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How the hell was Newman nominated for an oscar but not Barry?
Aziz_Fekkesh
Royale-les-Eaux
This is patently absurd and just goes to show how much of a joke the oscars are. Barry does incredible scores throughout the series but only gets nominated for his work outside of the series, as if Bond isn't good enough. Suddenly, Newman gets nominated on a critically acclaimed film (because that's the only reason they pay attention; also because it's a popularity contest) for a score that is unremarkable and not even close to Barry's scores. Same goes for Ken Adam. The only reason I'd watch this bollocks is if all the Bond's reunite, and even then not all the way through, I can't stand it.
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Comments
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/422/the-score-of-skyfall/p20
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/4376/skyfall-ost-sequencing/p1
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/553/bond-composer-john-barry-awarded-with-posthumous-prize/p1
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/953/play-it-again-sam...-the-john-barry-appreciation-thread/p1
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/3686/james-bond-the-oscar-thread/p1
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/4213/skyfall-for-oscars/p1
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2576/skyfall-awards-nominations-and-rankings-5-oscar-noms/p1
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/5318/the-oscars-2013/p1
But on the plus side...how great is the search function?! Eh? Eh?
:-bd
Which do we continue on, mods?
As Le Chiffre would say...
"BUT YOU ARE SO... WRONG!!!"
Newman's Skyfall score is great. Sure, its not what is considered a "traditional" Bond score (see Barry) or a 007-theme dependent score (see earlier Arnold) but that doesnt mean its unremarkable. It's remarkable in its own right.
John Barry composed such musical masterpieces for the Bonds, it is quite frankly hallucinating to conclude that in his lifetime he never received an Oscar for them. I say them because even one wouldn't have been enough. Either he wasn't nominated or he was but lost the Oscar to an inferior score. Am I pursuing illegitimate truth in what is at best my opinion? Perhaps. But let's be frank - one can almost objectively speaking recognise Barry's Bond music as ahead of its time, nearly perfect, universally influential for many celebrated composers that came after him, and so on.
It's not a shame that other composers were nominated for, or took home, an Oscar for their Bond contributions. It'll be a joy if and when Newman takes home the piece. But man does it make me angry that not the master himself, superior in every way to all of them, was ever given the recognition he deserved.
This was my very first indication ever that the Oscars can be, if they wish, a load of horse bugger.
Oh yes, there's that too. ;-) You're right, friend. But let's say I'll keep it open till most opinions have been stated, and then we'll expand the title to a 'why didn't Barry ever get and oscar for his Bond scores' discussion. ;-) What do you think?
John Barry's scores are also gems of contemporary music (not only soundtracks), so that too proves the lack of musical expertise in the Awards.
I'm sorry?
You might want to read the entire sentence, @TheWizardOfIce. :-) John Barry never received an Oscar for any of his Bond scores. He wasn't even nominated for one.
That's exactly why Thomas Newman scored an Oscar nomination with it. The ingenuity of Newman's score for 'Skyfall' is two sided:
A) It still sounds Bond-esque, while not loosing Newman's own sound, but most importantly....
B) It is Newman's first real action flick. For Newman this must have been quite a difficult process. The typical Newman sound mixed with traditional Bond elements resulted in a concoction that is, for Newman, one of the most original scores to date.
And frankly? This is how the Oscars work. They are not solely a 'Price for the best', but also a recognition ánd encouragement to do this more often.
And that's why I think the score for 'Skyfall' is a typical Bond score. But not only that! It's much more. It stands on its own as a very good score for simply a very good movie, apart from being a Bond score.
This only got nominated because it's Newman and I really hope it doesn't win.
I think you are not reading my arguments. I think 'we' Bond fans judge 'Skyfall' merely with a Bond eye. The Oscars judge films, not Bond films. Having said that.....I think that's the reason why 'Skyfall' gets the respect from the Academy with 5 Oscar nominations; a unique achievement. 'Skyfall' is finally much more than just another great Bond film. It's also a fantastic film.
Concerning the arguments I just mentioned about Thomas Newman.......Read my statements above.
What I don't understand is all this negative fuzz really. I mean.....for the past 31 years Bond fans have been criticising the Academy for not recognising franchise films. And for the past 31 years Bond fans have been saying that 007 should not look to those 'damn Oscars'.
And now we finally get an Oscar nod for 'Best Music Score'....and we again focus on the negatives. Again, the Oscars are also prizes for encouragement and achievements. They are not necessarily ratings for the quality of films. PLEASE take that in mind.
Also, for your sake, you could see it as a 'final recognition after all these years for the James Bond music'. Alas, no one will or can do that. Sad.
From a promotion/advertisement point of view Bond doesn't need an Oscar at all. Smaller critical pictures, like 'Zero Dark Thirty', 'Life Of Pi', 'Argo', 'Moonrise Kingdom', 'The Master' and 'Silver Linings Playbook' in my opinion deserve an Oscar from the bigger categories more. Knowing that these one-time movies, not being part of a franchise, will never reach the 1 Billion Dollar gross, they deserve an Oscar in one of the bigger acting/best picture categories more than James Bond.
Having said so, 'Skyfall' still gets 5 Oscar nods. What the hell are we whining about then :-). Still, I may sound a bit harsh, but that's my opinion.
I'm happy with Bond getting award recognition if I think Bond deserves it.
I want Bond to win awards in things I think it deserves. I want Deakins to win, I want Bardem to win the Bafta, I wanted it to get a nomination for best picture. I don't think Newman deserves it frankly.
By your logic Gustav we should've been happy if Die Another Day, A View To A Kill, etc, all got best picture nominations. Sure they weren't very good films and it would've taken away the chance of more deserving films but it's recognition at the Oscars, so what the hell would we be whining about?
"You are so right". :)
Stuff the oscars,everyone knows they are a prestigeous but flawed awards.
And what's more... Thomas newman will not win anyhow!! Life of pi, Michael Danna will!! Which if you've seen the film or heard that score can hear a mans life time of compositions round into one very moving score!!!
Ps... Please.... Not John Williams "Lincoln" score to win!? Dull and oh so predictable!! :)>-
Have you actually seen Claudia Miranda's cinematography on 'Life Of Pi'?
Deakins cinematograph on skyfall is good, but really.... Nothing terribly new!? Just better than what's gone before on Bond!!!
Life of pi... Is my bet!! Stunning work by Miranda!!!
Yes, and I think Deakins did a better job.
Better... On what's a totally different Movie experience!! Even Deakins would struggle with winning over some of the competition on offer, mainly Life of pi!!? Deakins best work isn't on skyfall but on other films his done like his Coen bros work!?
Anyhow his not going to win, as won't Newman!!
Adele is the only real contender!
Oh well, you say tomato I say tomahto.
HELL YES.
But is Neman's Skyfall score the best score we've had in years?
HELL YES.
For some IMO, I typed on the right thread but at least the people from the Oscars must had given him an "honour award" for his career, when he stopped after TLD. (which was at -his- best, furthermore)
The Oscars have been snobing 007 for too long and it isn't objective. Shall I call it "jealousy in disguise" ?
Newman's score is a quite good one but certainly not in one of the best. Arnold's TND, TWINE should also had been awarded or minimum nominated (I include DAD score in nominations).
@TheWizardOfIce, I'm still in anticipation of your explanation of "I'm sorry?". I never figured out what it is about my post that made you say that. :-)
That's your opinion off course, but actually quite untrue. First of all, age is no factor in inviting people to vote in a Academy Award category. Usually they are previous music composers....for the original score category. But they can be older but also younger. So to say the Academy is only an Old Boy Club is not entirely correct.
Secondly, and I tried to explain that on many occasions, the Oscars are not prizes for 'Best Bond film'. They are cinematic prizes for 'Every film'. So in that sense, both Thomas Newman, Marvin Hamlisch and John Barry got deserved Oscar recognition. Both composers have been composing for great movies outside the Bond franchise as well.
If you look into it in that way, then we can write down a number of facts regarding prizes won in the category 'Best Original Score':
JOHN BARRY:
Nominated for Academy Award: 7 times
--> 'Born Free' (Original Song, 1966)
--> 'Born Free' (Original Music Score, 1966)
--> 'The Lion In Winter' (1968)
--> 'Mary, Queen Of Scots' (1971)
--> 'Out Of Africa' (1985)
--> 'Dances With Wolves' (1990)
--> 'Chaplin' (1992)
Winning an Academy Award: 5 times
--> 'Born Free' (Original Song, 1966)
--> 'Born Free' (Original Music Score, 1966)
--> 'The Lion In Winter' (1968)
--> 'Out Of Africa' (1985)
--> 'Dances With Wolves' (1990)
MARVIN HAMLISCH:
Nominated for Academy Award: 12 times
--> 'Kotch' (Original Song, 1971)
--> 'The Sting' (Original Song Score, 1973)
--> 'The Way We Were' (Original Song, 1973)
--> 'The Way We Were' (Original Score, 1973)
--> 'The Spy Who Loved Me' (Original Song, 1977)
--> 'The Spy Who Loved Me' (Original Score, 1977)
--> 'Same Time, Next Year' (Original Song, 1978)
--> 'Ice Castles' (Original Song, 1978)
--> 'Sophie's Choice' (Original Score, 1982)
--> 'A Chorus Line' (Original Song, 1985)
--> 'Shirley Valentine' (Original Song, 1989)
--> 'The Mirror Has Two Faces' (Original Song, 1996)
Winning an Academy Award: 3 times
--> 'The Sting' (Original Song Score, 1973)
--> 'The Way We Were' (Original Song, 1973)
--> 'The Way We Were' (Original Score, 1973)
BILL CONTI:
Nominated for Academy Award: 3 times
--> 'Rocky' (Original Song, 1976)
--> 'For Your Eyes Only' (Original Song, 1981)
--> 'The Right Stuff' (Original Score, 1983)
Winning an Academy Award: 1 time
--> 'The Right Stuff' (Original Score, 1983)
THOMAS NEWMAN:
Nominated for Academy Award: 11 times
--> 'The Shawshank Redemption' (1994)
--> 'Little Women' (1994)
--> 'Unstrung Heroes' (1995)
--> 'American Beauty' (1999)
--> 'Road To Perdition' (2002)
--> 'Finding Nemo' (2003)
--> 'Lemony Snicket's A Series Of Unfortunate Events' (2004)
--> 'The Good German' (2006)
--> 'WALL·E' (Original Song, 2008)
--> 'WALL·E' (Original Score, 2008)
--> 'Skyfall' (2012)
Winning an Academy Award: N O N E
So who's treating who unfair now? Thomas Newman got snubbed a total of 11 times. So I find it a bit arrogant if we only judge the work of the above composers solely on their Bond stuff. Now Thomas Newman gets nominated for an 11th time, and all we can say is 'How the hell was he nominated for an Oscar??'
Reputation and better credentials outside the Bond universe are equally important. They are not judged solely on their Bond work but their entire cinematic work. Also, the Oscar is in part awarded as some kind of achievement for their overall work on music scores and/or original songs.
Now my personal opinion. I think this really was Thomas Newman's first time he did compose a score for an action blockbuster. I think for him personally it must have been pretty tricky to start working on such a franchise, as he usually composed slow-tempo dramatic scores for drama films ('American Beauty' his most famous example). It takes a lot of creativity, ingenuity and inspiration to come up with his own original take on a action blockbuster, and especially on a Bond score.
And I think he pulled it off. He did something extraordinary. In my opinion it is my favourite score for a Bond film ever since John Barry did 'The Living Daylights'. The reason John Barry never got nominated for a Bond score? Really, for Barry himself, and he admitted it many times, working on a Bond film was a welcome formularic period....a fun period! And allthough his Bond scores still sound fantastic -I love them- I think he was way more inspiring ánd original in his scores for 'Dances With Wolves' and 'Out Of Africa'.
So I don't understand all the anger surrounding Thomas Newman's Oscar nomination for 'Skyfall'. In a way it also shows us that 'Skyfall' is not only taken serious as a Bond film, but also as a great cinematic achievement apart from being Bond.
I have heard the music score from 'Life Of Pi', composed by Michael Danna. I love it, it won the Golden Globe and it is considered a frontrunner in winning the Oscar. Alexandre Desplat's score for 'Argo' could win too. But I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas Newman actually wins the Oscar for 'Best Original Score' after 10 missed wins.