Because of Brosnan as Bond (Steele) and Zimbalist as Bouvier (Holt).
Well I don't mean having Zimbalist and Brosnan in the same film. She would have made a fine Dalton Bond girl too.
Well the only way Zimbalist to have appear in LTK as Pam is casting Brosnan as Bond (Brosnan would've suggest to the producers to have Zimbalist cast as Pam if he was Bond) hence why if Brosnan was in LTK with Zimbalist as Pam, the Bond girl, LTK would've been nicknamed Remington Steele: the movie if it went that way.
I would have preferred if Dalts had carried on to 1995 with two or three more films and then we'd had someone completely different. Brosnan was a commercial success but acting catastrophe.
Splendid points! @Regan I always thought Dalton had piercing green eyes and Cubby Broccoli mentions that in his book. He said Dalton had a wolfish quality about him.
One thing that is indisputable about Mr Dalton is that he uses his eyes to convey a thought. But Dalton is certainly a striking looker who does not need to over compensate with an exagerated swagger.
F me, but Dalton and Green would make a killer pairing if he was her age let's say. She has a similar outlook on the film business to him and is likewise highly intelligent.
The award winning director of The Tourist in his commentary says Dalton understands cinema and how to work the camera. He said in every shot he did, Tim knew the best positions for the camera. This is why he hired him.
Here is a little snip of this director's awards. His first feature film Das Leben der Anderen (The Lives of Others), which Donnersmarck spent three years writing, directing and completing, won the European Film Award for Best Film, Best Actor and Best Screenplay in 2006. Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck went on to win the Los Angeles Film Critics Association's award for Best Foreign Film, was nominated for the Golden Globe (which went to Clint Eastwood instead), and on 25 February 2007 won the Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film.
My question to you is why would a director of this high calibre hire Dalton for tv-ihness? And European directors only work with actors they consider really skilled at their craft. It makes no sense and you are the first ever to say that. Even Dalton Bond detractors I know all say he is a brilliant actor who was too good for such a role.
See director's will hire an actor for a small part but that does not mean the part is insignificant. When Anthony Hopkins had a small role in MI2 with Tom Cruise, it was all the more effective for it's less is more.
But you should see the scene with him and Bettany in The Tourist. Damn, but Dalton is brilliant and I think Bettany is one fine actor himself. Dalton has this gravitas about him.
This TV style you keep referring to without any real backup makes no sense. See The Tourist and tell me with any sincere logic that Dalton is tv-ish in it.
I certainly saw now TV-ishness in his Bond films. Ironically, Moore was a tv star and he still is the same in film or in tv.
You can't change my opinion because there is nothing to change. Clive Owen did tv work which established him early on. Like Chancer. He still is a brilliant actor with whatever he applies himself.
You also have to remember that back in the 80's when Dalton did tv work, it had a huge audience. Viewing figures back then could rival the biggest films. There was little adult cinema as Hollywood fashion in the 80's was for youth oriented movies as those were the main money makers.
This ruthless edge that many describe Craig's Bond with is one dimensional. Jason Statham plays many roles where he has that ruthless edge and better physicality. I think the new Bond films would have worked very well with his style too.
Put Craig in a fight with Statham and who wins? Statham is way more ruthless and a sh*t kicker for sure.
I mean watch The Transporter films and the character is a ruthless Bond type like we see with Craig. The Transporter was 2002 and I remember thinking how tough he was compared to the 90's Bond. But Mr Statham did it first no question.
But Bond was never that ruthless in the books or earlier films. The newer films over rely on that quality but that is not who Bond really is or was. This is more to do with pleasing modern audiences and nothing more.
If in 25 years time Bond is an occasional cross dresser then many will say he was always like that. Me, I do not go along with everything and question certain newly introduced aspects that really are not new but let's say borrowed from other films
I always give credit where it is due.That's the kind of guy I am! :) Thanks Mr Statham for showing the way!
But Craig has more class than Statham. That's the difference. Statham is an East End geezer in pretty much all his films. Craig has a rough quality to him (like Statham) but also has a bit more of a twinkle and mocking sense of humour (like Bond).
I agree there are some rather Statham-y moments in QOS but Craig has more in the charm department.
Statham could put on the class and humour just like Craig does. Statham is an actor who can do serious very well and is unquestionably believable without having to do intense gym work like Craig had to.
But no question, the ruthless edge is nothing new if you watch films like The Transporter series. He almost dresses like Bond and has that swagger many praise Craig with.
And yes Mr Statham is an East End geezer but then again Craig's strength as Bond is not from his classiness. Classiness is very minute with the new Bond. Watch his eating scene in CR with Eva before she gets abducted. He eats like a geezer too! Talks with his mouth full of food. :)
I'm sorry, but if you don't believe that Statham had to do intense gym work to get into the shape he's in (and keep it) then you know nothing about physical fitness. If you still don't believe me you can find several interviews online with Statham where he talks about how hard he trains. This makes it sound like you're reaching for any kind of argument to make Craig look...lesser than another person in comparison.
I don't find that classiness is absent in the Craig era Bond films, but that can be a matter of opinion - how much class is enough for each viewer? For me there's a lot - from the settings to Bond's clothes to his actions (comforting Vesper in the shower was one of the series' most classy moments IMHO).
Classy as in the Bond panache. It is not the main criteria for me. In fact, it was a comment an earlier poster made and merely responded to that.
Yes, Statham did work outs, but he is a tall and naturally well built man anyhow. Craig was stuck in the gym because of criticism from the media that he did not have the physicality of Bond. Did Brosnan. Connery, Moore or Dalton as well as Lazenby have to be stuck in a gym on a strict diet and schedule for work out?
Put Craig next to Statham in real life and you tell me who is the more physically intimidating?
I am not trying to make Craig look lesser but just saying that these much vaunted new elements in Bond are not new and have been done elsewhere.
I was talking about the ruthless quality which Bond always had but this new more brutalised ruthlessness has it's origins in films way before Craig's tenure.
This ruthlessness is not Craig's invention is all I am saying or more importantly, exclusivity.
Old Bond had a more unique style and was known for that. And Jason Statham could in these newer films played Bond no question!