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Could there or should there ever be a black 007? (Controversial...LoL!)
As you may have noticed from my username (LoL!)- I am a black James Bond fan (I'm English with Caribbean roots- born in England, my Mum is English from Mr.Craig's Birth City of Liverpool and my Dad is from Trinidad). I would consider myself to be a hardcore 007 fan as I've been watching the movies for over 35 years. Although I'd seen them on TV before, my first Bond experience at the Cinema was in 1977- TSWLM and I was 8.
OK- let me say right off the bat....My answer as to whether 007 could or should be played by a black actor is most definitely "No!".
We all know about Bond's Scottish/Swiss heritage and in my opinion- that is history that MUST NEVER be altered in the movies.
I read an article recently that prompted me to start this discussion. The title of the article was "Could IDRIS ELBA really be the first black 007?"
It is a rumour that has been circulating for a while now. Type his name in Google, the 2nd match comes up "IDRIS ELBA JAMES BOND". Many BOND fans across the globe thought the world had ended when a BLONDE actor was cast so God knows what they'll think about this LoL!
However- a quote from "SKYFALL" actress NAOMIE HARRIS seems to give credence to this "rumour". Speaking to The Huffington Post recently, HARRIS said - "I didn’t realize that there was this talk and then I did a film with Idris and he said that he met Barbara Broccoli and that it does seem like there is a possibility in the future that there could very well be a black James Bond. And I would have to vote for Idris because I just finished working with him and he’s a great guy".
Don't get me wrong- I love Idris Elba and I think he is a fantastic actor...but for Bond? If they decided to remake "SHAFT", it would be like casting HUGH GRANT!! (Can you imagine Hugh Grant stalking the mean streets of Harlem with Isaac Hayes's theme song playing! LoL!)
My money is still on the brilliant MICHAEL FASSBENDER to take over from DANIEL CRAIG once his tenure as 007 is over.
Incidently- I know Daniel Craig has signed up for 2 more movies but I really think he should only do 1 more. I love Daniel as 007 and I honestly think he is the best thing to happen to the franchise in a long time but by the time the next movie comes out, he'll be 46ish and he will be on the brink of looking too old and that is not a good look for Bond (Connery in DAF? Moore's movies after FYEO?). Plus 4 movies is enough to see the same actor play 1 character- I think it will need "freshening up" after Daniel's next movie.
Please speak freely on this discussion- I am not one of these "PC" idiots who will get offended if you say anything about black people LoL!
OK- let me say right off the bat....My answer as to whether 007 could or should be played by a black actor is most definitely "No!".
We all know about Bond's Scottish/Swiss heritage and in my opinion- that is history that MUST NEVER be altered in the movies.
I read an article recently that prompted me to start this discussion. The title of the article was "Could IDRIS ELBA really be the first black 007?"
It is a rumour that has been circulating for a while now. Type his name in Google, the 2nd match comes up "IDRIS ELBA JAMES BOND". Many BOND fans across the globe thought the world had ended when a BLONDE actor was cast so God knows what they'll think about this LoL!
However- a quote from "SKYFALL" actress NAOMIE HARRIS seems to give credence to this "rumour". Speaking to The Huffington Post recently, HARRIS said - "I didn’t realize that there was this talk and then I did a film with Idris and he said that he met Barbara Broccoli and that it does seem like there is a possibility in the future that there could very well be a black James Bond. And I would have to vote for Idris because I just finished working with him and he’s a great guy".
Don't get me wrong- I love Idris Elba and I think he is a fantastic actor...but for Bond? If they decided to remake "SHAFT", it would be like casting HUGH GRANT!! (Can you imagine Hugh Grant stalking the mean streets of Harlem with Isaac Hayes's theme song playing! LoL!)
My money is still on the brilliant MICHAEL FASSBENDER to take over from DANIEL CRAIG once his tenure as 007 is over.
Incidently- I know Daniel Craig has signed up for 2 more movies but I really think he should only do 1 more. I love Daniel as 007 and I honestly think he is the best thing to happen to the franchise in a long time but by the time the next movie comes out, he'll be 46ish and he will be on the brink of looking too old and that is not a good look for Bond (Connery in DAF? Moore's movies after FYEO?). Plus 4 movies is enough to see the same actor play 1 character- I think it will need "freshening up" after Daniel's next movie.
Please speak freely on this discussion- I am not one of these "PC" idiots who will get offended if you say anything about black people LoL!
This discussion has been closed.
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Comments
We've discussed that many times and we never get a good opinion about changing 007's race.
Anyway, I'll weigh in on this. I'm black myself and the way I see it is this: No, Bond wasn't originally written as black. But he also wasn't originally written as a gadget totting one liner cracking playboy, he didn't have blonde or brown hair, he didn't have sex as much as he does in the films, etc.
I'm also pretty sure he was meant to be English until Connery came along, because Fleming didn't talk about the Scottish/Swiss ancestry in the early books.
My point is, the character of Bond is always changing, his personality and appearence.
If you're a complete Fleming purist that hates Craig and Moore, fair enough, but if people are willing to accept all the different portrayals and how they look then I'm not sure why so many are against a black Bond.
Would Fleming like it? No. But then he didn't like Sean Connery or the first two films, so I don't think Fleming would like the films much at all.
People talk about boycotting the franchise if it ever happens, and I think that's an extremely OTT reaction. People are fine with a black Felix and a black moneypenny so why not at some point in the future, a black Bond?
I'm not saying make him black for the sake of it. But if at some point in the future there's a brilliant actor who aces the screentests and happens to be black, I say go for it.
You're not changing the character anymore than he's already been changed. You're not changing his gender, you're not making him a dwarf or putting him in a wheelchair, he's still James Bond 007, except this time, it's not his eye colour or hair colour changing along with his personality, it's his skin colour. And I don't see anything wrong with that.
Shaft isn't a good comparison either because he's only ever been played by one actor anyway (Samuel Jackson was playing his nephew or something if I remember right). Nobody but Roundtree should play Shaft.
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/772/how-would-you-feel-if-a-black-james-bond-was-cast
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1271/is-a-black-james-bond-inevitable
As long as people like @DRESSED_2_TouchMySexpoinage_Theif stay out of it, I think there's a good discussion to be had.
I'd be intrested to see a reply to my other post from people who are dead set against the idea of a black Bond.
Like you, I love Idris Elba as an actor because of his role of Stringer Bell in The Wire. He wa smagnificent in it. From what I gathered from interviews of him, he seems to be a really nice guy too and I am certain he is a great guy to work with. But he is not James Bond. I would, however, LOVE to see him playing a villain in a Bond movie.
Thanks for the welcome @X3MSonicX - I have started discussions in the forums before, but just don't come on here that often as every time I do- someone says "There's already been threads for this" LoL!
Sorry about that @Samuel001 - I thought there may have been but they're difficult to find for me as I don't use the forums that often so not sure how to search.
Thanks @thelivingroyale - you've made some valid points there. I must admit- I've not read all the Fleming Novels (some "hardcore fan" huh! LoL!) but I think you may well be right regarding the Heritage.
I'm afraid I don't agree with the Moneypenny/Leiter argument as the history/backstory of those 2 characters has never really been explored so their race is really of no significance. However- with SKYFALL and Moneypenny's reveal/appearance, we DO have some background on her but it would still make no difference if a few movies down the line a white actress played her again.
Thanks for your comments tho @thelivingroyale
Rather, if the best actor in the pool of auditions happens to be a black man then that's totally fine. That's what's important to me. This forum caused me to check out this Idris Elba and he definitely has the charm, though by the time Craig is done he'll probably be a bit too old. But hey- I'm a fan of 'Luther' now when before I'd never heard of the show! :-bd
I honestly feel that realistically the possibility's there but not anytime too soon- maybe Bond actor number 10 or thereabouts. Not too sure everyone's ready
*ps the new Moneypenny is HOT
**pps Welcome to the forum @Theblack007!
<center>'He's black??'
:D ;)</center>
Excellent post, @thelivingroyale, I couldn't have said it better myself. There is an important element that I will add, though.
There's a tactic that some people use in discussion called "false comparison". This can confuse people and it's often brought up when people talk about a black Bond - it's the idea of a white Shaft. Let me explain.
The Bond of the films has his defining aspect of his identity as being British. He's always referred to as "British secret agent James Bond" in press materials, reviews, even scholarly write-ups. For the "white Shaft" argument to work then Bond would also have to have always been referred to and defined as "white secret agent James Bond". Likewise, Shaft is defined by his race, not his nationality. His is the "black private dick" (who is a sex machine to all the chicks!). Again, the "white Shaft" comparison would only work if he had always been referred to as "American private dick John Shaft".
Now, at the time of Fleming's books a black, British Bond would have changed the character, the way he interacts with others, and how he could perform his job in 1950s England - and the world. But in the England and the world of 2013 it isn't an issue. I have no problem with a black Bond as long as he's British and it's a fantastic actor who can bring a lot to the role.
I mean really, modern audiences wouldn't want to see Fleming's racist, homophobic Bond. The Bond of the books thinks that homosexuality was caused by giving women the right to vote (I wonder what Oscar Wilde would say about that)! While I agree that there is much that is good in Fleming's books a slavish devotion to them, the plots, and the characters isn't needed for a good modern Bond film and in fact would turn many of the modern audience - even many of us here - off. Look at it this way - think of your favourite Bond film and ask yourself - do they mention in that film that Bond's mother was Swiss? Would it have made the film better if they had?
Thanks @Ludovico- mate, that is a brilliant idea. Idris Elba as a Bond villain!!! I really like the sound of that and think about it- 23 movies, 1 black villain (the brilliant Yaphet Koto as Kananga in LALD) and even then it was controversial- producers were concerned about offending the black community. I really hate the PC stuff.... It's the 21st Century!! LoL! It's not nearly as bad in the UK but the States is a Country that still has problems when it comes to race. Look at the grief Quentin Tarantino is going thru with DJANGO Unchained?? Idiots like Spike Lee (who's movies I love and I had the utmost respect for until he made stupid and unhelpful comments about TARANTINO's movies).
It's high time we had a black Bond villain!
Thanks for your thoughts @Ludovico
*Still afraid it my be a bit late for him unfortunately, with Craig still doing 2 (or more) movies
Yeah nice pic @Master_Dahark. He is actually only 40. He turns 41 in Sept
@Ludovico Are the Bond actors not dramatically different? I don't think any of them really look alike.
@Master_Dahark Exactly how I feel. They shouldn't do it for the sake of it but if the best actor out of the contenders happens to be black then why not?
@Theblack007 I haven't read all the books either, but from what I've read (and from what I've been told on here), it does seem like the Scottish/Swiss part of Bonds character was put in after Connery got the part.
I don't think Bonds backstory has been explored much in the films anyway apart from in Skyfall. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think his Scottishness and Swissness was ever mentioned before then so they could easily just not mention it if they got a black actor. The Bond films aren't exactly great for continuity anyway.
@thelordflashheart Thanks, and you do make a great point there. When people think James Bond, they think suave, British secret agent, they don't think white secret agent. His race doesn't define him like it does Shaft.
Agreed. Just an example... You remember the Justice League cartoon? They've had made a Black Green Lantern. From what i knew up, he was a white man. No one ever complained about that.
Perhaps another OO agent could be introduced to work with Bond for one small mission- not to create a spinoff or anything, but to test audience reactions
@thelordflasheart - more valid points made there mate! Nice one! I think the Bond movies (probably up until CR) have made a conscious effort NOT to dwell on Bond's past/family history. Obviously in OHMSS made references to the Bond family ancestry (the family motto and coat of arms) and the clumsy "shoe-in" referencing Bond's previous missions (Lazenby emptying his desk after his "resignation" and finding Honey's knife and Grant's watch). Even in the Moore era (visiting Tracey's grave in FYEO and Triple X mentioning Tracey's death in TSWLM)- but other than that, nothing significant about his family roots. That's what I liked about Skyfall- it made the audience (particularly the ones that are not as familiar with the Charecter) see more depth to Bond which I think Craig did very well in CR and SF.... QoS was a much more 1 dimensional movie which probably contributed to it not being as well received as Craig's other 2 movies.
They are different, but not to the extend that Leiters were. All were tall, athletic men who were either British or could pass as British. And they looked at least somewhat like the novel's Bond was. Obviously, you could reply that there are now plenty of talented British black actors who are tall and athletic. What I meant is that the differences between the actors who played Leiter were much more important than the differences between the Bond actors. You had Leiters about Bond's age, tall and athletic, you had much older Leiters, etc. Even David Hedison played two very different Leiters in relationship with Bond, one much older than the other. I doubt many people outside the Bond fans community recognised them as one and the same character before Jeffrey Wright.
My only problem with Naomie Harris as Moneypenny is that she is way too sexy for the role. I imagined Moneypenny pretty but in a plain. The way she was written as a former field agent (or station agent) I am not too keen on either, although they did play it well in the movie.
LoL! No @Jarrod - you are 100% right my friend, I don't read comic books although I do like comic book movies. Thanks tho mate!
^One day I'd love to see Leiter with his hook hand, and as a detective rather than as a CIA agent like in the DAF book[/quote]
Totally agree!
I too am also black of Nigerian heritage. My mother was born in Birmingham but her parents are Nigerian and my father was born in Nigeria but came to London when he was 18. My parents named me James after Bond himself, my brother is starting 6th form at Etonian this year and my own daughter shares the same birthday as Pierce Brosnan. Bond is a big deal in my family, my father won't shut the he'll up about how great Thunderball is and my mother worships Connery. I can only imagine the shockwave of a black Bond would send through my family alone.
Irrespective of all that I just don't see the need for such a change. Characters like MP and Felix aren't big draw characters that are of any real significance. You can cast any 30 something year old woman to sit outside M's office and flirt with Bond; that's the long and short of it. As for Felix, as has been the case in the past, just make sure a yank is cast in the role that can convey a buddy-type relationship dynamic with Bond. That is all. Race doesn't even come into it for such supporting characters. Bond, however, is not a supporting character and irrespective if times changing and the cultural landscape changing in English society one thing that does not need to change IMO is James Bond's skin colour. Bond is a white man. End of story.
Thanks @doubleoego - I think you're misunderstanding Harris's quote mate. All she's saying is that Elba met with Broccoli (that could well have been even before Daniel Craig was cast). She's not even saying that there's a possibility that Elba could be cast. All she's saying is that there is a possibility there may be a black 007 in the future and if they DO consider a black actor to play Bond, then she thinks Elba would be the perfect choice.
However- as I've mentioned, I agree with you @doubleoego, Bond should not be played by a black actor.
Thanks though @doubleoego
Bond's roots is traditionally British from a bygone era. Borderline alcoholic, still thinks the British Empire reigns supreme, sexist, etc. This part of the character has never changed, regardless of who is playing Bond. I'm all for sideline characters changing their ethnic backgrounds to modernise the franchise, but the minute EON decide to modernise the franchise with a black Bond, then they will have no more business referring to the Fleming character anymore. It would be like a black Robin Hood or a black Sherlock Holmes.
Yes, a black actor may look cool, may look suave, and may look great in action sequences, but it will no longer be Fleming's Bond.
Right now, we have an actor who is probably closest to Fleming's creation since Dalton, (and only really Dalton), despite the blonde short hair, so this argument that the franchise has evolved far away from Fleming's original creation is total BS.
Bond is a British white guy, with one foot stuck in the past. SF celebrated this fact. Take that away, and it will no longer be connected to Fleming's original character.
And I for one would certainly boycott the franchise if this ever happened!!!!