Skyfall: Billion Dollar Bond

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Comments

  • edited January 2013 Posts: 12,837
    Did we beat that rich, spoilt, bat loving cave dwelling wierdo yet?
    And Gustav Graves, please realize it's because you never apologize for some of your comments ("newcomer", ah !), that I more and more let you have the final word because it seems so important to you. But if you feel you impress me as a box office expert, well, sorry but it's a big NO. You weren't even able to understand the box office of your own country :)

    What I don't like about you is the fact that even after all this, even when some respect for you kicks in, you still get agitated and/or irritated by me. That's not necessary and that problem is entirely yours.

    Ooohh it's like being at school. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT (my moneys on the frenchman :P )
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 2,015
    And @Creasy47 and @JWESTBROOK, you are both classic gents and don't have the time for @mepal1's stubborn demeanor.

    Well, no one seriously dares to list "top inflation adjusted worldwide gross movies" for a reason though ! The list would change dramatically depending on the currency you choose, and well, for WW gross, there is no "currency"... For SF, the result look like its box office will be made very roughly of 30% US$, 25% Euros, 20% Pounds, around 10% Yuan, etc... SF may well be last Bond movie with US$ having the largest part as a matter of fact (if the $ long term trend continues, which is unpredictable actually).

    Then between 1965 and 2012, inflation for $ means you do x7. But for 'Euros' (I choose Franc for the reference, it's even more complex), you do x9. And for Pounds you do x15... Computation : Impossible.

    About Gustav_Graves, an anecdote for the readers here : I never reported when he posted several times in a row on multiple occasions (he even posted 5 times in a row once). I never reported anyone, in fact.. When I posted twice in a row, "someone" reported me to the moderators instantly, and "someone" even posted a smiley clapping when the moderators acted :) I don't feel like the one having a problem really :)

    Some people on the other hand badly wants SF to "beat" TB according to some scientifical proof (and ironically, everyone forget about BoxOfficeMojo's method then, while it is THE site here for everything else about box office ;) ).

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    It's just this: tons more articles (including BOM, which I've used for years, AND this site) that now state SF is the number one grossing James Bond flick, or a few users on here and a couple of miscellaneous sites of theirs that I've never heard of.

    You all laugh and flick your collars up because, while you sit there talking about those of us who (for some reason) "badly" want SF to beat TB, you're in the opposite boat: you refuse to believe that SF beat TB.

    I never once said that I wanted SF to "badly" beat anything, either, so you can go ahead and just drop that.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 12,837
    About Gustav_Graves, an anecdote for the readers here : I never reported when he posted several times in a row on multiple occasions (he even posted 5 times in a row once). I never reported anyone, in fact.. When I posted twice in a row, "someone" reported me to the moderators instantly, and "someone" even posted a smiley clapping when the moderators acted :) I don't feel like the one having a problem really :)

    Wow this really is like school. Gustav grassed you up to the teachers so now it's all kicking off.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 229
    Why do some people here want Skyfall to beat Thunderball ?
    Why don't some people here want Skyfall to beat Thunderball ?

    Both are Bond movies, Skyfall is a huge success as well as Thunderball ajusted inflation or not. So I'm happy to see a Bond film succeed.

  • Wow, 50 years on...the 23rd film...and the series still has such legs that SF is now the #1 Bond film of all time. Wow.

    When I was a kid I NEVER could have imagined this. What a fantastic time to be a Bond fan.
  • Posts: 229
    Wow, 50 years on...the 23rd film...and the series still has such legs that SF is now the #1 Bond film of all time. Wow.

    When I was a kid I NEVER could have imagined this. What a fantastic time to be a Bond fan.
    Agree with you. Unfortunately some people aren't never satisfied, they always find a way to complain or diminish the success of their favourite movie/hero.

  • 001001
    Posts: 1,575
    Looks like skyfall has made at least a $800 million profit guessing that the film cost about $200 million.

    Anyone know how much of the profit Eon gets in percentage?
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 2,015
    Creasy47 wrote:
    It's just this: tons more articles (including BOM, which I've used for years, AND this site) that now state SF is the number one grossing James Bond flick, or a few users on here and a couple of miscellaneous sites of theirs that I've never heard of.

    Well, all those who thinks this is meaningless won't make articles to say the core of the article is meaningless !

    And this site and many many others have announced one week ago that SF in China was a failure, do you believe them ? :)
    Creasy47 wrote:
    you refuse to believe that SF beat TB.

    Hint : I never claimed and I'll never claim TB is the #1 Bond movie either (unless I feel like doing some provocation given the atmosphere here). Quite a shock, possibly ;)

    I wrote that Bondmania was not here again though, but it happened in 1965 mostly outside the box office business actually... I also "diminished" the success of GF and TB to the eye of mepal1, I think, by reminding GF was never #1 weekly in the US, and TB only one week... I know it's easy to try to dismiss me as an elder people (as once written on the front page of this site !) who wish to claim "I lived through the real success of Bond in 1965", but I'm not old enough sorry ! Btw my name here comes from a Roger Moore 007, one of the "weakest", I'm not a purist !

    All my explanations why ranking SF #1 is not trivial are basically met only with "The Internet disagrees with you" though, nothing on the explanations themselves.
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I never once said that I wanted SF to "badly" beat anything, either, so you can go ahead and just drop that.

    First, moderators have been warned of my messages solely on that topic... I could go and copy/paste 5 times in a row "SF is #1 yoohoo !" I feel I'd have never been flagged :) SF being #1 is clearly something important to some persons.

    I've written several times SF was a mega success ("like TF and GB"), how can makes me sound like someone trying to diminish the success ? That's only if some think it is very important to say "MORE THAN" TF and GB !

    Here I was even one the very first to give details why TDKR would be beaten in most countries outside the US ! (Same year release and market-to-market are far less meaningless, IMO, except for China, a market that changes significantly every month). I was also the first to say the reports of failure in China were very lousy reportings (and that was AFTER the "SF does better than TB" arguments had started here !)

    How do you analyze the fact that no one dares to make rankings of "worlwide gross adjusted for inflation", despite all the tons of box office webpages you can access ?

    They dare to do "adjusted domestic grosses", or "ticket adjusted domestic grosses " (the BOM method), or "worldwide gross", but "adjusted worldwide gross" ? No. Why Bond could be the only movies that could be ranked this way ?

    And when BoxOfficeMojo writes SF is #1 of the Bond, they're talking unadjusted. That $1.04bn figure for TB is nowhere to be found on BOM, I think. It's just someone at the AFP putting the WW figure of TB 1965 in some American inflation calculator.

    FYI, if you use the pounds instead of the dollar as the choice of currency, the TB figure rises up about 10/15% (and it's meaningless too). Euro (a currency that is as important as US$ for SF) ? It didn't exist in 1965, no real computation available, a good hint it would be really meaningless... And if you extend the BOM method to the worlwide figure, it's even significantly larger (and still meaningless). And if you do the computation on similar markets (the less meaningless method I think, but still meaningless), then SF looses about 200/250M$...

    PS : I feel I'll quote this thread in 4 years, when possibly 5 movies per year crush today's
    SF gross, even "adjusted by the AFP". Will this mean SF was not successful in the end (some box office ranking hysterics are calling The Hobbit a failure, you know...) ? No of course and I think then you'll start to hear what I say when you'll need something to answer to those who will say in a few years SF is now outside the top #20 etc, that Bond is the past etc... (Internet loves backlash :) )

    PPS : Believe it or not, in "AFP-Relaxnews", the ones who created this $1.04bn figure everyone is quoting for weeks, the F means France :) [This is Agence France Presse]

    PPPS : For those who were here 6 years ago, do you remember all the hysteric fuss about Casino Royale being beat by Happy Feet (yes, digging up my past to answer Gustav_Graves's silly "newcomer" comment woke up many memories) ? Who remembers now that epic thread ? Who cares now about Happy Feet ?
  • Posts: 80
    I cannot really understand the back and forth proving and disproving of figures since no one can give definitive proof or evidence that they are right. The one thing we can say is that Skyfall has generated over a billion in real-time whether we adjust the figures for inflation or not. So why the angst, when we should be celebrating a franchise that is still going strong after 50 years, is putting bums on seats and filling cinemas globally despite the plethora of competition and other forms of recreational activities out there.

    Even if it sticks in some people’s craw, can’t we all just acknowledge and agree for once that this is a great achievement.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 2,015
    hisqos wrote:
    Even if it sticks in some people’s craw, can’t we all just acknowledge and agree for once that this is a great achievement.
    It's not enough for some, they want to be #1 of something :)

    Ah, how many people were here when CR in US was not #1 in its release because of Happy Feet ? You feel this thread is epic and heated ? At that time, we had craignotbond mentally ill members ("death threats", yes !) making tons of it...
  • Posts: 421
    I don't particularly care about the stats, records, money, audiences, screenings etc.

    That's not to say that when they do have amazing figures, that I'm not impressed - or when they're underwhelming that I'm disappointed. It's just a natural reaction, but I KNOW, that we've got a good film. Any shortcomings are just bad judgement on others' behalf!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Suivez_ce_parachute, I, too, couldn't possibly care less about your statistics, mathematical equations, or records. SF has absolutely blown past my expectations, and that's good enough for me. You all can dish out these foolish accusations amongst one another now; one grows tired of being accused of things he just isn't.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 2,015
    Creasy47 wrote:
    You all can dish out these foolish accusations amongst one another now;
    I stand by everything I say. Moderators can confirm I've been reported as a spammer by the "SF #1 crowd" while some of them who posted up to 5 times in a row were not by the "others" (call that maturity !).

    I think you're in denial of the irrational importance some carry to the fact that "SF beat TB" as you've written on several occasions (while claiming not to bother at all about it - and obviously if you've been following BoxOfficeMojo for years as you claimed the post before, that's not for the statistics you claim you don't care about, but for the nice HD photos there I suppose :) ).

  • Posts: 421
    Hé... peut-on arrêter? Les disputes deviennent énervant maintenant!
    (Hey... can we stop? The arguments are becoming annoying now!)

    All of you, in fact. Keep the playground fighting to private messages 8-|
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Suivez_ce_parachute, I just don't see how anyone could become bitter that SF beat TB or TB beat SF: who cares?!?! It's all James Bond, and like I've also stated numerous times, SF has crossed the $1 billion line, and that's more than enough for me in the 50th Anniversary.

    I'm also not sure why you keep bringing up being flagged or 'spammy': not once have I flagged you for anything. Sure, you're irritating me because you keep logging me into a group I'm not, but I still have yet to flag you. Take up your anger with those who have, not me.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 2,015
    AgentJM7 wrote:
    Hé... peut-on arrêter? Les disputes deviennent énervant maintenant!
    (Hey... can we stop? The arguments are becoming annoying now!)

    Hey, I'm not the one saying I don't care about the facts :)

    So, more facts about China :

    In one week, that's simply almost the whole amount of French viewers who went to see Skyfall there (France about 7M viewers total, China about 6.2M in one week !)

    And yet, with the $-$ pair of glass, one would rather say that France has brought 60M$ to Skyfall gross total, while China has brought "only" 35M$ in its first week. Quite telling about the difficulty to compare different countries (and not even talking about different times) eh ? China has 20 times more citizens than France, 4 times the US, so you see the potential once they start having theaters a bit more everywhere than now, and ticket prices rise to the rest of the world's standards...

    More data : Skyfall has about 50% of the viewers of the week in China (which, IMO, makes the 5.500+ figures (about half the screen) more likely than the 8.800+ although it's really hard to be sure, frankly).
  • Posts: 80
    Which doens't make your figures anymore relevant than Bomojo. So why are we flogging a dead horse to prove facts presented don't amount to much in the end.
  • hisqos wrote:
    Which doens't make your figures anymore relevant than Bomojo. So why are we flogging a dead horse to prove facts presented don't amount to much in the end.
    From what I could read here, I'm afraid that when BoxOfficeMojo report for instance that TDKR has $1,081,041,287 WW, some people think it's very accurate (ie : that if they went to see it once more, it would be $1,081,041,297). I think I've given enough elements to show that all these figures should be taken with a 5/10% pinch of salt to be reasonable.

    I think I have proven that BOM was very inaccurate with China box office in particular, and I've given better source (PS : BOM WAS rather good in the past, it's Amazon who killed it).

    This uncertainty makes all this ranking competition quite ridiculous... I can find examples of studios fudging box office #1 week number for PR reasons, also. Etc...



  • The primary SF B.O. for China was made by DVD pirates....
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 2,015
    The "funny" thing is that on legal sites, the note of SF is 7.1
    507838skyfall.png
    while on one of the most popular pirate sites (where DVD quality was available around the 3rd of January...), it's 7.6 (far, far, far less voters though). The "haters" are there though, and their online activity is probably why so many "experts" reported the word of mouth was bad.
    574423pirat.png
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    That is very interesting, actually. Thanks for digging this up @Suivez_ce_parachute.
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    Impressing how Skyfall hit the billion mark. Many people says that it just hit it because it's the 50th anniversary.
  • Posts: 277
    No one factor can lead to a movie hitting a billion i can name a dozen reason why Skyfall hit a billion.
  • Posts: 11,119
    htall90 wrote:
    No one factor can lead to a movie hitting a billion i can name a dozen reason why Skyfall hit a billion.

    Indeed. Been saying that for quite some time already. It's a big, shaken-not-stirred cocktail of reasons why 'Skyfall' will be hittint $1.1 Billion worldwide.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 1,098
    OK everyone lets get things straightened out here!

    I'll go through things here step by step.

    Right the argument over whether 'SF' had overtaken 'TB' as the highest grossing Bond film, started some weeks ago here.
    This apparently came about as a member here , stumbled across an inflation adjusted list, based on the US consumer index (i'll come back to this later).
    This list, for some misguided reason, was taken as gospel as the definitive Bond alltime list, and was published on the front page of MI6, quite sometime ago, with the headline 'whichever way you look at it 'SF' is the biggest Bond film of alltime' (or words to that effect).
    Having personally followed Bond BO for some decades, this came as a surprise as i knew there were alternative lists which didnt agree with this.
    When i posted the alternative information and links with reasons for this information, i was attacked by a small number 'people' here for making such posts.
    It saddened me that as Bond fans, some people here were not flexible in their approach to other peoples findings on the subject, and could only respond with sarcastic comments, and not with any facts of their own.
    This has not only happened to me, but to other members here who have information on the subject as well.
    The fact is there is no definitive list to Bond's alltime BO inflation adjusted, and i'll give the reasons.
    There have so far been 2 basic ways of determining inflation adjusted figures, one has been by using the consumer inflation index, or by using cinema ticket price inflation.
    Both are based on the US market..........unfortunately what applies to the US doesnt apply to countries elsewhere around the world, as inflation has varied greatly from country to country over the past 50 years, and the cinema ticket prices also varies.
    An example would be my own country the UK, where ticket prices have more than doubled in the past ten years or so, but this doesnt apply to every country.
    Its unfortunate, but due to the differing ways of counting inflation, this has led to a great deal of error margin, when calculating historical BO figure. In the case of 'TB' this can be as much as $300 mil, which is quite a margin.
    The only true way to compare films BO from different era's, is if either the admission figures were known for each country, or the inflation index of each country was worked out separately.
    So, where does this leave us..............well, at the end of the day none of us knows what the true comparitive figures are, maybe the studios have more detailed records, but they sure as hell arn't going to divulge that info with the public for various reasons.
    Its possible someone could do thier own research into the subject, but it would be very costly and time consuming.
    Today, i contacted 'Boxofficemojo' and i asked them a few questions........one of them was did they have a worldwide adjusted alltiime list.... their answer as expected was , no, because it would be impossible to calculate.
    Secondly, i asked them if they kept admission records, again they said no.
    Other questions i asked were, why in their foreign section, they didnt have BO figures for Switzerland.........they answered, because they didnt have a reliable source.
    Finally, i asked why they had changed their BO gross for 'CR'.....thier reason was that they had been given a revised figure from the studio, upon 'SF's release...hence $599 mil, is now the official figure.
    I suppose another thing to consider about the BO run of 'SF' is that despite the numerous reports of when 'SF' has broken a BO record, we have never so far been told that the film has become the highest grossing Bond film, taking inflation into account....from any source, whether it be the trade papers such as 'Variety' or 'Hollywood Reporter', the BO sources, or even the studios and EON themselves.
    The reasons are obvious, either the film has not reached that benchmark, or more likely because no one actually knows!
    Therefore, until i read otherwise, the history books still state 'TB' as the highest grossing Bond film in history.
    But...even as we debate the subject, 'SF' is still doing stellar business in China, so who knows, maybe by the end of its run it could be the highest grossing Bond ever......but how will we ever know.
    To sum up.......some people reading this thread will think, for god sake what the hell does it matter, 'SF' has been a fantastic success, and we should rejoice in that...and hope the next film does even better, as it will surely guarantee we get to see many more Bond films in the future.
    My only beef here, is that some members want to create their own facts, and grossly misrepresent them for thier own end, and in doing so undermine other fair minded members who are only just trying to post thier findings on the subject!

    I hope that members here, take this post as a fair and just one to the subject in hand.

    Thanks :)
  • Posts: 11,119
    Creasy47 wrote:
    It's just this: tons more articles (including BOM, which I've used for years, AND this site) that now state SF is the number one grossing James Bond flick, or a few users on here and a couple of miscellaneous sites of theirs that I've never heard of.

    Well, all those who thinks this is meaningless won't make articles to say the core of the article is meaningless !

    And this site and many many others have announced one week ago that SF in China was a failure, do you believe them ? :)

    No, @Suivez_ce_parachute. Because I said myself on January 18th the following down below in this topic. And I say it again to you: In order to make a good prediction, you need to be more of a trendwatcher instead of a numbercruncher like you.

    People in here, myself included though, were already getting 'high' from the first Monday screening reviews in China. That alone is stupid, as cinemas in Europe and the USA on a Monday are rather 'dead' as well.

    Anyway, read down below what I said. By the way @Germanlady? I have respect for your opinions. I simply disagree on them sometimes :-).
    Germanlady wrote:
    I always said, don't expect too much from China. I see it in the 40 mill range.

    But i assume, they will have given them some sort of motivation to back up the plot.

    I at least expect an amount close to $100 Million. I can't seem to understand why for China the expectations are so low. It doesn't necessarily mean that whole families in China are watching the illegal DVD's of 'Skyfall' in favour of the theatrical release upcoming Monday.

    Just like in other countries, a cinema visit is still considered a nice night out, with our without family and friends. And especially the biggest cinema's in Beijing, Hong Kong and Shanghai are absolutely enormous, mostly brand-new and even way more comfortable then some cinemas in the west. Also IMAX is very popular there. So does anyone have some figures what percentage of cinemas will showing 'Skyfall' in IMAX?

    One last thing, 'Skyfall' has almost no competition until 'The Hobbit' will be released on February 21st. In between only 'Cloud Atlas' (January 31st) and 'Jack reacher' (February 16th) will premiere.

    And most importantly, 'Skyfall' will see a nice bump from the Chinese New Years holidays. It's celebrated on February 10th, but also the days, weekends before and after. It is as big as our Christmas/Thanksgiving holidays. Kids are usually off for almost the entire month of February including some days end of January depending on the regions in China. And then there are the official Bank Holidays which last from February 9th till February 15th.

    So a perfect moment to visit a James Bond film if you ask me. I expect at leastttt more than $90 Million and an amount of $120 Million looks like an even nicer prediction. 'Skyfall' will do something similar that 'Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol' did when it premiered, also close to the Chinese New Year's celebrations if I'm not mistaken..

    No, 'Skyfall' will most certainly beat 'The Dark Knight Rises' and it's exciting to see if 'The Hobbit' eventually will beat 'Skyfall' or not on the World Wide Box Office Chart of 2012 :-). I say $ 1.15 Billion ($1,150,000,000) is quite a reasonable prediction for 'Skyfall's final box office figures....
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    SF is massively, financially Successful. GF and TB created a phenomenon. Irrespective of BO.
  • Posts: 1,098
    RC7 wrote:
    SF is massively, financially Successful. GF and TB created a phenomenon. Irrespective of BO.

    Exactly!

  • 001001
    Posts: 1,575
    RC7 wrote:
    SF is massively, financially Successful. GF and TB created a phenomenon. Irrespective of BO.

    I'm sure everyone agrees with that.


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