Die Another Day vs Quantum of Solace

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  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,189
    So now we've gone from no respect to outright love! So fickle.

    No. I never said I had no respect, you misunderstood me.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    I feel that Moores Bond did never really " touch " me. I just can't exept for in his first two take him serious as a secret agent. He feels too much like an british gentleman then a agent which is physically on top and dangerous. All the other Bonds can convince me that, even Lazenby.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    MrBond wrote:
    I feel that Moores Bond did never really " touch " me. I just can't exept for in his first two take him serious as a secret agent. He feels too much like an british gentleman then a agent which is physically on top and dangerous. All the other Bonds can convince me that, even Lazenby.
    In Roger's defense (yes, this is happening), espionage of the Cold War was very much a gentleman's game, so Roger was good at playing that part, even out of the era of Cold War espionage.
  • Posts: 117
    My humble opinion: I hate DUD. Hate it. Worst film I've ever seen - worse, even, than Herbie Rides Again. I like QOS a lot. There, that's my two pennorth.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Gaz1961 wrote:
    My humble opinion: I hate DUD. Hate it. Worst film I've ever seen - worse, even, than Herbie Rides Again. I like QOS a lot. There, that's my two pennorth.

    Batman and Robin edges them out for me. That film was not only a bad Batman film, but a plain horrible film in general. The worst thing is that as a kid I loved to see Batman save the day and never questioned the characters, dialogue, or plot, and as I got older I finally saw what the film was: absolute tripe-topping spit covered sod dirt. I felt violated and betrayed by my love of Batman and felt soiled as a cinephile.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    I always get stunned when i see someone really hates a actor or a film in the franchise.
    Sure, everyone has it's own opinions, but i can never imagine how it feels to active hate on something, not just in the Bond world.

    My humble opinion is that every film and actor did contribute on some part to the franchise, and all of them are good in their own way. Even if it's sometimes hard to find ( AVTAK ).
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    MrBond wrote:
    I always get stunned when i see someone really hates a actor or a film in the franchise.
    Sure, everyone has it's own opinions, but i can never imagine how it feels to active hate on something, not just in the Bond world.

    My humble opinion is that every film and actor did contribute on some part to the franchise, and all of them are good in their own way. Even if it's sometimes hard to find ( AVTAK ).

    Like I have said countless times before, when a film or actor makes me feel physical pains or ruins an ace character, any sympathy or love from me is gone, and never coming back.
  • Posts: 12,837
    In Roger's defense (yes, this is happening)

    :O Brady defending Roger Moore??? Never thought I'd see the day ;)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    In Roger's defense (yes, this is happening)

    :O Brady defending Roger Moore??? Never thought I'd see the day ;)
    I may not like the performance, but I respect all the fans it brought in and he played the gentleman well as he does in all his films, though when Roger is playing a gentleman in a role he isn't really acting. A nice chap outside of the series as well, for an he does in UNICEF and joining in Bond related events. How can't I respect that?? :)
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    MrBond wrote:
    I always get stunned when i see someone really hates a actor or a film in the franchise.
    Sure, everyone has it's own opinions, but i can never imagine how it feels to active hate on something, not just in the Bond world.

    My humble opinion is that every film and actor did contribute on some part to the franchise, and all of them are good in their own way. Even if it's sometimes hard to find ( AVTAK ).

    Like I have said countless times before, when a film or actor makes me feel physical pains or ruins an ace character, any sympathy or love from me is gone, and never coming back.

    Yes, i guess that is true. But i'm sure you always can find something positive in that actor or film that makes it worth to rethink the opinion?
    I have tried to watch trough some movies that i really did hate, but after some re -thinking it can be okay.
  • Posts: 4,762
    Neither are that bad, I don't understand the ridicule each of them receive. While Die Another Day has its cheese-infested moments like the surfing CGI scene or the dialogue with Jinx or Zao, there are some really classy moments. Such include the PTS and post-main titles scenes in North Korea, the search for Zao in Cuba, the sword fight in Blades, and the car chase in Iceland. I even somewhat enjoy the ending fight between Bond and Graves to an extent. The locations are varied, exotic, and picture-esque, and the action is explosively entertaining, the only serious flaws are the characters and the dialogue, and the over-use of CGI. As for Quantum of Solace, it reminds me a lot of the early Connery days, in Craig's portrayal and the somewhat low-key plot, so I'm somewhat puzzled by the criticism it receives, for me it's really great! If I were putting this to the test, QoS would win over DAD, but it's not because I hate the latter.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,189
    The thing that really lets DAD down for me is how cheap it often looks.

    True there's a few nice shots of Cuba/Cadiz but a lot of it just looks so fake.

    Even the moment where he walks into the hotel (not a bad scene) is undermined a bit because of the backdrop of the outside. Shame because the interior set looks really nice.

    Things just get worse when they get to Iceland.

    QoS has A LOT of problems but they do at least try to actually go to locations rather than film them on a set.

    There...I'm sticking up for QoS :p
  • Posts: 1,310
    It comes down to this for me: I was more embarrassed to be a Bond fan after DAD than after QOS. Quantum of Solace was just a big pile of mediocrity that really is neither here nor there for me (surprising, because CR is my #1 Bond film). The movie just falls flat; it isn't fun, annoying editing, instantly forgettable villain and Bond girl etc. Daniel Craig gives a great performance as Bond, but the script makes the James Bond character to be some well dressed brute. I know Craig plays the role a little rougher, but I think the script took it a tad too far in QOS.

    DAD on the other hand is downright cringeworthy at times. I will admit that the first half of the film is (generally) good, and I really dig the pre-titles and the sword fight. But once Jinx becomes a larger player and Iceland kicks in, DAD is unsalvageable apart from the neat-o gadget car battle in the ice palace. The script literally becomes a collection of cliched lines and one liners...and what I think are supposed to be one liners. ("Global warming....is a terrible thing." ...whaaaa?) While QOS is rather bland, DAD just gets plain bad.
  • Both are the worst films in the series

    I enjoy DAD more though because for all it's many faults, it's escapism and fun and feels (just) like a Bond movie. Daniel Craig, as Sir Roger Moore said, just feels like an advert. Craig broods far too much. Very weak villains.

    The only thing that possibly swings it is Gemma Arteton...but no, I can't forgive Dench's ego being given more room to strangle the series
  • Both are very underrated. But I'm going with Die Another Day. Even though Neil Purvis & Robert Wade did a very lazy job with writing the script, I understood what 007 was doing. Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the hell out of Quantum of Solace. Solid Bond film. But at the end of Casino Royale, 007 says- "Why should I need more time. The jobs done...the bitch is dead!" So why would 007 go though all that trouble in Quantum of Solace to avenge Vesper's death?
  • Didn't someone (@Beast I think it was) start something like this, some time back, about pairing two Bond movies together and choosing which was the best one, or is this just a one off ?

    In any event, I have no love lost for either release. I'd rather look directly into the sun than watch either of these, but if I had to pick, I'd go for QOS as the better release, or something I would want to watch, over the other. But there really isn't much to choose between these two disasters
  • Posts: 135
    QoS is easily the better film. Even though QoS is the weakest Craig film, GE is the only Brosnan film that can top it imo. (the other 3 all fall short, especially DAD).
  • Is this even a serious question? DAD is an absolute crock of a film on any level, with horrible music, completely wreckhed second half, the worst Bond girl of the fra
    QoS actually has depth, and shows Bond in a very vulnerable emotional state. The editing may not be to everyone's liking, but I have gotten used to it and see it as just another facet of what QoS brings new to the franchise. The film is also very arty, with beautiful cinematography abounding. The action was great and exciting, and a Bond girl that Bond didn't sex up. Felix is present, and very good as he deals with the ignorance of Beam. They are so many great moments across this franchise, and QoS has two in the list. Bond meeting Greene and his boys coming down the stairs at the Bregenz Opera House, and the meeting between Bond and Yusef. QoS may not be CR, but that doesn't make it any less of a film and IS still are very good film. DAD, on the other hand, is not a good film on any standard, and the one I would choose to erase from the franchise if given the chance. I would rather watch a Roger Moore Bond marathon than see DAD another damn time. My mind cannot bear it... It is my belief that QoS will become more popular in the coming years. I used to despise it too, but after I took my bias for CR out of the equation, and stopped comparing the two, QoS itself stands as a good Bond film.

    Well said. You mentioned the depth, artfulness, 2nd time better viewmanship, both Tosca andYusef, Camille' difference of being a unique Bond girl. Also I will add the airplane sequence and David Arnold's great score complete with the Vesper theme variations. Marc Forster made sure that David Arnold compose a carefully crafted score.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 553
    I strongly prefer Quantum. I hated it when I first saw it, but it has improved each time I see it. Die Another Day started with my hating it, and has only got worse if anything. For those who hate both, I would just point out that Die Another Day has no excuse: it had a three year gap from the previous film, an experienced Bond, no noted problems in production - they made the film they intended to make..that was deliberate!

    By contrast Quantum had a writers' strike, a rushed production schedule, and it still managed to do something different and interesting.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I strongly prefer Quantum. I hated it when I first saw it, but it has improved each time I see it. Die Another Day started with my hating it, and has only got worse if anything. For those who hate both, I would just point out that Die Another Day has no excuse: it had a three year gap from the previous film, an experienced Bond, no noted problems in production - they made the film they intended to make..that was deliberate!

    By contrast Quantum had a writers' strike, a rushed production schedule, and it still managed to do something different and interesting.

    Awesome point. And even with all that, QoS turned out this well: Must be a miracle. I have seen so many alternate shots on set for scenes that were either scrapped or never fully filmed, and you can tell that the film could have gone any number of ways. I can't believe we got a final product this good out of it. Movie magic at its finest.
  • Well said. Imagine how good it will be if Forster gets invited back after Mendes, since Bond production has more leverage with the studio and has learned from past mistakes for the last 10 yrs.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Well said. Imagine how good it will be if Forster gets invited back after Mendes, since Bond production has more leverage with the studio and has learned from past mistakes for the last 10 yrs.

    Hahaha. He won't be getting asked back, I can guarantee that.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 32
    I'm not a fan of either film, but watching them back to back, I'd pick DIE ANOTHER DAY over QUANTUM OF SOLACE. Why?

    DIE ANOTHER DAY has a strong first half, Bond getting tortured, growing a beard? Great stuff. I like the Col. Moon character at the beginning (and by that I mean the Korean actor). I loved seeing him use his Anger Management therapist as a punching bag. I liked the trip to Cuba and seeing Bond in a Ford armed with an old revolver. I loved Halle Berry's introduction (I don't give a crap if her character sucks, she's F***ing hot coming out of that ocean!) I also liked the sword fight (Even if it was pointless and was semi-ruined by Madonna).

    But I agree about the second half. It quickly changes into a parody of itself. I did like seeing John Cleese again as Q, John Cleese is always great. I didn't even mind the invisible car. But Toby Stephens, the space laser, the whole gene-manipulation plot, the kite-surfing, it just got too much. It wasn't the worst film I ever saw, but I don't need to see it again.

    QUANTUM OF SOLACE: I'm sorry, I don't know what the hell this film is about. At least I knew what DIE ANOTHER DAY was about. QUANTUM is so convoluted, the story is almost impossible to follow, in part thanks to the bi-polar editing and cinematography. Daniel Craig gives the most unlikeable performance in a Bond movie. Even Timothy Dalton for his dark performance in LICENSE made you root for him. In QUANTUM, I didn't care what happened to these people, or even if Bond lived or died. I just wanted the film to be over.

    Again, I have to stress the editing in this film, it's so impossible to follow what's going on. It's like CUT-CUT-CUT-CUT-CUT-CUT-CUT-CUT-CUT-CUT-CUT-CUT-CUT-CUT... ENOUGH ALREADY! Show me what's happening! Remember that great shot from the beginning of SPY WHO LOVED ME? One shot following Bond off the mountain until he opened the Union Jack parachute. Even with DIE ANOTHER DAY's CGI Kite-surfing, I can see what's going on. Okay, Bond's surfing on the ice-caps. Fine (It's kinda stupid, but whatever, at least I can SEE what's going on).

    One more tidpit here. When I was rewatching these films, I tried to remember specific scenes about each one. For DIE ANOTHER DAY (which I hadn't seen since 2002), I remembered the torture scene, the sword-fight, Halle Berry, the ice-house, the space-laser, the kite-surfing, the invisible car, the plane scene, Moneypenny at the end, I remembered a lot from that film. What did I remember from QUANTUM (Which I only saw four years ago?) Almost nothing, except the scene where Bond and Emo-girl were in the burning building (Best scene in the film) and the other Bond girl's name "Strawberry Fields." It's an unmemorable movie.

    Writers' strike, rushed production, I don't care. A bad movie is a bad movie.
  • U know, when the producers and MF were doing a Q& A with us they said that the latter didn't want to come back and he looks at Barbara and threw the accusation right back at her. I read how MF had to argue certain creative ideas to stay in the movie's final cut which is a far cry from having Vesper's actress return and a Mr White ending.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited January 2013 Posts: 14,680
    Both are very underrated. But I'm going with Die Another Day. Even though Neil Purvis & Robert Wade did a very lazy job with writing the script, I understood what 007 was doing. Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the hell out of Quantum of Solace. Solid Bond film. But at the end of Casino Royale, 007 says- "Why should I need more time. The jobs done...the bitch is dead!" So why would 007 go though all that trouble in Quantum of Solace to avenge Vesper's death?
    Sometimes when we speak through anger and heartbreak, we say things we don't really mean.

    RE: Die Another Day vs Quantum of Solace

    Which one do I vote for? I find DAD more entertaining than QoS because of the action and escapism, however, QoS has depth and realism. Being a fan who enjoys both the fantastic/OTT and the realistic/gritty films equally, I find this a rather hard decision to make. After some uncertainty:

    QoS > DAD.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    QoS for me, definitely.
  • Posts: 122
    Both BAD for different reasons QOS just does not quite cut it as a bond film, DAD is Bond gone way over the top so it would be hard to pick one from the other but i think why these two stand out is they both could of been brilliant DAD started so well and not until near the end that the film went south. As for QOS it had all the ingredients but they seem not to of been put together properly and i put that down to bad direction and both of them was made just to pull the numbers threw the cinema door and not with the audience in mind and that's where they should focus future films like the did in skyfall and many others
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Both are very underrated. But I'm going with Die Another Day. Even though Neil Purvis & Robert Wade did a very lazy job with writing the script, I understood what 007 was doing. Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the hell out of Quantum of Solace. Solid Bond film. But at the end of Casino Royale, 007 says- "Why should I need more time. The jobs done...the bitch is dead!" So why would 007 go though all that trouble in Quantum of Solace to avenge Vesper's death?

    Ah, duh. The entire film is about Bond trying to deny to himself how much Vesper meant to him. He gave up his guard, got hurt, and tries to mask the pain. When he quickly pockets her photo in the Sienna house, when he can't even utter the drink he is having on the plane with Mathis (because it would mean he would have to say "Vesper", how he references her all over the place until we get to his confrontation with Yusef are all examples of his denial and hurt over her. The film is all a process of Bond realizing and appreciating all Vesper meant to him and how special she was, and with the toss of her love knot into the snow Bond shows that he is finally ready to accept that and move on.
  • AliAli
    Posts: 319
    Both films feature copious Aston action. This makes them fine for me. Prefer QoS to DAD, purely because the ice hotel, Jinx and Graves were just rubbish. The only part in QoS I don't like is the sink hole parachuting. Far too convenient and also some poor CGI.
  • I would have to say D.A.D for me, Q.O.S felt unfinished and rushed and the jerky camera work a major distraction. The climax for me just felt really flat and the less said about the title song, the better. D.A.D had the potential to be really good and the first part of the film was great fun and a departure from the previous entry. Then as soon as we get beyond Cuba, something goes horribly wrong. Regardless of the film turning into a farce. For the most part it delivers what it sets out to do, poorly I might add, but it still delivers.
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