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Tuulia,
I just wanted to say that as impressed as I was by the wisdom of your words I'm even more impressed now that I know that English is your second language! You write with more eloquence (and better grammar and spelling!) than many of the posters here for whom English is their first language.
Seeing SF a second time enabled me to see the detail and subtlety to certain scenes much more clearly. But even on first viewing a lot of the things that you say are quite clear. Severine invites Bond to be with her and is waiting for him in a nightgown and with two glasses for champagne. So she was clearly "into" Bond and wanting to be with him. And the idea that Bond didn't care when she was killed - now that's just ridiculous. When Silva asks for Bond's reaction he's clearly at a loss for words, and then covers up by turning his face away and making the quip about the "waste of good scotch" (with a disgusted tone of voice). To actually have him say how disgusted he was would have a) been insulting to the intelligence of the viewers (IMHO) and b) completely defeat the purpose of Silva doing *anything* to get under Bond's skin but having Bond not give him that satisfaction.
Which brings me to the idea of Silva being gay. I just don't see it. Bond implies that Severine was in a relationship with Silva at some point. Silva kisses her and says that her "lovers are here" (both Bond and Silva). So he clearly had a relationship with Severine. Okay, so what about him hitting on Bond? If he was truly interested in Bond than when Bond said "What makes you think that this is my first time?" that should have really turned him on and led him to continue along the avenue of hitting on Bond. But instead he quickly gets up from his chair and then starts a different line of attack. So it was clearly just something that he was doing to try to rattle Bond - and when it didn't then it was time to try something else.
Sometimes I wonder if people watched a different Skyfall than I did, or perhaps they spent more time texting and not enough time watching what was clearly up there on the screen.
Back to Tennyson - one of the things that I loved about the old Bond films is the glimpses they gave into a "classy" world. The inclusion of the poem and the art gallery was a nice nod to that IMHO - and it added to the Britishness of SF.
There was a sexual ambiguity about Silva, I think some people construed this as 'gay' rather than something more subtle.
I agree with what you're saying above about Severine, Silva and Bond. I'm actually convinced that some people watched a different Skyfall, or weren't paying much attention to various stuff that was clearly in the movie either visually or verbally or both.
Using poetry would probably rarely work seamlessly and beautifully in most movies, nevermind "action" or "adventure" or "spy" movies*, but it did perfectly in Skyfall.
*(I understand that genre classification can be a useful tool, but I dislike it due to its often limiting or misleading nature - in movies as well as music and books.)
Regrettably, I can't take credit for this level of analysis, but I found these two reviews. They are quite deep, but i like the thrust of their analysis. Have the hit on something? or are talking pretentious bollocks?
Pretentious crap.
Says you. Again, if all people are going to do is whine or be negative about something, why come into the thread in the first place if you have absolutely nothing to add?
Another interesting point is that Malory used pre-existing legends, texts and their characters as the biases for almost all of Le Morte d'Arthur. However, he did create one completely new knight of the round table - Sir Gareth.
Again, this cannot possibly be a concordance.
Says you. Again, if all people are going to do is whine or be negative about something, why come into the thread in the first place if you have absolutely nothing to add?
Because I can. If you don't like what I have to say about "SKYFALL" . . . too bad. There is no law that I have to agree with everyone else.
Yes, I did think of Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur when I first heard Mallory's name, although I have never actually read that work. I think it fits nicely with Skyfall and I do not think it is a coincidence.
I am not so pathetic that I would mope if someone doesn't like it. Your opinion is your opinion. I just find it ludicrous to come into a thread just to be negative. That would be like buying tickets to a concert featuring a band you hate just so you can go there and complain in the crowd during the performance. You have nothing to add (as you don't like this symbolism stuff), and yet you continue to post in threads like this that you come to knowing you won't like what you find. It just makes no sense, that's all.
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
A worthy anthem for 007!
Lark
I seem to recall some TV show or movie that talked about how horrible all the budget cuts to whatever agency that was featured were - but then they proceeded to have very expensive cars (all wrecked), lots of cutting edge tech, and traveling to exotic locations and staying in great hotels. Best to leave that kind of commentary out of it.
I do agree that there was sexism in Bond's treatment of women in Skyfall but he is also borderline alcoholic, a pill popper and probably has very few emotions at all; no doubt qualifications to be "licenced to kill"
Welcome @South, you can present yourself in here: http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/13/new-members-introduce-yourself/p30#Item_896
As for the first question, Portugal and England hold the oldest still-standing alliance in the world (Anglo-Portuguese Alliance) since 1386.
Second question: yes, Mendes is a portuguese name and Sam is himself half-portuguese.
Moore's films are what they are, still fun to watch. I do agree that they don't have the complexity of films like SF and some are just plain embarrassing. There is always sexism in Bond but I didn't feel that there was that much in SF (I'm a woman), I think some people didn't fully understand what they were watching. Bond is a complex character and he is by no means perfect, he is a perfect anti-hero!
That detail completely escaped me when I first read this @Tuulia! Delacroix spanish =)) someone missed French lessons.
Yes, Silva was supposed to be Azorean, as confirmed by Mendes to a Portuguese TV (according to my mother) but that wasn't important for the character so his nationality was not referred to in the film.
Not half, more like, um, a quarter or some such thing? (Or then I've just been reading misinformation.)
Thanks. :)
And I know so little, too, and am no Brit, either, but I'm trying to learn at least bits and pieces... a Tennyson poem here, a Turner painting there... ;)
I highly recommend reading/studying Tennyson to anyone even slightly interested. He is compelling to analyze and his prose is just eloquent, and truly has stood the test of time.
Had a question. I'm not sure of English protocol, and if I give offense, I apologize in advance for my ignorance.
It seems that everyone else is interpreting the film to be about England's post imperial decline. There's food for thought in that, but for me M's character represented an allegory for the Queen. It makes me think of the film as a symbol of hope and endurance, not decline.
I guess the Bond escapade during the Olympics got me thinking about it, but if I were British and had a Queen, I would want her to be like M.
Standing the test of time, making the hard decisions, and continuing on in the face of adversity. She shows that even though she asks much of those who serve her, she expects no less of herself.
Which leads me to think of Mallory's character in light of Prince Charles. Regarded as a lightweight by those who don't know him well, but stands the test of fire when given.
Having now read the Tennyson poem in it's entirety, this also makes me think of the film as a statement about the inevitability of mortality, no matter how royal the head.
Anyway, I think Craig's interpretation of the Bond character has taken what was previously entertaining; and elevated it to the level of art. It exemplifies what makes Britain great.
Maybe it's our lack of royalty here that compels us to look across the water for inspiration, but know that English fortitude still matters. Strive on!
Curious if anyone else sees it this way. Anyway, best wishes.
I guess, looking from outside, it's easier for me to see that the British spirit was there before the empire.
I mean King Alfred, Queen Elizabeth 1, Newton, Wren, Watt, Faraday.....
For them, like now, greatness was not assured.
Empires pass through fate. Yours of coal, ours of petroleum.
But if the soul remains, then that which matters most cannot be killed.
Oh well, that's deep enough for one day.
Take care.
I concur! And welcome!
1. The DB
2. M's apartment
3. The hauntingly beautiful and yet heartbreakingly melancholic driving scene heading towards Skyfall, the end of all things as we knew it, the rebirth of Bond and M16.
You, sir, are very right. But, for the sake of conversation, I would certainly appreciate a fuller explanation of your thoughts and of course your suggestions regarding content that wouldn't regard as "pretentious crap."
Although the "pretentious crap" comment might get a few backs up, it occurs to me that Mendes has achieved such a fine balance in the film, that viewers who don't pick up on these themes can easily ignore them and just sit back and enjoy Skyfall as an action film.
...Or they can choose not to enjoy it at all...
Interesting idea there. I always feared that there would be an atrocity attempted at the London Olympics in 2012 but thankfully it never came to pass.
Lots of hard work was done over the period by both services (as you can imagine) so spare a thought to appreciate them!